Just putting this up to contrast with this post and because Eli Valley is a great political cartoonist.

  • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Sure, you don’t have to do it if you don’t mind fascism and not getting to vote ever again.

    As for everyone who ISN’T a fascism enabler, though? Bit of a moral imperative.

    • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Pretty fucking depressing that the anti fascism vote is also the keep supporting genocide vote. It’s a trolley problem but one track only has foreigners tied to it so we’re supposed to cheer for that option I guess

      • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        One track has Palestinians tied to it, the other track has more Palestinians tied to it, Ukrainians and probably others tied to it, AND American minorities by the bushel.

        If you’re looking for a point in history when there wasn’t someone getting hit by the trolley, you’ll be looking a while. We have to find the choice that is most achievable and least damaging.

        • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          One track has Palestinians tied to it, the other track has more Palestinians tied to it, Ukrainians and probably others tied to it, AND American minorities by the bushel.

          Yeah wooooo go Biden so proud 🤣 vote democrat, we will probably be responsible for less death and suffering. New slogan right there. “SLIGHTLY! LESS! DEATH!”

          It’s a complicated situation though golly who knows how to fix this problem

          We have to find the choice that is most achievable and least damaging.

          The smart people know that. Only problem is that not all of the people are smart and they all have the same voting power

          • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            vote democrat, we will probably be responsible for less death and suffering. New slogan right there. “SLIGHTLY! LESS! DEATH!”

            That’s the slogan for every positive action throughout human history. We don’t have the luxury of choices which hurt no one on the societal scale.

            • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              I’m not saying it’s a bad decision given the situation. I’m saying the situation is dog shit and perhaps will come back to bite us in the ass when “slightly less death!” isn’t the biggest motivation to get out and vote.

              I would be more sympathetic to your point if Biden couldn’t stop supporting this immediately with relative ease. Most voters are against what Israel is doing and especially democrats. It’s not like it would hurt his election chances. It’s not like the protests this has inspired are a good look anyway.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Most voters are against what Israel is doing and especially democrats. It’s not like it would hurt his election chances.

                That’s literally not true though.

                https://news.gallup.com/poll/548084/americans-divided-involvement-middle-east.aspx

                Americans Divided Over U.S. Support for Israel and the Palestinians Do you think the United States supports [Israel/the Palestinians] too much, about the right amount or too little? % Too much% Right amount% Too little% No opinion U.S. support for Israel U.S. adults 36 38 24 Republicans 26 37 37 Independents 40 36 22 Democrats 40 43 15

                Most Americans, including most Democrats, think that the current level of support for Israel is either correct or too little.

                • OccamsTeapot@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  More recent poll:

                  https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx

                  Overall 55% disapprove of Israel’s actions and only 36% approve, plus

                  Democrats, who were already largely opposed in November, are even more so now, with 18% approving and 75% disapproving.

                  And

                  Biden’s approval rating for his handling of the situation in the Middle East, at 27%, is his lowest among five issues tested in the survey.

                  • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    Approval of Israel’s military action is separate from approval for the current US support for Israel, as the numbers compared from November and March (from Gallup, in your poll) show (compared to the numbers, also from Gallup, in the poll I cited). 63% of Democrats in November disapproved of Israel’s military action, yet, in December, 58% of Democrats still believed that US support for Israel was either appropriate or not enough. Again, both of those numbers, from the poll you cited and the one I did, are both from Gallup.

                    Man, if your argument is that people are fucking insane and don’t pay enough attention to matters of civic importance, I’m onboard. But if your argument is that this is an easy win for Biden that he’s just not taking, I don’t think the evidence backs that up, as much as I wish it did.

        • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          If you’re looking for a point in history when there wasn’t someone getting hit by the trolley, you’ll be looking a while.

          “It’s the way we’ve always done it” isn’t a justification for continuing.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            Feel free to get back to me when you develop your magic “Everyone wins and no one is hurt” formula for actions on a societal scale.

            • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              It doesn’t have to be “everyone wins and no one gets hurt” in order to be better than supporting genocide.

              You’re seriously casting “stop supporting genocide” as a pipe dream for people with unrealistic expectations.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                You’re seriously casting “stop supporting genocide” as a pipe dream for people with unrealistic expectations.

                Congratulations. You’ve ‘stopped supporting genocide’ by witholding your vote for mean ol’ Biden. That’ll show him!

                The trolley now goes down the Trump rail, and crushes even more Palestinians, in addition to Ukrainians, American minorities, and god knows who else.

                Yeah, gonna go ahead and say that “CORNEL WEST COMES OUT OF THE DRESSING ROOM WITH A STEEL CHAIR!” or whatever the red herring candidate du jour is is a fucking pipe dream.

                • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  Congratulations. You’ve ‘stopped supporting genocide’ by witholding your vote for mean ol’ Biden. That’ll show him!

                  I’m still voting for Biden, just like I was last time you made this baseless accusation.

                  • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    So your argument, then, is that you will be withholding your “support for genocide”, by doing exactly what everyone who is “supporting genocide” is doing.

                    Wonderful. Glad we could clear that up.

            • Remmock@kbin.social
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              7 months ago

              I don’t really see you as being in a position to take a high ground on the basis of usernames.

              • Frog-Brawler@kbin.social
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                7 months ago

                When dumb assholes continue to say dumb shit, and their username happens to imply that their brain is somewhere other than in their cranium; it simply checks out. There’s no high ground. My username could be “shit-shingles” and it wouldn’t be implicit that my brain is elsewhere… “brain_in_a_box” on the other hand…