• peto (he/him)@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    For them the problem with fascism is that it is poorly marketed, rather than it being abhorrent.

    • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Do they have a problem with it?

      From the last three elections that have featured trump, it seems like the DNC loves fascism because it lets them run terrible candidates that spent decades trying to get to be president.

      It’s only worked 50% of the time, and a random candidate would easily win.

      So to me, it looks like the DNC was just waiting for a reason to run less popular and less progressive candidates.

      trump gives them an excuse to shout down anyone that wants to hold the DNC to any standard what so ever.

      • peto (he/him)@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        As I said, their problem isn’t that fascism is bad, it’s that they don’t like the word, or anything that looks like 1930s fascism. For them it’s a marketing problem that needs a marketing solution. How do we sell it to a country that hero-worships a generation that made war against it and first hand saw the evils it produced. Folk hate being called a fascist even if they fully support all the policies.

        • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Lets put things this way:

          • Neoliberalism wants that The State, which is led by people chosen by vote with the votes of everybody - rich or poor - counting the same (ish) to stop “regulating”, “interfering in the Market” and in general opposing the Power of Money. The Power of Money remember, is not at all equal for everybody, quite the contrary.

          So essentially Neoliberalism, which is what the Liberals who control the DNC want, seeks to replace Democracy - were the greatest power is the one controlled by the vote - with Oligarchy, were the greatest power is that of Money.

          Outside the moral arena, the only difference between Oligarchy and Fascism is that in the former the Pyramid of Power has the Moneyed at the top, then The State, then the riff-raff, whilst in the latter it’s The State, the Moneyed and then the riff-raff.

      • IcePee@lemmy.beru.co
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        7 months ago

        We see the games they play and it appals us. Unfortunately it’s the only game in town. To change the game, you’re not only fighting the DNC and RNC, but network effect and inertia. And some of us don’t have the luxury to risk it. Even if it leads to a better world.

        • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          And some of us don’t have the luxury to risk it. Even if it leads to a better world.

          To bring it back full circle:

          Poverty literally rewires our brains and makes us plan on very very short timescales.

          Feeling like you don’t have the luxury to plan ahead is both parties playing on normal human thinking to take advantage of you.

          They keep you poor, and you can’t see through their bullshit.

          Nothing will ever be fixed if we’re always ignoring the long-term and just taking any crumbs were offered now.

          We get the option of a shit sandwich or a single baloney sandwich a day.

          Obviously the bologna is better, but it’s not enough to live off of, we’re just going to starve slower.

          • IcePee@lemmy.beru.co
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            7 months ago

            The only disagreement I have is with the rather sweeping statement:

            They keep you poor, and you can’t see through their bullshit.

            As it makes it seem that the poor are ignorant, gullible rubes. Lack of money ≠ lack of wisdom, or insight.

            • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              As it makes it seem that the poor are ignorant, gullible rubes.

              Nope.

              Lack of money ≠ lack of wisdom, or insight.

              Lack of resources causes a focus on short term because it’s not safe enough to plan ahead because now is dangerous.

              That’s not a comment on any individual, that’s not even a comment on every human. Every mammal is like that, and I’m pretty sure other animals as well like lizards, birds, fish, etc.

              Being poor doesn’t mean you started off dumb, but it literally drops your IQ almost an entire standard deviation

              In a 2013 study published in Science, researchers from the University of Warwick, Harvard, Princeton, and the University of British Columbia find that for poor individuals, working through a difficult financial problem produces a cognitive strain that’s equivalent to a 13-point deficit in IQ or a full night’s sleep lost. Similar cognitive deficits were observed in people who were under real-life financial stress. Theirs is one of multiple studies suggesting that poverty can harm cognition.

              https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/how-poverty-changes-your-mind-set

              That’s just how our brains work.

              You might not like it, but don’t try and treat it as some opinion that I have that you can just argue away because you don’t like it.

        • bl_r@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          7 months ago

          The problem with this mindset is the ratchet effect.

          If you see a fascist movement forming or a movement being coopted, you can’t just sit idly by, thats how you get fascism.

          You have to fight it. You have to treat the real problems that cause people to become fascists, and show people that you can make a better world. Not by debating people in the market place of ideas, that’s a liberal pipe dream when fascists only use the rules as a bludgeon. But by actually building one inside the shell of the systems that are currently here.

          The DNC is unwilling to fight fascists, and completely willing to allow people fighting it to get crushed by their authoritarian beliefs.

          The DNC would rather give us moderates than a candidate that will bring people to the polls on the threat that the other one is a fascist

          • IcePee@lemmy.beru.co
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            7 months ago

            I take your point. However, fascists are not the only movement that can co-opt. I didn’t say the DNC has to remain as it is currently.

            The enemy wants you to throw your hands up and declare the DNC a lost cause. Not all of them are external.

            Be a royal pain in the ass, shout down the adversary, do sit ins, gum up caucuses and for heaven’s sake, throw out “servility politics”.

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Popular Fascism isn’t called Fascism. Its called Patriotism, typically with a sneer towards the Fifth Columnists and Country Haters who would dare question the innate reasonableness and fairness of the domestic system.

      Fascism is what happens in foreign countries. It Can’t Happen Here.