I don’t understand how we’re all using git and it’s not just some backend utility that we all use a sane wrapper for instead.
Everytime you want to do anything with git it’s a weird series or arcane nonsense commands and then someone cuts in saying “oh yeah but that will destroy x y and z, you have to use this other arcane nonsense command that also sounds nothing like you’re trying to do” and you sit there having no idea why either of them even kind of accomplish what you want.
It’s because git is a complex tool to solve complex problems. If you’re one hacker working alone, RCS will do an acceptable job. As soon as you add a second hacker, things change and RCS will quickly show its limitations. FOSS version control went through CVS and SVN before finally arriving at git, and there are good reasons we made each of those transitions. For that matter, CVS and SVN had plenty of arcane stuff to fix weird scenarios, too, and in my subjective experience, git doesn’t pile on appreciably more.
You think deleting an empty directory should be easy? CVS laughs at your effort, puny developer.
It’s because git is a complex tool to solve complex problems. If you’re one hacker working alone, RCS will do an acceptable job. As soon as you add a second hacker, things change and RCS will quickly show its limitations. FOSS version control went through CVS and SVN before finally arriving at git, and there are good reasons we made each of those transitions. For that matter, CVS and SVN had plenty of arcane stuff to fix weird scenarios, too, and in my subjective experience, git doesn’t pile on appreciably more.
Yes it is a complex tool that can solve complex problems, but me as a typical developer, I am not doing anything complex with it, and the CLI surface area that’s exposed to me is by and large nonsense and does not meet me where I’m at or with the commands or naming I would expect.
I mean NPM is also a complex tool, but the CLI surface area of NPM is “npm install”.
So basic, well documented, easily understandable commands like git add, git commit, git push, git branch, and git checkout should have you covered.
the CLI surface area that’s exposed to me is by and large nonsense and does not meet me where I’m at
What an interesting way to say “git has steep learning curve”. Which is true, git takes time to learn and even more to master. You can get there solely by reading the man pages and online docs though, which isn’t something a lot of other complex tools can say (looking at you kubernetes).
Also I don’t know if a package manager really compares in complexity to git, which is not just a version control tool, it’s also a thin interface for manipulating a directed acyclic graph.
So basic, well documented, easily understandable commands like git add, git commit, git push, git branch, and git checkout should have you covered.
You mean: git add -A, git commit-m "xxx", git push or git push -u origin --set-upstream, etc. etc. etc. I get that there’s probably a reason for it’s complexity, but it doesn’t change the fact that it doesn’t just have a steep learning curve, it’s flat out remarkably user unfriendly sometimes.
git add with no arguments outputs a message telling you to specify a path.
Yes, but a more sensible default would be -A since that is how most developers use it most of the time.
git commit with no arguments drops you into a text editor with instructions on how to write a commit message.
Git commit with no arguments drops you into vim, less a text editor and more a cruel joke of figuring out how to exit it.
Again, I recognize that git has a steep learning curve, but you chose just about the worst possible examples to try and prove that point lol.
Git has a steep learning curve not because it’s necessary but because it chose defaults that made sense to the person programming it, not to the developer using it and interacting with it.
It is great software and obviously better than most other version control systems, but it still has asinine defaults and it’s cli surface is over complicated. When I worked at a MAANG company and had to learn their proprietary version control system my first thought was “this is dumb, why wouldn’t you just use git like everyone else”, then I went back to Git and realized how much easier and more sensible their system was.
No it wouldn’t. You’d have git beginners committing IDE configs and secrets left and right if -A was the default behavior.
vim, less a text editor and more a cruel joke of figuring out how to exit it.
Esc, :, q. Sure it’s a funny internet meme to say vim is impossible to quit out of, but any self-respecting software developer should know how, and if you don’t, you have google. If you think this is hard, no wonder you struggle with git.
it chose defaults that made sense to the person programming it, not to the developer using it and interacting with it.
Just because you don’t like the defaults doesn’t mean they don’t make sense. It just means you don’t understand the (very good) reasons those defaults were chosen.
Git has a steep learning curve not because it’s necessary but because it chose defaults that made sense to the person programming it, not to the developer using it and interacting with it.
Git’s authors were the first users. The team that started the linux kernel project created it and used it because no other version control tool in existence at that time suited their needs. The subtle implication that you, as a user of git, know better than the authors, who were the original users, is laughable.
No it wouldn’t. You’d have git beginners committing IDE configs and secrets left and right if -A was the default behavior.
No, you wouldn’t because no one is a git beginner, they’re a software developer beginner who need to use git. In that scenario, you are almost always using repos that are created by someone else or by some framework with precreated git ignores.
You know what else it could do? Say “hey, youve said add with no files selected, press enter to add all changed files”
Esc, :, q. Sure it’s a funny internet meme to say vim is impossible to quit out of, but any self-respecting software developer should know how, and if you don’t, you have google. If you think this is hard, no wonder you struggle with git.
Dumping people into an archaic cli program that doesn’t follow the universal conventions for exiting a cli program, all for the the goal of entering 150 characters of text that can be captured through the CLI with one prompt, is bad CLI design.
There is no reason to ever dump the user to an external editor unless they specifically request it, yet git does, knowing full well that that means VIM in many cases.
And no, a self respecting software developer wouldn’t tolerate standards breaking, user unfriendly software and would change their default away from VIM.
Git’s authors were the first users. The team that started the linux kernel project created it and used it because no other version control tool in existence at that time suited their needs. The subtle implication that you, as a user of git, know better than the authors, who were the original users, is laughable.
Lmao, the idea that we should hero worship every decision Linus Torvalds ever made is the only thing laughable here.
There are tons of wrappers for git, but they all kinda suck. They either don’t let you do something the cli does, so you have to resort to the arcane magicks every now and then anyways. Or they just obfuscate things to the point where you have no idea what it’s doing, making it impossible to know how to fix things if (when) it fucks things up.
Lol if an employer can’t have an intelligent discussion about user friendly interface design I’m happy to not work for them.
Every interview I’ve ever been in there’s been some moment where I say ‘yeah I don’t remember that specific command, but conceptually you need to do this and that, if you want I can look up the command’ and they always say something along the lines of ‘oh no, yeah, that makes conceptual sense don’t worry about it, this isn’t a memory test’.
These things are not related. Git uses the system default editor, which is exactly what a cli program dropping you into an editor should use. If that’s Vim and you don’t like that, you need to configure your system or take it up with your distro maintainers.
No, it should prompt you to enter your one sentence description in the CLI itself, and kick you out to an editor only if you provide a flag saying you like writing paragraph long commit descriptions.
I think in this case, “depth” was am inferior solution to achieve fast cloning, that they could quickly implement. Sparse checkout (“filter”) is the good solution that only came out recently-ish
I don’t understand how we’re all using git and it’s not just some backend utility that we all use a sane wrapper for instead.
Everytime you want to do anything with git it’s a weird series or arcane nonsense commands and then someone cuts in saying “oh yeah but that will destroy x y and z, you have to use this other arcane nonsense command that also sounds nothing like you’re trying to do” and you sit there having no idea why either of them even kind of accomplish what you want.
It’s because git is a complex tool to solve complex problems. If you’re one hacker working alone, RCS will do an acceptable job. As soon as you add a second hacker, things change and RCS will quickly show its limitations. FOSS version control went through CVS and SVN before finally arriving at git, and there are good reasons we made each of those transitions. For that matter, CVS and SVN had plenty of arcane stuff to fix weird scenarios, too, and in my subjective experience, git doesn’t pile on appreciably more.
You think deleting an empty directory should be easy? CVS laughs at your effort, puny developer.
Yes it is a complex tool that can solve complex problems, but me as a typical developer, I am not doing anything complex with it, and the CLI surface area that’s exposed to me is by and large nonsense and does not meet me where I’m at or with the commands or naming I would expect.
I mean NPM is also a complex tool, but the CLI surface area of NPM is “npm install”.
So basic, well documented, easily understandable commands like
git add,git commit,git push,git branch, andgit checkoutshould have you covered.What an interesting way to say “git has steep learning curve”. Which is true, git takes time to learn and even more to master. You can get there solely by reading the man pages and online docs though, which isn’t something a lot of other complex tools can say (looking at you kubernetes).
Also I don’t know if a package manager really compares in complexity to git, which is not just a version control tool, it’s also a thin interface for manipulating a directed acyclic graph.
You mean:
git add -A,git commit -m "xxx",git pushorgit push -u origin --set-upstream, etc. etc. etc. I get that there’s probably a reason for it’s complexity, but it doesn’t change the fact that it doesn’t just have a steep learning curve, it’s flat out remarkably user unfriendly sometimes.git addwith no arguments outputs a message telling you to specify a path.git commitwith no arguments drops you into a text editor with instructions on how to write a commit message.git pushwith no arguments will literally print thegit push --set-upstreamcommand you need to run if your branch has no upstream.Again, I recognize that git has a steep learning curve, but you chose just about the worst possible examples to try and prove that point lol.
Yes, but a more sensible default would be -A since that is how most developers use it most of the time.
Git commit with no arguments drops you into vim, less a text editor and more a cruel joke of figuring out how to exit it.
Git has a steep learning curve not because it’s necessary but because it chose defaults that made sense to the person programming it, not to the developer using it and interacting with it.
It is great software and obviously better than most other version control systems, but it still has asinine defaults and it’s cli surface is over complicated. When I worked at a MAANG company and had to learn their proprietary version control system my first thought was “this is dumb, why wouldn’t you just use git like everyone else”, then I went back to Git and realized how much easier and more sensible their system was.
No it wouldn’t. You’d have git beginners committing IDE configs and secrets left and right if -A was the default behavior.
Esc,:,q. Sure it’s a funny internet meme to say vim is impossible to quit out of, but any self-respecting software developer should know how, and if you don’t, you have google. If you think this is hard, no wonder you struggle with git.Just because you don’t like the defaults doesn’t mean they don’t make sense. It just means you don’t understand the (very good) reasons those defaults were chosen.
Git’s authors were the first users. The team that started the linux kernel project created it and used it because no other version control tool in existence at that time suited their needs. The subtle implication that you, as a user of git, know better than the authors, who were the original users, is laughable.
No, you wouldn’t because no one is a git beginner, they’re a software developer beginner who need to use git. In that scenario, you are almost always using repos that are created by someone else or by some framework with precreated git ignores.
You know what else it could do? Say “hey, youve said add with no files selected, press enter to add all changed files”
Dumping people into an archaic cli program that doesn’t follow the universal conventions for exiting a cli program, all for the the goal of entering 150 characters of text that can be captured through the CLI with one prompt, is bad CLI design.
There is no reason to ever dump the user to an external editor unless they specifically request it, yet git does, knowing full well that that means VIM in many cases.
And no, a self respecting software developer wouldn’t tolerate standards breaking, user unfriendly software and would change their default away from VIM.
Lmao, the idea that we should hero worship every decision Linus Torvalds ever made is the only thing laughable here.
Git is too hard for you. Please stop using it
Well, you’re free to try RCS if you like. It’s still out there.
There are tons of wrappers for git, but they all kinda suck. They either don’t let you do something the cli does, so you have to resort to the arcane magicks every now and then anyways. Or they just obfuscate things to the point where you have no idea what it’s doing, making it impossible to know how to fix things if (when) it fucks things up.
Mercurial is way better.
There, I said it.
You are not entirely wrong, but just as some advice I would refrain from displaying fear of the command line in interviews.
Lol if an employer can’t have an intelligent discussion about user friendly interface design I’m happy to not work for them.
Every interview I’ve ever been in there’s been some moment where I say ‘yeah I don’t remember that specific command, but conceptually you need to do this and that, if you want I can look up the command’ and they always say something along the lines of ‘oh no, yeah, that makes conceptual sense don’t worry about it, this isn’t a memory test’.
For a lot of experienced people, command line tools are user friendly interface design.
Command line tools can be, git’s interface is not. There would not be million memes about exiting vim if it was.
These things are not related. Git uses the system default editor, which is exactly what a cli program dropping you into an editor should use. If that’s Vim and you don’t like that, you need to configure your system or take it up with your distro maintainers.
No, it should prompt you to enter your one sentence description in the CLI itself, and kick you out to an editor only if you provide a flag saying you like writing paragraph long commit descriptions.
I think in this case, “depth” was am inferior solution to achieve fast cloning, that they could quickly implement. Sparse checkout (“filter”) is the good solution that only came out recently-ish