“It’s alright to vote 3rd party if you’re not in a swing state” or something like that. The Overton window shifted away from the idea that there’s some moral failing for voting for Biden because of the anti-voting astroturfing that happened recently.
Where are you getting this idea of anti-voting astroturfing? All the propaganda I see seems to be catered to getting people to vote for the lesser of two evils.
Also don’t get me wrong. I’m very much against not voting. I just don’t see any money being spent on pushing anti-voting but maybe I’ve missed it. 🤷
Russia is known to do this at this point. A sudden spike in talking about how voting for [current DNC candidate] is immoral usually fortells a report a few months later that it was started by Russians being paid to spread that message. The fact that lemmygrad, .ml, and Hexbear users suddenly started pushing it 2 weeks ago right after Biden started making serious progress against Israel suggests this is the case. I don’t know that Russian bots are using Hexbear as a staging ground, but even if they aren’t it’s still at the very least directly downstream from Russian propaganda.
You think “tankies” want trump? I’m going to need a source for that one.
The other groups I’m totally with you on. But I don’t understand why more moderate lefties are so quick to pretend that far lefties are fascist. Unless you meant something else by that term, I’ve only ever heard it used to describe socialists.
Iirc, Infrahaz is or was in favor of Trump, as was Caleb Maupin (who also notably worked for Russia Today) when he was still around. Also, Tankies aren’t socialists.
Generally, tankies are individuals who advocate for authoritarian regimes while claiming both they and the regimes are leftists. These regimes usually include russia, china, or North korea. Communism is a classless, moneyless, stateless society. Every single country that tankies usually advocate for fails in every single one of these criteria, and so I do not believe it is useful to refer to them as communists.
These definitions may be flawed, but they are what I am currently using, which was the question.
Liberals are just a hop and a skip away from being full blown nazis so they hate on the actual Left to try and convince people they are radical crazy people and the liberal nazis are the norm.
Liberals and fascists are in fact very, very different. Convoluting the two only serves to distance potential allies and elevate the standing of fascists.
They’re not actually the same, btw. The person’s absolutely cracked.
Edit: to be more specific, they just equated liberals with Nazis and then accused me of being a liberal (and thus adjacent to being a Nazi) because I disagreed. These are the kinds of people you should generally distrust.
While I don’t doubt that russia benefits from trump winning and Democrat voters not voting, the reason why hexbears (and other communists or socialists) don’t believe in voting is accurate, but shitty.
Voting for a communist party won’t work in america, since such a party will never be able to gain political power due to state repression stopping their movements, generations of anti-left propaganda, and probably a dozen other reasons that were debated before bush was even in office. While I don’t understand a lot of ML theory, I do know it’s old.
While anti-voting rhetoric already exists on hexbear, I think it’s a terrible place to try and reach people who would actually vote for biden since most instances aren’t federated. While lemmy.ml is federated, a lot of people are hyper-vigilant about tankies there, and therefore will distrust anything against the grain that ckmes from there.
As an anarchist, I don’t believe in voting either, but I’d be stupid if I didn’t recognize that voting does have consequences, even if they aren’t what I’d want. Anarchists often believe that means and ends are entwined, and therefore supporting a hierarchical system can never get rid of it, much less that supporting the state could ever topple it.
I agree with OP that it’s perfectly fine to not vote biden in a solid red/blue state, and since I live in such a state, I’m not voting for Biden. But I haven’t really seen an uptick in anti-voting posts (admittedly I have some hexbear communities blocked).
About 2 weeks ago (it feels like less, but that’s what my history says) there was a deluge of them in a few meme communities that I happen to frequent, notably on blahaj 196.
accurate, but shitty
Please explain. Edit: oh, do you mean they won’t vote because they can’t vote in a communist?
The accuracy comes from the fact that in the american system, there is not, and won’t be, a candidate or hopeful that can have an impact to bring america in a socialistic direction, or for the more electoral MLs, there is no communist/socialist candidate. Either way, most people on the far left, anarchist, communist, etc, also recognize that if there is a person of their values who gets into power, odds are they will either be milquetoast in the end and coopt the movement. Or if things are particularly bad, there will be a conflict due to such a candidate winning.
I think those people are silly. They are too far-sighted to consider the local scale of elections and the conditions that come from them, even though I generally agree with the critiques of the electoral system
“It’s alright to vote 3rd party if you’re not in a swing state” or something like that. The Overton window shifted away from the idea that there’s some moral failing for voting for Biden because of the anti-voting astroturfing that happened recently.
Where are you getting this idea of anti-voting astroturfing? All the propaganda I see seems to be catered to getting people to vote for the lesser of two evils.
Also don’t get me wrong. I’m very much against not voting. I just don’t see any money being spent on pushing anti-voting but maybe I’ve missed it. 🤷
Russia is known to do this at this point. A sudden spike in talking about how voting for [current DNC candidate] is immoral usually fortells a report a few months later that it was started by Russians being paid to spread that message. The fact that lemmygrad, .ml, and Hexbear users suddenly started pushing it 2 weeks ago right after Biden started making serious progress against Israel suggests this is the case. I don’t know that Russian bots are using Hexbear as a staging ground, but even if they aren’t it’s still at the very least directly downstream from Russian propaganda.
Kind stranger, I will keep an eye out for this. Thank you for bringing this to my attention and for talking with me like a normal person. 🙂
I hope you have a great day. 👈😎
It’s russia and their shills but it’s also tankies and other shills, fash, stooges, etc.
They want the fash cheeto.
You think “tankies” want trump? I’m going to need a source for that one.
The other groups I’m totally with you on. But I don’t understand why more moderate lefties are so quick to pretend that far lefties are fascist. Unless you meant something else by that term, I’ve only ever heard it used to describe socialists.
Iirc, Infrahaz is or was in favor of Trump, as was Caleb Maupin (who also notably worked for Russia Today) when he was still around. Also, Tankies aren’t socialists.
What does tankie mean to you? Genuine question I promise. This is what I see when I Google the term.
Generally, tankies are individuals who advocate for authoritarian regimes while claiming both they and the regimes are leftists. These regimes usually include russia, china, or North korea. Communism is a classless, moneyless, stateless society. Every single country that tankies usually advocate for fails in every single one of these criteria, and so I do not believe it is useful to refer to them as communists.
These definitions may be flawed, but they are what I am currently using, which was the question.
Liberals are just a hop and a skip away from being full blown nazis so they hate on the actual Left to try and convince people they are radical crazy people and the liberal nazis are the norm.
Liberals and fascists are in fact very, very different. Convoluting the two only serves to distance potential allies and elevate the standing of fascists.
Found the liberal
I guess so. Cut a liberal a fascist bleeds 😞
They’re not actually the same, btw. The person’s absolutely cracked.
Edit: to be more specific, they just equated liberals with Nazis and then accused me of being a liberal (and thus adjacent to being a Nazi) because I disagreed. These are the kinds of people you should generally distrust.
While I don’t doubt that russia benefits from trump winning and Democrat voters not voting, the reason why hexbears (and other communists or socialists) don’t believe in voting is accurate, but shitty.
Voting for a communist party won’t work in america, since such a party will never be able to gain political power due to state repression stopping their movements, generations of anti-left propaganda, and probably a dozen other reasons that were debated before bush was even in office. While I don’t understand a lot of ML theory, I do know it’s old.
While anti-voting rhetoric already exists on hexbear, I think it’s a terrible place to try and reach people who would actually vote for biden since most instances aren’t federated. While lemmy.ml is federated, a lot of people are hyper-vigilant about tankies there, and therefore will distrust anything against the grain that ckmes from there.
As an anarchist, I don’t believe in voting either, but I’d be stupid if I didn’t recognize that voting does have consequences, even if they aren’t what I’d want. Anarchists often believe that means and ends are entwined, and therefore supporting a hierarchical system can never get rid of it, much less that supporting the state could ever topple it.
I agree with OP that it’s perfectly fine to not vote biden in a solid red/blue state, and since I live in such a state, I’m not voting for Biden. But I haven’t really seen an uptick in anti-voting posts (admittedly I have some hexbear communities blocked).
About 2 weeks ago (it feels like less, but that’s what my history says) there was a deluge of them in a few meme communities that I happen to frequent, notably on blahaj 196.
Please explain. Edit: oh, do you mean they won’t vote because they can’t vote in a communist?
The accuracy comes from the fact that in the american system, there is not, and won’t be, a candidate or hopeful that can have an impact to bring america in a socialistic direction, or for the more electoral MLs, there is no communist/socialist candidate. Either way, most people on the far left, anarchist, communist, etc, also recognize that if there is a person of their values who gets into power, odds are they will either be milquetoast in the end and coopt the movement. Or if things are particularly bad, there will be a conflict due to such a candidate winning.
I think those people are silly. They are too far-sighted to consider the local scale of elections and the conditions that come from them, even though I generally agree with the critiques of the electoral system
So is the Genocide Biden is supporting Russian propaganda?
The genocide in Palestine will be worsened if Trump wins the election.
Please don’t misrepresent me like that again, and touch some grass.
How can it get worse? There is nothing left in Gaza… not a single building is habital anymore.