A top Hamas political official told The Associated Press the Islamic militant group is willing to agree to a truce of five years or more with Israel and that it would lay down its weapons and convert into a political party if an independent Palestinian state is established along pre-1967 borders.

  • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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    7 months ago

    I would personally reject this deal.

    The Palestinian people do not deserve to live under the rule of Hamas. In 19 years of living under Hamas, after all the money given to them by the US, France, the UK, Qatar, Iran, and even Israel, the only thing they built for the Palestinian people has been tunnels to commit terrorism from.

    • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I would personally reject this deal.

      The Palestinian people do not deserve to live under the rule of Hamas.

      Instead, they deserve to live under the genocidal tyranny of Israel. Clearly that’s the much better choice.

      • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        Why do all of you message me specifically to use the same dishonest bad faith debate tactics?

    • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      The Israeli imposed closure on Gaza began in 1991, temporarily, becoming permanent in 1993. The barrier began around Gaza around 1972. After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted. This has been a deliberate tactic of De-development.

      Gaza Policy Forum summary: Experts agree that Israel’s dual-use policy causes acute distress

      Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986. (Arguably, the economic terms of the Gaza—Jericho Agreement modify the situation only slightly.)

      • page 240

      In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60 percent over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50 percent decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (com- bined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

      • Page 402

      The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

      • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        What specifically in this wall of text is a direct response to what I said?

        • frazorth@feddit.uk
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          7 months ago

          All you said was complete stupidity. 19 years of rule under Hamas only produced terrorist tunnels?

          All of that is a direct response to 30+ years of Israeli genocide.

          • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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            7 months ago

            Building tunnels as the sole piece of infrastructure for your people is the sole response to a 30 year genocide?

            I don’t think that is true, and I don’t believe you think that is true either. It sounded good when you said it though, and I’m sure it felt even better.

            • frazorth@feddit.uk
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              7 months ago

              the only thing they built for the Palestinian people has been tunnels to commit terrorism from.

              I wasn’t the one who said that tunnels were the only thing they have done, that was literally you. But it’s also irrelevant because I wouldn’t expect any infrastructure works to be prioritised when a small country is under attack.

              When the IRA demanded their land back, we were allowed to agree with their cause of no occupation without saying that their tactics of bombing trains was a good thing.

              When the LTTE violently attacked Sri Lanka, people were allowed to feel for the ongoing Tamil persecution, without agreeing to the murdering.

              Why can’t I say that Hamas is a product of its environment, caused by the pain that Israel creates while also saying that the actions of Hamas are terrible.

              • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                7 months ago

                The money never made its way to the Palestinian people, is the point.

                Where did it go?

      • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I mean yeah, but why can’t we have a two state solution that gets rid of Hamas as a governing authority and also stops genocide?

        • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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          7 months ago

          The thing you will notice about these accounts is that they aren’t actually allowed to make unqualified anti-Hamas statements.

          Because they almost certainly aren’t real accounts.

            • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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              7 months ago

              Clearly humans are operating the accounts, friend.

              Are you being forced to jump to the defense of Pro-Hamas accounts, or is it a hobby?

              • ✺roguetrick✺@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Oh, it’s just that everyone that thinks different than you is under duress huh? Or paid? I guess I’m that case I don’t think you’re being vacuous.

                • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                  7 months ago

                  I have probably 15 accounts in my inbox accusing me, an explicitly pro-Palestinian person, of being pro-genocide, because I have made anti-Hamas comments. You being one of them.

                  Perhaps you have a better explanation. Is the movement so full of idiots who can’t differentiate between Hamas and the Palestinian people, or is something else happening here? You tell me.

                  • ✺roguetrick✺@lemmy.world
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                    7 months ago

                    The level of irony here is quite amusing. You’re complaining that you’re being accused of things you aren’t by saying that I’m accusing you of things I didn’t.

            • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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              7 months ago

              Probably thr same rate as you. Though somebody told me they aren’t actually paying you, just offering vague promises of virgins in the afterlife.

              • prole@sh.itjust.works
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                7 months ago

                Lol there is no afterlife my guy. So ain’t no promise of virgins is going to convince me to do anything.

                Why would I want to fuck virgins anyway? I’d prefer the ladies be somewhat experienced… Otherwise it’s boring.

                I wouldn’t accept payment for this, I have a real job that’s actually productive and makes peoples’ lives better in tangible ways. That’s enough for me. This is just bonus.

                Maybe that’s just a “leftist” attitude that you can’t comprehend.

                • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                  7 months ago

                  Are Pro-Hamas tankies actually part of the left though? I don’t know, man, so far I would say you are severely too rightwing for me.

    • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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      7 months ago

      After Ireland gained independence they fought a civil war. Same in countless outer places. The Greeks fought one while fighting for independence. I fully expect the Palestinians to do the same.

      The thing is: the Israelis don’t get to decide any of this. That what independence from Israel means.

    • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      The Palestinian people do not deserve to live under the rule of Hamas. In 19 years of living under Hamas, after all the money given to them by the US, France, the UK, Qatar, Iran, and even Israel, the only thing they built for the Palestinian people has been tunnels to commit terrorism

      An independent Palestinian state would give the Palestinian people a chance to throw off the yoke of Hamas.

      • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        I don’t believe that. Right wing fuckheads with weapons don’t generally give up their power, especially after they had already taken away the right to vote.

        A lot of dead Palestinians will be on your hands if you are wrong here. The price of being wrong is too high for me to agree with you, though I wish I could.

        • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          I don’t believe that. Right wing fuckheads with weapons don’t generally give up their power, especially after they had already taken away the right to vote.

          Man, if the choice is “right-wing fuckheads in a sovereign and potentially functional state” and “right-wing fuckheads in a Bantustan that’s currently being genocided by a foreign country, boosting the popularity of said right-wing fuckheads”, I think the choice is obvious.

          • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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            7 months ago

            I’m not personally willing to settle for a choice between genocides Palestinians or Jews, and with Hamas in power, you are going to get both.

            If Hamas wants to prove me wrong, and responsibly lead their people, maybe their political apparatus should stop being cowards, leave their Qatari skyscraper, and return to Palestine, and prove they want the responsibility of leading a nation.

            They don’t want that. Stop taking terrorists at their word just because they are the underdog.

            • PugJesus@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              I’m not personally willing to settle for a choice between genocides Palestinians or Jews, and with Hamas in power, you are going to get both.

              Hamas doesn’t have the power to carry out the genocide they want to. Israel does.

              They don’t want that. Stop taking terrorists at their word just because they are the underdog.

              Fuck man, I’m anything but pro-Hamas. I don’t think they’re making this offer in good faith, and even if they were, there are certainly more resolutions to pick from. I’m just pointing out that between the current state of affairs and a bad peace, the bad peace is preferable.

        • gimpchrist @lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Right-wing fuck heads with weapons? You mean like israel? And you say the price of being wrong is too high for you to agree with someone… there is no price for you!!! You live in comfort, not being bombed everyday. You’re an armchair critic who pays not 1 ounce of a price for your dumb opinion.

          • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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            7 months ago

            The price is more dead Palestinians and Jews.

            And no offense, but you aren’t paying that cost either. Doesn’t mean we deny the cost will be paid.

        • tocopherol@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          7 months ago

          Hamas has been given millions of dollars by Israel over the years while any other potential political group has been surpressed. Without Israel they may actually have a chance at forming alternative groups. There is already the blood of nearly 40,000 Palestinians on our hands.

      • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        …can you be more clear about what your comment means in reference to what I said?

    • Blackmist@feddit.uk
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      7 months ago

      Probably, but they don’t deserve to live under Israel either, and one of those is much more effective at killing them all.

      Two state solution has to be the way to go, after that the people can have a Palestinian Spring if they want and overthrow Hamas, but whoever comes after is likely not going to be much better. They never are.

      • Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        Yes, a two state solution is the only viable option. The problem is that Palestine never agrees to any of them. They won’t this time either. As far as Hamas is concerned they’ll only accept it if Tel Aviv is part of the independent Palestine. They regard the whole area as Palestine.

    • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      Ahh yes. Reject the deal, continue the starvation and murder of thousands and thousands of Palestinians by Israel. Because what would be more liberating than being murdered?

      I see statements like “Free Gaza from Hamas” to justify the continued genocide. It is no suprise, given that the Nazis wrote “Arbeit macht frei”. “Work makes free”,

      Twisting genocide into claiming it to be a liberation of the people they are genociding. Now i am not sure, if you belong to these bad faith people, but if you wonder, why you are getting backlash, it is because your statement seems to be advocating for that.

      • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        Why do you automatically assume somebody who is anti-Hamas is pro-war?

        Probably so you have an excuse to call people Nazis.

        I won’t be engaging with that nonsense. You can message again with an intent of more respectful dialog or you can be blocked.

        • Tryptaminev@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          If you are not arguing in bad faith, then you should acknowledge the consequences and the context of “not taking a deal from Hamas”. And these consequences are continued death and destruction. You didn’t address that context. Which is why i provided the context of these kind of statements by people using these stances in bad faith.

    • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      The Palestinian people do not deserve to live under the rule of Hamas

      Depends. Does conversion to a political party imply free elections and opposition parties to exist?

      • Ullallulloo@civilloquy.com
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        7 months ago

        No, obviously Hamas would not take a deal that is conditional upon [the UN?] removing them from power and holding elections.

      • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        Which terror groups that took full power restored the right to vote after having already stripped their people of that right?

          • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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            7 months ago

            So… You concede that there are no terror orgs who have expanded the rights of the people they control?

            • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              The basis of your statement is nonsensical.

              Terror organisations don’t control the rights of people. (If they did, then terrorism would not be needed)

              • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                7 months ago

                Which is why they won’t be handed autonomy over Palestine.

                Glad we are in agreement.

                  • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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                    7 months ago

                    Did they not take away the Palestinian right to elections back in 2006?

                    If you want to argue that Hamas has liberalized in the last 19 years, or even the last 6 months, by all means make that argument, but I am growing bored of the rhetoric I am currently being given.

    • TheFriar@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      I agree…but one thing at a time. When Palestine is free, then they can get rid of Hamas. But right now, they’re on the same team against Israel…against literal genocide. A violently oppressive fundamentalist government is obviously something to shed when you have a state to expel them from. But they’re living under the worst case scenario right now. Hamas is their only defense at the moment against genocidal colonialist state. Fighting a battle on two fronts is a recipe for complete destruction.