I don’t think people on this sub use it, but it’s great news for us. The worse it gets the likelier people move on.
Looks like Discord will do a Reddit in the near future.
I recommend switching to Matrix.
the problem isn’t switching, the problem is making all the other people using It to switch too, not everyone cares about security or ads
There’s also privacy issues with Matrix:
- Account deletion on Discord: username becomes [deleted]
- Account deletion on Matrix: will not delete username
- GDPR-compliant account deletion on Matrix: will not delete username
Discord is also one (admittedly very lousy) company, while Matrix starts with the privacy issues and just gets worse
Edit x2: I can’t place a parenthesis to save my life
Go, change it! It’s open source.
Right after you promise to convince all their moneyed interests to accept those changes into the repositories they manage
i dont use it and im curious, what interests? i tought is was FOSS?
FOSS does not mean there are no business interests. Think about Mozilla Firefox, Postgres, RedHat, etc.
sure but they are usually more tamed. what is matrix doing exactly?
Shit takes time bro. We’re all trying not to starve to death here.
Yep most of the communities I like are on Discord nothing I can’t do.
most of the communities period are on discord
even the one that really have no business being in there and really should be on a forum
One of the interesting features about Matrix is that it supports some degree of interoperability. The Beeper phone app, for all the fuss about its ill-fated attempts to bridge to iMessage, can connect to Discord for basic no-frills text chat.
I refuse to install Discord on my phone but use Beeper for DMs and group texting.
I have happily succeeded. While there are some communities that are still on Discord, the vast majority of my friends are accessible on Matrix.
I hate this recommendation because Matrix is just a terrible user experience. It has basically nothing of value over Discord other than being open source. Which is important but it’s not enough to counteract the amount of basic quality of life stuff that is just absolutely trash garbage on Matrix. Stuff that no normal user is going to put up with.
If Discord does end up completely eviscerating itself the replacement will just be some new upstart closed Source program that is shiny just like how Discord took over from Slack it will not be the rise of Open Source because open source developers have no concept of user experience.
I mean we don’t even need to start talking about how bad all the client options are and how half the features don’t work and all that. You can look no further than the login system. Average users do not like want or accept having multiple options for logging in. There’s a reason that irc, teamspeak, mumble despite in many ways being objectively Superior especially in the case of the voice chats ended up relegated to only nerds like us. Because no one else is willing to deal with keeping track of servers to connect with or how to cross join or add users.
Same reason that Lemmy is like 90% technical users that are already invested in something like Linux. The average user got frustrated by how fragmented everything is how many duplicate channels and content you would find between instances and how difficult it was to search instances in the first place. I am here because I can ultimately work around those emoians, but the average person? Is not willing to and they shouldn’t have to
I’d love to be able to disagree in any of your points, but I can’t.
The vast majority of users want something that simply works, is polished and intuitively usable. Reading docs, remembering anything other than the bare minimum, running into issues that don’t get magically resolved within 5 minutes will turn them away forever.
Even people with a technical background will at least partially compromise and migrate towards the services with the most users to not isolate themselfs.
Matrix is neat, Lemmy is neat, Nextcloud is neat (well, in theory), Immich is neat, so many other privacy friendly solutions are neat. But they’ll always be irrelevant in the global context.
I mean with next cloud and immich it doesn’t really matter if they are popular. Those are services that you host for yourself for you to use generally by yourself.
Immich I could see someone using if they’re already familiar with Google photos, so long as someone else handled the setup and maintenance of it of course
Selfhosted services like Nextcloud/Immich aren’t nearly as dependent on a critical user mass like Discord/Matrix, but the principle is the same.
If you host for family or friends, they may even use it if you convince them to switch. But when the setup, which doesn’t consist of redundant instances and isn’t maintained by a small army of SysAdmins 24/7, inevitably breaks for longer than a few minutes, most will switch back to the easy, reliable option.
The vast majority of users want something that simply works, is polished and intuitively usable.
That’s exactly what matrix most popular client Element does.
It is often sketchy. The search function doesn’t work properly. Loading older messages often makes your client spaz out. There’s several glitchy commands. Spamming snowflakes can slow down your client to a crawl. A friend once crashed Element on my phone using a lot of nested quotes with muscle emojis. We had to spam other stuff so I could open Element again because the moment those messages started loading my client crashed again, preventing me from even changing the channel so I could open my app again.
I use Element and Matrix because it is the best privacy-respecting option, but it has a long way to go.
I am a big fan of Matrix and glad to see it getting some attention in this post. But it is definitely a bit rougher around the edges and esoteric compared to Discord. For more technically-inclined people, it’s fine. But it’s a bit much for some people.
I’m no fan of Apple (and don’t want to divert discussion here), but part of their winning formula is ease of use.
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That is why XMPP is still superior, both for hosting and usage.
2^32 different incompatible extensions for receiving images and an inability to receive messages when offline. Glorious.
Have you used this protocol at all? You CAN receive messages when offline, this is not IRC. And media uploads don’t seem to be such a problem.
Yes, I have. With various clients. It sucked.
Someone else mentioned Revolt.chat higher in the thread and it seems to be a promising FOSS replacement for Discord. It’s looking to fix some of Matrix’s issues like not having voice channels (voice calls on Matrix aren’t the same)
some new upstart closed Source program that is shiny just like how Discord took over from Slack
Guilded already exists. It’s a Discord clone with more features, but no one uses it. I assume they are just waiting for Discord to fail one day.
It’s because is owned by Roblox.
I didn’t look into it much other than trying it out for 15 min. Good to know lol.
I hate this recommendation because Matrix is just a terrible user experience.
Heck agree. In my experience, IRC is a much better alternative.
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Which is important but it’s not enough to counteract the amount of basic quality of life stuff that is just absolutely trash garbage on Matrix
The thread is about discord adding ads in their platform, so much of user experience… there’s no such trash on matrix
You don’t need to be a technical user to use matrix you simply don’t have to be closed minded
There is one huge thing of value in Matrix: e2ee.
Sadly, the normies don’t care about stuff like that, and the UX is indeed atrocious.
With how much they been cash grabbing, I’m not surprised.
If only I could convince 30 people I barely know to switch platforms.
The Discord server I spend the most time on is constantly looking for alternatives in case something better pops up or we need a backup.
I’m constantly looking for something that could replace discord for me, I need something like the discord screen/game streaming to consider changing apps.
I need something like the discord screen/gama streaming to consider changing apps.
I second this. It’s one of our most used features. Whether it’s streaming for team mates or for spectators there’s almost always 1 to 2 people streaming/watching.
Same. Matrix works like a charm.
I will gladly leave this shithole called discord, as soon as matrix start to support screen sharing
I actually havent tried if screensharing works but jitsi seems to work very well in there. Even the german government uses it so I suppose it might be able to do that.
I frequently use Jitsi w/screensharing. Been using it for quite a while this way with good results.
There’s a huge difference between streaming games and streaming PowerPoint slideshows
Obviously, yes. Whats your point?
Telling Discord users to switch to Matrix because “it works like a charm” is incorrect, considering how Discord is used.
“It’s tolerable if you can put up with the low bit rate and high latency” is more accurate.
Why can’t I click and drag rooms into the position I want them?
Ended up switching to alphabetical and numbering the rooms.
Good question. Have you checked if there is an issue for it on github? Thats how we improve FOSS software.
They already have
Pre IPO allocations were available two years ago.
Matrix is rough, but it can be the future. Revolt seemed more complete for the time being.
Looking at all those companies that moved their support to Discord.
But I thought we cold have free support in realtime with security updates for free forever?
It would’ve been very smart of them to have this ad change only affect business ownedchannels, and then open up a fee option for businesses to no longer have ads on their channel
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Some are and some aren’t. Like a lot of folks on here are here because reddit went to shit.
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while Lemmy participation has fallen off noticeably and continues to decline.
Fediverse Observer says otherwise: https://lemmy.fediverse.observer/stats
Active users have been steady since the Reddit migration, posts and comments per day each dipped but bounced back and currently growing.
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Stats aside, I can’t help but laugh anytime people suggest Lemmy is dying off or failing. Aussie.zone didn’t used to exist, and Lemmy.ml used to have like… one post a day? And it would be some tankie nonsense like “I’m a Russian living in Ukraine - Russia isn’t going to invade Ukraine, it’s all Western propaganda”
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MAUs peaked months ago and are trending down now.
Completely false claim if you look at the source in my previous comment. And no, I’m not looking at it wrong. MAU have been going up every month this year.
If you disagree with my assessment, then actually explain how it’s wrong. Don’t just claim I’m wrong without elaborating.
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Are you only looking at the last 6 months or something? Zoom out to take into account the entire migration from reddit (since that is the topic of this thread). The MAUs peaked last year and the overall trend since has been downward since.
Yes, I’m only looking at the last 6 months, because everyone already knew that the Reddit migration was a freak event. There was going to be a big influx of users followed by many of the new users leaving as things stabilize. Because of that, you have to filter out the Reddit migration and following 2-3 months to get a proper view on the trend of Lemmy’s userbase numbers. And from that data it’s slowly trending upwards, which is a good position to be in.
Whether they are slightly up over a few recent months is not actually relevant to anything I said, nor does it disprove the claiim that Lemmy is dying.
It is objective fact that it has declined and your own data proves it. The overall trend is downward.
By the logic you’re running off of, I can look at Lemmy’s entire history and conclude that it’s trending upwards because the MAU started out at 0 and it’s currently around 113k. You have to put an appropriate range on data or you end up with nonsense conclusions.
You ate trying to cherypick statistics here to push a narrative that anyone can clearly see is false if they just compare the height of Lemmy during the migration when it was the supposed “reddit killer” vs what it is today. It is objective fact that it has declined and your own data proves it. The overall trend is downward.
If you actually look at the numbers in my source, the peak MAU after the Reddit migration was 115k, while it’s grown back to 113k as of last month. That’s less than a 2% difference, with consistent growth over the past 6 months. Not only that, comments have gone up a lot in comparison to MAU, meaning that those users are also growing more active. These are the objectively factual statistics that you’re harping on about, and they point to Lemmy being a in good spot growth-wise.
You are essentially the equivalent of a climate change denier, pretending there is no temperature increase by zooming right in on the most recent data instead of looking at the bigger and more relevant picture.
And here is the unprovoked ad-hominem attack. Dude, you’re the one who tossed out a false claim with no data to back it up, and took it personally when someone asked you to back up your claims with a source and a decent argument.
But since you’ve already brought out the mud-slinging, I’ll bring my own: you’re behaving like the gamers that claim a single-player game is dead and therefore bad simply because the active playerbase has dropped after two months. Grow up.
Welcome to lemmy
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(Last I checked) From this spreadsheet, Discord is the fourth worst messaging platform in terms of privacy. Now a new row for “Has ads” will have to be added…
According to my iPhones privacy viewer it’s almost worse than Facebook.
Discord can do shit like this because they know many won’t ever try to use an alternative. You need more than just “open source” “privacy” or “FOSS” to convince people.
To be fair, there was a time before Discord. People once used MSN, Skype, Teamspeak, IRC, etc.
They shouldn’t get too comfortable with the idea that people won’t just up and leave.
There has to be something to leave for
Closest I know is Revolt.
Matrix
Discord has real advantages over many of those, and communities are slow to pick up and move. It’ll take either a very bad decision from discord or a good competitor. I want that competitor to be Matrix, but it’s far from perfect.
Well, adding ads could easily be that very bad decision, if anything can position itself as an attractive alternative fast enough
I don’t think it will take just one of those, it will take both.
This. Open source apps are generally awful at presenting themselves to a broader audience.
Even for me, who’s technical enough, an app being FOSS is not enough to even bother checking out. Yes, I’ve said it. Sorry, tinfoils, but I do put features above else. And, want it or not, general public does the same: if the featureset is not clear enough at first glance, and an app doesn’t explicitly provide clarity on what it does and how it is better than competition, most people aren’t even checking it out.
It’s an unpopular opinion but I completely agree. I’ve tried Matrix, not only could I not get more than 2% of my community to try it, but it’s horribly unintuitive and limited for server owners. Shut it down after a few months.
I have a rocket chat server going now, some similar issues, but at least it has more control than Matrix. Still only a fraction of my Discord and Telegram user base has joined, but it’s similar enough that people are at least willing to try.
FOSS alone is not enough, the wider public doesn’t care, they just want something easy and convenient.
Curious, what didn’t you like about Matrix specifically? I’m in the process of evaluating it for my friends. With the Element client, so far it seems pretty dang similar? Space = server, room = channel, there are also access controls. Seems like there’s voice and video chats too.
Speed was a big thing. Switching channels could take a few seconds to over a minute to load, on good hardware.
The biggest issue, and a huge glaring oversight imo, is that users can create their own channels, encrypt them, and instance owners have no way to know what goes on in there. Some of the channel names alone were enough to make your skin crawl.
Oh, and you want to ban somebody? Cool, just ban them individually from every channel, because there is no global instance-wide ban. Moderation is horrendous.
That sounds laughable. Gross. No thanks.
did you host your own matrix homeserver or use matrix.org? that can change how fast it feels massively and yeah built in moderation tools are pretty much nonexistant https://github.com/the-draupnir-project/Draupnir is the only moderation bot that you can run to ban users from all rooms at once if they break your rules and lets you subscribe to banlists so if a user spams in other rooms that have write access and gets added they’ll be banned from your rooms as well
Hosted my own, was basically trying to move a large group off telegram and onto my own servers.
I did use Mjolnir for a while, but that was a hassle in and of itself as well. Nothing was intuitive.
if the featureset is not clear enough at first glance
My experience as someone who has barely dabbled in Matrix, tried comparing clients, and knows a lot of people who stick to Discord: a lot of Discord users heavily use custom emotes, voice chat, and screen sharing. It’s not even easy to figure out which Matrix clients support each of those features without installing everything and trying it out. There’s a clients comparison on matrix.org that mentions Voip but not stickers or video.
For stickers alone:
- Element is widely considered the go-to Matrix client but uses a strange integration system for predefined sticker packs instead of the MSC2545 stickers that more closely resemble what users coming from Discord would want.
- Cinny seems to have the best support for stickers/emotes but its site doesn’t mention them at all. It supports uploading and managing sticker packs at either a channel or user level, provides a nice picker UI to send any picture from those packs as either a large “sticker” or a small inline “emoji”, and allows using them for reactions.
- FluffyChat mentions stickers on its site and has the second best sticker support, with all of those except reactions and a graphical sticker picker for inline emoji (need to type them as shortcode).
- SchildiChat, Nheko, and NeoChat have some sort of limited support for custom stickers/emoji. NeoChat is the only one of those that advertises stickers on its main site. Nheko mentions them in a GitHub readme.
Being able to freely use custom emotes without paying for a Discord Nitro subscription nor server boosts would be a great selling point but it’s not something most users would be able to figure out before signing up. The limited client support isn’t great; e.g. Fluffy is the only Android client that supports sending custom stickers but some people may dislike the chat bubbles style UI.
We need to fix people. This proprietary shit is dystopian.
Make the apps pretty, sure, but long term; fix people.
Steam supports direct voice chat. My friends use it for gaming.
Also, teamspeak.
Steam doesn’t let me make my own survers with categorized groups and stuff
More, you need to convince the that this shit being inevitable is why you need FOSS.
Ads are not enough reason to stop using it for the majority. You need to offer more than just ad-free. You need to offer the same or better adoption, features, and overall user experience. Discord has these all nailed.
Discord has literally like one feature matrix doesn’t; stickers. And it kinda has those. Stop talking shit and try it out with some friends. This is so much more important than just chat, and the hour is getting late as fuck.
The big thing is the network effect. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem.
I’m not leaving my communities for yet another app. When they migrate I will too.
Dude. You can install multiple apps on your phone. I’m pretty sure.
Ads are the least of your worries on Discord
mumble is free and open source.
So is Matrix and it includes self-hosting and end-to-end encryption enabled by default.
Did they rewrite that crappy Python server in something with better performance by now? I tried self-hosting Matrix a few years ago and gave up after the one room I joined hadn’t finished syncing after a whole day (admittedly it was their main matrix chat room with lots of members but still).
https://matrix.org/ecosystem/servers/
There are multiple options for homeservers and the Python one is just one of several implementations. There are others written in C++, Rust, Go!, etc.
Just don’t make a new install with Dendrite - it’s not really supported anymore. And no automated automation for us who do have Dendrite servers …
Synapse if you plan to go large, otherwise Conduit, would be my recommendation.
is your automation automated? mine’s manual I’m jealous
That hasn’t been an issue for a year if you’ve enabled sliding sync. It is very fast nowadays. Look into element-x https://github.com/element-hq/element-x-android
Sliding sync doesn’t make joining Matrix HQ any faster. This is depending on your hardware and whether or not you have any workers configured. For most users it isn’t worth joining that room anyway.
Why not? I’m not in mhq but why is it different than other rooms?
It’s the amount of users and servers in the room. When you join it on a new server it needs to process and verify the state of the room and agree it with all the servers. As the state is massive in this room it can take a very long time to join it.
If you want to learn more read this: https://matrix.org/docs/older/stateres-v2/
Thx. So the first time the server joins the room it’s slow. Any subsequent joins are faster
Element X is a client.
Element doesn’t support sliding sync
It depends on your skillset. If you can self host services in docker, matrix should not be an issue anymore. Its still nowhere ready for everyone at this point but is constantly improving.
Docker changes nothing about the performance characteristics of a service. If anything back then a full server dedicated to it wouldn’t have been enough.
i know that. My comment was concerning the „hostability“ in general. The performance is okay imo. Joining large rooms will still take a couple minutes but no whole day.
Isn’t Mumble just a voice chat software? I don’t think that is the main use case for Discord for most people.
Yeah, discord is for running a community not just chatting in voice.
Idk, me and all my friends use discord for vc, plus screenshots and memes while we chat. You can do that in mumble. Not sure about broadcasting or anything (I started a server yesterday after the news broke), maybe there are extensions. Discord is just a means to an end for us.
And no one uses it. The last time I used mumble was over a decade ago and its use was short lived.
Good. Maybe people will finally move on to something else.
revolt.chat is pretty good. It’s open source as well. The interface is exactly the same as Discord. And best of all, you don’t need nitro to have a gif background or profile picture. Markdown is also supported in the profile description so you can have very fancy descs.
I didn’t get past the sign in page because I was having too much fun looking at all of the localization options for their website.
The default is “🇺🇸 English (Simplified)”, but they have “☠️Pirate”, “Toki Pona”, “🥹Bottom”, “😸OwO”, “🪄 Enchantment Table”, and many other funny options.
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That’s the current app. A native app is coming soon
the Voice Server Backend is basically done, currently there’s ongoing re-works of the desktop client (limited demo at https://revolt.chat/app IIRC), as well as closed betas for iOS and Android native apps.
There’s also a slew of Third-Party Clients and an open Client-Server API.
Just remember that this project is built by people in their free time, not a VC-Backed company.
revolt
Are there public servers / communities?
Yes. As I said, it’s basically Discord.
I’ll keep an eye on this. I use discord exclusively for gaming purposes, and voice chat is pretty important for that bc I’m still on console mostly for the next year or so (building a pc finally, thanks to a new job). So if they can get that going, I could convince several people to switch once I’m also on PC. Till then discord for my PS5 is about the best I can hope for.
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I just installed it after I ran into it on some other Lemmy comment. I was hoping to replace discord with it.
- clicking on a voice room doesn’t actual join it. You still need to dial in
- I can’t see who is currently in/using the voice room.
- doesnt seem to remember me granting mic access
- doesn’t seem to support screen sharing
It just feels like it isn’t “there” just yet? Unless I’m missing something?
If I showed it to friends of mine today and they had my experience I’m sure they’d go back to discord.
Not hating on the devs though. The product itself seems to be coming along nicely.
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If it helps, I’m pretty sure the devs are in the process of rewriting the UI on a private repo. Idk if there’s any eta or progress chart
Writing code in private and then throwing it over the wall to the public is usually a pretty huge red flag with projects that are already public.
It’s way better than Matrix
No E2EE for DMs, groups, or notes.
That’s going to be the deal breaker for most.
Matrix is far too slow for what it’s intended to be. I’d certainly like to see E2EE come to Revolt.
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It is just as centralized and has a tendency to ban people for poor reasons
Enshittyfication as normal
Time to move to Matrix then, and I’m not even joking. Ads are Aids.
Yeah god forbid anyone pay for the shit they use, just keep hopping around to suck the life out of every ‘free’ service there is. Nitro is right there.
If it wasn’t a privacy nightmare maybe I will consider paying, but data theft + ads? Naaaah.
Ah right, so it’s fine if it’s a privacy nightmare but combined with ads, woah there. If you’re right, they already have your data. If you don’t use it, why even complain?
Because I’m free to complain about things I don’t like.
Many of my friends use Discord but I also use Matrix and I prefer that. This is a Signal/WhatsApp like situation.
If Discord starts shoving them ads maybe I can bring some people over to a more secure platform easily.
Yeah, sure, complain about it if you want to, it just doesn’t make sense if you’ve already given them the data. I like Signal for privacy but it doesn’t have any customization, no personalization, no personality, it’s nearly sterile. It does it’s job and that’s it. Great for people who want privacy for like… work but for just talking to friends Discord seems more enjoyable.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen discord get a positive mention on this sub. I’ve never used it so I don’t really have a horse in this race.
I don’t know what people use it for, but I’ve seen all the negative memes about open source software devs using it and that causing people to skip on the software though. Never seen it get any praise around here.
I haven’t scraped the terms of service to see exactly what kind of data they collect but I’m not extremely worried about it. I don’t put sensitive information into it beyond my payment information for Nitro. I’m sure everyone here on Lemmy, a self-host and open source site/software, is against programs like Discord because they’re proprietary but I personally just enjoy it and don’t find it very limiting.
- Your IP address will be logged as soon as you login.
- They store everything you send in plain text on an encrypted storage unit.
- They store if your microphone and/or camera is on or off + more of what settings you have made in your own device.
- They force you to give them your phone number in order to identify you.
Source: https://discord.com/privacy
Discord is a privacy nightmare, but not as much as for an example Spotify. Spotify even logs how you hold your device and how fast you move it! Source: https://www.spotify.com/uk/legal/privacy-policy/
- Everything everywhere I connect to has my IP, oh no.
- It’s not plaintext if it’s encrypted…
- So like cookies but for an application, not that intrusive imo.
- “You may be required to verify your account with a phone number” - I provided a phone number once and they’ve never, at any point, sent me anything or asked me to use it. You could easily use a burner phone.
Even thinking about a company like Google seems like more of a privacy nightmare. This is relatively tame compared to most everything else.
Nitro is right there… and yet… these changes happened.
Because of people… like you… who provide nothing to a free service besides costing bandwidth… leeches to a free internet… vampires to charity…
Why not Mumble and IRC or XMPP?
Which of them support e2e in group chats by default?
XMPP with OMEMO.
Is this april fools or for real
The news broke yesterday sooooo
Oh no.
Mr Kool-aid man, but with a discord logo on him OHH YEAHHHHH!
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And thus begins the enshittification of Discord
It has always sucked. From the beginning it was privacy-invasive, had no real business model, has had crappy Electron apps and has been proprietary.
More like half way down the road
Resisting? It was a clear strategy: use VC money to give away something for free then charge/monetize to give back those investors all the money, with interests
