How is it that the general response to this debate is “Trump rambled nonsensically and told conflicting lies and wants to undermine democracy, but Biden was recovering from a cold, so he’s unfit.”
Like in what world are these issues comparable?
Like in what world are these issues comparable?
Everyone who already knows that Trump is a moron can’t actually develop a lower opinion of him.
Anyone who doesn’t know that Trump is a moron is too dense to parse anything more complex than a ten-second Fox News soundbite.
Thus, Biden giving a mediocre performance hurts Biden much more than Trump doing his normal word-salad oral diarrhea hurts Trump.
It’s not fair or logical, but it’s the way things work at the moment.
Very generous of you to call it a “mediocre performance”.
but Biden was recovering from a cold, so he’s unfit.”
Literally haven’t seen that excuse yet…
Has he been recovering from a cold the last decade?
The biggest thing people are complaining about was Biden was a little hoarse against Trump’s booming nonsensical rambling.
I don’t care if Biden was hoarse. At Trump’s best, he made no sense, and at his worst, he was pushing terrible ideologies
It seemed a lot worse than being a little hoarse. He was conflating issues, mid sentence. And getting confused regularly in addition to seeming really feeble and not being able to answer what is asked of him. Listen if this was the first i was seeing this from the president, then i might buy this is just him mid fever. But it’s not and is expected from a man at his age. Still voting for him, but i am thinking Kamala Harris is going to have to take over the presidency before long.
In all honesty I think negotiating with Kamala for her to step into the AG role and open up the VP slot for Newsome or Buttigieg would be the game changer.
I don’t see our current trajectory as being successful, so this seems the only winning play. Not changing things risks everything for no good reason
I hardly saw any mentions of him being hoarse reading through the megathread comments last night.
Stuff like, winning the war against Medicaid, on the other hand, as well as his general just got out of bed demeanor, is absolutely going to erode confidence in him and quite potentially cost progressives the election if they don’t pick a different horse.
The biggest thing people are complaining about was Biden was a little hoarse
Who is saying that?
It’s not in the article you’re commenting on, and I haven’t seen a single complaint about his voice being “hoarse”.
Can you link what you’re talking about where the main complaint about Biden was he seemed hoarse?
He was recovering from a cold? Is this really the excuse Democrats are gonna go with?
The point isn’t the “excuse”, it’s the criticism over him not having full power behind his voice during the debate being irrelevant.
Which is incidentally the only real criticism I could see this morning, beyond people falsely claiming he was incoherent. Which he absolutely was not.
Oh right, his just going mid-sentence from abortion to illegal immigration is textbook coherency, amirite?
Like PSA said, “new strategy to pivot from your strongest to your weakest issue!”
Tell me you didn’t watch the debate without telling me.
The new pro-Biden platform is that it was all about a cold making his voice soft. Of course they are going to ignore the actual issues. A real primary would have made things much more obvious, when you had him on stage with some 40 and 50 year old folks.
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We finally beat medicare!
both candidates are the age of my grandfather who lives with me because he needs care
no way either candidate has escaped the ravages of time
Biden and Trump both are selfishly keeping a younger generation from stepping in
Yup. Fuck them.
I’m voting for Biden, but fuck them both all the same.
I hate this timeline.
Such obvious bullshit.
He’s leading the party just fine against Trump right now.
I’m saying this as someone that donated ~$1000 to Bernie.
I’m personally glad Biden is handling Ukraine & not Sanders.
You’d have to be astoundingly stupid to think that the DNC is going to change tack 5 months prior to the election.
EDIT: Oh look, there are 12 of them now.
Starting with a declaimer of being fairly far left…
Biden is not looking like he has a winning chance. He’s barely leading in national polls, but those polls are misleading, as, because of the senate, democrats typically need to win by 2.5-3 points in order to have a shot at the electoral college. So he’s behind there.
He’s behind in several key states where he needs to win. If you count states where he’s down 2 points or less, he BARELY has enough to win. Can’t miss a single state.
The debate hurt Biden. This is not a logical contest, it’s a popularity one, and Biden is not doing well. I think he’s done some great policy things, but that’s not how people vote. Democrats have to learn that it’s not enough to be “right” if you’re going to lose elections.
Polls are garbage.
Democrats have been beating the polls at the ballot boxes by 9 points nationwide since Roe v. Wade was overturned.
It’s been going on long enough now that either pollsters don’t want to adjust or they don’t know how.
As for the debate, there is (conservative funded so YMMV) research that shows that debates don’t change anyone’s mind.
Don’t get so wrapped up in their dog & pony show.
Saying polls are garbage is a straight bad take. The differentiation between polls is immense, and people treat them like they are just one thing.
They do adjust, and if you don’t know that I’m not likely to believe you have the knowledge to say they are bad.
Polls are still very indicative. Democrats are not magically beating them by 9 points. That’s just flatly untrue, unless you are just rolling every poll together with no regard for methodology, funding source, sample size, or track record.
That information came from David Axelrod, you can argue with him if you think he’s wrong.
Would be a great move to pick someone new but right before the nomination. Lots of independents want anyone but these 2 old dudes. If either party picked a different candidate, I think they would easily take the White House.
(Unlikely) but if the dems really just had biden out there to take the brunt of trumps attacks up until the nomination, then a majority of trumps platform (biden bad) goes out the window, while the dems platform (trump bad) gets to remain in place.
Would be a galaxy brain strategy but I don’t think anyone in politics would be smart enough to pull something like that off.
Above all, Joe Biden’s allies wanted him to demonstrate strength and energy on the debate stage to help put to rest questions about the 81-year-old Democrat’s physical and mental acuity.
But on the biggest stage in U.S. politics on Thursday night, Biden did not meet their modest expectations.
And by the end of the 90-minute showdown, the Democratic president’s allies — party strategists and rank-and-file voters alike — descended into all-out panic following a debate performance punctuated by repeated stumbles, uncomfortable pauses, and a quiet speaking style that was often difficult to understand. Publicly and privately, Democrats questioned whether the party could or should replace him as the party’s presidential nominee against the 78-year-old Republican former President Donald Trump this fall.
"I’m not the only one whose heart is breaking right now. There’s a lot of people who watched this tonight and felt terribly for Joe Biden,” former Democratic Sen. Claire McCaskill said on MSNBC. “I don’t know if things can be done to fix this.”
What we can do is run a better candidate before it’s too late.
The convention isn’t for over a month, and the DNC has been very open about how they can just nominate anyone they want.
We’re only stuck with Biden because Biden and the people he put in charge of the DNC would rather risk trump than Biden step aside.
Can you imagine what it would look like if they chose someone like Jon Stewart instead? How a debate like that would have gone? A guy can dream…
Jon Stewart is someone I would actually look forward to giving my vote.
Would he have to leave the Daily Show though?
No but he would only agree to working one day a week as POTUS.
I mean, he’s only on once a week… Lol. In fact, he wasn’t on this week, so far.
He was on live yesterday post debate
He was on a live show Thursday right after the debate.
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Just anyone with more charisma than a bowl of cold oatmeal.
If nothing matters except beating trump, why arent we coalescing around a candidate Dem voters want so that we’ll get as much votes against trump as possible
The problem is “a candidate dem voters want” doesn’t have any obvious choices.
Like Harris isn’t that popular, but the optics of skipping over a black woman when the VP would typically be the heir apparent? You think Gavin Newsom would be a good choice? Californians don’t have a lot of good things to say about him right now. I haven’t seen a lot of other names floated.
The problem is that the DNC would never go for him or anyone like him, because he’s not a blatant neoliberal.
If they swap, it’ll be someone like Newsom.
I mean yea, but that’s not really fair to him. Being president seems like a terrible burden.
These debates are only there for Biden to lose 🤷
And he certainly rose to the occasion last night.
I don’t understand why any one Biden’s side thought this was a good idea. Biden has never been a good speaker I believe mostly due to his stutter. The only thing Trump knows how to do is talk he’s a damn salesman. I guess the hope was that Biden could string together some coherent sentences in order to hit back at Trump’s lies and tout his achievements. I just think putting your candidates weakest trait against the other candidates strongest trait was a stupid risky thing to do from the outset with limited positive potential.
So we should just do away with debates?
I think debates and townhalls are Biden’s best bet right now. He needs to show that it was just a bad night for him.
And if it wasn’t just a bad night, it’ll spur action to find a viable replacement.
He couldn’t beat Trump in a relatively simple debate, how is he supposed to beat him in an election?
