At times I wonder if medically assisted suicides are frowned upon due to not being able to further drain the money out of patients and their extended credit lines.
They’re also frowned upon because it’s pretty cruel to tell someone “well, you could just die” because they can’t afford medical treatments or a place to live.
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Not on topic but I recently listened to the Rush Limbaugh episodes of “Behind the Bastards”. I didn’t think I could dislike Rush more than I already did but I found out he was worse than I thought.
Nobody needs to tell us that. We already know.
I’d rather rhave the option than not even ha e autonomy over my own life.
I remember when we bought a house 8 years ago (seems like a lifetime now) talking to the mortgage broker and he basically said they straight-up ignore medical debt because everyone has it and nobody would ever get a loan if it was considered. It’s utterly insane to me how the wealthiest nation in the world can’t keep its citizens healthy and out of debt.
They can, but the current system is far more profitable.
the wealthiest nation in the world can’t keep its citizens healthy and out of debt.
But it can. The wealthiest nation in the world per capita is Luxembourg; then Switzerland. I think Norway finishes the top three. Excellent medical systems.
CUBA’s consolidated single-payer healthcare system beats the US’s #30 rank. And does it far, far cheaper. https://wisevoter.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world/
As Jeff Daniels says in the first act of the first episode of Newsroom, " Yosemite?"
Won’t someone PLEASE think of the shareholders?!
yes they do it cheaper because people aren’t afraid of going to the doctor and getting a $500 bill because the doctor’s assistant that was there for 10 minutes is out of network
In Switzerland healthcare, is not bad but expensive. Insurance is mandatory and the same fee for every income. I pay about 12-16% of my gross income for the health of my family. Oh, and this is with the hospitals (and other things) highly subsidized with tax money. Health costs are problematic for the middle class.
That’s lucky of you. Many do take it into account.
What’s nuts is that the majority of people declaring bankruptcy because of medical debt have insurance.
The credit agencies do this, too. Medical debt is either not counted against your credit score or is weighted so little it won’t affect much.
It makes perfect sense, because it’s not an accurate depiction of your credit seeking habits. It is debt that you did not choose to take on.
oh this guy is nearly dead lets take him to money-bags medical
The US healthcare system is a for profit death cult ran by racketeers
The US healthcare systemAmerica is a for profit death cult ran by racketeersFTFY
How dare you be critical of it you commie! /s
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All rights are won through violence
“America has Health Control and Guncare”
It always has. IIRC the biggest reason for bankruptcy in the US has been medical bills, for a while. Our greed driven system is garbage.
Michael Moore made a whole damn documentary about it in 2007, 16 fucking years ago.
Nothing has changed.
They eliminated pre-existing conditions and maximum lifetime payments for health insurance, so that’s not nothing.
But they failed to pass a public option which means health insurance companies have a captive audience for their rent-seeking.
And the Democrats still just talk about getting people affordable “coverage” and not affordable “care.”
And hospitals are still understaffed and mental health care has six month waiting lists.
Where I live, all care has a six month wait list. I started a new job with new insurance back in April, still haven’t been able to get in anywhere to see a new PCP. My dentist canceled an appointment on me last week and rescheduled it for February.
People say socialized medicine leads to long wait times to see doctors. Well, I’m not seeing them now anyway, so at least it’s less or of my pocket.
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Mental health care is also often just excluded from coverage. My current job is the first time in my life I’ve had insurance that would cover therapy rather than be like “Look, we gave you one 60 minute session with our free crisis line, what more do you want? If you really need it, it’s only $450 a session if it’s that important.”
I had to call thirteen different therapy offices before I found one that could take me before summer.
Of course, my health insurance website showed them all as “Accepting New Patients”
Maybe there was an asterisk and really tiny font stating “Eventually”.
We have a single wait-list if none are available. They email you when there’s an opening at a PCP in the area, and you can veto or lemon-law two offers before you have to go around again.
How many mh visits does your policy cover?
I haven’t really tested the limits on it, but so far at least one therapy session a week. Haven’t needed any inpatient care or anything beyond this, thus far, so I can’t comment on that.
That’s wonderful, I’m so glad you’re getting what you need!
And the Democrats still just talk about getting people affordable “coverage” and not affordable “care.”
You want to review how the Republicans actually convinced people, especially in the poorest regions who’d benefit the most from a system of improved coverage and reduced cost, that it was a bad thing.
Democrats can’t shoot for affordable care; they’re trying to get coverage in the door, at least.
Yes, I am aware that our government is broken and unable to do anything reasonable.
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And the Democrats still just talk about getting people affordable “coverage” and not affordable “care.”
The charitable interpretation is that they’re talking about getting the government to pay for healthcare and they don’t want to make it sound like medical professionals would all become government employees.
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Because that would be a lot less popular. A lot of Americans are terrified of the scenario because they’re afraid of change in general, and they’re afraid the result would be run even worse than the system we have now, because they think governments are inherently less competent than private companies.
I’m not talking about brainwashed Republicans; I mean centrist Dems whose support is absolutely vital for a Dem politician in almost any congressional district.
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No you fucking moron. That’s my parents you’re talking about.
Michael more was FED UP 16 years ago. It’s always been broken
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Not just the biggest, the biggest by far. Two thirds of bankruptcies are due to medical debt.
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Stop paying medical bills. A debt strike would be easier than a general strike.
Well part of it 8s not going to hurt your credit score anymore:
https://www.cnbc.com/select/medical-debt-credit-report/
Any bills under $500 in collections won’t be going against your score. Debts larger than that in collections have to be there for at least a year to be on your credit score and disappear once they are paid.
We could fix all this shit by having the cheaper Medicare for All solution.
Aetna pulled out of my county for five months. I ended up in a ICU for three days, which is about a $50,000 bill.
So now I’m on the hook for an $8,000 out of network deductible.
Fuck U.S. health insurance.
My wife had to go to the ER a few years ago. The hospital we thought we were going to was in network. Unfortunately the ER is a separate entity that was not in network. That was a nice $1000 bill.
So I’m trying to follow the misery in this thread, but I don’t know what “in network” means. Is there some sort of intranet that hospitals and insurance companies use to bill each other? I don’t get it.
Kind of. Insurance companies make deals with healthcare providers to give better rates on procedures than the book price. The book price is the price that the care provider “officially” charges. Usually it is some bullshit number they pull straight out of their ass. If you do not have insurance, they will charge you that made up book price. But you can call them up and negotiate with them because they want some payment and they realize most people cannot pull $50k out of their rectum.
So back to insurance…they negotiate with certain care providers in the region they operate. Those are in network and get better rates. Ones outside of that network get worse rates and insurance generally does not cover most of the cost…unless you have hit your out of pocket maximum for the year. The out of pocket maximum is when you have spent so much out of pocket on things like co-pays and out of network costs that insurance will now start covering 100% of the medical bills.
Not confusing or fucked up at all, right? It gets more complicated because there are also deductibles. That one is similar to out of pocket maximum but insurance does not pay 100%, generally closer to 80%. Your deductible goes toward the out of pocket maximum.
Before Obama, insurance companies also had maximum lifetime benefits. Basically if you were costing them too much for shit like a heart transplant, they’d tell you to fuck off after they already paid out $500k or whatever number they chose.
They could also deny coverage for a pre-existing condition. Generally you would be fine for that one if you had continual coverage but not necessarily. So if that heart transplant person wanted to switch insurance because he had a new job, they could see that he had a transplant previously and decide to not cover them. That one is a bit personal to me because my wife and her mother had a similar issue. My wife had a liver transplant when she was young. My mother-in-law did not ever try to switch jobs because she was afraid that a new insurance would not cover my wife. Dialing in the proper dosage for a growing kid so their liver does not get rejected takes a lot of doctor visits and would have been very costly.
That is nuts. And so complicated! Healthcare here is far from perfect (and getting worse all the time!) but at least it’s not that. How hard of a concept is it that if you’re unwell, you just go to any hospital and get treatment? Good to know that I’d just straight up die in the states though.
Larger companies have teams dedicated to negotiating with the insurance companies and answering insurance questions for employees. All that additional complexity means about 19% of the US GDP goes towards healthcare costs compared with most developed countries spending 10-12%. Even libertarian groups have shown that socialized insurance through extending Medicare to everyone would be cheaper than what we currently do and it would cover everyone (including dental) and there would be no out of network garbage. Several Democratic presidential candidates initially pushed for that at the start of their campaign only to back down from it later on in the race leaving only Sanders pushing for it.
As for straight up dying? Thousands each year die because of lack of insurance. I’m guessing several thousand more die even with insurance because they can’t afford the out of pocket maximum or their insurance declines covering a necessary procedure. I recall one woman who was attacked by a bear and her first thought while being attacked was how she would afford the medical bill if she made it through. And she was right to be worried. Her insurance denied most of her coverage and only paid 20% of her $300k worth of bills.
$500 is nothing. My son fell and hit his head and had a small seizure from the fall… took him to the ER, ct scan, medical exam, anti nausea medication, costed $750 out if pocket AFTER insurance. It was like a $3k medical bill before insurance. For like 2 hours at the ER and a scan… it’s ridiculous.
Yet COVID vaccinations are down…
And “essential workers” are right back to being expected to work while sick…
This is fine.
Nothing changed for “essential workers”. The only reprieve they received was guaranteed time off if they contracted Covid. We still had sick people working, they were the wrong kind of sick.
Got my free COVID shot and my free flu shot 90metres away at the pharmacy. Strolled in, they pulled up my info on pharmanet, all good, let’s do it. Out in 5.
It amazes me how people went to work sick as if it was normal. Of courses some bosses were assholes and “wouldn’t let you go home” or “needed you at work”. Sure boss let me sneeze in my hand before I shake everybody else’s hand.
Now these days woah big scary covid. If you’re not feeling good please stay home. We should’ve been staying home like 30 yrs ago,
Went
They still are.
I have a 103 fever and here I am. At work.
I’m not sure what places you are working that kept the COVID era scare.
Medicine is so polarized I can’t even tell my coworkers I tested positive for COVID. One of them will go on a violent rant for hours. '“Yep, I’m definitely a crisis actor. They don’t pay much these days. This is my second job”
I mean if you feel sick and wanna stay home, it happens. I just wish managers were less assholes and were more considerate.
The problem is so many jobs either make you take vacation days or not get paid at all if you have to miss work due to any illness
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You say that like we got anything out of covid. Or anyone learned anything about why sick days are needed
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I wonder if it’s a case of empathy being forced on some people, like when a Republican is suddenly LGBT tolerant because one of their own kids came out. But in this case it’s the feeling of worrying about their health or that of a loved one.
Whatever the cause, it’s still a positive change. I’m sure many of us who already saw the sense in staying home will now err on the side of caution a little more often.
I’ve been seeing this headline for more than twenty years.
Another 20 years and people might be fed up enough to do something about it.
Mostly they just get sick and die.
How convenient.
I see we’re waiting for the “cancer patients start going into insurance companies with boomboom vests” phase of the crisis
That hits close to home
can’t get sick if you can’t afford the diagnosis.
The next obvious evolutionary step.
You Joke, that but that was literally the approach of TFG when it came to covid testing.
I’m American. When I get cancer I plan to have one or two good months and kill myself.
The Repblican health care plan since 2009:
- Don’t get sick.
- If you do get sick…
- Die Quickly
Man, where’s Alan Grayson when you need him?
I was at a work training in the US with someone from Japan. She said she had only been to the US one other time but that she had gotten sick and spent 2 weeks in the hospital.
I don’t know what Japan’s healthcare system is like, but I can’t imagine being someone from another country and unfamiliar with our shitty system and getting that huge ass bill.
Most probably it was still covered by here Japanese insurance. A friend of mine broke an arm while in US and some insurance he bought in Poland paid for everything. You don’t have to be familiar with American system. It’s just like any other insurance.
Traveller insurance can often offset it.
It’s NOT like any other insurance.
Case in point: I rolled into the hospital with a sore arm. X-rays and an arm cast. But I left my wallet at home because my ride showed up early. “just phone down with your health number, if you could, so we can update the right file. Thanks!”. 0$
Non-US case2: I felt a wave of dizziness on the way to work and almost browned out while driving. Pulled over. It passed and I drove 2 blocks to the hospital. Related my story and spent 8 hours in test after test, room after room. I got the full workup. $0
Non-US case 3: my dear friend collapsed while this wife was out getting Starbucks. Dumbstruck and in pain. He could only speed dial her number: 911 was too complex. She does 911 and races home (xkr-s) as the first ambulance arrives and lets them in. They stabilize while the specialized cardiac bus is arriving. “Follow us in. Look. We’re gonna try for surrey but if he crashes we’ll divert to rch(trauma center). We’re gonna hit the lights, siren and punch it. Don’t feel you need to-- [spots jaguar idling] okay. So keep up only if it’s safe. We’re going.” SGH spotted something, not sure. Admitted for obs. Something was something, so it was a hot and loud bus to RCH anyway because it was serious and if he coded in traffic it would kill him. Heat up the trauma center o-r on a Sunday morning to apply 5 stents and prevent death by Widowmaker heart attack. He lives. Goes home in 2 weeks. $0
We’re not even paying monthly premiums anymore. But I would. I’m at the top end of the income-based sliding scale and I’ll pay it every damned month.
US example: dude rolls into wrong hospital while unconscious after soccer collision. Concussion. Tylenol. “Go home. Don’t fall asleep”. $80k(trauma center)+$10(Tylenol).
My US example: IT. Great insurance as they like us (Unix dev). Northgate Hospital in WA as I’m an H1b imm’grint takin-yer-jerb. Roll in for a simple procedure to alleviate spinal pressure when a sinus (not that kind) isn’t draining by itself. Advise the doc it’s a common thing for me, and a local and a horse-needle will get it back in line. Doc lays in with a scalpel and butchers me. Charges $500 for the pleasure but the invoice of arbitrary charges I didn’t have to pay was insane. Came home when my first h1 was up. Not looking back.
Americans have normalized low-key medical fear and avoidance that they don’t realize; and they are missing chances to catch things before it costs them their house or their life; and defending medical-induced bankruptcy (which can’t be discharged through bankruptcy) while completely blind to the fact that no other g8 is this objectively cruel to its own people.
I view medicine in the US similar to video piracy. If you are going to make access expensive and difficult to obtain, then I have no issue with stealing it. Medical debt is handled differently than other types of debt. IANAL, but I have no qualms with running up a 700k medical debt for life saving treatment then bouncing on the bill.
That’s actually what a lot of people do.
Plenty of medical bills simply go unpaid.
Just go to the hospitals office and tell em to give you the real bill first
We are so baffled in Europe about how a country that preaches human rights around the world revels in denying its own people one of the most fundamental human rights. Truly mind boggling.
Yeah but have you ever tried to live with only 3 homes instead of 4 or 5? It’s a lot to ask of our dear job creators!
/s
Hypocrisy is a defining feature of the ideology that half of our politicians subscribe to.
$
Ehrlichman: “Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. And the reason that he can … the reason he can do it … I had Edgar Kaiser come in … talk to me about this and I went into it in some depth. All the incentives are toward less medical care, because …”
President Nixon: [Unclear.]
Ehrlichman: “… the less care they give them, the more money they make.”
President Nixon: “Fine.” [Unclear.]
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