Idk, i am torn on this. Obviously people have had depression with suicidal tendencies since the dawn of humanity, but i feel like most modern suicides come from the failings of oir current systems. I am Zoraya’s age and have struggled with depression and finding a reason to live for well over a decade. Euthanisia should be available to anyone with a terminal condition, but she still has her whole lofe ahead of her. It saddens me that the state has decided it is better to let her have a painless suicide rather than address the issues that make her life no longer worth living. To me there is no excuse for otherwise healthy adults in the prime of their lives to feel hopeless, but that is the society we have collectively decided we want to live in.
I’m glad she will be able to die on her own terms, but there is no excuse for this to be her only option. Our society has failed Zoraya and countless people like her.
I have no doubts about her sincerity to die. I just think that a better society would have been able to find her a reason to live. She is absolutely in the right here, and has done nothing wrong. It’s her government which has failed her.
Why are you assuming that her mental situation developed as a result of society or “the government”? The article mentions that her conditions are chronic and started developing in early childhood. People can have mental conditions without any particular external trigger.
Depression and anxiety are also heavily influenced by societal conditions. She would probably still have to deal with these issues but to a much less QoL damaging extent under a more humane system.
I read somewhere that we have way more suicides in general than before. That seemed plausiblevso I didn’t look it up proper. Also, whatever her problem is, that’s not what assisted suicide is for , she is abusing the system. The backlash from this improper use will impede access for the people who really need it.
the backlash from this improper use will impede access for the people who really need it
You aren’t her or any of the multiple doctors that have evaluated and tried various treatments with her. If you want to get into research and help look for cures for the vast, vast number of illnesses that contribute to people seeking this treatment, please do. Or help advocate for more money being funneled towards healthcare (including for education and training), cuz from what I understand there’s not a single country or healthcare system that has adequate resources to help everyone just in terms of the number of people available to provide what treatments we do have
True, but people are also influenced by society starting from a young age.
The Netherlands does have a slightly higher than average suicide rate. Maybe it is because they allow euthanasia, so it’s just easier than other similar countries … I don’t know.
I have mixed feelings too, like the poster you are responding to, but it is her choice. We let people sign up to potentially die to join the military when they aren’t even adults yet. This was a decision made with the support of loved ones and caregivers.
The Netherlands does have a slightly higher than average suicide rate. Maybe it is because they allow euthanasia, so it’s just easier than other similar countries … I don’t know.
This is speculated in the wiki as well and honestly I’m conflicted on it too. If people are choosing it more when it’s more readily available, does that necessarily reflect badly on the people providing it? or does it reflect worse on the societies where people are suffering so badly that they probably would choose suicide if it was easier?
In a kind of parallel way to abortion here, ban abortion and you get lower abortion rates but higher rates of poverty and lower education rates. Safe abortion options lead to higher abortion rates, but the quality of life is better for those that make the choice to do it safely.
Of course in this case it’s a bit different because the quality of life in assisted death is no life, but is no life better than a fucking miserable one?
It’s a lot to think about but, like others in this thread, i generally believe the majority of today’s mental health problems (specifically depression, anxiety, and to some extent addiction) are systemic societal problems. I know others disagree and I’m not trying to be dismissive of people’s very real mental health struggles, but I mean that they are caused systemically in the way lung cancer became more common because of cigarettes. Our environment affects us.
but i feel like most modern suicides come from the failings of oir current systems
This is something you should probably confirm and not decide on gut feeling
I am Zoraya’s age and have struggled with depression and finding a reason to live for well over a decade.
Depression is not a binary thing… it’s not like you have it or not… most people “feel blue” every so often and that is mild depression… some people are rendered catatonic and can’t bring themselves to go to the bathroom so they soil themselves… that is also depression but a much more hardcore case… comparing whatever you have vs whatever this person you don’t know have (not counting they mentioned Zoraya suffers from other mental health issues as well) is not right… it could be like me comparing the salty burger I had the other day which I didn’t like vs the literally rotten food being served to inmates in Murica.
To me there is no excuse for otherwise healthy adults in the prime of their lives to feel hopeless
So you ARE comparing the salty burger vs rotten food on the same level…
I’m glad she will be able to die on her own terms, but there is no excuse for this to be her only option. Our society has failed Zoraya and countless people like her.
Again you double down on the notion that “her depression is just sadness, have you tried smiling today?”. Also, this is not her only option, this is the last option after a decade of trying other options
Idk, i am torn on this. Obviously people have had depression with suicidal tendencies since the dawn of humanity, but i feel like most modern suicides come from the failings of oir current systems. I am Zoraya’s age and have struggled with depression and finding a reason to live for well over a decade. Euthanisia should be available to anyone with a terminal condition, but she still has her whole lofe ahead of her. It saddens me that the state has decided it is better to let her have a painless suicide rather than address the issues that make her life no longer worth living. To me there is no excuse for otherwise healthy adults in the prime of their lives to feel hopeless, but that is the society we have collectively decided we want to live in.
I’m glad she will be able to die on her own terms, but there is no excuse for this to be her only option. Our society has failed Zoraya and countless people like her.
I have no doubts about her sincerity to die. I just think that a better society would have been able to find her a reason to live. She is absolutely in the right here, and has done nothing wrong. It’s her government which has failed her.
Why are you assuming that her mental situation developed as a result of society or “the government”? The article mentions that her conditions are chronic and started developing in early childhood. People can have mental conditions without any particular external trigger.
She has trauma, according to the article. Most traumas are largely systemic issues that have been improperly handled.
Fair enough — though the trauma is also just one of the named conditions, and we have no idea what that trauma was caused by.
Depression and anxiety are also heavily influenced by societal conditions. She would probably still have to deal with these issues but to a much less QoL damaging extent under a more humane system.
I read somewhere that we have way more suicides in general than before. That seemed plausiblevso I didn’t look it up proper. Also, whatever her problem is, that’s not what assisted suicide is for , she is abusing the system. The backlash from this improper use will impede access for the people who really need it.
She’s run out of treatment options and is still symptomatic to the point that her quality of life is severely diminished.
It wasn’t an overnight decision and has been reviewed by multiple medical teams, over 3 and a half years. All stated in the article.
You aren’t her or any of the multiple doctors that have evaluated and tried various treatments with her. If you want to get into research and help look for cures for the vast, vast number of illnesses that contribute to people seeking this treatment, please do. Or help advocate for more money being funneled towards healthcare (including for education and training), cuz from what I understand there’s not a single country or healthcare system that has adequate resources to help everyone just in terms of the number of people available to provide what treatments we do have
True, but people are also influenced by society starting from a young age.
The Netherlands does have a slightly higher than average suicide rate. Maybe it is because they allow euthanasia, so it’s just easier than other similar countries … I don’t know.
I have mixed feelings too, like the poster you are responding to, but it is her choice. We let people sign up to potentially die to join the military when they aren’t even adults yet. This was a decision made with the support of loved ones and caregivers.
This is speculated in the wiki as well and honestly I’m conflicted on it too. If people are choosing it more when it’s more readily available, does that necessarily reflect badly on the people providing it? or does it reflect worse on the societies where people are suffering so badly that they probably would choose suicide if it was easier?
In a kind of parallel way to abortion here, ban abortion and you get lower abortion rates but higher rates of poverty and lower education rates. Safe abortion options lead to higher abortion rates, but the quality of life is better for those that make the choice to do it safely.
Of course in this case it’s a bit different because the quality of life in assisted death is no life, but is no life better than a fucking miserable one?
It’s a lot to think about but, like others in this thread, i generally believe the majority of today’s mental health problems (specifically depression, anxiety, and to some extent addiction) are systemic societal problems. I know others disagree and I’m not trying to be dismissive of people’s very real mental health struggles, but I mean that they are caused systemically in the way lung cancer became more common because of cigarettes. Our environment affects us.
This is something you should probably confirm and not decide on gut feeling
Depression is not a binary thing… it’s not like you have it or not… most people “feel blue” every so often and that is mild depression… some people are rendered catatonic and can’t bring themselves to go to the bathroom so they soil themselves… that is also depression but a much more hardcore case… comparing whatever you have vs whatever this person you don’t know have (not counting they mentioned Zoraya suffers from other mental health issues as well) is not right… it could be like me comparing the salty burger I had the other day which I didn’t like vs the literally rotten food being served to inmates in Murica.
So you ARE comparing the salty burger vs rotten food on the same level…
Again you double down on the notion that “her depression is just sadness, have you tried smiling today?”. Also, this is not her only option, this is the last option after a decade of trying other options