- cross-posted to:
- windows11@lemmy.world
- technology@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- windows11@lemmy.world
- technology@lemmy.ml
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So, wait, Mocrosoft is finally giving us a way to fully-disable automatic Windows Updates?
/s
That’s how I read it!
Full list from this comment on another thread: https://lemmy.ca/comment/8470544
ConisioAdmin.exe (Solidworks PDM)
EaseUS Disk Copy.exe (EaseUS Disk Copy Application)
ep_dwm.exe (ExplorerPatcher) Included since 22H2
iCloudServices.exe (iCloud files shared in Explorer via WhatsApp) from 23H2
RadeonSoftware.exe (AMD GPU perf settings) from23H2
StartAllBackCfg.exe (StartAllBack) Included since 22H2
Multi-mon + Copilot (Microsoft)
MergeSdb (Microsoft)
Intel IntcOED.sys (Intel)
Intel IntcAudioBus.sys (Intel) (%WinDir%\System32\drivers\IntcAudioBus.sys)
Realtek 8192su Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter (Realtek) (%WinDir%\System32\drivers\RTL8192su.sys)
They won’t give you updates if you have radeon software or intel config tool?
Or software made by Microsoft themselves!
Will it stop asking me to upgrade every month if I have one of these installed? I might need to get one just for that.
Hmm, interesting, do these all have explorer integrations? I know even a couple year’s old SolidWorks PDM does not work with Windows 11 because of the way it integrates with Windows explorer. a couple of the other apps there modify/integrate into explorer as well.
Realtek 8192su Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter
Wow, how did they break that? Signing issue maybe?
This stops Windows 11 from blocking the installation and lets you get the app back onto your PC. We’re not sure if Microsoft has fixed this trick, but it’s worth a shot if you want to keep using your favorite apps.
That’s mildly distopian.
This prevents your car from shutting itself off when trying visit certain areas on the map. We’re not sure if car manufacturers have fixed this trick, but it’s worth a shot if you want to keep going to your favorite places.
And only a little tiny bit adversarial.
This is what ive been saying about windows vs Linux for years.
Linux isnt necessarily easy, but its collaborative and everybody’s on the same side.
Windows is PvP, and now I’m seeing fucking Hangul characters in chat, and I’m afraid. I don’t even use it anymore.
Hangul characters in chat
You’re afraid of Korean speakers?
In a cafe? No. In a video game lobby? I played way too much StarCraft.
Lol. :)
My wife is Korean and I noped out of playing StarCraft when I visited her family. I also worked with a “minor-league” StarCraft player (played on Euro servers with a team) and a regular Korean guy, and it was always close when we’d do lan games at work afterhours (us normies would die off early and watch as those two duked it out).
So yeah, I get it. Koreans are hardcore…
Wouldn’t it be nice if you could just keep using Windows 10 forever, and get security updates for free?
For reference: Debian 6 which was the current release of Debian at the time Windows 10 was released hasn’t received official security patches 2016, CentOS 6.6 stopped receiving them 2022. Mac OS X Yosemite latest update was released 2017…
Yeah and? Debian is free, you can just upgrade to the newer version without paying a thing.
And upgrades tend to be pretty stable. You can still use whatever UX you were used to before, since packages tend to stick around quite a bit.
The issue with Win 11 is that it drastically changes hardware requirements and UX. That’s not an issue for Debian.
And because linux is 99% just the programs you install on it when you do upgrade to a new version you aren’t being forced into a new system. This is why distro wars are pointless.
You can also upgrade from Windows 10 to 11 for free.
No, actually, extra ads begging me to subscribe to my own computer are a cost.
downgrade*
would you like to explain to me how i install a tpm 2.0 module into my hardware for free exactly?
I cannot use my win11 laptop because they removed the language bar and switching keyboard layout is impossible. Unfortunately it’s something that I do on the regular since programming in my native layout is really difficult hunting down alt+some numbers for the {} and I need letters with accents like žšć when I write something
Windows 10 was released on July 29, 2015, Debian 8 was released on 26 April 2015, 3 months earlier. And you are comparing it with Debian 6, released 4 years earlier? Debian 8 extended long term support reaches end-of-life 30 June 2025.
You are right. I misinterpreted the information on wiki page. Debian 8’s free LTS tier ended 2020 and the Extended LTS continues until 2025. Extended support is a paid service though and costs a lot more than a single Windows license. Microsoft offers a similar (also paid) service.
It’s comparing apples to oranges, that said, the current version of Debian is much closer to the UX of Debian 6 than windows 11 is to windows 10
If the point of windows is you’re paying for an operating system and should then have better support than a free alternative, they should be able to push security updates, especially if they’re already committed to ensuring old windows app can still run inside new windows
They did provide security updates for several years longer than any competitor. Even (or especially depending on your point of view) for a company like Microsoft a user shouldn’t expect updates indefinitely at least not for the normal retail price.
And to be clear: I also don’t want to blame any of the named Linux distros. I recently migrated an old CentOS 6 server and it was about time. Sure there were still some security updates but several software components hadn’t received updates for years and there were a lot of workarounds necessary to keep the thing in a somewhat decent and modern state.
windows 10 was meant to be the last version of windows, its a bit disingenuous to compare the two that way
Ughh i hate reading this hoax. W10 was never the last version of windows. It’s a paraphrased report of one engineer at Microsoft that said that, but it was never in any official capacity confirmed
The Verge asked a rep at Microsoft, and this is what they said:
When I reached out to Microsoft about Nixon’s comments, the company didn’t dismiss them at all. “Recent comments at Ignite about Windows 10 are reflective of the way Windows will be delivered as a service bringing new innovations and updates in an ongoing manner, with continuous value for our consumer and business customers,” says a Microsoft spokesperson in a statement to The Verge. “We aren’t speaking to future branding at this time, but customers can be confident Windows 10 will remain up-to-date and power a variety of devices from PCs to phones to Surface Hub to HoloLens and Xbox. We look forward to a long future of Windows innovations.”
So they didn’t rule out branding changes, but the changes to Win 11 seem like a pretty big change from Win 10, which seems to go against the “Windows will be delivered as a service” statement. So it’s not just that one engineer, but probably a broader push (that may have been delayed or scrapped) to push gradual updates consistently instead of larger, periodic updates. I’m no expert, but I didn’t really see much difference in how Win 10 was released vs previous versions (e.g. XP, 7, and 10 all had service packs).
well the way they stopped making new windows versions after 10 (until now) seems to indicate that was the plan
W11 released like any other lifecycle, huff copium dude
no, i mean i believed that was the plan because they released a new version every 3 years, and then stopped for 10 years
Hahahahahaha, and you believe this?
frankly as long as my windows 10 license is valid in windows 11, i couldn’t care less.
But you still wouldn’t find me using windows 11.
Wasn’t the entire point of not using “Windows 9” branding and instead going straight to “Windows 10” from 8 that they didn’t want the last version of Windows to be 9, that they preferred a nice round number.
No. The point was they didn’t want issues from badly written software that used a “windows 9*” string to check for 95/98
nope. 9 is just an unlucky number and lower than competing OS at the time
the cool thing about debian though, you can just reinstall that shit. Or if you like flying close to the sun. Just change your apt sources. And hope nothing explodes.
My vps was two Debian versions late and both upgrade went super smooth. Did it fromy damn phone even.
i imagine it’s a bit of gamble sometimes, depends on how much software was deprecated changed or moved around, a lot can happen in a support period. Regardless spinning up a new install in an automated manner should be relatively trivial, and probably something anyone can accomplish for backup purposes.
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7 was better lol
I was already dubious about upgrading from 10 to 11 and this is final straw. I will have to look at Linux options and see if my Windows-only programs will run effectively under WINE.
I’m fucking out. I do a lot of basic IT work, including many fresh installs and new domain users, and I am so godamn sick of having to go through 5 dialogues every single time I open edge. For the local account. Then the domain admin account. Then the domain user account. Fuck this company.
As soon as I can afford to get an AMD GPU or do a swap with someone for my 1070, I’m gone. I used to love computers, but dealing with windows even on a home PC with no “problems”, it just feels like more work.
You can do it with an Nvidia GPU too, you don’t have to switch cards. I’m not sure where this idea comes from, that Nvidia doesn’t work on Linux, 50-60% of users are on Nvidia according to Steam.
It’s because out of the box there’s often issues. For example, my setup with a 3080 booted to a black screen at login. Only futzing in the command prompt via grub let me install the correct driver, and it’s been fine ever since then.
All drivers have to deal with fbdev and EFI DRM shenanigans and there’s no simple solution (if you insist on hiding boot messages behind pretty graphics, or having a graphical console, which most distros do unfortunately, God forbid you should kernel and system messages for 3 seconds).
Until the ancient fbdev stuff will finally be completely obsolete it’s all about compromise. Most often the distro will have a working default, in some corner cases it will backfire. Personally I set my console to text only so I don’t have to deal with any of this.
TLDR it can happen, and not necessarily on Nvidia.
Well shit, I’m not sure where it came from either, but I took it at face value. Thanks, I’ll be looking into this
You can disable or streamline that stuff with either group policy or registry keys.
I used to do the same work (several years ago) and I started researching fixes and writing scripts to speed up my work.
Make a to do list of what your computer setup process is. Figure out the earliest you can launch a script (netshare or usb). Then start writing scripts for your tasks.
Installing apps, file transfers and system configs.
Unfortunately our setup is not that sophisticated and neither am I. It’s a goal we’re working toward, but we’re just caught in a loop doing archaic shit because the workload is too high to fix it.
That seems like a lot of convoluted bullshit just to get your os to work, considering you need to update the whole thing every week.
You sure you haven’t tried arch? Openbsd? You sound like a typical user.
I’m talking about supporting an American enterprise environment that handles medical patient data. No Linux workstations really. Easier to comply with HIPAA that way.
Is it convoluted BS? Sure why not. But Microsoft services are really sticky once you get integrated at a large scale (5k workstations plus over 100 servers).
And when they withdraw support for that feature, do you think laws will cause all the computers to crash?
or you could just use linux.
Sounds like the same level of effort, and it doesn’t try and fight you every possible step of the way.
As mentioned above, this is corporate work and it’s not as easy to sell as Microsoft
yeah i suppose that should be a given though, frankly.
At that point why not run a WDS
Because you’re a level 1~2 technician hired in to support an enterprise windows environment and you have no choice.
Hit the nail on the fucking head.
Pop!OS has pretty good nvidia support. Try a dual boot.
I’m going AMD next as well, pop wouldn’t run games on my 3080, finally got some running on endeavourOS currently but pop and fedora had lots of issues.
PopOS has been running games fine on my 3070 for many years at this point. It might be worth another try.
I just tried in February but could be because of the protocol either Wayland or X11, I run 2 1440p 144hz monitors and I think Wayland struggles with that. Have had better luck with arch and KDE x11
It could be Wayland issues with Nvidia, I use three higher res monitors, but only 60Hz in X11.
Ah. I’m working with much older hardware.
oh for what it’s worth. I’ve been using my 1070 under arch with nvidia drivers for years now. It’s problematic sometimes, and configuration is a mess. But it generally works perfectly fine.
It’ll work more than well enough just to test the waters in linux though.
although, to be clear, i am still on X, i hear it’s worse on wayland. But I’d say X is worthwhile if you’re savvy enough. It’s an interesting piece of software history. (and it rarely updates)
This seems promising, do you have any resources I can check out to accomplish the switch? I’ve used some Linux, mostly Debian, so really don’t think it would be all that tough to go through.
uhm, me. Or any of the various communities and forums that exist around the internet here are bound to have helpful people. Personally, i bumped to manjaro for a week. And once i was comfortable with it, i learned how to manually install arch linux. From there everything seemed doable, and it pretty much is 4 years later.
I would say it depends on your level of tech savvyness though, if you’re highly savvy, and feel like you could manage it, then i’d say you should give it a shot. If not, there are plenty of simpler distros like mint that will keep your experience heavily curated, muta recently did a video about installing mint actually.
Personally i wouldn’t recommend manjaro, it’s not that it’s bad, it’s just kind of a mess. Long story. Installing arch linux manually or at least skimming through the guide gives you a great idea of what the general linux system is constructed of. Very useful if you ever run into problems with GRUB or something.
If you’ve used debian before and managed, you’d probably be fine, debian is a great choice for a workstation if you just don’t want to think about it very much. It’ll have a lot of old software, but it’s incredibly stable. IMO, the best advice i can give is to spin up a vm, fuck around, and see what you like. Linux is about choice, exercising it is part of the process.
Oh uh, just don’t dualboot with windows, windows has a nasty propensity for nuking disks randomly sometimes, every so often a windows update will wipeout grub (it’s an easy fix but annoying and pretty daunting, if you’ve never done it before) on installs, it can sometime overwrite drives to place a bootloader there, i have no idea why.
You could check out distros like mint, zorinOS, fedora, popos, and Nobara. I think all of those will come with nvidia drivers so you don’t have to set them up manually. Nobara in particular is set up for gaming out of the box, I don’t know how well it actually works personally. You could just install Ventoy on a USB stick then load up multiple Linux distros on it, then just select the one you one to try live at boot. Mint and zorin will be the most familiar.
Worth considering holding onto the Nvidia card to do a vfio windows VM as a fallback for stuff that doesn’t run well through wine/proton. It wasn’t too hard to setup and its nice to just toss all the games with kernel anticheat/adobe shit into.
If they’re games, protondb (.com) will tell you how well you can expect them to run. Other stuff, it’s often a case of search the web or try and see. Wine takes some getting used to, you’ll probably have to get your hands dirty and do a little learning.
Good to know. I don’t play many games, but do have some older ones from GoG that would be nice to keep.
Probably a good starting place would be to take the three apps you need most, and just search the web for guides to running them on Linux. That’ll give you an indication of how much work you might/not be in for.
e: also if a guide says “just run this shell script” even chance it’s not just that simple.
In the article all apps mentioned are very old versions. I just don’t understand, how exactly this was a final straw for you?
Because clickbait headlines are surprisingly effective.
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Because they shouldn’t be doing this at all. The versions of the apps in question, and even which specific apps, are complete irrelevant.
Because I haven’t yet updated from Windows 10 to 11 and had been putting it off. In the past week, though, I have seen a number of news articles highlighting issues I am going to have with Windows 11 and this particular article, indicating that they have been effectively leaving systems vulnerable simply because they have applications they don’t like installed is just not good enough. I’d understand it if they were saying “we can’t guarantee your OS stability with these apps” or “we can’t guarantee these apps will work anymore” if they were removing older API support, but this is ridiculous.
I’m sure you’re aware of it already, but WineHQ provides a good overview over which software runs well under WINE. :)
you should also have a look at alternatives as well.
Especially if you do any kind of productivity work. Like video editing or photo editing. Photoshop and premiere are just absolute garbage, even if it requires you relearning an interface, not being pestered with creative cloud is a massive advantage.
Oh and not having to pay for colors. That one is also pretty funny.
Turns out one of the video-editing programs I use (VideoRedo) has shut down anyway (I think the owner passed away) and so I’ll need to look for an alternative anyway - I don’t think I can activate it on new machines anymore.
there are certainly a few options. I’ve been using flowblade as of late, seems to explode saving projects when you update to a new version, and use an old project, for some reason. Other than that it’s been perfectly fine.
I hear people like kdenlive, idk, it seems alright. There’s also the free tier of davinci resolve. And im sure a few others.
Glad they have time to call out everyone else’s problems, yet Microsoft still can’t fix their broken jan win 10 update.
Is that the one where MS updated the recovery partition by including a file that’s too big for that default partition? I had to manually resize my recovery partition to fix that issue
Yes. Normally, the OS “fixes” this by making a second, bigger recovery partition, but that only works if you have the space for it.
Well I guess 60 GB wasn’t enough space for the 10mb update
probably requires you to have un-allocated space on the drive, which is even funnier.
don’t worry, microsoft never figured out how to write bootloader installation software.
It can not only, install itself onto a slower, hdd, but also completely wipe any additional drives you have hooked up at the time of installation.
The fact that this STILL isn’t fixed is baffling to me.
Is this still an issue with UEFI nowadays? The other bootloader should still be selectable in the bootmenu if it wasn’t overwritten.
well you see that’s the problem, windows doesn’t believe in this cute little thing called following standard, so sometimes it just fucking yeets that shit, taking the bootloader with it, because keep in mind, when you dual boot on the same drive. You usually end up using grub to dualboot between linux and windows, which windows doesn’t like.
And as for installs, some updates are basically installs, so who knows what the fuck kinda bullshit windows will be doing then. And like i said, if you ever do a clean install on a system with other disks, you better hope you get lucky.
Wow, imagine using a corporate owned operating system.
Laughs in Ubuntu
laughs in another corporate OS?
You misspelled Arch.
You misspelled SteamOS
You misspelled Fedora
Wait… canonical?
Best Canon event ever. Using Ubuntu to escape macroshit’s garbage
Haha probably so. But they are a corporation
Imagine not being able to upgrade your Linux because you have modified YOUR system to suit YOUR needs. Fuck them…
But if those modifications were known to cause the system to brick after you update, wouldn’t it be really nice if it stopped you from doing it?
And not just “yeah we know having done x will cause a bootloop after update, if you don’t know to uninstall/fix it it first, too bad.”idk maybe if you can detec the specific issue, you should maybe like, tell the user.
I feel bad for Windows users, they just can’t catch a break can they?
It was already bad enough that we’re stuck trying to use a trash OS to run our games and soul-sucking corporate crap, but now we have to ditch our customization tools to get updates that we need?
Thank goodness I mostly just use Linux.
If only others had access to Linux, I really feel bad for them. :)
What apps and links please? Just so I know what not to download.
::: (Yes I know its in the article…) :::
ConisioAdmin.exe (Solidworks PDM) EaseUS Disk Copy.exe (EaseUS Disk Copy Application) ep_dwm.exe (ExplorerPatcher) Included since 22H2 iCloudServices.exe (iCloud files shared in Explorer via WhatsApp) from 23H2 RadeonSoftware.exe (AMD GPU perf settings) from23H2 StartAllBackCfg.exe (StartAllBack) Included since 22H2 Multi-mon + Copilot (Microsoft) MergeSdb (Microsoft) Intel IntcOED.sys (Intel) Intel IntcAudioBus.sys (Intel) (%WinDir%\System32\drivers\IntcAudioBus.sys) Realtek 8192su Wireless USB 2.0 Adapter (Realtek) (%WinDir%\System32\drivers\RTL8192su.sys)Huh, I didnt expect to see Intel or Realtek stuff in there.
The iCloud one is funny and oddly specific. Its like a “fuck you for using both Apple and Facebook crap”
I’m just surprised their blocking their own software.
Excuse me what
It looks like they break Microsoft’s update mechanism somehow, and Microsoft won’t work around it. If it’s because they’d have to make special cases just for one app I get it, but it doesn’t seem like that’s what’s happening.
Hmm… I’ll have to look for these applications. Some of them seem ubiquitous.
Large companies do not shy away from making workaround for specific apps. Every large platform that I know of has some form of app specific workarounds to fix problems with popular apps. Graphics drivers, browsers, iOS, Android. I haven’t heard any stories about windows but given their commitment to backwards compatibility, they must have
Havent updated my v10 for 3+ years and dont plan to
Why are people still using Windows? Seems to me that the pain to use it is still not big enough. I welcome every move that increases the pain and drives people to better options.
My job includes programming devices from manufacturers that only write their software for Windows. There are entire industries that are blind to anything but Windows due to lock-in from one or more manufacturers of devices needed for daily operations.
Some consumer products are similarly locked-in due to supporting software. There may be alternatives for common tools, but device-specific things simply won’t work on Linux, 90% of the time. Sure, we can request the manufacturer support Linux in some way, but good luck getting any response let alone a working port.
Edit: Yes, it may be becoming more painful to use Windows, but until it’s less painful to take the Linux path for viable alternatives, nothing will change.
The Linux or macos path, if there is one is always less painful.
If there isn’t one, if the a manufacturer doesn’t support other os’ then you should demand this support from them. They will only listen to money. So take your money to an alternative or offer money for the support.
The point is that it’s not Linux’ fault that program x is not natively supported on Linux. It’s the programs fault and partly yours/your employers for choosing it.
No one has said it’s Linux’s fault… But unfortunately it’s still an issue Linux users have to deal with.
Also, not everyone is the CTO of their company to demand other suppliers. Most people are stuck with company policy that they have absolutely no say in it. Companies are not democracies.
Well, I have two of those. I guess I’ll just go fuck myself than, huh?
DeskModder noted that it wasn’t as simple as blocking an app based entirely on its name; for example, while VLC is listed in the big list of services and apps that are disallowed, it’s specifically listing a Windows 7 version of VLC.
Sounds like Windows has a problem with really old versions only. I guess you should be fine as long as you keep your apps relatively fresh.
People don’t read articles and you are asking them to keep their apps fresh? Just let them fuck themselves
Rule 1 in Reddit: never read the article
Rule 2: react to the headline
Since we’re on Lemmy, I thought I might get away with breaking the rules.
WUMT was good to me.
