- cross-posted to:
- catholicism@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- catholicism@lemmy.world
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I know we’re all cynics here, but good for him. Even if this is entirely a publicity stunt, the guy is still taking a huge risk that someone might offer to take him up on it. That’s a lot of nerve, and that’s a lot of faith, either in God or in the way Hamas values hostages.
Either way, to repeat the notion elsewhere in the thread: any of us offering? Maybe it’s a low risk–but it ain’t zero. It’s easy to dismiss these kinds of gestures from the same armchairs from which we solve geopolitics and warfare, but a public figure going on record for selflessness is something to be celebrated, even if the only noble trait is willingness to roll the dice on human nature in the hope of sharing an altruistic sentiment.
“Hurt me instead of her” is something we wish more people of faith would say everywhere.
“Hurt me instead of her”
That’s kind of the entire message of Jesus: He volunteered to be hurt instead of us.
Now, the whole notion of God hurting us or Jesus is kinda fucked and I’m a devout Last Thursdayist, but the sentiment is the same.
I’ve used this argument unironically with creationists without realizing it was a thing. “If God is omnipotent, why couldn’t God create something that didn’t exist a moment ago but then comes into existence with billions of years of history.”
It’s just an attempt to at least get them to acknowledge science while still leaving room for faith, since carbon dating isn’t really up for debate and cosmology offers more than enough convincing evidence against a young universe, just to name two examples.
Anyway I thought I was being creative and original… guess not.
Thanks, me too. Existential crisis incoming.
I think the core message of Last Thursdayism is that since we can’t know, we shouldn’t worry about it
You do you. I’m freaking out. It can’t be stopped now. Pray for me.
May Bob guide you to your slack
I’m an Adamsian Last Thursdayist of the Subgenius, which synthesizes The Hitchhiker’s Guide and the Church of the Subgenius into something resembling a theology.
If I’m going to believe in something made up, I’ll make up something fun.
Praise Bob!
Me and a few buddies tried writing a “Not So Holy-ish Boble” in grades 7-9, it quickly became a one-upsmanship contest to see who could write the gayest thing you’ve ever read. There were characters such as Adam the Ant, a three-foot tall anthropomorphic ant with a ten-foot long penis, and Elliot the Otter, who was not only a literal otter, but also figurative. He was based on a real guy we knew, who loved it, but was not actually an otter himself (more of a twunk). Where’s Bob in all this? Very much involved in every activity, he was basically a super horny pansexual Jesus who would use his powers to incite orgies. I think it ended with a cumshot from Adam, so hard that it blasted the whole crew into space so they could convert other worlds. I was supposed to write the “Revelations” final chapter, but by then the group had converted to some other weird thing that the (very hot) new girl in school brought with her, and interest had waned.
Get this script to Seth Rogen and A24, they’ll make it a movie. Call it Sausage Fest 2- The Slappening.
Put me in the screenshot
Most of the hostages that have been released have been saying pretty good things publicly, so I guess now is as good a time as any lol
So go be one. How brainwashed do you have to be to believe hostages are being treated well by Hamas.
Yes good for him. And good for the world if we get some music festival kid back and lose a priest. Win-win.
If genuine, this man shows a deep understanding of Christianity that eclipses all American evangelicals combined. He’d be a seriously good person, worth being respected by everyone regardless of religion.
He also understands that a Christian is of absolutely no value in negotiating with Israel for Palestinian prisoners.
It’s brilliant: make a magnanimous gesture that seems incredible but really has zero chance is being accepted.
Very well said.
Speed-running sainthood.
In doing so, he would be following after Saint Maximilian Kolbe:
a Polish Catholic priest and Conventual Franciscan friar who volunteered to die in place of a man named Franciszek Gajowniczek in the German death camp of Auschwitz
The Catholic Church venerates him as the patron saint of amateur radio operators, drug addicts, political prisoners, families, journalists, and prisoners.
That’s uh, …huh…something.
Drug addicts are likely in there because they were victims of the Holocaust. Sainthood is like that. You’ve got some things that are directly related to you, and several that someone needs to be patron of and you’re close enough
St. Lawrence was executed by placing him on a gridiron with coals beneath it. At some point during his execution, he declared to the Romans “I am done on this side, turn me over”. After this he became the patron saint of both cooks and comedians, which I think is hilarious
I had forgotten about him, thanks!
What is Hamas going to do with a catholic priest? They want to exchange Israeli hostages for all the Palestinian men, women and children that Israel is holding hostage in Israeli prisons.
Israel is holding palestinian children in prison? What?
The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories
At the end of June 2023, the Israel Prison Service (IPS) was holding 147 Palestinian minors in detention or in prison on what it defined “security” grounds. At that time, the IPS was also holding 26 Palestinian minors for being in Israel illegally.
Yes they are. The charges in most cases? Stone throwing. I’ll add a few links for you to get started.
https://www.dci-palestine.org/children_in_israeli_detention
https://www.btselem.org/statistics/minors_in_custody
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/10/palestinian-children-abused-in-israeli-detention-ngo
This is awful. Thanks for sharing. ☹️
Usually they just shoot them.
Anyone else get ‘attention seeker’ vibes from this?
tf is wrong with you?
I was raised catholic.
Ahhh… you’re one of those edgy internet atheists. Carry on then.
I’ve met enough of these people to know it’s all show and ego. He inserted hinself into an event that didn’t involve him or his religion and suggested something unfeasibly ridiculous that made him look all selfless and pious and got him worldwide recognition and praise from millions of people.
Amazing! You’re so good at knowing what people’s intent is without even knowing- or so much as having ever even having heard of them!
Seriously, have you ever thought of turning that into a career in psychotherapy or criminal investigation? I’d wager that either of these fields would love to have someone with your skills!
You have so much faith in people being good and yet you live in a world like this.
You have so much faith in people being bad, it’s all you can see.
Fair enough- but in addition to that, I have zero faith in people that make knee-jerk assessments of others they know absolutely nothing about. It makes them seem childish and immature, as well as ignorant and unworthy of being taken seriously.
How does it not involve his religion? His parishioners live in Gaza. He’s not a random Iowa priest, his jurisdiction is in Israel. I also think this is naïve, but what do you think a better step to take here would be?
Not inserting himself into this for cheap publicity would be far more respectful. He’s making catholics look great in the media though so I’m sure he will be rewarded for this.
If he wants to help, he should help people on the ground where he is.
What does a cardinal do with all of this Ill-gotten publicity? What kind of aim would incentivize such an otherwise-irrational move just to get publicity?
What should he have answered, when asked if he would take their place? This cardinal’s first public comment on the subject was to answer yes, when reporters asked him if he would take their place. I assume he’s willing to do it, so it’s better not to just lie about that.
Why the downvotes? That was gold.
I get that some people want to “destroy the patriarchy” but this isn’t the appropriate response.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
VATICAN CITY, Oct 16 (Reuters) - Pope Francis’ representative in the Holy Land said on Monday he was willing to exchange himself for Israeli children taken hostage by Hamas and held in Gaza.
Cardinal Pierbattista Pizzaballa, the Patriarch of Jerusalem, made his comment in response to a question during a video conference with journalists in Italy.
He stressed, however, that he and his office had not yet had any direct contact with Hamas, the militant Islamist group that attacked Israel on Oct. 7, killing 1,300 people.
Diplomatic efforts have been intensifying to get aid into Gaza as Israel prepares a ground invasion to destroy Hamas.
Pizzaballa said that about 1,000 Christians were sheltering in Church buildings in northern Gaza after their homes were destroyed in Israeli strikes.
Israel has urged exhausted Gazans to evacuate to the south, which hundreds of thousands have already done in the enclave that is home to more than 2 million people.
The original article contains 336 words, the summary contains 156 words. Saved 54%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
SAY HIS NAME
🄿🄸🅉🅉🄰🄱🄰🄻🄻🄰
Atheism subs have been real quiet since this one dropped.
No, they haven’t.
I was going to reply, stopped to look at this guy’s comment history. I’m not seeing a lot of worth in it, it’s mostly one-liners about this or that, no real engagement. Some seem mildly divisive simply for division’s sake.
Thank you for your service lmao
You can’t possibly think Hamas will actually take a Catholic priest as a hostage trade in their war against Israel.
It’s such a ludicrous, ostentatious and baseless offer since he hasn’t even made contact with Hamas and acknowledges he won’t be able to that most people aren’t going to bother commenting about it.
I have the luxuries of callous taste and ample time.
How many times have you offered yourself to be exchanged for hostages? Yeah didn’t think so.
Incidentally, if Hamas accepts my willing offer(that I also won’t tell them about) to exchange myself for all Israeli child hostages, I am also explicitly offering this exchange, as an atheist.
So now me and the Cardinal are tied.
I’ll let the guys know
Good luck, I have it on medium-high religious authority that “You can’t talk to Hamas. It is very difficult”
If you do this, which I think you should (for science), have Christopher Nolan film it so we can’t hear what you’re saying.
For science.
A ludicrous, ostentatious and baseless offer of your own. That’s the spirit.
I guess that in that case they suck because they revolve around religion instead of atheism.
Oh yes. Hamas will greatly value a Catholic priest over multiple hostages.
I suppose it can’t be pure grandstanding, since this offer is public and could theoretically if illogically be accepted, but the fact that he hasn’t even talked to hamas and has acknowledged that he can’t talk to Hamas and is still telling the public about his “offer” reeks of bluster
How do they ensure the guy doesn’t just get killed in addition to existing hostages or scammed in some way along those lines?
They don’t, they have their faith. Some may say this is noble, some may say it’s foolish. This guy believes in his convictions enough to potentially offer his health and life for another he’s never met that doesn’t even worship the same ideas as him. That’s exceedingly rare these days, and will likely be moreso in the future.
They don’t. It would just be a very bad look for Hamas. They’d just have no reason to kill him, or even to do the exchange.
It sounds like I’m being facetious but I am not. They’re not holding the hostages for ransom. They’re holding them for a prisoner exchange, I presume. However, I think the time for that kind of deal making is over for now. I think the Israeli government is going to destroy Hamas.
The only negotiation o could see happening - and I haven’t even seen anyone suggest this - would be the Palestinian Authority or another group to broker a surrender of Hamas leadership. I don’t think that’s going to happen either.
I anticipate Israel makes a ground incursion while continuing airstrikes, 10k or more Palestinians killed, and Mossad and Shin Bet go gloves off in assassinating Hamas leadership and allies. I think they’re going to get a lot of leniency and possibly cooperation from the international community, including some Arab states.
This was a 9/11 for Israel, and I think they’re going to be permitted a disproportionate response.
