That is, do you feel like your worth as a man is related to your practical utility?
It’s a lot more related to my income. Nobody seems to give a shit that I have a lot of very valuable skills, because I get paid like shit to use only one of them, so my skills just must not be that good, right?
I think I have the corollary: I’m primary breadwinner, so that gives me a pass on some childcare. That makes me feel bad as a parent, but happy as an introvert.
Do you feel pressured to be a useful man?
Society believes it should have unfettered and unpaid access to male labor outside work scenarios.
The idea of unpaid gender-ed labor is generally fascinating, but there’s been an awful lot more work on quantifying the unpaid labor of women.
Some articles on the topic for anybody interested:
https://fredblog.stlouisfed.org/2020/03/calculating-the-value-of-womens-unpaid-work/ https://www.imf.org/en/Blogs/Articles/2019/10/15/blog-the-economic-cost-of-devaluing-women-work https://www.oecd.org/dev/development-gender/Unpaid_care_work.pdfI think this is an apple to oranges comparison. I’m pretty sure the OP is talking about job skills but the first article is talking about any and all house work. To make that a fair comparison you’d also have to include the labor value of men’s house work too (shared with the spouse or a single man who does it all himself).
Definitely wasn’t trying to make any sort of comparison. I think we should definitely do the work to quantify unpaid labor for men. Did a little bit of digging and couldn’t find anything super useful (I blame google). Did start reading the wikipedia page for Unpaid Work and thought it was worth sharing
Yes I do.
Let’s ask the opposite question… If you’re not useful, what are you doing with your time?
As much as I enjoy spending time in the ‘nothing box’ (i.e. doing nothing productive or of any consequence) I have an innate desire to solve problems, take care of my family and friends, make things better for them, and improve the lives of others in general. The solving of problems allows me to earn a living, yay for me. Everything else just gives me life meaning.
So I’ll say again… Where’s the glory in being useless?
We should reject models of masculinity that demand maleness be connected with performance. “Masculinity must stand for the for the essential core goodness of the self”.
Patriarchal masculinity demands that men perform a gender role. True masculinity celebrates the dignity of humanity without condition.
So you’ve reduced masculinity “having testicles”.
You haven’t really answered my question. If you aren’t useful, what are you?
Human. Reducing humanity to usefulness only makes sense in a dominator model. Domination means extraction of utility from others. Maleness is good not for the reason that men are objects to be used. Maleness is good in itself. Patriarchal masculinity tells the lie that manhood is connected to a man’s usefulness, to his capacity to do violence, to fight wars, to take from those who are weaker or lesser.
I still feel like you’re missing the point. You must be useful in order to survive. Stripping away all human culture, in the wild, an animal that isn’t useful to itself or the group it belongs to is… food for other individuals and groups. Without utility (the ability to hunt/gather, use violence to protect itself, the group, or territory) an organism is… fertilizer. Even plants have utility – convert CO2 to Oxygen & water & fibrous material, procreate, provide habitat or food to other organisms (as a procreation method) – and there’s no patriarchy telling them to be productive or useful.
I’m not sure what sort of utopia you’re arguing in favour of, but I choose to be useful to improve my life for myself, my friends, and society at large. I choose to not be a burden to others wherever possible. I’m happy to pay my taxes and receive benefits in return that improve my life in return – clean water, roads, free education, social programs and healthcare, etc. I’m also happy that my taxes help provide these things who can’t immediately contribute to pay for these things – because having basic needs met serves as a foundation for society to grow and build upon.
The topic is about being pressured to feel like a “useful man”, which is a central concept of patriarchal masculinity. It’s great that you are a responsible person. But you are the one missing the point here.
I suppose I don’t get the idea that people are feeling ‘pressure’ that isn’t a normal and natural part of merely being alive. Unless you’re an animal in a zoo, where your needs are met automagically by a benevolent altruistic force that wants nothing in return, the pressure comes in the form of being hungry and wanting food, being cold and wanting warmth, being outside and wanting a structure to live inside.
“do you feel like your worth as a man is related to your practical utility?”
Where in your post do you talk about worth and how self-value is gendered?
Why are you acting like we are cavemen?
