Me watching WWDC: “Android already does that.”
Me watching Google I/O “iOS already does that.”
In ten years all phones will be crabs
I knew there was a link between cell phones and cancer!!
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if only i could be as successful as mr. krabs…
I’m experiencing déjà vu…
EDIT: Found this thread in the wild, then stumbled upon it. That’s why.
Windows phone 10 had most of these things in 2015
It had everything except apps.
Ouch
… and the users
Oof. I felt the heat from that burn from all the way over here
I miss Windows phone, still the most intuitive phone UI I’ve ever seen.
Microsoft: “I think we really nailed this phone UI. We should make this the desktop computer experience too.”
Ok my god. I had an Samsung Omnia 7 and I loved the Metro UI.
Remote Desktop to a Windows 2008 Server and try to open the Start Menu by clicking a single pixel in the left lower corner… Shoot me.
Qnx had a lot of features before windows phone in 2013.
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I would argue that it’s the nature of having a mature and complex product. Adding new stuff is hard because you have a lot of legacy code / UX that you have to accommodate for. You need to move slower because it’s easier to break stuff in a more mature product.
I’d also argue that Apple and Google’s research teams are generally hearing the similar stuff out of their end users, so it’s to be expected that both companies are going to prioritize similar functionality.
That was my experience when I’ve worked on massive products. The complexity of the product impacts development speed, and shared understandings of user desires results in similar feature sets between competitors.
Yes. Android already does all these things. But I think the things I’m excited most about are not on this list at all.
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A private local LLM. With the on-device context of my notes, messages, calendar, etc, I’m rather excited to have a more personal LLM than ChatGPT.
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Personal messaging via satellite. I love that I can stay in touch with people outside of a cell network.
A private local LLM
Running on a phone? No way, not without being absolutely horrible, slow or making your phone churn through your battery anyway.
Good LLMs are olready slow on a GTX 1080, which is already miles faster than any phone out there
I hear you, but also I would be shocked if Apple were to roll this out and it be an absolutely terrible experience. Like their MO is “luxury” products with “premium” experiences, it would not be fitting of the brand to have a piece of crap experience on their flagship announcement.
I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.
You might wanna check with siri on that. Apple regularly failed at that even under the leadership of Jobs. And Tim Cook is no Steve Jobs. It’s already looking like it’s going to be just standard remote chat GPT. Hallucinations and all.
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Apple Maps was bad, yes. But they had their hand forced. Google started charging for their API (enough to cripple their app), and they had very little time to create one of their own.
That’s not happening here. No one is forcing their hand. If they didn’t release an updated Siri this year, nothing would happen.
But apple maps is much better now lederp.jpeg.
It’s not a LLM, it’s a much smaller model (~3B) which is closer to what Microsoft labels as a SLM (Small Language Models, e.g. MS Phi-3 Mini).
https://machinelearning.apple.com/research/introducing-apple-foundation-models
Microsoft’s penchant for making up names for thing that already have names is neither here nor there. It is an LLM, in fact its already twice as large as chatGPT2 (1.5B params).
I do think it’s a useful distinction considering open models can be more than 100B+ nowdays and GPT4 is rumored to be 1.7T params. Plus this class of models are far more likely to be on-device.
You would be surprised. If you haven’t tried to run a LLM on Apple silicon, it’s pretty snappy but like all others, RAM can be a significantly limiting factor unless the model is trimmed down to do very specific things to reduce the size.
I think It’s running on their “Private cloud compute” platform, not locally (I’m not sure though)
some things are run locally.
Did I understand correctly that this is only going to be in the iPhone 15 pro? Because that’s a lot more expensive than a pixel, more than I’d ever spend on a phone tbh.
The satellite im fairly sure is only pro
Satellite is on 14+
We went hiking and tried calling emergency services but my friend’s 14 pro couldn’t get any signal for some reason. Idk what was wrong, me and my friend with pixels had no issues though.
Where do you live?
This was in the LA mountains. Angeles national park
I don’t know. Pixels don’t support call vis satellite though
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But there’s literally zero phones which can use it
also excited for hands free unlock of smart door locks. not sure if android/google home does that.
I’d add to that list. If Siri is 3/4 as capable as shown in the presentation, that’s sick. Android does not have that.
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Are you talking about apple copying the features but being a bit late?
Android can do satellite messaging? Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?
I’m not an Apple fanboy nor do I use an iPhone currently but this headline is ridiculous.
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Satellite messaging is already available in Android 15 beta
Perhaps in software, but I don’t think there is a current phone that has the hardware to take advantage. For now, this is essentially an Apple only feature. It’s a pretty good bet we are going to see some flagships released with it in the next year though.
I know that Pixel 7’s and above support it. There are Reddit posts showing they have the feature already. Satellite messaging is just using standard 4G/LTE from Starlink. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is only an OS update away for most newer phones.
That’s pretty cool, I assumed they needed additional hardware. Thanks.
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And? How many android devices can you name that actually support satellite messaging today? When the feature DOES come on the android side, I imagine it is going to probably be flagship devices as well. Seems to be a silly thing to call Apple out for.
Its been on every Pixel since the 7 I believe, I realize that’s only a couple iterations but its out there.
Android 15 beta… so it’ll be available on phones, out of the box, without anyone having to build/install a custom, on phones actual normal humans buy in about 2030 then.
Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?
Do people actually want these?
LLM is AI correct? If my phone is going to do AI at all, I prefer it be done on device for sure. For privacy reasons if nothing else. But it’s not anything I’ve really looked into. I have the S24 and the only AI feature I use is the Circle to search… which I don’t consider to be AI.
LLM is a form of AI, specifically the text AIs like ChatGPT that have suddenly made “AI” a dinner table term. AI in some form or another is almost definitely being used in your device - even for things like filling in gaps in low-quality voice calls, and probably has been for a while. But the problem is that unlike those “old” AIs, LLMs require some significant power to run, so running them on phones will probably require meaningful trade-offs. But the increased security is also a meaningful benefit.
They add a kinda nifty “copy subject” option that is supposedly local AI stuff to the samsung gallery, fun to mess with
“Android phone makers are shipping on device LLMs?”
…yes?
My last brand new Pixel phone had debug strings in the user interface and the UI was not responsive. It’s the daily annoyances and details that made me get an iPhone. Comparisons have been stupid since the beginning of smartphones.
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As much as I hate apple and google, I want a future where all these can be done locally without massive servers and sending all data to cloud . Apple clearly have a edge over google in that regards.
Ah, you mean like the sync that Palm OS used to have? Yup, that was neat, and I’m still waiting for Android to pick up some of the neat features from back then.
I miss palm OS. I think it had some undeniable jank but it also had great features and a bit of “charm”. I’m pretty sure I still remember most of the Graffiti alphabet!
I totally bought a Palm off eBay few months ago. It’s been fun to use Palm OS 5 again. I got a model that actually has WiFi, which was also interesting to set up a AP that was compatible with it.
One I got had a dead battery, ordered a new one, it was so much nicer to open the old tech and replace the battery. Just screw and little solder. No glue and impossible small stuff to work with.
It definitely comes at a cost though. The private local models will be inherently dumber because of less compute and smaller data sets.
And, unfortunately, this is a hard thing to communicate to the public. All they know is that Assistant responded to a request better than Siri.
Look into the past , what a huge server does now a small SBC can do now . In 10 years what chatgot runs in cloud could potentially be running in a smartphone
I didn’t realise android did free SMS over satellite when there is no cellular connection
Looks like it’s been available on some android devices for at least a month. I don’t know about free though, I think it depends on your carrier. I know T-Mobile has been talking about supporting it using Starlink satellites.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tmobile/comments/1ct1no1/satellite_messaging_option_appeared_on_my_pixel_7/ https://www.t-mobile.com/news/un-carrier/first-spacex-satellites-launch-for-breakthrough-direct-to-cell-service-with-t-mobile
But with the iPhone it’s free, and not carrier dependent and works outside of the United States for those of us in the rest of the world….
For me the importance is that it’s free - I wouldn’t even pay $5 a month for a service that I’d use in very unlikely situations probably once or twice a year.
Isn’t the satellite thing just free temporarily?
They said it’s free for 2 years with any new purchase of iPhone since iPhone 14; and now they’ve extended it for 1 more year. No one has had to pay for any of it yet - and it’s unknown if/when/how it’ll be a paid service
This has been the case for at least 11 years.
Idk, I think Apple was first to do face unlock. That’s all I got…
I used to unlock my desktop with my face a long time ago (20 years or so)… No clue when it came to mobile devices, I could totally see Apple bringing that to mobile first.
Yeah, the tech itself isn’t new. Fingerprint sensors also took a while to come to mobile, and they’ve been around for ages.
I’m also not interested in face unlock. Passwords work fine, and fingerprints are more than plenty for lazy people.
I wholeheartedly agree, I thought it was cool until I realized the security concerns. FDE and pass phrases only please. If only someone could convince more companies to allow proper TOTP instead of wanting you to use their proprietary authenticator.
Yup, looking at you, Fidelity and Steam…
What about round corners?
Android is 5 years ahead of iPhone 60% of the time
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Good for Android, now if they’d only implement all of the Apple-only features that create the lock-in appeal then maybe they’ll get somewhere. When my Pixel Buds flow seamlessly from device to device to the third and fourth device then maybe we’ll talk
I have the Pixel Buds Pro and they kinda do that, but yeah not very well. I have them paired to my phone and my laptop, and sometimes randomly they’ll silently disconnect from my laptop and permanently pause whatever I was watching if my phone plays a notification. I can’t fix it until I disconnect from and reconnect to my laptop multiple times.
One time I was watching a video on my laptop and they randomly connected to my desktop! I hadn’t used them on my desktop in at least a year, until then!
All in all, they can flow seamlessly, but it’s 60/40 on if it works properly
At least the noise cancelling and passthrough are fun to mess with
How many devices do you switch between? For me, it’s phone, tablet, two laptops and my watch. I think that the Pixel Buds can switch between two without needing a re-pair. Meanwhile, I can stream my Apple TV audio to my AirPods as they’re also an audio source! Even if Google released basic support for this today, they still wouldn’t be able to fully catch up because they have no truly realized desktop/laptop OS so I’d live in a mixed ecosystem.
I have them paired to a few things, but only ever use them on my phone and laptop. That’s why I was so confused when it connected to my desktop, since it was last paired and actually used a long time ago.
I guess it’s a complicated issue for me, since they’re paired with more than 2 things but only ever connected to 2 things
That’s great! Competition in this space is working to improve both.
Instead of this stupid fanboy shit of Android vs iOS, we should celebrate an actual success in development.
Nobody cares nerds. Nobody.
I mean Android, and Samsung in particular, borrow from Apple all the time as well. Hell Samsung frequently bad mouths Apples for the anti-consumer choices one year then follows suit and does the same thing in a year or 2 themselves.
These kinds of takes are not the flex some seem to think they are in my opinion.
Yeah remember when Samsung charged you double?
No ?
Yeah me neither.
Eh? Their bog standard device cost is usually pretty on par. And Apple definitely isn’t charging you double.
Which one is bog standard? Samsung has over 12 different models on production that range from 150$ to 1900$, including two models with folding screens. Apple has
34 almost identical phones, they’re all overpriced hardware.The hardware is overpriced, absolutely. But it’s also typically better than Samsung.
By big standard I mean their “low end” device. The comparable Samsung of each generation is usually within ~$200 of the Apple model.
Better? The Apple hardware is always significantly worse than competition in the same price class. Most of the price of an iPhone goes to their excessive marketing and record profits, so they have to cut costs on hardware
You mean to say that the accidentally bendy phone is better than the actually foldable phone? Or that the accidentally bendy tablet is better than the tablet that is almost 20% larger, equally thin but somehow doesn’t bend?
Really? We going to ignore the accidentally not allowed on planes because they can explode phone?
Of course, as we know no Apple device has ever caught on fire, never.
So what you’re saying is, if you want advanced phone features sooner buy an Android, if you want to be subjected to dodgy business practices sooner buy an Apple
Lifelong iOS hater who moved to iOS 2 years ago here. They’re different strokes for different folks.
If you’re like I used to be, get an Android! Flash a custom ROM on it! All the freedom is amazing.
Now I have an iPhone. It may even lack some features Android has. It gets them slower. But the experience is ridiculously polished and consistent. This is a device I can’t have fail on me.
I still use Linux on my gaming PC and one of my work laptops. I love it. I love fiddling with things. I just want my phone to be an appliance like my fridge now. I buy it and forget it for the next few years.
My second work phone is an iPhone, so I’m a lifelong iOS hater but I’ve had a few generations of them. Let me tell you these things crash all the time, it is only slightly better at covering for itself.
I’d say a good negative use case really fits in the “reliability” category. So often at work, coders expect everything to always succeed, and have no thought towards what happens if one cog ever falls out of place; but good systems can react well or even help you get to what you generally need.
Sometimes I miss tinkering on my android phone, but I just get my fix handled with the homelab and keep my iPhone nice and stable. I wish it wouldn’t take lawmakers to get things like usb c and rcs, but hey still getting it done.
I mean, if you spent the kind of scratch on an android phone you would on an iPhone and then not fuck around with it, you’d have a similar experience on Android.
Years ago I used to flash roms and generally tinker until I decided I needed my phone to be stable and stopped. My Note 20 is polished and stable, no complaints.
My wife has always had iPhones. I’ve used both and find iOS frustrating. These days, unless you’re scraping the bottom of the barrel, it’s mostly about comfort and preference.
I’ve done that once. Then I made the mistake of updating past the Android version it came with. Suddenly it was no better than most of the cheap androids I’d owned before that. It was the Oneplus 7 Pro and it just started lagging like hell 2 years in.
I’m now 2 years into my iPhone 13 mini, have also kept up with software updates and it hasn’t slowed down at all.
To be honest as an Android user, if Apple makes their phone less locked down and give more affordable choices for phones I may try an iPhone, as I am a bit fed up with Android, and there are no other real alternatives.
Locked to trust them. I have been a long time iPhone user. Is by far the best mobile OS. Is overpriced , yes and since at this point of my life where I give less fucks , next one would be whatever good cheap crap I can get.
I’m happy with GrapheneOS on my Google Pixel. It’s basically Android without the Google crap. It’s not for everyone though.
That said, I’d really like a third option. iOS is too locked down, Android phones have short support cycles (getting better, and is a huge reason why I picked Pixel), and Linux phones have fundamental hardware and software issues. I’m sad Microsoft, Palm, and Blackberry all gave up, there were interesting things happening in the mobile space back then.
I switched to Graphene in December and I can’t say it enough, GrapheneOS is everything I wanted Android to be for the past 15 years.
Same. I thought it would be a bigger change, but it turns out I only need 5-6 apps from the Play store, and 3 need Google Play services. I only need those periodically, so I leave them in a separate profile.
My main profile has a bunch of F-Droid apps and a few manually side-loaded that update themselves. It’s pretty nice! I have also disabled most permissions on most apps, far more than stock Android lets me do (esp. sensors permission).
It’s pretty much what I want from Android. There are a handful of things I wish it did (I like shaking the phone on my Moto to get the flashlight), but all in all it’s what I expect from Android. I still want a Linux phone though.
I use Tasker to handle stuff like shaking for a light, enabling certain DND settings, etc.
I would love a phone that could dock and be a desktop replacement, I’m fine with using moonlight or something else to reach back to a server for games or bigger lifts than my phone can handle.
Cool, I’ll have to play with Tasker. I just got it recently and I think I have all my data synced over, but I haven’t gotten too far in customization.
BTW, do you know of anything like Niagara launcher? I liked that one quite a bit, but I didn’t find anything FOSS to replace it. The default is okay, I just want something that only lists a handful of apps to reduce clutter.
I just use the default one and put a couple folders on the home screen (one for stores, one for games, one for media, one for utility), then a couple widgets on the next screen over.
Are persistent notifications still a requirement for background apps, such as Signal? One of the reasons I switched to CalyxOS. Not the Signal persistent notification specifically, but it, in combination with all the others I needed running in the BG, made it very difficult to not miss new notifications. I like CalyxOS just fine, but I agree with you on GrapheneOS. I was very excited that it was exactly as I’ve always wanted android to be (but wasn’t), except for those persistent notifications.
I haven’t had to do anything special for signal, Home Assistant has some issues with permissions and not always reporting back if its on in the background. Still trying to figure out why its fine on mine but not on my son’s phone.
The fine tuned controls for things like network access, storage and contact scopes, etc. are just amazing.
You don’t have a persistent (albeit silent) notification for Signal and still receive push notifications? If so, my next OS may just be GOS.
The fine tuned controls are different than stock android? I thought GOS doesn’t alter the stock experience (more than is required to decrapify the OS)?
No, the only persistent notification I have to put up with is Tasker.
I honestly can say how far from stock it is because I have no clue when the last time I saw unadulterated Android (if ever lol), but it doesn’t have a lot of crap added to it.
That’s really great to hear. I’m currently on CalyxOS and, besides the Google crap added to stock, it’s very close to the last time I used stock (granted, it’s been a hot minute). Next phone will likely be GrapheneOS, as I believe my posture has shifted since I decided on CalyxOS, and the lack of persistent notifications for background tasks (such as Signal) was the main deterrent that allowed me to settle into a more relaxed posture.
iPhone SE is their affordable line. Don’t see that changing anytime soon as it sells well.
It still costs nearly as much as minimal wage in my country (OK, ~$200 USD less), I am not going to buy it anytime soon.
With or without the Google services, I bought my first Pixel years ago and have never looked back.
