Multiple parties are jockeying for position in the aftermath of France’s seismic snap election. The leftist New Popular Front (NPF) insists its ideas should be implemented.
France’s left wing New Popular Front (NPF) - now the largest group in parliament - has called for a prime minister who will implement its ideas including a new wealth tax and petrol price controls.
The leftist alliance secured the most seats in the recent French elections but fell short of the 289 needed for a majority in the National Assembly, France’s lower house of parliament.
President Emmanuel Macron’s Together bloc came in second and Marine Le Pen’s far-right National Rally (RN) party finished third.
France’s parties are now jockeying for position and it’s unclear exactly how things will shake out, but the NPF has insisted it will implement its radical set of ideas.
a new 90% tax on any annual income above €400,000
Lmao. Probably not gonna happen but based af
I think it’s a great target to aim for. That’s an unfathomable income to most people, so it should at least have popular support
It will not. People will vehemently defend the rich.
Some will, but there’s an ever growing movement against gross wealth inequality. When simply buying groceries becomes a struggle for more and more people, that’s usually a telltale sign that the working class is going to start getting angry at the insatiable greed of those at the top.
If there ever will be fight in line for bread, french will do french thing
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Taxes don’t work like that. It’s only the portion above a level that’s taxed at that level.
In the US you could absolutely fall into a new range where certain deductions no longer apply, so you could make that extra little bit of income, then lose out on deductions totaling more than your increased income.
It’s not as simple as the progressive tax brackets look at first glance.
That’s what the standard deduction is for unless you are talking about a very narrow range of only freelancers/business owners
There are other deductions that no longer come into play after a certain income. If I recall correctly, mortgage interest, child tax credits, and some medical deductions.
OK but owning a house and having children are both choices, so I’m not exactly sure I see what’s so unfair about not having those certain deductions. Medical is the only one I agree is legitimate here so fair point
Tax brackets don’t lower income from the bracket before them. If you had 123net/177gross, and got a raise to 200 gross, you would only pay 45% on that 23k difference between 177 and 300. Thus going to 137net/200 gross.
Progressive taxation so nothing lowers your net income. That scale seems quite sensible really, and you’d even have more than the 100k because again progressive taxation. And honestly 100k net is already an obscene amount of money for a single person.
Worked fine in America during it’s “great” days that all these Trump voters seem to yearn for
Funny how they want to ‘mAkE aMeRiCa GrEaT aGaIn’ but don’t want any of the policies that made America great, just the shitty racist ones that made life awful for non-white males. I’m just waiting for them to further limit it by land holding or wealth at some point… Really take us back to when we were ‘really great’
That was only on earned income and with a starting point so high that at some point only one person ever reached it.
That was before the explosion of jet travel. Now the rich fly around in their private jets to operate their businesses all over the world. They take advantage of the fact that governments can’t coordinate their taxes very well.
Love it. Wealthy in France is 200k, anyone who makes over 400k is uberwealthy
400k is a monthly salary of 33000€ You can live very comfortably from a tenth of that where i live in germany, which is a notoriously expensive city. So yeah even if you just barely go over the limit and have to live with a tenth of those 400k, you would still be completely fine.This is all ignoring already saved up wealth ofcourse.TLDR im dumb
It doesn’t even work like that: only the “extra” revenue above 400k would be subject to the 90% tax, everything below that would still be subject to standard tax rates
even if you just barely go over the limit and have to live with a tenth of those 400k
Progressive taxation doesn’t work like that, the 90% tax bracket in this case would only apply to the income someone earned over €400K. Everything they earn under that amount is taxed at much lower rates, the same rates as people who have lower income
The current max tax rate in france is 45% + 3% for the portion exceeding 250k. (4% for exceeding 500k)
So ignoring the 3%, at 400k you would be taxed at 45% leaving you with 220k?
And at 1M it would be those 220k€ + (remaining 600k€ @ 90% = 60k)
So a total of 280k€ after tax?
I dont earn anywhere near that much so i never bothered to understand how this stuff actually works.
The math is a bit more complicated since there are multiple tax brackets below 400k, but that’s the general idea yeah
Yes. That is the correct math.
Some tax codes have deductions and such, so the actual amount kept could be a little higher.
TLDR im dumb
You are a saint in my eyes.
The NFP proposal would make the top 10% French pay more tax and the rest 90% would pay same or less tax. They want to introduce more tax “slices” to make it adjust more progressively with higher income.
Maybe I’m just not used to the income needed in major cities in France, but that seems like pretty high tax rate for the income in major cities like Lyons or Paris. Can someone give me a little context? Does France do graduated brackets like the US? If that’s the case then I could see this being pretty fair.
They do. Someone with a salary of €400,000 would take home approximately €242,000 after income tax.
Up to €10,777: 0% tax rate From €10,778 to €27,478: 11% tax rate From €27,479 to €78,570: 30% tax rate From €78,571 to €168,994: 41% tax rate More than €168,994: 45% tax rateAccording to The EIU, the cost of living in Paris is similar to San Francisco.
That seems like quite a bit of one’s income, but on the flipside France has a lot more social services and such than we get here in the US, so I guess I have to consider that side of it.
Does France do graduated brackets like the US?
Is there any place that does taxes without brackets, just flat “pass this number and suddenly lose half of everything”? Does that even exist outside the imagination of Americans who have never understood or looked at taxes? Brackets should be the definition of income taxes, is it not? It’s not an economic tariff applied regardless the volume of merchandise passing a frontier.
Jesus dude calm down I am just asking what the basic structure of the French tax system looks like. I don’t live in France, there is not a whole lot of reason for me to know.
It’s still just a fraction of the top 1%. Even $400,000 in the US would put you in the top 1%, nobody needs more than this amount of money, ever.
Still good though, imo the win is that a big chunk of representatives are saying this is what the country wants.
I hope it gets done so they can fund social programs. But the rich will flee to Germany
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Even if they do implement such tax, I wonder how many ways there are for rich people to avoid paying those taxes. They tend to be very good at skirting around such things. They even pay people who are professionals in the field of tax-around-skirting.
Honestly, they should probably leave income alone and just double down on the wealth tax.
Wage-based taxation has always been an awkward way to target the rich.
I have very different feelings about someone from a poor background who went into massive debt to develop their skills and become a top earner vs. someone who inherited a fortune and doesn’t put any effort beyond checking their bank balance periodically.
Plus, there is the “won’t they just leave?” argument. Which is mostly FUD, but in the case where someone’s wealth is based on their skilled labor they do have a much easier time just leaving. If your wealth is from owning a portfolio of apartment buildings, good luck taking those with you.
Does no one here understand how incone taxes work? The 90% rate is on annual income over €400,000. Average annual income in France was €41,000.
I think the guy you’re responding to is more talking about the distinction between income and capital gains, with income making up far less of the wealthy’s worth than existing investments.
But yes, a lot of people also have no concept of how tax brackets work.
Right. Someone with a networth of many millions may only have a yearly income of $100k. Sometimes far less. Different tax systems can also have different definitions of income. Is inheritance income? Are growth stocks that you haven’t cashed in yet income? Are stock dividends income? You can answer yes or no to any of these, but however you answer, you can still structure the tax system around those answers to come to an equitable arrangement.
The end result is that basically no one will be subject to this tax bracket.
It is high enough that everyone at that level will mainly get their real income from stock/loan which aren’t salaries.
Having this tax bracket or not having it is, basically the same for the super wealthy. The real method to tax them is through capital tax, not income.
The moving part is very real for the ultra rich in Europe.
In Norway they transfer their assets to their kids and send them to live in Switzerland for them.
Yeah, it’s not FUD.
It’s really gotta be a 100% tax (that is, a hard cap) or nothing. Wealth that slowly whittles away will tend to move elsewhere.
I see fud used on a semi regular basis. It’s fear uncertainty and doubt. And I don’t think most people know that.
I wasn’t sure, but I was worried that’s what it was
but in the case where someone’s wealth is based on their skilled labor they do have a much easier time just leaving. If your wealth is from owning a portfolio of apartment buildings, good luck taking those with you.
Nice one
Wage-based taxation has always been an awkward way to target the rich.
Is it wages or is it income? Income covers much more than wages, and in a good system one would account for everything without loopholes. A comprehensive income tax that catches everything would go pretty far.
Wealth tax can be dicey, in theory. It would require a sell-off to actually have money that can be used to pay taxes, and the sell-off would change the value of the assets. For example, the S&P 500 is “worth” 46 billion dollars. That’s more than twice the “money” that exists total, it’s literally impossible to actually manifest all of that to dollars, so most of the “worth” cannot be “realized”.
If your wealth is from owning a portfolio of apartment buildings, good luck taking those with you.
Sell it to a holding company incorporated abroad. Own shares of that holding company instead.
I will enjoy hearing about how the rich will just move away from their fancy mansions on the Riviera and their suites in Paris to avoid paying this tax and then seeing it not happen.
Some of them, sure, but I wonder how many would consider it worth the price. This is an income taxe I’m assuming, so it’s not like they’d lose out on actual wealth, investments, etc.
It might be worth it if even just half stay and pay the taxe.
That was my point- they won’t leave. They like living there too much. That’s just always the excuse when such taxes are proposed for not doing them. “The rich will all just leave.”
If it’s successful presumably other places will start to follow suit. Somebody’s gotta go first tho.
It wasn’t done nationally, but the U.S. state of Massachusetts did it recently and it was quite successful.
Once again, the rich people with their Boston penthouses and Cape Cod beach homes didn’t want to leave.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/massachusetts-millionaires-tax-free-lunch-every-kid/
They raised $1 billion off of the relatively small number of rich people living in that state when the U.S. as a whole is taken into account.
There’s just no question to me that such taxes work. And the more places you implement them, the harder it will be to escape them.
I never understood this argument. As a middle class person, I would highly prefer if all rich people left.
They are the ones hording the wealth.
Wealth is generated by applying labour to natural resources, that process doesn’t really include rich people, they just gate the resources.
While I agree, they most certainly will still try their damnedest to avoid it. From illegal stuff like tax fraud, to trying stuff like officially “moving” their workplace to a tax haven, while still living in France. There would definitely be more class warfare to be had, even after this were to pass (which they of course will fight tooth and nail against)
No doubt. The rich can afford to pay people to find every loophole and take advantage of everything they can take advantage of. But I’m still glad this is happening.
And it doesn’t have to work perfectly to be worth it. Even if through rich-person fuckery they manage to stuff their (overseas) mattresses with hidden income, I’d bet the net result would be more €€€ in the public coffres.
Even if rich leave, so what? They dont have to pay taxes for shit and what little they do have to pay they will just avoid anyway.
Real estate prices go down a little? It’s hard to see a downside.
Ah I misunderstood. I see we’re in total agreement.
Still glad I made my comment, if only as a foil against general doomerism.
I think I’ve had this conversation with you before. Anyone who uses the “they’ll just leave” argument as a reason not to do it simply isn’t arguing in good faith.
This is a good start, for sure, but it should not be the end at all. The wealthier people get, the more effort they put into hiding/keeping that wealth.
Income/wealth/property/capital gains taxation is a balancing act. You want everyone paying their share; and everyone simultaneously agrees with that notion, while wanting to pay the absolute least for themselves. I would also argue that people need to see the benefits of that taxation in the form of maintained infrastructure and properly funded services. If it all just goes into the pockets of, e.g., the US military industrial complex, people will be less inclined to pay taxes at all.
Entirely possible. I’ve certainly discussed this topic multiple times. And yes, agreed, we need to do a lot more to curb excessive wealth.
Besides, the mere fact of implementing those tax rates makes high end luxury homes less valuable, because rich people from abroad will have less incentives to want to move there. So, if rich French people want to move from a very expensive home in France to a very expensive home in Germany, the new one will have to be less luxurious, because they won’t be able to sell the old one for that much.
Problem is that the Uber wealthy have all sorts of extra tax vehicles that even the 400k/year income folks don’t have. With various holding companies owning the various assets you use (e.g your car, house, etc.) your on-paper income can be quite a bit lower. Throw in various deductions and that’s how you get super wealthy people paying less taxes than “regular” people. Progressive tax rates already exist, and while this increases the percentage at these incomes, unless it addresses all the other loopholes, this will conveniently miss the 1% and instead impact high earning professionals.
This does actually happen more than you think - it’s why all the world’s football and tennis stars miraculously decide to move to Monte Carlo as soon as they hit the riches. Which is exactly why we need a coordinated tax policy at an EU, EEA or global level, to make sure that you can’t just choose a neighbouring country and pay an order of magnitude less.
“Radical set of ideas”
Rational set of ideas.
“Rational”
“Petrol price controls”
There is a slight argument to be made in order to stabilize transportation because people depend on the shipping of goods. However, there should be a differentiation between the shipment of necessities and luxuries. Ultimately this could come in the form of a higher tax on consumer goods and other for hire services.
I don’t think that’s what they’re getting at.
Or price controls at all.
We need to fix the price of croissants, vote for count Binface!
a new 90% tax on any annual income above €400,000 (£337,954)
Sexy, but as other commenters mentioned before, taxing existing wealth is more sexy
That’s true, but taxing wealth is significantly harder than taxing income or financial transactions (including inheritances).
Inflation is probably the easiest way to achieve that. You just have to be careful that wages rise along.
That’s another reason for increasing minimum wages, as they try to do.
Agree, focus on those loopholes that allow folks to have, for all intents and purposes, “income” without it actually counting. If you have spending money now that you didn’t have in a spending form before that point, well that’s income and we just need to make sure we cover all those scenarios that folks have figured out to “not count”.
I imagine gross violations would be easy enough to detect - assuming it’s something you actually use, anyway. Your buried treasure might be safe.
This type of taxation I would say is a version of the Ultimatum game. If the taxation is too high, they simply move and then you get nothing
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimatum_game
It has to be high enough, but not so high that they just move to Switzerland
Exit taxes for chuds.
Exit taxes are “one shot”. You pay them when you move out and then enjoy a lower taxation level for the rest of your life. Not much of a deterrent, at best a last ditch attempt at grabbing a few more dollars as your highest tax payers leave.
Or you could make them so high that they are de facto an appropriation of funds.
You can’t because the French Constitution and Human Rights guarantee the right to private property and a fair and proportional taxation. And that’s likely similar all over the western world.
Lmao, human rights of private property my ass. Personal property is not the same as private property. Fair proportional taxation is 99 % at some bracket.
You could tax based on citizenship, could make it the same €400,000 limit so it doesn’t effect normal expats and lower the rate a bit. Yeah the ultra rich can just buy citizenship in another country but many have at least a smidgeon of patriotism and won’t want to lose there citizenship.
Only the US and Eritrea are stupid enough bullies to tax on citizenship. Terrible f’cking idea.
It is actually an excellent idea, because it ensures billionaires don’t just move to Switzerland to evade taxes.
Income and gains should only be taxed in the jurisdiction they are earned. Only stupid Americans with a world view that consists of one country would argue otherwise. That’s literally what tax is for. Not to fund your country in your absence.
If “should” is all the argument you’ve got, I’m not convinced.
And only the US actually collects on it, because they are so at the heart of the financial world they can strongarm banks to report on their US clients.
This is a bit of a misleading summary.
Melenchon speaks for his own party, France Unbowed (LFI), not the entire NFP alliance.
The NFP as a whole has not declared support for Melenchon’s position, although his party controls 71 (~41%) of NFP’s 180 seats in the National Assembly.
Macron has already indicated that he will not allow Melenchon to become Prime Minister, and the entire NFP will be aware that they must select a more moderate leader to represent them if they expect to gain enough support from the centre to operate as a minority government.
Macron has already indicated that he will not allow Melenchon to become Prime Minister
Good news for LePen, I guess.
It’s not just Macron or Ensemble, even within the NFP some parties don’t want Melenchon from what I understand. At least the PS (Parti Socialiste, but they’re actually just social democrats) which has 59 seats and therefore the second most seats in the NFP doesn’t want him to be prime minister.
Thx stranger, so hard to get news from a single source if you’re not a specialist on the topic
The real problem isn’t the income the rich receive, it’s their tax avoidance methods that never show up as any income. This effectively puts a barrier on anyone who isn’t being a scummy shithead from ever reaching their level, it creates a safe harbor for billionaires to laugh from at anyone who ever reaches their level of influence, power, and wealth and might become their competitor if they do not do so in the manner of their oligarchic decades of experience within their inner circle.
This only convinces idiots, and is about as cluelessly meaningless populist legislation as anything fooling far right fascists. Literally ask yourself, who is the rich, because I can guarantee you it will only affect anyone from low to middle income classes who manage to find any wealth without seeking the horde of tax lobbyists true billionaires have.
Case in point, want to know what “rich” is for this piece of legislation? 90% tax on anyone who happens to earn above €400,000 (£337,954) for that year. I doubt this will even affect people earning above €400,000 every year because they have enough wealth and experience with paying the sort of tax advisors that will help orient them into tax avoidance. Billionaires are laughing at this measure.
I would not be surprised if this suggesting could be traced back to “think tanks” coming with this sort of bullshit that only caters and convinces the ignorant while shielding the actually rich. I realize most people will see this as a good thing because they see this as affecting “the rich”, but it really and truly does nothing against the real problem, and I would not even mind it if it wasn’t a sign that nothing will be done about billionaire and corporate tax avoidance schemes and that they are only trying to cater to a sentiment.
Have you seen the word "income"anywhere here ? ISF (Impôt sur la fortune) is tax on wealth, this law would say that if someone is rich we take some of its money. We use to have it in France before Macron removed it. Also the same leftist group is advocating for more funding towards fighting tax evasion amongst the wealthy.
EDIT: my bad the article does talk about income tax, point still stand, NFP still advocate for the ISF
So basically, it only makes sense when we pull back from the specifics right back into the ideological narrative. Again, the problem is tax avoidance. TAX. AVOIDANCE. Tax evasion is a problem but about as much as a criminal, it is not the norm that needs to be addressed.
What is the difference between tax evasion and tax avoidance ? Genuinely asking, I thought they were the same, might be a language barrier, English is not my native language.
Tax evasion is illegally trying to avoid taxes. Tax avoidance is making use of legal loopholes to legally not have to pay any taxes. Those companies and billionaires that are responsible for the greatest wealth inequality in the world, they are not amassing that wealth illegally, they make sure the system won’t come after them, either through tax advisors or through tax lobbyists. Usually “tax evaders” are the people who manage to get rich without the experience or the con men who don’t know when to stop like Trump.
I see, in french “Evasion fiscale” refer to both legal and illegal practices, which does create confusion sometimes when talking about it. We have other terms to clarify like “fraude fiscale” and “optimisation fiscale” but evasion is synonymous to both. When french NFP party talks about fighting “evasion fiscale” they mean they plan to fight both. Maybe the distinction got lost in translation.
To be clear the 90% tax is an income tax, which is actually not unprecedented as other commenters note. Melenchon has talked about 100% but I guess the other parties negotiated him down.
Actually, 90% income tax for the top incomes was common in western countries in the 50s.
Just 90% has the pro that you’ll actually collect revenue. Nobody’s paying out money that doesn’t reach the intended party even a bit. However, I feel like 100% would be worth it just for the paradigm shift in the way we think about society - that maybe there should be limits to how “special” you can get, and that that’s not spooky communism but simply realism about our mortal condition.
Hell yes. Finally policy suggestions which make sense. Autocratphiles masquerading as communists are mad at this turn of events??
Have you no idea how capitalists function?
Actual communists are more intelligent than this.
Its just hilarious seeing 400k being wealthy my man. The really wealthy don’t take a salary and instead have corporations and trust funds that pay them minimum salary and more stocks and shares. They then leverage these stocks and shares using cheap loans from their bank buddies for very low interest tates.
Income tax is a tax on the working class, not the capitalist class.
AVERAGE annual income in France (the one that gets skewed by a handful of people making exorbitant incomes) is €41,000. Over half of people in France make less than 1/10th the €400,000 mark. This tax doesn’t affect anyone that actually works for a living
This tax doesn’t affect anyone that actually works for a living
The average general surgeon in France makes around 230,000 euros before bonuses and all, so there are surgeons out there making 400k euros. I’m pretty sure they work for a living. You also underestimate how hard highly paid corporate executives work. You might not VALUE their work, but most of them work their asses off (even if what they are doing is counterproductive or stupid or worthless).
This tax doesn’t affect very many people who work for a living, but the people who are wealthy enough to actually not work for a living at all will not be affected either, since this isn’t a tax on wealth.
Does the french suggestion separate income types? It’s very preferable to tax non-working high wealth & income even more than salary income.
Capitalists usually aim the tax pressure towards median salary income, and less for stocks, or property. The regressive model should be switched to progressive taxing.
No true Scotsman. The evidence is right in front of you but you don’t want to see it.
All i am saying is that if you tax working people its not actually doing what it said on the tin: taxing the rich. Rich people don’t work for their income. Their money works for them.
I agree with you about that part, the part I’m criticizing you for is your continued belief that ‘real’ communists are intelligent even though the comments here are filled with their shoddy reasoning and inability to learn from reality
The really wealthy don’t take income. Instead they park their wealth in stocks and trust funds and leverage those as collateral for cheap loans from their buddies at the bank.
I thought communists were intelligent but this thread is
devoid of any intelligence.quite cheery about something that won’t even impact any capitalist.Don’t you all know what "Capital"ist means?
An income tax is a tax on the working class.
You morons should stop salivating and start eating more dried fruits.Edit: I realize calling people morons is a bit too much. Sorry about that. I was just miffed by a few who were cheering on punishing their own class. It’s so hard to find class solidarity in this day and age.
I think there is a significant distinction between “regular” working class and “earning above €400,000 per year” working class.
Argument is correct.
Tone is asshole.
Upvote or downvote? I’m not sure on this one.
Sorry about the tone. I was just miffed by a few who were cheering on punishing their own class. It’s so hard to find class solidarity in this day and age.
Income from capital can be, and is, taxed differently. In the U.K. there is Capital Gains Tax, for example. Why not adjust this instead of income tax?
Because capital gains taxes are only taken when a gain is realized. Me selling my 2 shares of Boeing will get taxed capital gains, but the person holding 200,000 shares and using them as collateral for untaxed loans will get no capital gains taxes assessed.
Also because making gains in the market is one of the few ways a working class person can set themselves up for retirement (as fucked up as that is), so raising the tax would hurt them more unless you have a tiered structure like we do for income tax brackets.
The same argument I was trying to make. Any tax is gonna be just cost of business for billionaires and industrialists.
I don’t know how France classifies “income”, so it could be good at capturing income. It’s our own fault when something that is obviously “income” doesn’t technically count, in principle a tax system can capture everything that makes sense to count.
In the US, along with wages, interest income and dividend income also count as “regular” income and are taxed appropriately. Capital gains is… weirder and this is the first area ripe for opportunity to reform to capture “rich guy income is different than normal guy income”, as long as it is intelligent about it (e.g. if you said, without qualification, all capital gains are taxed like crazy, then suddenly selling your house as part of moving becomes an unreasonable burden, which is why it already has an exemption, but just an example to say vaguely why we have to be careful about capital gains).
Then you get to the borrowing you mention, and I’ve seen a pretty reasonable approach to capture that as “income”, in theory: https://equitablegrowth.org/closing-the-billionaire-borrowing-loophole-would-strengthen-the-progressivity-of-the-u-s-tax-code/
TL;DR: Currently borrowing doesn’t count as realizing gains, change it so that borrowing counts as “selling” the stock, further mandating that the cost basis of all identical stock is a specific way rather than letting the shareholder pick and choose their most favored cost basis.
I’d be willing to concede some tax break on repayment of such a loan to reconcile “real income” being exchanged for it down the road, but at that point I think it would largely be academic because suddenly there’s no point in borrowing against the stock rather than just selling it outright.
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i took pleasure reading that aloud and rolling the k’s
Can you expand on what kkkrakkker means?
The kkk references an organization common to the American Midwest and Deep South known as the “Klu Klux Klan”, most notorious for its domestic terrorist activities aimed at wealthy and well-organized communities of color following the end of the American Civil War. They were also a powerful political caucus stretching across both major American parties for over a century. Often conceived of as a “secret society” with a certain practices bordering on the occult as part of initiation and promotion, the real influence of the organization tended to boil down to its control of state and local police agencies and prosecuting offices.
A cracker is a stale white salty piece of bread, often served with soup or stew.
Gotchya.
For a second there I thought they were using it to say they’d take all of someone’s money based on the color of their skin as well as associating all white people with the KKK.
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Ah. Just saw the .ml. Good luck with the racism.
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And here I thought it had something to do with treating people a certain way because of the color of their skin. /shrug.
Call it whatever you want but it’s morally disgusting to treat anyone a particular way due to immutable traits.
Can we get a non Murdoch source on this?
This is not a tax on the rich, it’s a tax on the upper middle class.
The… upper middle class…? An income of 400,000 euros? that’s 10x the median income.
What tf is rich then?
Policies favoring the rich are always sold as favoring the middle class. If middle class means the rich, then upper middle class means the filthy rich.
People who make money by investing. In the USA, the top 1% earn their income through investments, usually the purchase and sale of stocks. These are not taxed the same as regular income because they made the argument that you can’t really tax unrealized gains on investments that are sold, and it takes a while for the gains to actually materialize. Also, they tend to store their money, their liquid assets, in countries with looser tax laws, called tax havens. Much of their net worths are tied up in investments. Businesses, homes, art, classic vehicles, precious metals futures, oil futures, boats, etc.
Assessing the value of all of that is a chore, and they also pay lobbyists to keep the IRS defanged so that they don’t have the resources needed to go after the 1%. And don’t get me started on how much more speculative the stock market has become. Investors buy stocks, not on the expected dividends they’ll receive as a share of the profits of the business, but on their ability to flip the stock and sell it at a higher price to another investor, who is only buying because they anticipate flipping the stock. It’s like if a whole neighborhood of single family homes gets bought up buy a few house flippers, who make renovations, then put the houses up for sale, and sell to new flippers, who are only buying so they can make further renovations, increasing the value of the property again to sell to yet another flipper, ad nauseam.
This is France
Your point? The USA became the model for the western world in many respects after WW2, I would not be surprised if French billionaires make their money the same way American billionaires do.
It’s just an extremely usaian thing to do. Mega cringe to see constantly.
400k euro is still like the peak of wealth. Nobody is earning that much reasonably, even if there are even wealthier people doing shenanigans.
People who don’t pay income tax in the first place because they are so rich they don’t need a normal income. Those need to be taxed more.
Rich is when you have little to no taxable income, and your wealth is mostly unrealised captial gains that you borrow against to fund your lifestyle, and you use various other strategies to offset whatever salary you do get with expenses or make it otherwise untaxable
I laugh so hard because the headline for me is great news, only now I realized it’s sky news so it’s supposed to be scaring people
Your instinct to search for a non-Murdoch source is correct, as they are trying to paint the entire NFP as holding the same positions as their most extreme member.
There is little to no chance of Melenchon becoming Prime Minister or having any ability to enact this tax.
However a marginal tax rate of 90% on income over €400k is well above the upper-middle class and would apply to only the wealthiest families, most of whom would still have other avenues to minimise the tax they actually pay.
400’000€ yearly income is not middle class. It is roughly the top 1%. Are you maybe mistaking property for income?
I would have preferred taxing on property instead of income, but as long as interests and profits and other benefits are part of income, it sounds reasonable to me.
The rich don’t have income, they take out loans against assets
Macron would probably sooner dissolve the republic and declare the third empire than allow this to happen, but I wish the NPF good luck.
As Macron likes to say: “Souverän ist, wer über den Ausnahmezustand entscheidet”
Tax them. Tax the fuck out of their income and wealth.
The sad thing about high taxes like that is that it can penalize normal people with a normal, high income job. 400k won’t probably matter but in my experience, I have a high salary and I don’t have the time or even the money to hire a bunch of people to optimize my taxes in a tax free-heaven paradise.
Normal working people shouldn’t be taxed like crazy. Corporation is the thing we want to target. Large corporations. They have the mean to evade the laws.
The common man and women does not. Even if you have a small company, you do not have the time or the money to ignore the laws or taxes.
Capitalism isn’t made for big corporations. It is made for small company competing with each other. How the fuck the common Man is supposed to compete with Walmart? Like, what??
Oh look, someone who doesn’t understand how progressive tax brackets work.
The 90% only kicks in on any money made over €400k, bro. That means they’re already making that 400k (less whatever the prior tax brackets are), and if they make €400,100 then only that extra €100 is taxed at 90%. This is so far from hurting “normal working people” that I can hardly believe your take isn’t a deliberate troll.
I know how tax brackets work. That’s exactly how you can optimize your taxes. You try to lower your income as much as possible with all the shenanigans that exists in the law. That’s what I’m saying.
If I do 410k and I don’t have time to optimize my shit, I’m penalized because very rich bro that owns company and shit can hire other bros to optimize their taxes.
