Another great ploy by Microsoft to increase Linux adoption.
I just wiped Windows from my drive yesterday and committed to Fedora after dualbooting for 15 years…I’ve been maining Fedora for a while and always kept Windows around “just in case”, but never actually seemed to need it. This recall/AI spyware was it for me though. Gaming has been a breeze for a while on Fedora/Linux due to Steam/Proton…such a great feeling to finally be completely rid of Windows!
Stubborn? Windows 11 does not support my older hardware. With no other reason to upgrade, I’m not dropping that kind of cash just for Windows 11.
Regardless, I fully migrated to Linux last year.
Which distro did you choose?
Hopped around for a while and enjoyed Fedora the most. I’m now on Bazzite and love it.
Nice.
TF do they mean stubbornly popular? My windows 10 works perfectly fine and I have absolutely no reason to change anything about it. What is this weird ass ‘if you’re not upgrading, you’re being stubborn’ when there is no reason to and windows 11 looks ass on top of it
Umm maybe it’s stubbornly popular because devices running it can’t be updated. My OG surface book (a Microsoft flagship device for awhile) is great hardware, but can’t update to 11. My gaming laptop is even better hardware but doesn’t meet the win11 requirements. Because they are sealed devices. I literally couldn’t if I wanted to.
Agreed, and I would think XP was the stubbornly popular version. People were on there for years after end of support.
A large amount of people still clinging to Win 10 because the only other (Windows) option is upgrading to 11 doesn’t mean it’s “popular” so much as it means people want 11 even less than they wanted 10.
That’s why they want to “update” it. What they really mean is break it…
Bring back support for Windows 7 and Windows 10 will die overnight.
Windows media center alone is worth resurrecting win7 for.
Honestly the experience of Jellyfin, Tvheadend and Kodi is these days nicer than MCE ever was
Does the tv tuner and tv guide work? I tried a few alternatives a few years back and they were garbo. Wmc always just worked.
I get over the air guide in tvheadend, but you can configure it to pull xml based guides off the internet if you prefer.
Every person I’ve talked to IRL about Windows misses Windows 7. We didn’t realize how good we had it. Oh well, I’ll just switch to Linux
Windows 10 isn’t popular. It’s just that windows 11 is crap in comparison. Release an OS that isn’t predicated on what’s good for ad revenue and Microsoft’s bottom line and everyone will upgrade.
Microsoft made a big mistake with Windows 10: it basically works fine.
That’s what they’ll try to end now with buggy feature bloat shoehorned in.
They just want to make w10 as bad if not worse than w11. Because they want people say: I might as well use w11.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. I can enable some TMP in my bios to give me “windows 11 compatibility” but I have no reason to do so. If I could chill on Windows 7 forever I would
Tamper module proof
Better than a Toilet Paper Module.
So they’re ending support but will use the remaining users like test guinea pigs.
Great…
This is called the “RedHat CentOS” strategy
So no change whatsoever then? Ever since it released windows 10 patch testing has been “release to end user and see what the complaints are.”
Well it’s only Windows that’s complaining it can’t install Windows 11 on my Windows 10 laptop. I’m not mothballing perfectly good hardware just because Microsoft is having a tantrum.
Remember to switch to Linux once it reaches end of life so you don’t risk your security
win 11 adoption must be pretty bad if they have to do their new features beta testing on win 10 (which should be on a security updates/show-stopper bugfix only policy by now) instead.
Windows 11 adoption to business customers is really bad. Most of the adoption to 11 has been from people purchasing new home computers and being stuck with 11 (I have two win 11 computers now).
Since the bulk of Microsoft’s revenue comes from business customers, they have a huge impact on decisions.
At this point the only decision Microsoft can make is to write off win 11 as a failue. Resuming feature upgrades to win 10 makes business sense.
My company basically said they’re only going to update if they absolutely have to. IT and management are aligned for the first time in my entire career. There’s been talks of switching entirely to Linux and Mac. Microsoft really fucked up.
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For PC gamers Linux is the only alternative but I don’t expect a major migration. The last ten years have shown that the average gamer is willing to accept a lot of hostile behaviour from companies as long as they are able to keep playing their games. Microtransactions, Loot boxes, kernel level anticheat, and broken buggy releases haven’t killed that industry yet. Windows 11 is just another thing that will be loudly complained about in gamer circles but not much will come of it.
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This is it. Everything “just works” on windows. Until that exact same experience is available on Linux it will never take over. And no, I don’t mean “there is an app you can install for a distribution that makes it easy to…”. That is an immediate failure. It needs to be easy to do everything, out of the box, with no additional setup.
I say this as someone that uses windows, Mac, and various flavors of Linux every single day. I want this for Linux, but it isn’t there.
I use a modified Windows 11 OS that debloats the shit out of it, and disables all non critical MS garbage.
This is it. Everything “just works” on windows.
🤔
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Exactly this. I’m comfortable in both windows and Linux. I tried Linux as my daily driver multiple times on my main PC but it was always not worth the effort. I don’t have days of free time anymore to mess with Linux as my main OS. I put Ubuntu on my laptop and while it worked I was often spending days troubleshooting some bug, either with the touchpad not working or with with the disro itself trying to something as simple as an image preview when selecting pictures to upload to discord or whatever.
I’ve spun up dozens of virtual machines on my server at home and that’s where Linux just works. After I get it configured I’ve almost never needed to touch it again. Until Linux gets the basic user experience as easy as windows then people will stay with windows.
I don’t have days of free time anymore to mess with Linux as my main OS.
I get paid to deploy and troubleshoot Windows. I use Linux at home. Do I do this because after spending hours forcing Windows to behave as desired I want to come home and do the same to my Linux box? No, I do it because Linux is reliable and easy, and it’s not built on a premise that someone else knows how I want my computer to work better than I do.
Having to fight against what MS wants (or throw up your hands and accept it) is now baked into Windows. Even if I had to spend hours to use something else, I would.
I don’t intend this to disparage you, I say this because comments like quoted always ruffle my feathers. As if everyone who uses Linux has said, “Welp, I know this takes hours a day of my time to use, but dammit I’m just stubborn.”
NO, this is not what using Linux is like for the majority of people who choose to use it, even for gaming. If it’s like that for you, then you need a different distro, or different hardware, or you aren’t actually as comfortable with Linux as you think you are.
And it’s OK not to be comfortable with it, no one sprang from the womb knowing Linux - but to imply that Linux requires hours of time to use vs Windows is IME very false. Yes, it requires people to learn new things, but no one came from the womb knowing Windows either - most of us have just been exposed to it continuously and have invested that learning time without even realizing it since we’ve always been “forced” (to one degree or another) to use it.
So have you tried music production with Linux? Installing VSTs is exactly that: hours upon hours of banging your head against a wall with Wine.
There simply are usecases that don’t work out of the box with Linux that do on Windows because the companies don’t support Linux.
There simply are usecases that don’t work out of the box with Linux that do on Windows because the companies don’t support Linux.
I know this to be true, but generally folks who are in a corner case know they are a corner case and express it as such when they make such comments. 99.999% of people will never have to experience what it’s like to produce music on any platform, for example.
I tried to explicitly capture this in my comment:
NO, this is not what using Linux is like for the majority of people who choose to use it
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You’re wrong but okay. I’ve tried it on and off for over a decade and I always come back to windows. Not because it does everything I want but because it just works. As I’ve said, I used it for both desktops and servers and it’s always the same for desktops. Linux has always given me some sort of problem for every day use no matter the distro or hardware. I’ve used Debian, Ubuntu, red hat, and opensuse. First laptop I tried Ubuntu on ages ago the wireless never worked and dozens of attempts to fix it didn’t work. Tried it again a few years later on a gaming PC I built and had to tweak every individual game to get it to work with wine. Plus there was always some audio bug I had to fix with sound or microphone just not working. And I could never get the same FPS as in windows. Once that PC died I built another one with windows. My previous build I dual booted windows and Linux and I had to switch to an ultra buggy alpha version of Debian to get my 1080 to work. When I went to uninstall that distro because it was too unstable, grub nuked the boot record and I couldn’t even get back into windows despite all the attempts I made to repair the MBR.
This is all coming from someone who is college educated in this field so no I’m not some random chucklefuck who doesn’t know what their doing. I really dislike it when you Linux fanboys just brush off legitimate critisms because you personally haven’t had issues. Linux is not a mainstream OS and quicker you guys accept that then maybe we can move past this bullshit of having a free and open source OS that is unfriendly to use and move in to fixing the issues that’s preventing people from switching.
Linux is not a mainstream OS and quicker you guys accept that then maybe we can move past this bullshit of having a free and open source OS that is unfriendly to use and move in to fixing the issues that’s preventing people from switching.
Man, I don’t care if anyone switches or not. Convincing people to switch isn’t something I consider any kind of priority, and I don’t think it should be a priority for anyone. Linux is here, and happily used by many without these hours and hours of problems, and it’s constantly getting better. It’s there for the folks who want it. Windows has been on a downward spiral since Win2K went EoL, and each and every year I’m more and more surprised by the abuse they heap on their users. But, it’s fine with me for that to be fine for some folks.
I disagree with the specific sentiment I quoted for the specific reasons I described. I don’t claim it’s for everyone, nor that corner cases don’t exist. It’s entirely fine for us to disagree on this.
Edit–
I went back to reread my comment to see what was so offensive or could have been taken so negatively. I do think I should have included a “probably” near the beginning of the sentence below. Aside from that, yeah.
If it’s like that for you, then you need a different distro, or different hardware, or you aren’t actually as comfortable with Linux as you think you are.
Well yeah Ubuntu is shit. I haven’t had nearly this many problems. I also don’t use the latest hardware which helps immensely.
It’s not just Ubuntu. “Just don’t use modern hardware” is not a solution.
Fedora, Arch, Void, and other distros with newer kernels have less issues with new hardware. By not using the latest hardware I mean hardware that’s been out a year or two. Not stuff that’s ancient. You probably won’t have any issues with the latest CPUs and GPUs on say Arch or Fedora, but it can be an issue for things like WiFi cards or on distros like Debian, Linux Mint, and Ubuntu.
“It works fine if you follow a 10 stage guide filled with terminal commands to configure it properly, which describes commands that are different in your distro.”
Cool.
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Honestly, I’ve had less issues gaming on linux than windows… unless your playing a game with anticheat where the devs break shit on major updates (though valve is usually quick and has a patch for proton within a day).
The most regular pc user probably only got a work computer that runs 10 or 11 and they will likely have no choice since most companies don’t support Linux clients. My work actually does which is neat. I would absolutely use Linux at work, if working with Windows wasn’t my job.
and yes, I know they are both based off Linux.
maybe pedantic, but macos is actually bsd based. chromeos being based off of actual linux(gentoo) is what has allowed them to slowly open it up to the point where you can actually install regular linux apps on it
slowly open it up to the point where you can actually install regular linux apps on it
The linux running Chrome OS is completely separated, by design, from the virtual machine that runs linux apps under Chrome OS.
My guy knows nothing about containers
Video Games.
Popular usage of PCs does not revolve around gaming.
It does in my house.
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My guy has been living under a stone for the past few years it seems.
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What is stopping anyone from selling a laptop with linux on it and as little support as they do for windows ?
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Because that’s 4% that is competition free. Not counting the majority of users who only need a browser and won’t be able to tell the difference anyway. Just call it anything but linux, so they have useful search results if they have any problems.
Nothing, and so they do. Dell will sell you an XPS 13 with Ubuntu installed. Lenovo will let you select Ubuntu or fedora in some models. System76 and Tuxedo will sell you a bunch of laptops only with Linux. Starlabs sells Linux laptops. KDE sells a laptop. Purism sells Linux laptops.
Did you just assume no one sells a Linux laptop?
Never saw one at costco or wallmart or staples.
I thought Google announced Chrome OS is dead. Don’t disagree with your other points though. Chrome is fantastic for somebody just needing something to check their email.
Is there a commonly accepted reason why Microsoft makes these big releases so different?
AFAIK macOS has relatively minor changes, in terms of UI/UX, from release to release (look at screenshots of the original OS X vs. the current macOS version). And Linux is entirely dependent on distro, but for me it’s just “has i3wm changed drastically? No? Great!”
My guess is that Windows just does it because they need folks to upgrade, and that’s the only tool they have to force people’s hands…
It’s a direct result of their corporate culture.
MS has different teams competing with each other, and keeping something running well for years won’t get you noticed for a promotion.
You have to do something new to get ahead, preferably more so than the other team working next to you . So that’s what everyone at MS is trying to do.This is why there are multiple Teams apps, multipe Skype apps, multiple current Office versions and multiple Microsoft login portals side by side now.
It’s why Outlook licensing has a different backend than all other Office apps.
It’s why there are several Windows development branches running in parallel, and several different systems handling updates.
It’s why there’s a dozen different overlapping M365 admin portals that keep changing their UI, and settings keep getting moved around between them.It makes absolutely no sense for the end user, but it makes sense inside MS’ internal corporate structure.
I’ll just jump ship completely and use my Linux install 100% of the time. If I need to use a more mainstream OS for some stupid reason I’ll just use my Mac.
Linux is still not there for gaming, that’s what holds back most of the people who bitch about windows. People who just use windows to browse and do spreadsheets they don’t care.
Gaming is absolutely there, if you want to say something about anti cheat and whatnot that’s fair, but my gamescope enabled, AMD fsr utilizing arch install is performance parity to Windows 10, if not more performant. I’m not giving up that performance gain for an insanely small handful of games. You do you I guess.
My VR library is only half on linux or less and 1 of my streaming QoL apps is not even in the list. After 4 days (non consecutive over a month or so), and several steam updates, I finally got room setup to run and installed a few VR games last weekend, now steam overlay would not load to start a game. I want to switch to linux fully, I have for 2 decades. It is getting there, but still many miles to go.
Even for AC, most AC is supported. Battle Eye and Easy Anti-cheat both work fine (with the proton patches that should be automatically installed). Maybe there’s some custom AC that doesn’t work, but I haven’t found it yet. I’d guess Riot’s doesn’t if you want to play Valorant or LoL and want to install their root kit. I’ve had issues with The Finals (who just took a long time to update EAC but works fine now) and Squad (which is using a depricated C function that isn’t included in glibc anymore, but is included with the Flatpak version of Steam so it’s still playable with that) but they’re solvable. I believe that’s all.
I think PC gamers tend to overestimate their importance in OS distribution these days - gaming on Linux is just as passable these days as on Mac, and there’s much more to PC use than only gaming for 90% of users.
I feel that PC use is more complicated than gamers/productivity - but having switched over full time this year, Linux clearly has some work to do so the average user doesn’t need to touch the terminal - but even compared to 10 years ago its infinitely more capable and user friendly.
Customers of paid software need to start either voting with their feet meaningfully, or lobbying to get software support on Linux if they want it - complaining that titles aren’t available for Linux and then continuing to suffer through windows instead of making that known to the devs is seen exactly the same way - a sale.
I certainly miss some windows only software - but I’m not going to be held captive anymore for programmes I paid for, that refuse to consider my needs, when they are a part of my wider usage and expectations.
We don’t, there are a ton of online games that will not work on linux. I don’t know why this is hard to understand. I love linux, but I have my main rig for gaming running windows, because it’s easier and games just work on it.
Yeah well, play the game that have requirements that you pc supports. It’s always been like that.
Huh? I do play the games my PC supports, which is all of them, because I on windows still…
Only reason I need Windows is for Flight Simulator. If it weren’t for that I’d be on Linux for sure.
Probably a sad attempt at adding “shiny” features to get people to upgrade to 11 once updates are no longer published for 10?
“We’ll get people hooked on these shiny features, 90% of which are not interesting. Then we’ll pull the update rug from under them. And bingo, they’ll upgrade!!”
Probably more like, “we’ll make Windows 10 indistinguishable from Windows 11, at which point people will have no reason to stick with Windows 10” (unless their computers can’t update to Windows 11, like my laptop)
Or maybe I’m just showing that I know nothing about how updates work and that I perhaps shouldn’t be commenting in a technology community…
Technically win 11 has the same main version number to win 10. They’re essentially different UIs with extra features in 11. There’s no technical reason why anything in 11 can’t be backported to 10 unless it requires a TPM (maybe)
Even 11 doesn’t require a TPM if you know what you’re doing.
They’re going to add things that make it worse and slower until you finally get fed up with it.
Your last paragraph probably applies to me too.
