Members of the House committee that investigated the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol have warned America for three years to take former President Donald Trump at his word.
Now, as Trump is poised to win the Republican presidential nomination, his criminal trials face delays that could stall them past Election Day, and his rhetoric grows increasingly authoritarian, some of those lawmakers find themselves following their own advice.
In mid-March, Trump said on social media that the committee members should be jailed. In December he vowed to be a dictator on “day one.” In August, he said he would “have no choice” but to lock up his political opponents.
“If he intends to eliminate our constitutional system and start arresting his political enemies, I guess I would be on that list,” said Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-San Jose). “One thing I did learn on the committee is to pay attention and listen to what Trump says, because he means it.”
Lofgren added that she doesn’t yet have a plan in place to thwart potential retribution by Trump. But Rep. Adam B. Schiff (D-Burbank), who has long been a burr in Trump’s side, said he’s having “real-time conversations” with his staff about how to make sure he stays safe if Trump follows through on his threats.
“We’re taking this seriously, because we have to,” Schiff said. “We’ve seen this movie before … and how perilous it is to ignore what someone is saying when they say they want to be a dictator.”
Non-American just double-checking I’ve got his right…
Private citizen makes actionable credible threat to unlawfully detain legislators, legislators choose to do nothing for about half a year before slowly murmuring without specifics other than “yeah he said it” and “I think he means us”.
You OK USA? Just checking in.
There is, unfortunately, no law against saying you’re going to be a power abusing jackass. And the Republicans have decided that if he gets into office, they’ll protect him from impeachment and removal no matter what. His lawyers have literally argued that the president can order assassinations of their political rivals.
So no, we’re not okay.
There is, unfortunately, no law against saying you’re going to be a power abusing jackass.
I would argue that Trump committed sedition and terroristic threats. The trouble is that everyone in the Federal government is either too chickenshit or too traitorous themselves to prosecute.
I see. I should have my lawyers argue buying a $1,000,000 house for $0 is reasonable, that way a deal for $500,000 is perfectly reasonable. In the same way that threatening to illegally detain is a halfway compromise between nothing and threatening murder.
And it seems that imprisoning political opponents goes beyond carting down a hill in a shopping trolley which is what we here overseas associate with “jackass”, but what do I know.
We are not okay. Nothing will happen to him about it, though. He can be literally court ordered to not talk shit about courtroom staff or families, then talk shit about them, and he gets nothing other than a reduced bond and an extension to pay that.
https://images.app.goo.gl/fQWwqgb2CPyjUDkM7
Jokes aside, if the US falls to fascism, it’s gonna be a massive problem for Europe. Imagine fascists in charge of the biggest nation with a history of colonialism, and the world’s largest stockpile of nukes.
It would be awesome if the other first-world nations started taking this threat seriously, before it’s too late.
We need the world to issue sanctions against the US. Please sanction us. We lost control of the government and need your help
Giving our oligarchs the same treatment as russian oligarchs would be a good start. Seize their property and assets wherever and whenever possible.
Certainly I think it would be fair that they pay reparations for their crimes.
Europe? Nuclear war is a threat to all animals on earth.
Very true. But I doubt elephants have the capacity to intervene.
As soon as Botswana delivers the 20,000 elephants to Germany, you will observe the world being reshaped by German war elephants.
Well, we have animals in Europe. Like, um… rabbits.
European here.
This comment takes assumption that by “US falling to fascism” you meant Trump taking control of the USA. Please ignore everything if I misunderstood.
Trump’s among the few US presidents that didn’t start a new war. Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN2A22QR/
He also scaled down wars in Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq. I AM NOT SAYING THOSE ACTIONS WERE GOOD OR BAD FOR THE USA, or for the rest of the world for that matter. And I’m really not qualified to discuss that.
This comment is ONLY a direct reply to a concern that Trump’s rule should have Europe worried in the sense that he’ll nuke us.
Maybe someone else nukes us as a consequence of his inaction, idk. But Trump nuking Europe is what you said, and I disagree.
I’m not talking about trump, actually. He’s just a carnival barker. If he wins the next election, he’ll do whatever his handlers want him to do, which will hasten things. But him losing will not stop the fascist movement in progress. There’s a group of actual fascists who have been working on this for decades. Some are in Congress, some are high up in organisations like the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society (writing bills and selecting judges), and others are consultants and advisers.
I’m actually concerned that when trump loses, people will think the threat has passed. His loss will mitigate it somewhat, but it won’t stop them. A large part of the threat is Christian nationalists in Congress, the Supreme Court, and in many other seats of power throughout the country.
Got it, ignore what I said then, I don’t have enough knowledge to talk about what you’re talking about.
We are not. Please send help
No we’re not ok.
On the one hand moderate and liberal voters, the DNC, establishment Democrats, centerist corporate news stations, past presidents and Biden himself are talking about how dangerous Trump is. He cannot be allowed to win.
Okay, sounds serious. Serious enough to make some big moves in order to get the votes necessary to win by a comfortable margin? If you check out Biden’s insistence on continuing to ship weapons to Israel the answer is “no”.
And really this encapsulates the problem with so called moderates and liberals. When faced with a choice between left or right when the center cannot hold they just fuck around, stall or outright sabotage leftist efforts. Effectively cementing a rightward victory and then blaming it on leftists.
It’s pretty pathetic how often they play this game and considering they actually do seem sincerely worried about Trump it’s bewildering why they aren’t seeking more cooperative efforts with leftists and progressives. They remain steadfastly confident stern lectures, as if leftists and progressives owe their votes, are all that is necessary.
No, we are not.
legislators choose to do nothing for about half a year before slowly murmuring…
Let me correct that for you: legislators pointing this out are prevented from doing anything because the opposing party has enough numbers to stop anything from happening that’d piss off their base regarding trump.
And no, we’re not ok
Oh look, yet another reminder of why the working class must never disarm.
Or why people need to get their shit together and get involved in politics
Why not both? I think everyone towards the left should consider some firearms. When history repeats itself Donald will be executing the socialists first. I do hope the dim bulbs of America get a clue before November, but I don’t know if we should trust that they will.
You do what you want, I’ll be looking at you guys from a first world country in the meantime, as if MAD didn’t show us how stupid the American live for weapons is.
It doesn’t help that the largest employers in the US (Gov & USPS) bar their employees from involvement even at the local level if anyone can announce their party affiliation.
If you go further down the list of employers, it’s a bunch of people who are mostly too overworked to have the time to vote…
Porque no los dos?
I agree with the ideals behind socialism more than any other political ideology. I own a gun. I don’t think it would do me a bit of good if a modern government decided I should be dead.
Why do people assume individuals are planning on defending themselves from the full force of the government? There’s a whole chasm of situations between “The power structures in place leave me in peace” and “The power structures in place have decided to move with their full weight against me specifically.”
Not if you’re just one individual, but the security forces of a state are always vastly outnumbered by it’s subjects. And just knowing that many average people are armed can make authoritarians hesitate I think.
Trump himself isn’t going to do anything.
Who would be the ones arresting them.
It boggles my mind that anyone would listen to anything that fat fucking twatburger says.
And yet…
He doesn’t need anyone to arrest his opponents. He just needs the fervent MAGA base to be whipped up into a frenzy like on Jan 6th. To be so angry if no LEO arrests Trump’s opponents that they go out kill them, because hey it’s totally cool now because Trump’s a dictator.
He’ll probably offer pardons to anyone willing to kill his opponents.
That’s kind of how the whole thing could/should fall apart. “Authority” gives a command and someone down the chain has to enact it, if that person or persons above the chain refused to act - there would be conflict, but hopefully the opportunity for realization that authority gave an objectionable command. The cynical take is that any number of enthusiastic appeasers would enact the command to engratiate themselves to the authority in the system, defeating the message of the refusal.
Unfortunately, much of American machismo includes stepping on others to get a better view, or to be viewed more prominently by favored authority. So to answer your question, there’s probably a dishearteningly large pool of people who would jump at the tasks Trump would dictate.
If he wins it will be the loyalist puppets who he installs in the DOJ and other top positions in law enforcement and the courts. This is one of his campaign promises.
federal officers directed by his attorney general
The FBI, DHS, ATF, or similar member of the alphabet army. The POTUS has a lot of minions with the authority to arrest you.
Which was the one shoving people into unmarked vans in 2020, DHS? That’s the one it will be, I’d put money on it.
I don’t think we ever got a real answer on that one, since the vans and the agents were unmarked. So just straight-up kidnapping.
Can the president simply order them to arrest people for no good reason?
Last time I checked, the alphabet agencies weren’t Trump’s “minions”, and they actually didn’t like him very much.
Can the president simply order them to arrest people for no good reason?
Yes. Just like you can. It’s not hard to give an order.
If you want to know whether or not the agency will listen and obey… that’s a whole other question and gets into dangerous territory when we know the POTUS loves being a dictator.
Last time I checked, the alphabet agencies weren’t Trump’s “minions”, and they actually didn’t like him very much.
Then you checked wrong. The POTUS is the head of the executive and the alphabet agencies are within said executive. POTUS is at the top.of their food chain, same as the military. As I said, though, it can get arbitrarily nuanced when you ask if a given agent will obey an illegal order or not.
Random federal agents like when Trump’s admin sent a bunch of anonymous feds against protestors to stir shit up and make secret arrests
His cult will eat that shit up, completely forgetting he promised to lock up Hillary Clinton and they all ate that up too.
Fortunately they are a minority. Unfortunately the US isn’t a democracy
Yup, I highly doubt he’ll actually do it. I really don’t believe he actually cares that much about politics, he just wants his name repeated in every household.
That said, they are credible threats, and they should be treated as such.
He might not care about politics but I can assure you he absolutely cares about his ego, and not being humiliated in legal proceedings.
He would absolutely lock someone up just for revenge, to demonstrate his power, and to have them ask him for forgiveness.
IDK, I think he’s a coward and a bully, and actually locking people up would be a big step for him. However, if he sees it work, he’d keep doing it.
But it doesn’t matter what I think he’ll actually do, what matters is whether the threat is credible.
Cowardice doesn’t really work like that though.
A coward who is POTUS wouldn’t be worried about locking up opponents.
One thing that has become very clear over the last several months is that Trumps only strategy to answer the many legal and criminal cases against him is to delay until he’s president. This pretty much means that if he does become president, then he must remain so until he dies or else he will go to jail.
This means, if he becomes pres there need be no consideration for repercussions once he’s no longer pres.
Nah, he can probably pardon himself and get away with the worst of it. The fifth amendment prevents him from being tried twice for the same crime, so he’ll probably be fine.
That said, I think he’s dumb or narcissistic enough to believe “his people” will keep him in office past his term. Why would they? He has, what, 10 decent years left (probably less), and they’re going to all gamble their political future on promises he hasn’t kept in the past?
I do think he should lose the election, and maybe go to jail (needs to go through court first), but I also think he’s not as big of a threat as liberals seem to think he is. He’s a buffoon, and his main downfall is that he thinks he’s smarter than he is.
“If he intends to eliminate our constitutional system and start arresting his political enemies, I guess I would be on that list,” said Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-San Jose). “One thing I did learn on the committee is to pay attention and listen to what Trump says, because he means it.”
This is from the article.
Are you claiming to have a better understanding of trumps mode of operation than someone who was on the Jan 6 committee, studied trumps behaviour and various utterances, and had the benefit of expert opinions?
I’m claiming that Rep. Zoe Lofgren and other Democrats on the committee have a lot to gain by spreading FUD and not a lot to lose. So it makes complete sense for them to stretch the truth.
That said, their job isn’t to determine whether Trump is likely to act on his threats, their job is to determine whether those threats represent s violation of the law and whether he violated the Constitution (and other applicable federal laws) on Jan 6. Whether he’d actually act on his threats is irrelevant.
I think there’s enough there to make a very strong case against Trump without getting into theatrics.
What charges will he have them arrested for? I don’t think that the president can just demand that people be arrested.
If he has the right people in place he can do whatever we allow him to get away with. No one is going to arrest the president that’s for sure. :(
They also can’t tell people to storm the Capitol and try to overthrow an election they lost.
They also can’t just take classified data when they’re voted out of office and sell it to the Saudis.
They also can’t fire the FBI director for investigating the White House.
They also can’t with old military aid from another government because they won’t fabricate evidence against their political rivals.
They also can’t collude with state officials to throw out votes.
They also can’t use campaign funds for hush-money payments.
There’s a lot a President can’t do that Trump has done.
He could blanket pardon for murders of targets in DC maybe
The president controls the executive branch, law enforcement is part of the executive branch, he can direct DOJ to make shit up. Even if courts eventually would rule they’re innocent it doesn’t stop the president from just continuing the harassment campaigns. See the red scare, etc.
And this is different than Assange and Snowden?
Yes, correct, this is different.
Different but also wrong.
No its not, the state using its power to silence those that expose government corruption makes it the same thing. Obama specifically targeted whistleblowers which exposed corruption.
Whataboutism
LMAO I love how all the libs who’ve been salivating at the idea that Trump might get jailed are now appalled at the idea that Trump would jail his opponents. This is what happens when you start weaponizing your legal system. And before you come here to tell me that the charges against Tump are totally legitimate, I guarantee you that when Trump goes after his opponents, he’ll have no trouble finding dirt on them because all US politicians are corrupt as fuck.
Letting corrupt politicians go to jail is the opposite of weaponizing the legal system. Letting ONLY everybody but the corrupt politicians go to jail is weaponization.
If your legal system went against all corrupt politicians then you might actually have a point here. However, selectively using the legal system to go after politicians from opposing parties is what weaponizing the legal system is.
My legal system is Sweden.
What’s selective about it? Who else has committed as much crime? Every time Republicans complain about this stuff and we look at the numbers the Republicans are always guilty of far many more infractions AND they always get away free in a higher percentage of cases. The reality is more prosecutions are needed, and you’re naive if you think otherwise.
Do the oligarchs often go to jail in Sweden?
We don’t have a lot of oligarchs
Unfortunately we have a right wing party in the government right now, but you’re talking about a country ranked 20 globally
he’ll have no trouble finding dirt on them because all US politicians are corrupt as fuck.
And this is the problem with "both sides"ism.
“Sure these Republican politicians are corrupt as fuck, but all politicians are corrupt as fuck. How do I know? Look at the Republicans!”They tried this with the whole impeachment of Joe Biden: start an investigation on bullshit and surely they’ll find something because everyone is just as corrupt as they are.
They found nothing.
If you think that Biden or the rest of the democrats are any less corrupt than republicans then you’re well and truly lost.
No, YOU’RE the one that’s lost my dude. They couldn’t even find ANYTHING on Biden but Trump has 91 felony counts and more trouble to come.
No shit we’re weaponizing the legal system against Trump. He’s a CRIMINAL. That’s what it’s FOR.
whatever helps you sleep at night I guess
Source?
Where’s the study on who’s more corrupt? Corrupt people tend to do things that make people think they’re corrupt
The study clearly shows whose interests the politicians in US consistently represent regardless of which party is in power. This very clearly demonstrates that both parties are just as corrupt. Let me know if that helped clear things up for you, or you need me to chew it for you a bit more.
Strangely none of that is about crimes being done by politicians.
You know, the thing this entire thread is about: crimes.
If you don’t think US politicians who execute the will of the oligarchy aren’t criminally corrupt then you’re childishly naive.
You should really stop using words when you don’t know what they mean.
criminally corrupt
What crimes are being broken?
The system being bad and broken doesn’t automatically make everyone criminals who should be in jail. Trump has broken laws and committed crimes. What crimes have his opponents committed to warrant being put in jail?
Oh yeah, all the people happy to see somebody gave justice for a series of criminal acts should be worried that said individual will assume power of the country and jail them as revenge. Totally a great thing.
You sure do love the idea of a dictatorship, as long as it’s YOUR guy huh?
Congratulations, this is literally the dumbest things I’ve read all day.
Who is ‘your guy’? Are you implying this person wants Trump in power?
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It is good to see that people are finally talking about this outside of twitter.
Biden and democrats won’t do shhiiittttt
Just like his owner Putler does in moscovia
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