- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
Are there any legal experts that want to weigh in on this.
Can the police in New Zealand force unlock your device with your biometrics?
How does this work with NZ law?
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My autistic ass who doesn’t use bioauthenticators thought this meant I shouldn’t enter the passcode with my thumb or nose
Imstructions unclear. Phone in ass.
If you close your eyes the face id won’t work. I suppose the police could force you to open your eyes somehow but if they are going to do that they can force you to put your pin in too.
😌 “Look at this cute kitten” 😯
They would get me every time.
I mean, they can’t force you to give up something you know if really don’t want to. Torture tends to be frowned upon in government.
They can charge you for refusal and I’m pretty sure they have access to a bypass tool.
They can sure try, but at no point do you have to make it easy for them.
The law says you do have to make it easy for them, and that you can be sent to prison for up to 3 months if you don’t.
Let me clarify, legally speaking you do, but I am not arguing that. Practically speaking, that device can become fort Knox with a properly configured phone. Use a custom android ROM like grapheneOS and not use any services that can/will give you access to the content on your phone and that phone is practically useless to them. Even with a warrant, you aren’t beating today’s privacy and security practices without a major security flaw. If a person doesn’t want you to know what they have, they don’t have to give you anything.
Will their be consequences? Probably, but that may or may not be worth it to you if you are a privacy activist who doesn’t want to be incriminated on a legally but not moral basis. Or you could be a criminal with something you really want to hide. Doesn’t really matter in the end.
they don’t have to torture you. They can pressure you in all kinds of ways. Even mere threat of locking you up and throwing away the key would get you to unlock your phone.
Psychologically, the best chance they have is convincing you to unlock it. However, a privacy focused user that takes the initiave to use a custom rom like grapheneOS and not use any services that will compromise your data if requested might as well not have their phone exist at all. If they don’t want you in, you are not getting in.
Honestly if you think the cops are coming after you why not always use a burner phone.
That’s not really the point. Innocent people have the right to not have their things searched and dug through. Every person has some level of privacy that they want to keep. Let’s say you have nudes from your significant other and yourself all over your phone. You don’t want that information being seen by anyone else because it was meant for you and you alone. I guarantee your partner doesn’t want random people seeing them either.
It is well known there have been bad actors in the IT and police that will make copies of that for their own personal use while they are supposed to be doing something else. Would really want to risk that?
I am far more worried about people getting my code over my shoulder than a state actor.
That is an issue indeed.
I’m not a legal expert but as far as I know if the police are arresting you they can compel this in New Zealand. There is no difference in unlock methods. People get charges for not complying.
This page seems to back this up but it is old.
It links to the legislation which seems to support it:
A person exercising a search power in respect of any data held in a computer system or other data storage device may require a specified person to provide access information and other information or assistance that is reasonable and necessary to allow the person exercising the search power to access that data.
Effectively, if the police search is otherwise legal, then they can compel you to unlock your phone. If you don’t, you can get up to 3 months in prison:
178 Offence of failing to carry out obligations in relation to computer system search
Every person commits an offence and is liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 months who fails, without reasonable excuse, to assist a person exercising a search power when requested to do so under section 130(1).
However, section 130 (2) says:
A specified person may not be required under subsection (1) to give any information tending to incriminate the person.
But clarifies in 130 (3):
Subsection (2) does not prevent a person exercising a search power from requiring a specified person to provide information or providing assistance that is reasonable and necessary to allow the person exercising the search power to access data held in, or accessible from, a computer system or other data storage device that contains or may contain information tending to incriminate the specified person.
So basically, if the data used to unlock your phone can incriminate you, you don’t have to provide it. But that doesn’t protect you from incriminating evidence on your phone.
So I guess the moral of the story is that if you’re a drug dealer, make sure your phone password is “ImADrugDealer” and then you can’t be forced to provide that information. But I guess they can force you to unlock it without telling them the password? so I’m not sure what section 130 (2) had in mind.
(I’m also not a legal expert 🙂)
How are you supposed to prove that your password is self-incriminating without giving away your password?
How does it work in the US for pleading the fifth?
The moral of the story to me is leave your smartphone at home and just bring a dumbphone if you think you could be arrested.
My dumbphone has a broken key and it is infuriatingly hard to unlock though so it might antagonize them.
Haha I think it’s probably best not to antagonise the police if you can help it!
Exactly!
It antagonizes the people in my life; that’s bad enough.
This feels weird to me. If your password is “ILikePotato”, which is then used to decrypt a text file that contains “IStoleTheMonaLisaAndReplacedItWithAPhotocopy”, how is that any different in terms of “incriminating yourself” than if it was the other way around…?
And if you actually forgot your password, that’s 3 months jail for you, because they’ll hardly believe you? Better have just one so you’ll surely remember!
I wonder, if you use special markings to keep track of your illegal doings, and one of your notebooks is found during a search, are you required to assist in deciphering the contents of it? That’s basically the same thing as decrypting your hard drive.
I think the point is that you can grant them access in 3 seconds, it’s not like you’re giving an onerous task to someone.
While in implementation your notebook analogy may be right, in practice it’s more similar to the police searching your house and asking you to unlock the basement so they can search there too. It’s not exactly a big ask, it’s as simple as unlocking it with the key you have, so from a legal perspective it’s perfectly reasonable.
From a privacy perspective it’s not great, but I’d argue the control should be on when someone is allowed to rummage through your stuff, it shouldn’t matter if your notebook is physical or on your phone. Practicality changes this of course.
If you have the Mona Lisa in your house then letting the police into your house incriminates you, but the whole point of the search is for them to be able to find it.
I think the right to remain silent was meant to protect us from being tortured, not as a shield to hide things?
But will you be punished for not telling them that the key is under the mat? They will get in either way. They can get into your hard drive with brute force too, it’s just a wee bit more trouble for them.
I wouldn’t be too worried. 3 months in prison is what kiwis get for murder. You’re more likely to get a month holiday at home detention on xbox duty.
Forcing someone to unlock their phone after being arrested for something unrelated, is no different than them forcing you to unlock your house so that they can rifle through your stuff looking for additional things to charge you with. It’s immoral, and it should be illegal. The government found new ways to circumvent people’s rights with the digital world, and they’re walking all over people’s liberty.
For Android:
Power+Volume up > Lockdown.
Takes a fraction of a second.I assume iPhone has something similar.
