- cross-posted to:
- brainworms@lemm.ee
- cross-posted to:
- brainworms@lemm.ee
Judge has ruled that Donald Trump committed fraud for years while building the real estate empire that catapulted him to fame and the White House.
Judge Arthur Engoron, ruling Tuesday in a civil lawsuit brought by New York’s attorney general, found that the former president and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used in making deals and securing financing.
You must log in or register to comment.
There really should be some DOJ investigation into why the SDNY dropped the case in the first place.
Is he basically just a full-time legal defendant now?
His full-time job is pretending to be a martyr/savior and asking rubes for money.
I sure hope the Republican donor class is neglecting the rest of the 2024 races for the sake of trying in vain to keep Trump out of prison
You reminded me of a video news story from the early 2000s where the news station interviewed a guy, who panhandled while pretending to be a wheelchair bound homeless person in front of Walmart, as a sort of “gotcha” journalism piece. He was totally open and honest about it and was chuckling the entire time. At the end of the piece they asked “so now they we have outed you on tv, how are you going to trick people into giving you money?” He replied, "I’m just going to go over there (while pointing to adjacent stores). “And you think you will get people to give you money?” “Yeah, no one knows who I am and people forget so quickly that it won’t effect me”. (These aren’t exact quotes.)
In a way Trump does the same thing. Everyone forgets his past actions quickly, blames the outcomes on the other party, and just moves on to different allegations he can spin. There’s so much news surrounding him theres little time to actually interpret his actions, and he can just shift gears to another group of downtrodden citizens to swindle if he pisses his supporters off.
deleted by creator
I misread that as “rubles”. Still works.
He always was a full-time legal defendant. I’ll leave this here…
About tree fiddy
Billion
He’s creating jobs!
It only counts as creating jobs if you pay your employees
Paid in exposure
(Legal exposure, since even his lawyers are getting prosecuted)
Get with the times! Not paying employees is all the rage these days!
So why the hell is this a civil suit rather than a criminal one?? Last I checked, bank fraud, insurance fraud, and other fraud are all illegal crimes that are against the law!
Not that I don’t agree with you, but I just want to point out that not all cases of breaking the law are criminal. For example, if you run a red light, a cop won’t throw you in jail for it. You’ll get a fine, though.
Of course, what Trump did should put him in jail.
But seeing his empire dismantle must be more devastating to his ego than the possibility of prison.
Fraud is a crime that can come with jail time though.
if you run a red light, a cop won’t throw you in jail for it. You’ll get a fine, though.
Traffic violations such as that are considered civil offences, not criminal ones. Trump keeps being found guilty of federal crimes in civil courts. There’s no way that someone less rich and powerful would get the same treatment.
You have a point. If I keep running red lights, even after paying fines and having my license suspended, I will be thrown in jail.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Only if you’re a poor.
I am also confused. Why does the attorney general put forward a civil suit in the first place? Civil court is for parties to seek damages or the other party to do or stop doing actions against contractual obligations.
Or did Trump defraud the city of New York and it is seeking compensation?
Or did Trump defraud the city of New York and it is seeking compensation?
Yeah, some of the “other fraud” is tax fraud, so in a very real and direct sense, he defrauded New York. Still doesn’t make sense for it to be a civil suit rather than a criminal one, though.
Must be nice to be rich and powerful enough for your decades of major crimes to count as civil infractions 😮💨
Quite simple. Civil liability standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence, which is far less than the standard of proof of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt in criminal.
The type of suit depends on the type of law violated and the type of injured party. Civil law vs criminal law, etc.
They could potentially bring a related criminal suit later. I’m not an attorney, and there are a lot of specific rules about, but the stakes are lower in a civil case (i.e. no prison) and the burden of proof is easier, so you can more easily prove things or get the defense to admit things in a civil case that can sometimes make a criminal case easier.
Even if you can’t cite the civil case from the criminal case, just the fact that the civil case ruled one way gives the prosecution confidence to commit to a criminal case and leverage if they negotiate a settlement.
Fair enough. I’m gonna be pessimistic in stead of completely dismissive about the possibility of him seeing significant consequences, then 😁
Just FYI, but Trump has been involved with 4,095 lawsuits during his career.
This is a major on though.
https://www.azcentral.com/pages/interactives/trump-lawsuits/
Could be due to the lower threshold for evidence (preponderance vs. beyond a reasonable doubt). Though I would imagine there’s tons of evidence of this since it’s been going on for 4 decades.
Answer to the question you asked: what he’s technically accused of here is defrauding someone and the law will err on the side of “making the aggrieved party whole” (forcing him to give back what he stole) in these cases. After all, if someone ran off with all your money today would you be happier if the government hurt that person or if they made that person give it back to you. Someone steals my money no jail sentence is gonna satisfy me as much as being able to pay my mortgage.
Answer to the question you meant to ask: Takes less evidence to get a civil suit to court, and in the process of prosecuting the civil suit you can get subpoenas for evidence and testimony that can lead to criminal indictments. This is basically getting a foot in the door to look at his taxes, his accounting records and everything else. Wouldn’t be shocked at all if there are criminal indictments on the way.
His coffin must be so large to need this many nails
You are now thinking about that one tennis photo
The one with the poop leakage?
yeah that’s the one
Wait… wut?!
actually I think we’re confusing the tennis and golf photos, based on the original golf photo
and this barely modified tennis one
I wish upon you a bag of dicks which you should eat in its entirety, for having made my look at that ass. Twice.
Bags of dicks received, but they sent an economy size order! I feel bad receiving so much appreciation for so little, so here’s a bonus just for you
No more than 215
And yet there he is, still going free.
It’s a civil case, so yeah. Only financial penalties and business restrictions can result.
WHY, though? When what he’s accused of are crimes and the plaintiff is the NYS Attorney General, why the fuck is it NOT a criminal case??
Because of the types of laws violated in the case is what defines if it’s a criminal or civil trial. There’s definitely criminal cases that can be brought, but the prosecutors don’t seem to think they’re ready to be brought to trial
So pretty much just getting warmed up at this point?
Went to Fox News to find this huge story. Scrolled by 7 non stories to find the headline ‘judge announced ruling on trump case’ with a picture of the judge looking black holding a microphone as if she’s some *political activist,” with no mention that he was found guilty of massive decades long fraud.
FYI the photo you’re referring to is of NY Attorney General Letitia James, not the judge. She looks black because she’s black.
Excellent image-based propaganda, showing Trump clapping which implies he’s celebrating exoneration.
deleted by creator
Please add screenshot. Don’t want to give traffic to them.
It was the first thing I saw when I went to the website, but their description of it is pretty damn accurate.
That headline is accurate but not precise. If they wanted to inform people they could use the same number if words and describe what happened better.
I didn’t mean fox’s headline was accurate, I meant the previous commentor’s description of what fox did was accurate. I guess fox was accurate by technicality, but I would consider it misleading more than anything, what with the vague headline and victorious looking Trump.
Excuse me what the fuck does looking black mean in this context? She is black, of course she looks black…
hell yeah
Engoron ordered that some of Trump’s business licenses be rescinded as punishment, making it difficult or impossible for them to do business in New York, and said he would continue to have an independent monitor oversee the Trump Organization’s operations.
deleted by creator
Yes, read it from another post! As far as I can tell the only Trumps who dodged it are Ivanka and Tiffany.
At this point, who is stupid enough to do business with Trump that would also care if he has a business license?
And why would Trump even pretend to do legitimate business after finding a donation grift that keeps on giving the more trouble he gets in?
who is stupid enough
Republicans
why pretend to do legitimate business
donations laundering
Oh okay, I was a bit confused at first. This is part of the massive civil case, but these are claims within that case that the judge issued summary judgement for. There are still more claims that will go to trial next week.
“Judgment” is the correct spelling in US legal system. Typo or are you from somewhere that uses an “e” in legal usage? Just curious, not picking fight.
Letitia James draws first blood.
I’m not a religious person, but karma is real.
I prefer to call it “justice"
The dildo of justice rarely arrives lubed.
-Socrates
Trump being unalived would be karma. This ain’t that
More just cause and effect. Commit obvious financial crimes on paper for years, you might get caught.
No, if karma was real, we would be seeing significant consequences.
If a man commits a crime with a gun, simply taking away his gun is not enough.
Am I stupid for feeling skeptical still?
They’re dissolving his NY state based companies, that’s very big
What’s especially interesting to me about that is that in certain industries (real estate seems a likely one, insurance is the one I know for certain), other states will ask when granting/renewing licenses whether there has been official action against the licensee and/or a licensed business entity they were an officer/partner of… And decline to issue the same license based on that action.
Not to say the biz can’t continue in, say, FL, but some significant restructuring of officers and the like may be required. I don’t think business licenses or corp filings ask the same questions, but that may vary by state. In either case, this is a bigger problem for him than “not doing business in NY”
Are you stupid for using your five senses and memory of recent events synthesized by your ability to recognize patterns? No. You’re not stupid.
This comment seems misunderstood, judging by the downvotes.
Hahaha was it downvoted? Boost only shows the net. I’m at 1 right now.
Lmao. How does this happen? I think so fucking long and hard before a downvote. I’m validating the person’s insecurity in their sanity!
Dude! You saved the day!
Summary judgement? Nice. Trump’s team didn’t see that coming I bet.
For anyone, like me, who didn’t know what a summary judgement was:
Summary judgment is granted when the facts can be decided upon without needing to go to trial, where the opposing party would lose due to a lack of evidence. If it’s not clear that there is no more evidence, then summary judgment must be denied.
Fun fact: while the word judgment has accepted spellings in US English with or without an “e” after the “g,” US legal system spelling does not have that flexibility. The correct spelling in legal filings is “judgment.” I say this because you have both and it tickles me.
Isn’t this the case where his lawyers screwed up and failed to file paperwork requesting a jury trial, so the judge got to make the ruling on her own?
Let covfefe’s house of cards crumble like the small whiny weenie that he is!
This is the best summary I could come up with:
NEW YORK (AP) — A judge has ruled that Donald Trump committed fraud for years while building the real estate empire that catapulted him to fame and the White House.
Judge Arthur Engoron, ruling Tuesday in a civil lawsuit brought by New York’s attorney general, found that the former president and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used in making deals and securing financing.
The decision, days before the start of a non-jury trial in Attorney General Letitia James’ lawsuit, is the strongest repudiation yet of Trump’s carefully coiffed image as a wealthy and shrewd real estate mogul turned political powerhouse.
Beyond mere bragging about his riches, Trump, his company and key executives repeatedly lied about them on his annual financial statements, reaping rewards such as favorable loan terms and lower insurance premiums, Engoron found.
Those tactics crossed a line and violated the law, the judge said, rejecting Trump’s contention that a disclaimer on the financial statements absolved him of any wrongdoing.
Manhattan prosecutors had looked into bringing a criminal case over the same conduct but declined to do so, leaving James to sue Trump and seek penalties that could disrupt his and his family’s ability to do business in the state.
The original article contains 345 words, the summary contains 215 words. Saved 38%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Syracuse decided they had one too many orangemen
Schadenfreude up the wazoo
