- cross-posted to:
- usnews@lemy.lol
- cross-posted to:
- usnews@lemy.lol
Two members of the Orange Unified School District board have been removed by parents who opposed a policy requiring school staff to out transgender kids.
Parents in Southern California have voted to remove two conservative school board members after they spearheaded a policy that forcibly outs transgender students to their guardians.
Members of the Orange Unified School District board voted 4-0 to enact the policy in September. It was passed at 11:30 p.m., after the three opposed members walked out and withheld their votes.
The policy states that parents must be notified when a student seeks “to be identified as a gender other than the student’s biological sex or gender listed on the student’s birth certificate or any other official records.” This includes names, nicknames, and pronouns, and applies even if the student hasn’t taken action but has discussed the matter with a counselor.
…
At the initial meeting in September, the board was overwhelmed by crowds who showed up to either protest or support the policy. However, the majority of the attendees voicing support did not have children in the district’s schools, and most were not residents of the area, according to the Times.
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Lotta text to say you don’t create an environment where children feel safe talking to you.
Lemme show you what we see when we read your post.
Obviously I’m taking massive liberties with your text, but so are you with every other family that isn’t yours. Doesn’t feel nice does it? That’s one reason why all of your posts are disliked.
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The only one sounding dumb here is you. Someone gives an honest, respectful and transparent appraisal of how your arguments sound in public and this is your reaction. I wouldn’t want to be your kid and if I were I wouldn’t want to talk to you either.
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Your interpretation leads to kids being hurt by their parents.
You have zero evidence to support that claim. It is purely anticdotal and not even close to realistic.
There is literally no reason to be this huge of an asshole because your shit argument got debunked. Walking away with your tail tucked would be more dignified than this tantrum you’re throwing.
Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_for_being_transgender
I am not saying that at all. Re read what I wrote. I said that not giving parents a chance is not fair to the parent.
Outing trans and gay kids to transphobic and homophobic parents has zero evidence that it causes real harm and puts those kids in danger? I’m gonna need some sources on that. The suicide rates and rates of homelessness among LGBT youth say otherwise.
Lol, I will tell this story to my mom and she will laugh at you. Then 20 minutes later we won’t even remember that you exist. Just like your kids won’t in 20 years.
Yea. Sure buddy. ;)
I’m not your buddy, pal.
I’m not your pal friend!
I feel really bad for your children reading your responses here. You sound unhinged.
Lmao like you know how well adjusted they are. You don’t understand parenting and it’s sad you think you do.
you’re the sad piece of shit here, buddy.
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Acting? These are words. Actions are something different. Get a dictionary and read it before trying to sound smart.
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I mean, is drug use any different?
Are you arguing that exploring gender identity is similar to getting addicted to drugs? This is a very stupid take…
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What bias are you specifically accusing me of here?
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lmao, that’s exactly what I fucking thought.
Ok?
Is drug use any different than what? Kids wanting to go by a different name? Or self-harming?
On all 3, being required to tell the parents is a big issue as the parents might be a part of the problem. Plus, requiring staff snitch on kids is a great way to get kids to never tell anybody that they’re having problems and just bottle it up inside until it festers into some kind of breakdown or long-lasting mental health issue. My mom was a guidance counselor for many years, and she had to make plenty of house calls with CPS in tow.
Sometimes, kids need the help or advice of a third-party adult that they trust who isn’t their parents or their friends’ parents. Hell, in my 20s, I was a manager at a fish market, and even I played that role many times. Oftentimes, it was as innocuous as distracting an earnest and loving mom so that she would stop trying to answer questions for her kids during their interview with the boss instead of letting them answer for themselves, or helping them work up the courage to tell their parents something important like that they’re gay. But if I had broken their confidence and told their parents? The kids who asked me for advice on stuff like how to quickly save money so that they could get an apartment when they turned 18 because their mom was kicking them out of the house would’ve never dared come forward with that.
Demanding teachers put the feelings of some parents above the wellbeing of the most vulnerable kids by not letting them use their own judgment to do what’s best for each kid on a case by case basis isn’t the right way to go about this.
Your statement is extremely open-ended so it is impossible to know what you mean by this, so I can only answer generically.
Yes, drug use is different for various reasons.
A granular example is that some drugs, such as cannabis, limit brain development permanently when consumed below a certain age. Other drugs have similar impact. Since this causes measurable damage to a child’s development, it is different.
If there is a connection between a child wanting to keep information about their perception of themselves private from their care giver and the damage caused by some intoxicants I am failing to see it and would appreciate more insight into your rationale.
Finally, unrelated to your reply at all… I am realizing that autonomy itself is seen as harming a child by many parents. Controlling parents are not a new thing, so this is not surprising to me, but I think if we were to boil down opposition to this, in most cases, we would be left with, “I don’t see my child as a potential adult, I see them as a subservient to be controlled.”
The way to raise children to be functioning adults is to offer them the same respect, freedom, and autonomy that they will have when they arrive at adulthood. Does that mean let them do whatever they want? Obviously no. But there does seem to be an astonishingly large population that doesn’t seem to see their own children as being separate from their parents. Differing experiences, views, challenges that the parent has no idea how to deal with, or at worst, is openly hostile towards. Children are the experts on themselves, parents are mentors to guide the way, but many parents seem to treat their children as prisoners and their home as a comfortable prison. A comfortable prison is still a prison, and the prisoner will notice whether it be now or when they are older and start discussing their childhood with friends.
In short, children are far more aware than many give them credit and will develop into that awareness with confidence if guided by gentle mentorship. Or they will grow through the prison floor like a pissed-off dandelion if restrained.
I’m not a writer, open to critique always.
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Let’s take a step back and look at the mandate in question because the scenario it puts forward is so farcical that I can’t imagine a situation where it’s true.
The idea of a kid being publicly out at school but not at home makes no sense. Kids might be out with their friends, sure, but having the entire school recognize them as a different gender than their parents? The only situation where this mandate would take effect is one where a kid has privately confided in a teacher or counselor, or maybe at a school LGBT group or something. All of which are situations where breaking the kid’s trust and consent are the worst way to go about things. A kid’s consent is just as important as an adults.
In the above scenarios, the way to go about it is encouraging the kids to help them gain the confidence to come out on their own or protect them from transphobic and homophobic parents. Snitching on them won’t help either way.
The only purpose of this mandate is to make trans kids afraid of being outed to transphobic parents. The cruelty is the point.
If the mandate is to keep it from abusive parents cool. I approve of this. My original comment had very little to do with the article. It has more to do with the comment that kids hide things from their parents because of their parents. Kids hide things because they don’t want to get caught in some instances. Especially if they are lying. Which is the original comment parent to the comment I replied to.
From the parent comment.
The comment you replied to and the parent comment were both about the mandate in the article, which is why you’ve gotten the pushback that you have. Neither had anything to do with kids lying to hide things other than protecting themselves from transphobic parents. The mandate in the article was expressly created for the purpose of outing kids to transphobic parents, hence the comment about kids not trusting their parents usually for good reason.
The parent comment absolutely said they did not know how the felt not knowing if their kid reported to school as transgender and then not to the parent.
Right, it also said this:
To which the comment you replied to said that when kids don’t trust their parents, there’s usually a reason. Which you disagreed with and called a “hot take.”
The whole conversation is about kids lying to their parents about being transgender, in regards to a mandate that forcibly outs them to their parents. We’re not talking about kids lying about drugs and alcohol or something like teenage rebellion, but about kids lying about a fundamental part of who they are. And the most likely reason that they would do so is because telling the truth would be dangerous. There’s no sensible scenario where a kid would be publicly out to the entire school without their parents knowing, so this would be the kind of thing a kid would confide in a counselor or something privately, and if this were a therapist or a doctor the kid was telling, there are literally laws preventing them from telling the kid’s parents without the kid’s permission.
There’s also the fact that the OP is based on a zero sum fallacy in which schools are either telling all parents or telling no parents, and that’s not how things work. Plus, now that I’m looking at that quote, “keeping the secret could also be dangerous to some”?? How could not telling a parent that their kid is trans be dangerous for the kid??
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Except the person you replied to was specifically talking about trans kids not telling their parents that they’re trans. So you’re arguing against a point that nobody made.
And in cases like that, where a trans or gay kid won’t tell their parents, it’s usually because their parents have made it abundantly clear their entire lives how they feel about LGBT people. There’s plenty of other reasons. Anxiety is completely irrational, for example. But those cases are just a matter of not telling them yet. And that’s a choice for the kid to make, not the school. There’s literally laws preventing pediatricians and therapists from telling parents stuff like that without the kid’s consent. Schools can provide counseling to help kids gain the confidence to do that, but they don’t have the right to forcibly out kids. Kids have just as much a right to privacy as their parents.
More importantly, you’re falling for the same zero sum fallacy as the parent comment, which is the exact intention of this mandate (besides hurting trans kids). They want to remove all nuance from the issue and make your immediate emotional reaction bias your opinion. It’s never an all or nothing situation. Every single day, schools make case by case decisions about how to best take care of the kids there. Some things are best dealt with without, or simply not important enough to bother, getting the parents involved. You probably don’t need to be called and told that Robert asked a teacher to call him Bob instead. And yet, under that mandate? The school would be required to do exactly that.
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I think you’re potentially right in some cases. But the much more LIKELY scenario when a child wouldn’t be out to their parents like this - a pretty rare scenario - would be when there’s a good reason for it. Which I think is the root disagreement here.
Otherwise if the parents and kids are communicating so poorly there’s also something pretty broken in the home.
What about a child exploring their gender identity bothers you so much that you feel that intervention should be mandatory? Why do you view being trans as a bad thing by default?
Nothing bothers me about that at all. It bothers me when people blame parents for not being close to their kids like it’s always the parent’s fault. Kids are secretive for millions of reasons and reducing it to “they are secretive when there is something wrong with the parent” is not fair at all to them.
Guess what? Kids exploring gender identities is not some scary dangerous thing, and if you have the right bond with your kids, they will tell you. These “outing” prohibitions are there to protect the kids from parents who have created such an environment at home that the kids don’t feel safe telling them.
Children aren’t some objects that parents own and control.
I never insinuated ownership. That’s a jump you made. Kids hold things back for more reasons than the parents. There are plenty of people that do things their parents don’t know about for whatever reasons they justify.
That’s no reason to force teachers to share everything they know with parents, especially since this is specifically targeted at kids who explore their gender identity, rather than something harmful that might actually justify alerting parents.
You came in here initially defending a legal mandate that targets vulnerable children, and now you’re defending yourself as if your original point was that parents should be more involved in their children’s lives.
Nobody disagrees with you on the latter, only the original argument you are now trying to deflect from.
@BreakDecks @GladiusB
Everybody needs to drink fresh water every day and mind their own business, and stay in their own lane, including the kids.
Absolutely deranged take in response to this conversation. If anyone needs to mind their own business it’s the transphobic ghouls trying to force teachers to out queer kids to their parents.
And maybe you. Absolutely zero self awareness to butt into a conversation to tell everyone else to mind their business, and add nothing else to the conversation but your own nose.
I never disagreed with any mandates or agreed with them in any shape or fashion. I disagreed with blaming parents for their kids not wanting to tell the parents.
So all of the parents who emotionally and physically abuse their their queer children are faultless, and abused children should unconditionally trust their abusers because they’re their parents and must know what’s best?
And now you’ve spent the last 8 hours angrily arguing this in a thread about queerphobic educational mandates, because you have absolutely no opinion about the mandares of which we are all discussing?
C’mon man… You don’t have to die on this very stupid hill. You don’t even have to admit that you are wrong. You can just stop digging this hole.
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There are millions of things kids keep from their parents while growing up, and they do it for millions of different reasons, some good some bad and some goofy. Why do we need the government stepping in deciding which secrets, especially those that have nothing to do with the administration of education, are valid?
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Everything requires context. Sometimes kids hide things because their parents may react with violence or some other form of extreme punishment. But regardless of the reason, I would be concerned that these mandatory disclosure policies are stifling the 1st amendment rights of the children, and even worse they are doing so based on a specific viewpoint.
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