The US president is expected to sign the order as early as Tuesday to seal the border with Mexico to migrants when numbers of asylum claimants rise above a daily threshold of 2,500.
But sure, both sides the same, if this time we let fascism win it will totally make us into a left-wing paradise, etc etc etc.
I’m voting Biden out of harm reduction because I don’t have the stones to walk away and be complicit in additional short term suffering/scapegoating/cruelty, but Biden just like Trump ultimately serves our owner class, and we need to collapse to have any hope of anything but living in this dystopic oligarchy.
The neoliberals and the fascists alike work to maintain the power of our owner class. We’re only permitted a vote on how to address the social issue symptoms of our rigged economic system. I’d rather we not address those symptoms with scapegoating and fear, so Biden it is.
Don’t mistake that vote for even beginning to solve anything though. This country is died under Reagan. Something new will eventually have to take its place for any gains to be made at this point, this corpse is too far captured, it has been reformed to maintain class occupation and maximum exploitation under both (D) and ® representatives, both legally bribed and fully owned when it comes to legislating and protecting the long con that is our market capitalist economic system.
When capitalist induced, reckless growth/metastasis caused climate change is thinning our numbers due to hunger/thirst/deadly weather, maybe then, far too late, we will finally unite against our common enemy in their towers, golf clubs, and guard gated communities.
Don’t mistake that vote for even beginning to solve anything though. This country is died under Reagan. Something new will eventually have to take its place for any gains to be made at this point, this corpse is too far captured, it has been reformed to maintain class occupation and maximum exploitation under both (D) and ® representatives, both legally bribed and owned.
I agree that voting is the minimum and will not solve any issues on its own, but we’ve been in worse spots regarding corruption, and still came out capable of reform. The fight isn’t over, and there’s more than a corpse left to fight over. The country hasn’t died under Reagan unless we’re willing to let it die.
Campaign finance reform has been a rallying cry of the progressive wing of the Dem Party as soon as Citizens United happened. We, as a society, must relearn the value of strikes and disruptive protests to succeed, but I believe do have a future still.
Vote Biden so elections keep happening and make change at your local level. Voting in the interest of the people in local races where your vote really makes a difference. That’s the only peaceful way to improve I know of.
I think the owner class has come to use false hope as yet another tool to keep us docile. Change can come… just keep supporting one of these 2 parties we pay very well, and be so patient you’ll die hoping!
Lots of little ways to manipulate hope. We love to crow about our right to protest, but the only “protest” allowed is non-disruptive with a permit out of eyeline of those your protesting in a designated protest zone so as not to… Gasp… disrupt commerce. That kind of protest is masturbation. Any real protest and we’d be killed just like all those places that don’t allow faux protest or real protest.
Why fight those you lord over, when you can manipulate them into fighting one another, and even profit off their infighting?
Lots of little ways to manipulate hope. We love to crow about our right to protest, but the only “protest” allowed is non-disruptive with a permit out of eyeline of those your protesting in a designated protest zone so as not to… Gasp… disrupt commerce. That kind of protest is masturbation.
That kind of protest is essential. Just because it’s not the only form of protest that should be pursued doesn’t mean it’s worthless, or not a major part of the solution. Disruptive protests are an escalation that should be used carefully.
In any behavior, you should ask yourself how you would like the government to act if it was your opposition doing the same. It’s my view that it is necessary for the government to take steps to disband disruptive protests, but that it is also morally correct to endure in making disruptive protests in the case (and insofar) you find it strengthens a just movement, despite government repression.
Any real protest and we’d be killed just like all those places that don’t allow faux protest or real protest.
We are a very long way away from ‘all those places’. Don’t confuse being bad with being equally bad.
I remember having hope, then being pessimistic, then learning to have hope again because there is no action without hope, and no progress without action.
Gotta hold onto something. Some of it is just a desire to believe in a better future, but some of it is rooted in a fascination with history. Everyone always thinks they’re living in the last days - if not in religious terms, in political ones. Every polity is on the cusp of dissolution in every era - but actual dissolution is comparatively rare.
We survived the early crises of 1790s, the oligarchic 1800s and 1810s, the struggle for democracy* (BIG asterisk) and against regionalism in the 1820s and 1830s, the anti-immigrant fevers of the 1840s and 1850s, the literal civil war and a Southern sympathizer in the role as president during the 1860s, the corruption and heightened partisan activity of the 1870s, the robber barons of the 1880s and 1890s, the labor upheavals of the 1900s, the free market fetishism of the 1920s, the depression and rise of fascism in the 1930s, WW2 in the 40s, the Civil Rights movement in the 50s and 60s, the Christofascist threat starting in the 80s, the militia movements of the 90s, the creeping security state of the 2000s and 2010s…
All great upheavals with the potential to tear the country apart, for better or worse (most of them with considerable overlap). All of them we’ve survived. And many countries alive today have similar stories.
It’s up to us, the Americans of our age, to ensure that the 2020s are remembered as a time of struggle against entrenched elites and the pushback inherent to that.
Well said. I hope time proves you correct, and will be there to support such efforts in the event they address the root problem: greed elevated to and conflated with virtue.
Yeah. It’s an ugly fight, and I don’t mean to say that we’re going to be linking arms with prominent Dems (at least not of the kind that predominates now) and sing-songing our way to socialism. But I think there’s hope in this country yet. I don’t think it’s dead.
And I think Biden, an unimaginative career politician concerned with his ‘legacy’, is much less of an obstacle to that hope than fascism.
When I think of the political changes in most of those eras, I think of a lot of fighting and bloodshed. I’m not here to tell you who to vote for or even whether you should vote at all, but what I will say is that fascism/not-fascism is never going to be decided at the ballot-box. It is decided in the streets, on the campuses, and in the workplaces. Vote if that’s what you want to do, but for fuck’s sake do not think that this election determines whether the US crosses the fascism binary.
but what I will say is that fascism/not-fascism is never going to be decided at the ballot-box.
I will tell you that fascism/not-fascism is very often decided at the ballot-box. Most fascists win some elections before taking power totally. The thing is that “Fascism vs. not-fascism” is a pretty fucking miserable thing to have to decide at the ballot-box, even if the correct choice is obvious - we must work elsewhere than the ballot box so that the next election we have is “Not-fascism vs. Not-fascism”
Vote if that’s what you want to do, but for fuck’s sake do not think that this election determines whether the US crosses the fascism binary.
I’m saying the elections follow, they don’t lead. If you’re in a political environment where roughly half the electorate is clamoring for naked fascism, you’ve already been boiling the proverbial frog for awhile. Electing the “lesser fascist” is not going to change the zeitgeist. Sorry if I was too obtuse previously, but we already in fascism. Yes, things can (and will) get worse, but this election will have minimal relative effect on that.
Yeah don’t bother engaging with the topic, or refuting the argument, or providing an analysis of how the policy can be improved, or a rebuttal, or a comparison to the previous policy or anything that shows us you understand why this is going into effect…oh wait, you can’t. That would require activating more than one brain cell. It’s probably easier to just call people racists. Let’s go with that.
the effect is the same, because part of the executive order doesn’t allow for people that crossed the border illegally to apply for asylum at all and generally makes it more difficult to apply for asylum in the first place. Biden doesn’t deserve defending when he makes the same moves as his fascist competitor.
https://lemmy.world/post/16146433
Here’s actual context for anyone who wants it.
But sure, both sides the same, if this time we let fascism win it will totally make us into a left-wing paradise, etc etc etc.
I’m voting Biden out of harm reduction because I don’t have the stones to walk away and be complicit in additional short term suffering/scapegoating/cruelty, but Biden just like Trump ultimately serves our owner class, and we need to collapse to have any hope of anything but living in this dystopic oligarchy.
The neoliberals and the fascists alike work to maintain the power of our owner class. We’re only permitted a vote on how to address the social issue symptoms of our rigged economic system. I’d rather we not address those symptoms with scapegoating and fear, so Biden it is.
Don’t mistake that vote for even beginning to solve anything though. This country is died under Reagan. Something new will eventually have to take its place for any gains to be made at this point, this corpse is too far captured, it has been reformed to maintain class occupation and maximum exploitation under both (D) and ® representatives, both legally bribed and fully owned when it comes to legislating and protecting the long con that is our market capitalist economic system.
When capitalist induced, reckless growth/metastasis caused climate change is thinning our numbers due to hunger/thirst/deadly weather, maybe then, far too late, we will finally unite against our common enemy in their towers, golf clubs, and guard gated communities.
I agree that voting is the minimum and will not solve any issues on its own, but we’ve been in worse spots regarding corruption, and still came out capable of reform. The fight isn’t over, and there’s more than a corpse left to fight over. The country hasn’t died under Reagan unless we’re willing to let it die.
Campaign finance reform has been a rallying cry of the progressive wing of the Dem Party as soon as Citizens United happened. We, as a society, must relearn the value of strikes and disruptive protests to succeed, but I believe do have a future still.
Aww yes, I remember having hope.
Vote Biden so elections keep happening and make change at your local level. Voting in the interest of the people in local races where your vote really makes a difference. That’s the only peaceful way to improve I know of.
Giving up hope is what the owner class wants.
I think the owner class has come to use false hope as yet another tool to keep us docile. Change can come… just keep supporting one of these 2 parties we pay very well, and be so patient you’ll die hoping!
Lots of little ways to manipulate hope. We love to crow about our right to protest, but the only “protest” allowed is non-disruptive with a permit out of eyeline of those your protesting in a designated protest zone so as not to… Gasp… disrupt commerce. That kind of protest is masturbation. Any real protest and we’d be killed just like all those places that don’t allow faux protest or real protest.
Why fight those you lord over, when you can manipulate them into fighting one another, and even profit off their infighting?
That kind of protest is essential. Just because it’s not the only form of protest that should be pursued doesn’t mean it’s worthless, or not a major part of the solution. Disruptive protests are an escalation that should be used carefully.
In any behavior, you should ask yourself how you would like the government to act if it was your opposition doing the same. It’s my view that it is necessary for the government to take steps to disband disruptive protests, but that it is also morally correct to endure in making disruptive protests in the case (and insofar) you find it strengthens a just movement, despite government repression.
We are a very long way away from ‘all those places’. Don’t confuse being bad with being equally bad.
I remember having hope, then being pessimistic, then learning to have hope again because there is no action without hope, and no progress without action.
Gotta hold onto something. Some of it is just a desire to believe in a better future, but some of it is rooted in a fascination with history. Everyone always thinks they’re living in the last days - if not in religious terms, in political ones. Every polity is on the cusp of dissolution in every era - but actual dissolution is comparatively rare.
We survived the early crises of 1790s, the oligarchic 1800s and 1810s, the struggle for democracy* (BIG asterisk) and against regionalism in the 1820s and 1830s, the anti-immigrant fevers of the 1840s and 1850s, the literal civil war and a Southern sympathizer in the role as president during the 1860s, the corruption and heightened partisan activity of the 1870s, the robber barons of the 1880s and 1890s, the labor upheavals of the 1900s, the free market fetishism of the 1920s, the depression and rise of fascism in the 1930s, WW2 in the 40s, the Civil Rights movement in the 50s and 60s, the Christofascist threat starting in the 80s, the militia movements of the 90s, the creeping security state of the 2000s and 2010s…
All great upheavals with the potential to tear the country apart, for better or worse (most of them with considerable overlap). All of them we’ve survived. And many countries alive today have similar stories.
It’s up to us, the Americans of our age, to ensure that the 2020s are remembered as a time of struggle against entrenched elites and the pushback inherent to that.
Well said. I hope time proves you correct, and will be there to support such efforts in the event they address the root problem: greed elevated to and conflated with virtue.
Yeah. It’s an ugly fight, and I don’t mean to say that we’re going to be linking arms with prominent Dems (at least not of the kind that predominates now) and sing-songing our way to socialism. But I think there’s hope in this country yet. I don’t think it’s dead.
And I think Biden, an unimaginative career politician concerned with his ‘legacy’, is much less of an obstacle to that hope than fascism.
Hear, hear!
When I think of the political changes in most of those eras, I think of a lot of fighting and bloodshed. I’m not here to tell you who to vote for or even whether you should vote at all, but what I will say is that fascism/not-fascism is never going to be decided at the ballot-box. It is decided in the streets, on the campuses, and in the workplaces. Vote if that’s what you want to do, but for fuck’s sake do not think that this election determines whether the US crosses the fascism binary.
I will tell you that fascism/not-fascism is very often decided at the ballot-box. Most fascists win some elections before taking power totally. The thing is that “Fascism vs. not-fascism” is a pretty fucking miserable thing to have to decide at the ballot-box, even if the correct choice is obvious - we must work elsewhere than the ballot box so that the next election we have is “Not-fascism vs. Not-fascism”
Fucking what.
I’m saying the elections follow, they don’t lead. If you’re in a political environment where roughly half the electorate is clamoring for naked fascism, you’ve already been boiling the proverbial frog for awhile. Electing the “lesser fascist” is not going to change the zeitgeist. Sorry if I was too obtuse previously, but we already in fascism. Yes, things can (and will) get worse, but this election will have minimal relative effect on that.
Jesus Christ.
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Removed by mod
Y’know, actually, since this is a ‘correction’, I have to admit I’m curious - what meme do you think I posted which justified genocide?
Really reaching, because you know you have nothing. Try again some other time. :)
Wow, I’m Lemmy’s favorite, and I’m a genocide supporter? Here I learned two new things about myself
Wow, I spend time making memes, and they’re racist boomer facebook memes justifying genocide? Here I learned two MORE new things about myself.
Oh look: another Lemmy edge lord that can’t engage with a single topic without having to resort to name calling and labels.
Yeah totally. Nothing edgier than calling a racist immigration policy racist
Yeah don’t bother engaging with the topic, or refuting the argument, or providing an analysis of how the policy can be improved, or a rebuttal, or a comparison to the previous policy or anything that shows us you understand why this is going into effect…oh wait, you can’t. That would require activating more than one brain cell. It’s probably easier to just call people racists. Let’s go with that.
deleted by creator
the effect is the same, because part of the executive order doesn’t allow for people that crossed the border illegally to apply for asylum at all and generally makes it more difficult to apply for asylum in the first place. Biden doesn’t deserve defending when he makes the same moves as his fascist competitor.