This is a pretty great, long form post about the structure of Bluesky, and how it’s largely kinda pretending to be decentralized at the moment. I’m not trying to make a dig at it. I’ve enjoyed the platform myself for a while, but it’s good to learn more about how it actually works.

This article was shared on Mastodon via its author here.

    • Telorand@reddthat.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      22
      ·
      1 month ago

      I’m not even sure it can, unless they want to pay server operators. Who would do that for free for a for-profit company? And if they’re ultimately supported by the top, they’re still centralized.

      Not that it’s super expensive to run a server, but it ain’t free; at least in a place like the Fediverse, every transaction is voluntary all the way down to the financial support, because any part may choose to participate or leave as they see fit.

      I don’t see how BlueSky can replicate that and still chase profit.

  • zingo@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    32
    ·
    edit-2
    1 month ago

    I’m staying on Lemmy and off Bluesky.

    I seek and spread knowledge from/to helpful lemmings and not interested in another Twitter wannabe gossip app, hopping on the “decentralized” train to grain traction.

    • jaxiiruff@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      edit-2
      1 month ago

      This gossip app is meant for artists and other internet celebrities that think they are cool making their opinions to be fact. Extreme left is insufferable right now as a moderate. They have tripled down in all the worst ways which makes it annoying and frustrating to ignore.

      I always liked reddit better since people actually discussed real things. Since I jumped ship to lemmy I feel even less inclined to bother with anything else. However reddit was way better for certain stuff like artists or creators.

        • jaxiiruff@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 month ago

          Yes Ive been on bsky since early this year and really enjoyed it until everyone on the platform started kicking up dust over the election completely overreacting and spazzing out spewing the most idiotic things about identity politics, third party voters, trump being hitler, fascists it just lost all meaning. I used to be democrat and now consider myself moderate at this point and I just cant stomach following those kind of people anymore.

          Not to mention childish adding labels on everyone and blocklists to decent people just completely power tripping cancel culture x10. Then all of a sudden I feel like its twitter all over again and I become incredibly annoyed at myself thinking it would ever change. Microblogging is so fucking stupid.

      • bobalot@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 month ago

        I always liked reddit better since people actually discussed real things.

        😂

        I was on there for 10 years and it has been nothing but a massive circlejerk for the majority of the subs with obvious bots and astrosurfing.

  • Sentient Loom@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    29
    ·
    1 month ago

    I’m probably not going to read the article. But there’s currently just one bluesky instance, so it’s 100% centralized, not decentralized at all.

    Jack was talking about the “protocol” at one point… I don’t think that matters at all right now. It’s just another social media site!

  • doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    29
    ·
    1 month ago

    Presently? Hardly at all. It is interesting that a private Corp is even seriously playing with building a decentralized platform, I guess.

    The files are out there to host your own server but from the short look I took it’s pretty involved. Most people with the knowledge and interest to host their own twitter-like server have probably already started a mastodon instance.

    • zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      1 month ago

      It reminds me of what Google tried to do initially with Google+. They copied Diaspora’s concept of aspects, calling them “circles”. Over time, though, using the circles became more and more janky until they removed them entirely. Then, of course, Google+ got shuttered completely over security issues.

      Likewise, “federation” and “decentralization” are the new hotness in social networks, so here’s a big corporation looking to cash in on that. Of course, real decentralization would take too much power away from the corporation, so they have to half-ass it somehow.

      • doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        30 days ago

        “federation” and “decentralization” are the new hotness in social networks,

        Are they? I think it only seems like that from inside the fediverse. As far as blue sky goes I think the new hotness is just getting the hell away from anything to do with elon

  • Patch@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    22
    ·
    1 month ago

    That’s a really interesting read (and worth much more attention than the pithy one-liners of people who just want to read the title).

    On reflection, I think my take away is that Bluesky will always by necessity of its design be hosted and controlled by a single centralised company. But what their architectural model does allow is the possibility of a wholesale migration from one centralised provider to another. That is, it would be possible for a suitably resourced and motivated company to host its own mirror Relay and other components and have essentially a fully functional Bluesky clone. In the event that Bluesky ever “does a Twitter” and go into terminal decline, in theory this might mean that a successor/competitor could emerge and take on the network without loss of existing content.

    I’m not sure that’ll ever actually happen, but it’s an interesting thought.

    • garretble@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      17
      ·
      1 month ago

      That’s addressed in the blog post. She was saying it was currently 5TB and growing. So anyone wanting to set up a server would need to pay for that space, and that’s not cheap.

      • doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        16
        ·
        edit-2
        1 month ago

        It’s also not, like, unattainable

        But it’s definitely well beyond what any hobbyist is going to set up in a whim

        • eleitl@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          1 month ago

          Meh, homelab storage and FTTH are reasonably cheap. Or rented iron like Hetzner.

    • zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      1 month ago

      I thought it takes that much storage to run a relay, not an instance. (Which Bluesky calls a “Personal Data Store.”)

      Maybe this is just my ignorance showing, but this seems like a really archaic way to design something like this in 2024. Dump all the data into a central repository and then have clients pull from that?

      • TORFdot0@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        30 days ago

        It’s not exactly decentralized if you use the official relay only, just distributed which is a different concept entirely

  • Randomgal@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    12
    ·
    1 month ago

    What’s funny is that the only shit people get from DeCeNtRaLiZaTioN is inconvenience and dying engagement.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      30 days ago

      Incorrect. That’s the only thing people notice. The benefit is not having one central authority in control. If Bluesky decides to, for some reason, not allow third-party apps or something, there’s no way to prevent it. If Lemmy.world, for example, does this then they don’t have the authority to enforce it.

      The benefit of federation is in removing hierarchy that can harm the platform without the consent of its users. It’s invisible because it’s only preventing something. This does not mean it isn’t beneficial though.

      • Randomgal@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        25 days ago

        “Removing hierarchy”. Lol what? The instance owner is boss of the instance. Are you suggesting it’s different just because here it is a totally reliable* leftist* dude in the Internet who decides what to do instead of… A random guy who owns a company?

        What happens when the money runs out and you face the reality that running a platform is a business, not a hobby? As has been happening with many instances lately.

        • Cethin@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          24 days ago

          The instance owner owns the instance, but it’s limited to that. That is the minimum level possible. There has to be a server somewhere. On Lemmy you can always leave for another instance or start your own. On Reddit your options are to do what the company wants or leave the entire site. You can’t just log into a different server.

  • j4p@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    5
    ·
    1 month ago

    More than Twitter. Less than Mastodon. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

    • Nima@leminal.space
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      13
      ·
      1 month ago

      if there is, I haven’t seen any. ive been using it quite a bit. its probably like most social media where if you don’t engage with that kind of content, it doesn’t show it to you.

    • DomeGuy@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      1 month ago

      Thats not really what happens, unless you’re so toxic that old-twitter would actually ban you.

      Bsky has a “nuclear block”, that essentially removes you and the target from even existing on the version of the site each other see. If you’re ok with just talking to folk who are on your side of a “no, shutup” line, like “trans women are women” or “trans is a mental disorder” you’ll be fine.

      The issue is that a bunch of folk who abscribe to the second apparently just want to troll the first, so they get blocked by their targets, have no fun, and then complain to reporters still on twitter.

        • Lumidaub@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 month ago

          “They” don’t have that. Most labellers are user made and people can subscribe to them or not.

            • Lumidaub@feddit.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              1 month ago

              I do think it matters a lot whether it’s a thing the app offers natively to everybody or something certain users have implemented on their own and that other users can choose to use or not. You don’t blame the contents of a mod on the game itself, do you?

              • solrize@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                30 days ago

                If there’s a widely used mod that makes the game worse, that’s a good reason to not play the game. It doesn’t matter who made the mod. Using the mod (e.g. an aim bot in a shooter game) is toxic user behavior and if the game ops tolerate it, they deserve blame too.

                • Lumidaub@feddit.org
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  ·
                  30 days ago

                  Is it “widely used”? An aim bot directly affects everybody else, actively making the game worse. This only affects a small number of people who choose to opt-in and trust the labeller’s opinion. I can’t even find that labeller and I learnt about it from you. And again, it’s not BSky that offers the labeller - that IS an important distinction.

        • WalnutLum@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 month ago

          The way some moderation lists (ban/labeling) work is algorithmic.

          You can actually host one of these services yourself!

    • flying_gel@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      11
      ·
      edit-2
      1 month ago

      I tried to look this up but I couldn’t find much. The “worst” I found was this:

      Some users have expressed concerns about the platform’s moderation practices, suggesting that the community’s emphasis on inclusivity and respect may lead to over-sensitivity, where even minor disagreements or differing opinions are met with significant backlash. This environment can create a perception of excessive policing of content, potentially discouraging open dialogue.

      Where are you reading that people are saying that it’s worse than twitter? Is it right wing people that are saying that because they put emphasis on inclusivity and respect?

      • CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        ·
        1 month ago

        That’s exactly what it is. The trolls and bot runners and MAGA chuds are pissed that we can completely prevent them from interacting with us there. And with curated blocklists it doesn’t even require work for the average user.

        They can come to bsky but they’ll just be screaming at each other while the rest of us talk about cool stuff.

        • Drunemeton@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 month ago

          It’s one of the best features of bsky!

          Lists, feeds, starter packs, and moderation tools that work, have all led to a very vibrant and engaging social media experience!

          The user base isn’t afraid of quickly dealing with antisocial behavior.

          You can tell which way your media outlets position themselves by how they report on this aspect of bsky. Egalitarians will cast it in a positive light, while Elitists will cast it in a negative light.