This is the argument I see to defend use of the word and I’ve never understood it. Where I am (west coast-ish of the US), the word is used very specifically to mean autistic. If you ask someone not to say retard, they say autistic instead. If you ask them not to say autistic, they say special education. If not that, slow. If not that, someone who takes the short bus. Unambiguously the people here use the r slur as a slur against autistic people. They use it as an insult towards allistic people to degrade them as lesser. Same as calling a straight person the f slur. Maybe it’s different in other parts of the country, but the r slur is absolutely used as a slur against autistic people where I am.
I’m sorry this happens where you live, that’s super messed up. Autism is particularly frustrating to see denigrated because it all too often comes down to social ineptitude (so far as the people who ostracize others go). Everyone’s brains work differently - this idea that anyone who breaks the mold should be cut down is incredibly frustrating and sad.
the constant reality is that hateful losers just want to be verbally disdainful and othering to the disabled, and they will do whatever they can to keep doing it even if it means changing their language
the model of the “euphemism treadmill,” while accurate, is just another tool spiteful people use to justify saying spiteful derogatives
Without a doubt, there are hateful, spiteful losers who not only use but take pleasure in using language with the specific intent of causing maximum harm.
In spite of this fact, there I think it’s worthwhile to call out exceptions exist - since a plan of attack has the best chance of success when the full context, the entire enemy, is known. The last person I heard use the word IRL is:
kind and generous
thoughtful, otherwise respectful, well mannered
(a leftist pacifist vegan)
friends with a wide, diverse cross section of humanity
But I know they grew up around the word and haven’t seen someone it’s hurt, so they used it like they’d use any other word - without intent to harm, just ignorantly.
I’d take tips on how best to counsel them if it comes up again. I think exploring their potential blindspot (no/few disabled friends?) would be part of my strategy. Thankfully they are not just some hateful piece of shit because it wouldn’t be worth my time talking at a wall if they were. They will at least be open to entertaining an argument about the potential impact of their words even in able-bodied/minded company. Thankful that’s the kind of person they are! And when we accurately assess people it gives us our best shot at righting our collective vocabulary.
yea the hateful and spiteful are the ones that push the bill on things.
for your friend, i have had this exact experience. i just went “hey friend, that word has some history that makes it hurtful to some people, just a heads up since the way you used it sounded like you maybe weren’t aware”
That reminds me I think it was a slip, cuz I mentioned it years ago and didn’t hear it for over a year - I’m fine to remind again if I need to! Thanks :)
South Park did a whole episode about this with “fag” nobody is using the word to insult actual homosexuals (except hateful bigots I suppose) just like nobody us using the word “retard” to slur the disabled. (again apart from the bigoted assholes) if I say something that offends someone, then they can tell me and I’ll apologize. But I don’t need someone policing my language just in case someone might be upset by a word.
i guess you just have to ask yourself if you are cool with aligning your language with that of bigoted assholes - and risk hurting and/or being judged for it. i will judge you and probably assume you are on the side of the bigoted assholes simply because on a game of odds it’s more likely.
it takes very little effort to be kind and when minorities tell you a very minute step you can take to be kind i generally don’t want to try to fight back as though i’m the one being insulted.
Not only is the word fag used by a lot of people, because there are a lot of hateful bigots out there, but even when you don’t mean the nasty implications, it still reminds gay people around you how much the world hates them and leads hateful bigots who overhear you to believe that their views are more widely held and acceptable to share in public. Shocking though it may seem, South Park is not a moral authority on these matters.
Aside from that, if you know a word is commonly used a slur against a disprivileged group, someone advises you to stop using it, and your response is that you’d rather say it, hurt someone and apologise if they complain about it than just stop using that word, what does that say about your priorities?
So I think we can be preemptively told not to say the word on social media. (RE: “if I…offend someone…I’ll apologize”) When you’re talking to your best friend in your car though it’s probably hard to demand you police yourself (in the example you never use the word in public, and neither you nor your friend ever will no matter how much you say it privately). So it shouldn’t be a thought crime kinda but probably appropriate to avoid it in public or unfamiliar company.
Curious what you think of that take spujb - “tree falls in the forest …”
when an entire disabled community gets together and tells abled people that the word carries hurt, that should be more than enough evidence. if that’s not enough for a person, my only suggestion is to look inward and ask why they are so quick to doubt the personal statements of lived experiences of thousands of disabled folks.
regarding the “tree falls in the forest” thing—i literally don’t care. arguing it just gives bad vibes; some arguments you lose the moment you try to debate bro them. like i remember this one streamer who was like “but what if i said the n word in the vaccum of space where no light or sound could escape” and it’s just like bro the fact that you touch so little grass to the point you are arguing about this tells us all we need to know about you.
I asked a question about this after seeing it quite a bit here!
This is the argument I see to defend use of the word and I’ve never understood it. Where I am (west coast-ish of the US), the word is used very specifically to mean autistic. If you ask someone not to say retard, they say autistic instead. If you ask them not to say autistic, they say special education. If not that, slow. If not that, someone who takes the short bus. Unambiguously the people here use the r slur as a slur against autistic people. They use it as an insult towards allistic people to degrade them as lesser. Same as calling a straight person the f slur. Maybe it’s different in other parts of the country, but the r slur is absolutely used as a slur against autistic people where I am.
I’m sorry this happens where you live, that’s super messed up. Autism is particularly frustrating to see denigrated because it all too often comes down to social ineptitude (so far as the people who ostracize others go). Everyone’s brains work differently - this idea that anyone who breaks the mold should be cut down is incredibly frustrating and sad.
the constant reality is that hateful losers just want to be verbally disdainful and othering to the disabled, and they will do whatever they can to keep doing it even if it means changing their language
the model of the “euphemism treadmill,” while accurate, is just another tool spiteful people use to justify saying spiteful derogatives
Without a doubt, there are hateful, spiteful losers who not only use but take pleasure in using language with the specific intent of causing maximum harm.
In spite of this fact, there I think it’s worthwhile to call out exceptions exist - since a plan of attack has the best chance of success when the full context, the entire enemy, is known. The last person I heard use the word IRL is:
But I know they grew up around the word and haven’t seen someone it’s hurt, so they used it like they’d use any other word - without intent to harm, just ignorantly.
I’d take tips on how best to counsel them if it comes up again. I think exploring their potential blindspot (no/few disabled friends?) would be part of my strategy. Thankfully they are not just some hateful piece of shit because it wouldn’t be worth my time talking at a wall if they were. They will at least be open to entertaining an argument about the potential impact of their words even in able-bodied/minded company. Thankful that’s the kind of person they are! And when we accurately assess people it gives us our best shot at righting our collective vocabulary.
yea the hateful and spiteful are the ones that push the bill on things.
for your friend, i have had this exact experience. i just went “hey friend, that word has some history that makes it hurtful to some people, just a heads up since the way you used it sounded like you maybe weren’t aware”
and it went over pretty well :) kind people rock
Good to hear :)
That reminds me I think it was a slip, cuz I mentioned it years ago and didn’t hear it for over a year - I’m fine to remind again if I need to! Thanks :)
South Park did a whole episode about this with “fag” nobody is using the word to insult actual homosexuals (except hateful bigots I suppose) just like nobody us using the word “retard” to slur the disabled. (again apart from the bigoted assholes) if I say something that offends someone, then they can tell me and I’ll apologize. But I don’t need someone policing my language just in case someone might be upset by a word.
i guess you just have to ask yourself if you are cool with aligning your language with that of bigoted assholes - and risk hurting and/or being judged for it. i will judge you and probably assume you are on the side of the bigoted assholes simply because on a game of odds it’s more likely.
it takes very little effort to be kind and when minorities tell you a very minute step you can take to be kind i generally don’t want to try to fight back as though i’m the one being insulted.
Not only is the word fag used by a lot of people, because there are a lot of hateful bigots out there, but even when you don’t mean the nasty implications, it still reminds gay people around you how much the world hates them and leads hateful bigots who overhear you to believe that their views are more widely held and acceptable to share in public. Shocking though it may seem, South Park is not a moral authority on these matters.
Aside from that, if you know a word is commonly used a slur against a disprivileged group, someone advises you to stop using it, and your response is that you’d rather say it, hurt someone and apologise if they complain about it than just stop using that word, what does that say about your priorities?
Great episode.
I think they 👇
need an example of someone being hurt to drive their point home.
@spujb@lemmy.cafe do you have a ready example?
Aight this isn’t bad:
So I think we can be preemptively told not to say the word on social media. (RE: “if I…offend someone…I’ll apologize”) When you’re talking to your best friend in your car though it’s probably hard to demand you police yourself (in the example you never use the word in public, and neither you nor your friend ever will no matter how much you say it privately). So it shouldn’t be a thought crime kinda but probably appropriate to avoid it in public or unfamiliar company.
Curious what you think of that take spujb - “tree falls in the forest …”
when an entire disabled community gets together and tells abled people that the word carries hurt, that should be more than enough evidence. if that’s not enough for a person, my only suggestion is to look inward and ask why they are so quick to doubt the personal statements of lived experiences of thousands of disabled folks.
regarding the “tree falls in the forest” thing—i literally don’t care. arguing it just gives bad vibes; some arguments you lose the moment you try to debate bro them. like i remember this one streamer who was like “but what if i said the n word in the vaccum of space where no light or sound could escape” and it’s just like bro the fact that you touch so little grass to the point you are arguing about this tells us all we need to know about you.