We’ve been doing it for about as long as we’ve been humans.
We have been doing a looot of things for a long time. Procreation without consent for example used to be a big staple in our development and yet we have ceased to find that acceptable, fortunately. Weather or not we have done something for a long time has no bearing on it beeing a good thing or not.
Alternately, if my mum was an animal, and you had raised that animal from birth, gave it plenty of food, made sure it was kept safe from predators, parasites etc., I’d say it would think that you taking its skin and meat when it no longer needed them was a small price to pay. If aliens abducted me and made me that deal, and those things weren’t already provided by the society I was surrounded by, I’d probably take it.
In fairness the suggested premise of you wearing human skin, not an animal skin, was funny but pretty stupid to start with.
And not what they had suggested has been done for the while history of humanity.
Leather is not a byproduct. Virtually no one is raising cows just to be nice. It’s a business, and no business is going to waste resources on unprofitable “assets”. This means the cows are raised specifically for their skin (in the case of the leather industry), and they are killed while still young. The same is true for both the animal flesh and dairy industries - older cows are less profitable.
So to accurately compare it to humans, imagine a bunch of babies and young children being confined in cramped, unsanitary conditions, regularly getting abused, and then being slaughtered long before they ever had any opportunity to do anything with their lives - having only ever known suffering and abuse.
Human skin is really only good for parchment and whatnot. It’s too thin to be used for protection and it’s lacking hair for warmth. Maybe you could turn her into some kind of drum? I’m not sure how much tension human leather can take.
Anyway, again we were talking about things that are or are not normal. Human artifacts have been created throughout history, but they’re generally pretty rare. They’re noteable. Shrunken heads, bone churches, skin books, a skin lamp shade. I think someone made some gloves once?
So, wearing my mum would not be normal. I’m gonna say you can’t because all of your friends would disown you.
No joke when this lab grown meat stuff finally hits its stride I’m going to start making calls to find out how much it would cost to grow me meet in a lab so I can eat myself.
Oh it’s you again, I didn’t even realize in either of those cases. Well stop having bad takes about animals, and start doing right by them. They need you.
No bad takes here, I already mentioned before that I have three beautiful chickens that are well loved, fed and protected and give me eggs on a daily basis. We work pretty well together
So, the fact that something is popular does, in fact, make it normal. “Right” is a completely different discussion from popularity, that’s correct.
Anyway, I generally agree we should minimize suffering as much as we can, but certain materials are irreplaceable for now. Leather has a combination of properties we haven’t been able to match with plant or synthetic materials. There are fake leathers, yes, but they don’t have the durability or flame resistance of real leather.
As for killing animals, I try to avoid it if it’s not necessary, and try to do it as quickly as possible otherwise.
Because it’s rational to hate when people kill other living beings just to wear their skin. That’s fucking bizarre and grotesque.
It’s extremely not bizarre. Their skin is very useful, when prepared right. We’ve been doing it for about as long as we’ve been humans.
We have been doing a looot of things for a long time. Procreation without consent for example used to be a big staple in our development and yet we have ceased to find that acceptable, fortunately. Weather or not we have done something for a long time has no bearing on it beeing a good thing or not.
I never argued it was moral, only that it was normal and not strange.
Can I wear your mum when she dies?
If my mum donated her body, sure.
Alternately, if my mum was an animal, and you had raised that animal from birth, gave it plenty of food, made sure it was kept safe from predators, parasites etc., I’d say it would think that you taking its skin and meat when it no longer needed them was a small price to pay. If aliens abducted me and made me that deal, and those things weren’t already provided by the society I was surrounded by, I’d probably take it.
That’s just a no except you’d like to feel justified about it.
I literally said yes.
In fairness the suggested premise of you wearing human skin, not an animal skin, was funny but pretty stupid to start with. And not what they had suggested has been done for the while history of humanity.
Leather is not a byproduct. Virtually no one is raising cows just to be nice. It’s a business, and no business is going to waste resources on unprofitable “assets”. This means the cows are raised specifically for their skin (in the case of the leather industry), and they are killed while still young. The same is true for both the animal flesh and dairy industries - older cows are less profitable.
So to accurately compare it to humans, imagine a bunch of babies and young children being confined in cramped, unsanitary conditions, regularly getting abused, and then being slaughtered long before they ever had any opportunity to do anything with their lives - having only ever known suffering and abuse.
And you think there’s anything normal about that?
Human skin is really only good for parchment and whatnot. It’s too thin to be used for protection and it’s lacking hair for warmth. Maybe you could turn her into some kind of drum? I’m not sure how much tension human leather can take.
Anyway, again we were talking about things that are or are not normal. Human artifacts have been created throughout history, but they’re generally pretty rare. They’re noteable. Shrunken heads, bone churches, skin books, a skin lamp shade. I think someone made some gloves once?
So, wearing my mum would not be normal. I’m gonna say you can’t because all of your friends would disown you.
No joke when this lab grown meat stuff finally hits its stride I’m going to start making calls to find out how much it would cost to grow me meet in a lab so I can eat myself.
Just because something is popular doesn’t make it normal or right. Maybe you should try visiting a slaughterhouse some time.
And we are back at the maybe if you just did this one thing you’d agree with my weird ideas that I think everyone should embrace.
If not visiting a slaughterhouse, it is about watching cowspiracy or some weird youtube videos. Come on
Oh it’s you again, I didn’t even realize in either of those cases. Well stop having bad takes about animals, and start doing right by them. They need you.
Hi again :)
No bad takes here, I already mentioned before that I have three beautiful chickens that are well loved, fed and protected and give me eggs on a daily basis. We work pretty well together
I have a reply to that comment nearly finished. Just had to break out a device with a real keyboard because it’s lengthier.
So, the fact that something is popular does, in fact, make it normal. “Right” is a completely different discussion from popularity, that’s correct.
Anyway, I generally agree we should minimize suffering as much as we can, but certain materials are irreplaceable for now. Leather has a combination of properties we haven’t been able to match with plant or synthetic materials. There are fake leathers, yes, but they don’t have the durability or flame resistance of real leather.
As for killing animals, I try to avoid it if it’s not necessary, and try to do it as quickly as possible otherwise.
https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Of_Anger
Honestly it just feels weird, but its more rational definitely than killing the same animals and throwing away their skin when you have a use for it.
The rational thing is to just leave the animals alone and not kill them.