Can’t unionize if you don’t have the energy to fight.
Yep, you probably end up working with different groups of people too also making unionization harder.
Actually, that would make it even easier, in theory. You’d meet more of your coworkers and would be able to more easily spread the word and discuss pros/cons, etc.
How would you figure out who the plant is?
By not giving a shit. If they are spying on you, they are scared and you have all of the power.
No my guy, the hero doesn’t always win in the real world. This is where you get placed on PIP or start having performance issues, or get a promotion to a different team where there is a clash with your new manager.
Given any opportunity I will always be for a union but good damn if the cards aren’t stacked against unions.
That’s the difference between us. I’ve always found a way to get by and any work place or so called boss that wasn’t worthy of my time or energy, didn’t get that investment.
Maybe I was just raised different but I am more than willing to tell someone to fuck off if/when its needed, it of course starts more diplomatically than a literal middle finger but I was never afraid to escalate to an actual “fuck off, I’m out of here” when it was needed. It’s one reason why I work for myself, I only have myself and my bills to answer to.
There is a growing movement towards unions and other forms of collective bargaining. If you want to keep being afraid of your own shadow, that’s fine but don’t you dare do others the disservice of pushing them away from taking control of their own destinies.
Maybe
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If the union bosses are pricks or shills then you don’t have a union, but a glorified HR department. Something we’ve seen lately is that the unions still have to fight to get what they rightfully deserve. Unfortunately the fight to unionize is only the start of it.
This seems idiotic from the employer’s perspective. You’re limiting your pool of candidates a lot by requiring that their life can accomodate essentially 24 hours of possible shift time. Companies do shit like this and then complain “nobody wants to work anymore”
It is a selective filter. It seeks the most desperate because they will take any and all abuse.
They also leave the milisecond they can which means the company constantly has to find replacements and retrain them. Lots of resources wasted just to abuse people rather than maximize profit by treating people better.
Yeah well they have degrees or something that says it’s a good idea for profits or whatever and damn the consequences, so checkmate, prole.
This is true. I once had a boss with an MBA. I am highly skilled, had a decade under my belt at the company. She once almost laid me off one year because her and another middle manager thought I didn’t “fit with the team” any more.
Turns out I was just going through a divorce, was deeply depressed, and simply getting shit done and going home.
She knew but that MBA mentality just saw that I wasn’t joining extra calls, putting in extra hours, volunteering to manage projects, etc. It wasn’t even about department or company performance, we were in some of our best years ever. I discovered this years later after she was laid off, probably under similar circumstances. Fuck MBAs.
I find it awful how quickly extra work becomes normal, expected, minimum work.
Meaning they don’t have to worry about increasing wages or providing benefits for people who work there for longer.
I think part of the idea here is that people with options wouldn’t accept such an abusive schedule in the first place.
Slash education, raise cost of living, lower the minimum working age and forcing ppl to work shit jobs is actually viable.
I think there’s a political party whose whole platform is based on this for this very reason
As long as “temporary” foreign worker programs exist, there isn’t a shortage of labour as far as the elite are concerned.
A limited pool of local applicants is a benefit to them. Then they get to bring in foreigners who don’t know the value of their work in a western country and don’t know the laws that protect them, both labour laws and actual criminal laws.
People don’t want to work 3rd shift - the rest of the world (your family, sports…) all work 1st shift. 2nd shift is only slightly better. It is probably better for your life to work 3rd shift for 1 week of every 3, than 3rd shift constantly - those other 2 weeks you can live semi-normal and thus have friends.
It still sucks, probably the best compromise.As someone who was forced to do this for a couple months when I was in the Army, rotating shifts destroys your ability to get good sleep, its horrendous to actually experience. It took about 2 months before people started getting so sleep deprived that people started failing PT (physical training) tests and it took the brigade commander looking at our battalion and asking “wtf is going on over there?” and hearing what our battalion had done to our shift schedule and put a stop to it. He called over every single soldier who failed their PT test to hear our excuses, and when most of us were first time failures and we all had the exact same complaint, by the time he got to me, he was like “You’ve been on rotating shifts, unable to sleep, and were forced to take this test after a shift when you’re completely exhausted like everyone else?” “yes sir” “ok, don’t expect that shift rotation to last, I’ll be talking to your battalion commander after this. Send in the next person.” Dude was ready to just start ripping into us but changed his tune right quick after hearing about the fucked up shift schedule and lack of any common sense in the leadership’s ability to plan properly. One of the few times where shit actually rolled uphill. Suffice it to say, before I even finished the drive back to my barracks, I was being called by my platoon sergeant that we’d have to a new schedule tomorrow and to just show up for swing shift like we normally would be on.
In the prison I worked at we would usually rotate shifts every 6 months, but our commander heard complaints about people being on day shift for so long at one time that they were getting burnt out dealing with 90% of the problem times with inmates, and instead of changing it to every 3 months, changed the rotation to every 2 days. Literally, 2 days on Day shift, 2 days on Swing shift, 2 days on Night shift, 1 day off, then back to days. And that last day was getting off shift at 6AM, doing PT until 8AM, Barracks Maintenance until 10 AM, then because of the rotation, we’d have to be back in at work at 5:30 AM the next day, so our 1 day off a week was only 19.5 hours, and you’re exhausted but you can’t sleep yet, otherwise you’ll be up all night before work the next day, so you force yourself to run on fumes, getting a haircut, getting food and supplies for the next week, etc. Then sleeping, so there was literally never any time to relax. It fucking sucked.
It’s the kind of thing that sounds “fair” to a executive who’s been trained to think about human resources like any other commoditized cog, with no concept of human physiology or empathy.
those other 2 weeks you can live semi-normal and thus have friends.
I don’t think you’re thinking about how hard this will absolutely fuck over your sleep. There is no way you can be a functional human being for those two weeks with this consistent and drastic of a schedule change.
I’d rather work third shift consistently, I’m a night person.
It also makes it harder for employees to do things that would give them a chance at getting a better job. Can’t go to college anywhere that requires attendance as part of the grade if you’re on a shift like that. Also can’t get another job that might turn into a better opportunity, they won’t deal with your constantly changing availability.
companies don’t even have to worry about that shit anymore. things are so perilous that there will always be people desperate enough for anything no matter how shitty the conditions
They can rotate my balls in and out of their mouth
Gottem
Lmao
Industrial engineer here. I have no fucking clue. It was theorized it might be better overall like 30 years ago, but by the time i graduated college it was understood that so long as you have management during changeovers so later shifts aren’t left confused or unsupervised you get all the real benefit of rotating shifts without the tremendous downside of all your workers being constantly off and pissed.
Also they should be providing later shifts with free healthy lunches and other incentives to keep them in good health to reduce the costs to their bodies of later shifts. Late shift operators need extra assistance because they’re living against society and circadian rhythms. Poor health also reduces performance so this isn’t what they should do because it’s right, it’s what they should do because if they don’t they’re always going to be frustrated at late shift performances
I’d hazard a guess that financial impacts of reduced performance as a result of this torturous schedule pale in comparison to the cost due to injuries.
I’ve recently had to work a couple of overnight shifts when I was overwise working basically dawn to dusk. Staying awake isn’t that hard. Getting real sleep becomes the struggle. What surprised me though was the vertigo, constant low grade nausea, and dizziness that disappeared after a normal full NIGHT’s rest. I may feel like a night owl sometimes, but my body does not agree.
Probably. But it’s an issue of variance. You will get the reduced performance. And if you get an injury you’re in a real bad spot, but an increase in likelihood of an abnormal event with disastrous consequences is far more abstract to businesses than something like a reduction in performance.
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This is why the field of actuarial science exists. I bet whomever is insuring these businesses would be interested in all of these management attitudes and business practices.
Because we havent had a general strike in a while
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Having worked that specific kind of rotating shift, you still get the shift differential (a whole 25 cents for 2nd and 50 for 3rd, wooooo). That was also with a (neutered) union.
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It was probably more for better paid positions, but after three years sitting at the bottom I got kind of sick of the shifts and being treated like shit.
I work in an office now… still sucks, but at least I get to sleep overnight.
Because you’re not expected to have a home life that takes precedence over work anymore.
Rotating shifts sacrifice the employees everything to reduce staffing and training costs.
What I have gathered after seeing threads like this pop up on Reddit periodically over about 11 years, and most of the responses here, is…
Fuck if there’s a reason.
No, seriously. Pretty sure it’s become standard and as Capitalism and Management do, they follow whatever bullshit tradition exists.
That said, I personally have always felt factory and retail work fuck with schedules so much because it maintains control and limits sociability outside of work and work groups. Thus increasing retention by artificially creating social nodes we feel a part of and/or do not want to be removed from. Likely created by the same people who cut pensions and created things like Mining Towns.
Without knowing anything about the situation, my guess is that if you run a static 1st, 2nd, 3rd shift style rotation, you can pay market rate for 1st and 2nd shift, but you have to pay a premium for 3rd shift due to it being a less desirable shift for the general public.
With rotating shifts you just hire people and make them work the graveyard shift for no additional money, and get to argue with those that have to work it as “look, no one wants to work 3rd shift. That’s why we rotate it between everyone on. We’re a team here. We all pull our own weight”. Which is a bad faith argument, but they’ll happily use it on you and frame you as the over demanding worker, instead of the underpaid worker.
This is it. If they’re not technically third shift, they don’t have to be paid a shift differential.
They can claim everyone is “normal thing, payroll-wise” and the fact that a full third (or 2/3) of the work they do is “outside of normal” can be classified as “as needed” and “occasional other shifts as required”.
It allows them to be one thing on the books while being completely different in practice.
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Would be nice to know. Give them a call and find out the real offer
100% they fuck with schedules. Intentionally to stop you from being able to find or transition to a second job. Easier to pay bullshit wages if you have nothing to fall back on.
Sounds like they had to do that to keep the night shift people from quitting. Probably not a place to go work lol.
Are they just trying to destroy your soul and your health?
Yes,
But likely for a very stupid reason like 50 years ago some consultant had to give a plan to increase efficiency but forgot until the night before.
I used to work at a place with 3 shifts, and they rotated them because everyone wanted 1st shift rather than 2nd and 3rd. I chose to stay on 2nd because it paid a bit more and I don’t like getting up early. It would have been hell to switch every single week!
We switched every 2 weeks. Your sleep never adapted.
We did it monthly, if I recall. I rarely worked another shift, but when I did it was awful. I adapt VERY slowly to sleep schedule changes.
I think the big issue is that the rotation is every week. Every other week or more would be better.
In a strong union environment, this would likely get addressed with a combination of higher pay and seniority. Senior people choose their shifts and if junior members have to work night shifts, at least they get compensated.
Compensation and the piece of mind that they will get the prime shifts when they have earned the seniority. AKA there’s a goal to be had for suffering though a difficult situation. Otherwise hopelessness is a nightmare.
It’s because there aren’t enough unions in this godforsaken country.
French here, we got plenty unions and still a shit ton of jobs working the exact same way.
German here. Here rotating shifts in assembly, jobs is quite regular. We also have unions for the big industries that do rotating shifts.
Is it rotating weekly? If this is so common then what is the benefit of this? Like surely just keeping your employees constantly confused/off balance during their shift isn’t good
I had a job that rotated, but it was quarterly, and it was so nobody got “stuck” on nights/days.
The Job description OP posted is weekly rotating shifts. Quarterly rotating g shifts is a good way to prevent getting stuck in one shift without destroying your employees.
Maybe the problem is who owns the companies
If anyone’s willing to put up with that schedule you might as well try for being an air traffic controller. Way higher salary.
Worth noting that ATC is unusual in that there is both a maximum age that you can start (30) as well as a mandatory retirement age (56).
Sure, as long as you fit the desired demographic profile
Kia plant I worked at for 4 years was like this. Countless wrecks after shift change, untold divorces and ruined lives due to never being able to plan anything. Terrible
