- cross-posted to:
- ontario@lemmy.ca
- canadapolitics@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- ontario@lemmy.ca
- canadapolitics@lemmy.ca
BACKGROUND
Joanna Berry is a Canadian immigration and refugee lawyer in Ontario, Canada. On October 2, two Niagara Police Officers, one of them a sergeant detective, paid her a visit to her home. They told her they were there on behalf of the Ottawa Police Department because of her “personal social media.” They begin to tell her that “10 lawyers who are of the Jewish faith” have filed a complaint with the police about her social media. As you can tell from the video, Joanna Berry, is outraged by the visit and clearly distraught. I reached out to the Niagara Regional Police for comment but they did not respond to my inquiry. I spoke with Joanna Berry also and she gave OTL Media permission to publish the video. She told us that she wants Canadians to see it and for the video to be a warning.
“This is very Orwellian”
On The Line Media is run by Samira Mohyeddin, a multi-award-winning journalist, documentary maker, and producer at CBC Radio One’s The Current.
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US, Germany, France, Australia and now Canada. With every new country i hear suppressing legitimate Israeli criticism it makes me want to criticize Israel even further.
I am extremely apalled at the actions of Israel and at the identity of Israel itself.
It is hyperbolic to say that this incident proves that the nation or country of Canada is suppressing Israeli criticism. You heard of an incident that occurred in Canada. Don’t lose touch. There is not a cabal of “ten jewish lawyers” controlling Canada.
Please don’t conflate plain, basic criticism with antisemitism. Nobody said anything about a “Jewish cabal controlling Canada”. It is fair to question the extent to which some nations support Israel for their own geopolitical reasons.
I’m not saying the government of Canada itself is pushing down a narrative, or the Premier. I understand no such cabal of Jewish zionists exists.
However, when the institutions that protect Canada, such as the Police, are involved in this quasi Zeitgeist around several democratic countries to suppress criticism against Israel, that is just something that i believe we should be unwilling to accept for ourselves.
Whether it is motivated by historical guilt, zionist influence of key members of society, Israeli back door lobbying to protect its interests, anti muslim sentiment, terrorism fear or even just a misunderstood political correctness, it matters not. It is present between us and it is alarming. Many of Israeli actions go against our fundamental values and they should never be above criticism.
Don’t know anymore honestly/s. People who speak out against Israel seem to be quietly canceled or let go in Hollywood. But I can totally see how this is going to foster conspiracy theories for a long time.
I would bet lots of money her posts didn’t simply “criticize Israel”
For everyone’s information, I support our Liberal government and I do support any of our current governments (even if I disagree with them politically) because I still believe in the rule of law everywhere. I don’t subscribe to wild conspiracy theories about any democratically elected government.
However, I still hold that we should always be ready to question and hold our government, police and those in power accountable for everything they say, do or on how they direct those under them.
The actions of these police is a step too far in intimidating someone with personal views. As she explained, those who disagree with her views should speak to their company, talk to the social media company or speak to other authorities … you don’t go straight to the police to ask them to intimidate a political opponent.
We have to stand up to this level of bullying and intimidation. This isn’t Canada. This isn’t what I support. This isn’t our government and this is not representative of our country.
I personally found the part where they tell her to not contact certain people. Which people? It’s never mentioned in the video. Is she just not supposed to say anything on social media again? How is that a reasonable response?
Now, if she was being blocked and creating new accounts to harass people, that would be more reasonable. Or if she was actually convicted of a crime. But until then, the police should just have to learn the difficult fact of life that people may not agree without any laws being broken.
It’s pretty clear from what they’re saying that it was her comments targeting people that were the problem, not posts about Israel. She doesn’t even deny it, she’s just pissed off they complained to the police that she was harassing them.
The single biggest reason I don’t think anything she did was actionable is that the likely people who are complaining are lawyers. If they thought they had a clear case, they would have sent a C&D or filed a harassment suit, especially with Canada’s less stringent requirements. If she was contacting individuals, they can block her. It seems pretty clear none of these things happened, or the police would have been more forceful. So at best we’re wasting police resources, at worst having the government engage in intimidation when no crimes were committed.
I stopped believing in the rule of law as an actual reality in Canada or anything more than an ideal in June 2010.
Was that the kettling incident? G20 in Toronto. The only time I’ve seen a police car set on fire in Canada. And the first use of tear gas in the City of Toronto.
Allegedly, “black bloc” troublemakers, started the property destruction. Whether this was done with tacit approval by police is an open question. Needless to say, police responses to protests on the days of the sunmit were found to be lacking.
Oh, btw, still, fuck John Baird and definitely fuck Tony Clement. My introduction to fuckery in Canada’s politics came from watching these two refuse to answer questions in Parliament for months. The one person I saw trying to hold these two Harper cabinet ministers to account was good ol’ Charlie Angus.
That said, fuckery is now status quo and Charlie Angus has said he’ll not seek re-election.
Vancouver playoff riots didn’t police cars get burnt then.
Was that G7/8 kettling?
So let me get this straight.
This is claiming that the Liberal government got ahold of the Ottawa police (not the RCMP, and ran by an independent politician, not a Liberal) to go to Niagara (almost 6 hours drive away) to talk to this person about their social media posts. And only this person seems to know anything about it, no other news channel, Liberal or Conservative.
And it’s been already three days and still only they are mentioning about it…
I never said that the government or any government had a hand in doing or directing any of this.
I don’t know who or why this was done … the disturbing part of this story is that it happened and it should be investigated further. Police shouldn’t be used by any government/institution/group/individual to intimidate political/cultural/religious rivals.
The additional disturbing part of this is that yes you are right … there doesn’t seem to be any media coverage about this … even though advocates have made a media release about it themselves …
As I also mentioned, the story and video were also released by Samira Mohyeddin, a multi-award-winning journalist, documentary maker, and producer at CBC Radio One’s The Current.
I don’t think someone with a career like Mohyeddin would put her reputation on the line just to release a video that wasn’t credible. She released it on her own media platform ‘On The Line Media’ but she is still a recognized and acclaimed journalist.
This is a highly disturbing story because it happened and it is also deeply disturbing that it is also being completely ignored.
You are correct … we should keep asking questions about this to verify everything … but it should also be equally disturbing that no one wants to touch this story or even acknowledge it.
For the first part, you pretty much did imply it was a government thing in your post I replied to.
As for someone like Mohyeddin release a video like that with her credit on the line, sure she would. People have done this in the past for the right amount. Think doctors that promote cigarettes, petrol backed scientists that deny harms, Bernie Madoff (before he started the Ponzi scheme), Rudy Giuliani was a large and respected lawyer at one point that in the 80s took on the Five Families mafias in New York. I could keep this list going. And conspiracy theories are big business right now, some people would put their reputation on the line for a huge payout.
This feels less real (as no one of either side of politics has even attempted to touch on this) and more like Alex Jones level of reporting.
Now, yes, I could be wrong, but it just doesn’t pass the feel test for me. More clickbaity and with trigger words to get even more attention.
have filed a complaint with the police about her social media
Can I file complaints with the police about all the racist, bigoted, right-wing stuff I see from locals online?
Sure. But they’re still gonna come and harass you.
Well facism is already here and like last time, nobody noticed it being slipped in🤡
We’re the frog in the pot of water … they just turned up the heat and we don’t care … we won’t do anything until we’re boiled alive, but by then, it’ll be too late.
I did finally watch the video. It is shameful to see Niagara Police Officers deployed for some threatening intent. It’s what she said, fascist bullying. I would still like more context, but holy crickets those two cops are clowns.
Freedom of speech strikes again
Propaganda strikes again
This sounds bizarre and I need more context and information. Why is your only link a yt video? That shit takes forever to load.
Yeah, it sounded like the detectives(…?) were going to lay out some of the details of the complaint, but she get-the-fuck-out’d them before they got there.
It matters quite a lot IMO what she was doing. Are we talking about dozens of harrassing/threatening DMs on multiple platforms? Or are we talking about heated comments on public posts? She said “I never threatened anyone,” etc. but that’s what they all say. I’m not suggesting she’s lying, there’s just no signal.
I hope we get to see the posts in question at some point.
She said she commented on their posts ( that she claimed were anti muslim). if they don’t want her commenting you just block the person. But yeah, we need more info. However cops showing up based on a complaint when you have done nothing illegal is a bit thoughtpolicey
Yeah, I share your feeling that it feels thought-policey and troubling. But my guard is just a little bit up in the other direction too, maybe because I saw this right after this thread, where a guy was in an online argument with a woman and essentially threatened her family by driving to another city, finding her dad in the hospital, and taking a selfie next to him… Then he posted it in a public comment thread where she would see it.
With that information, it’s clear that he’s the bad guy… But I can see how if we just heard his side, with all of the condemning details omitted, it could be super easy to get baited into reacting like “Wtf, you can’t even take a selfie in this country anymore?”
His defense was “I was merely trying to win an online argument,” which thankfully, the judge thought was nonsense. I don’t think it was dystopian for the cops to show up at his house and say “You’ve done some harmful things online, and here are some consequences.” (I actually don’t know if cops showed up or he just got a court date or what, but you know what I mean)
So there are many ways that this story isn’t equivalent to that story, but I was already primed to be like… “Oh okay well what were the posts?” The window of potential reactions is pretty wide based on the answer to that.
I agree with you, I’m also missing context. I agree this looks very fishy for the police to be paying her a visit with the “you are walking a line” comment, but without knowing all the details, I’m reluctant to jump into definitive conclusions. I really hope this story gets picked up by media so we at least get that side as well, however imperfect it might be.
It’s only a link to a YouTube video because it’s the only place it exists. Which should raise some serious warning bells. No Liberal or Conservative news outlet has anything about this.
I’m not saying it’s fake, but it’s only on this one site, by this one person, who supposedly has a huge history in news media who wouldn’t have a hard time getting it into any other news channel (even ones that could link to her) seems… Odd. But hey, don’t forget to join her Patreon page.
Because YouTube is one of the more effective places to spread propaganda.
I cannot find any information about this clip being reported anywhere else.
… as I mentioned and responded to someone else on this thread …
I don’t know who or why this was done … the disturbing part of this story is that it happened and it should be investigated further. Police shouldn’t be used by any government/institution/group/individual to intimidate political/cultural/religious rivals.
The additional disturbing part of this is that yes you are right … there doesn’t seem to be any media coverage about this … even though advocates have made a media release about it themselves …
As I also mentioned, the story and video were also released by Samira Mohyeddin, a multi-award-winning journalist, documentary maker, and producer at CBC Radio One’s The Current.
I don’t think someone with a career like Mohyeddin would put her reputation on the line just to release a video that wasn’t credible. She released it on her own media platform ‘On The Line Media’ but she is still a recognized and acclaimed journalist.
This is a highly disturbing story because it happened and it is also deeply disturbing that it is also being completely ignored.
You are right in pointing out the lack of coverage … we should keep asking questions about this to verify everything … but it should also be equally disturbing that no one wants to touch this story or even acknowledge it.
Their job was to inform her, we have a rule of law in this country
Police are meant to inform people about breaking serious laws. We don’t send the police to intimidate someone because they said something bad about a different country.
Plus … if someone has a disagreement about a political opponent … then debate online … if that doesn’t work, complain to the business, complain to their company, complain to the social media company that is hosting the messages.
We don’t jump to the nuclear option and ask the local police to go knocking on people’s doors.
If that were the case, I’d like to ask the local police to a visit a few people that made me feel bad.
Thing is, they didn’t seem to have brought anything to inform her of. If they want to come out of it looking like anything but witless fascist goons trying to intimidate someone, they’re going to need to be a lot more specific than “unwanted messages” to unspecified persons.
She seems to think it was someone she replied to on twitter. I reply to random people on here all the time, just like I’m doing now. If it’s unwanted, by all means send the netiquette cops to my house I guess, we’ll see if I’m able to suppress my derisive laughter long enough to get a video half as good as this one out of it.
Facist goons are the ones pulling the strings. You can hate all you want but it’s clear who the enemy is.
She was notified that there was a complaint against her, unfortunately we still believe in informing people in person for this. Imagine she got an email instead.
Except it wasn’t just a notification that there’s been a complaint. It was “no more unwanted messages, please.”
Aside from that it could be somewhat reasonable if there really is sufficient evidence to suggest that a criminal complaint is warranted. That seems unlikely, but I suppose we should keep an open mind. In the absence of someone digging up some really damning stuff from social media it looks a whole lot more like a lawyerly — and presumably therefore less illegal — attempt at something like “swatting”, albeit a less violent version. The police should know better than to let themselves be used like that, but a lifetime of experience leads me to suspect that maybe they do not.
The police regularly dismiss unfounded reports without additional action, it’s how they’re supposed to respond. They’re not supposed to tell people “this thing you’re doing is neither illegal or harmful and the people who got upset had to search for it to find it, but they did get upset so you should stop”
Disgusting
Removed by mod
?
They didn’t warn her over her social media posts on Israel. They warned her over her messages targeting specific people, who complained to the police about harassment. Important difference.
If that were the case … they’d have these officers working overtime doing nothing but sending them around warning people about sending messages to specific people about things that were said on the internet and causing harassment.
These are police officers with more important things to do than to warn people about harassment issues.
The biggest offence about this issue is the fact that police were used to go to someone’s house because of a harassment issue … if its so easy for police to do that I have people I’d like the police to go visit and I’m sure you do too but we both know that will never happen.
It’s the early stages of a fascist ideology … it is very disturbing and very discomforting.
I don’t disagree it’s a waste of police resources. But that’s not the point. The point is the misleading propaganda that creates the false impression that the government is monitoring your social media posts and showing up at your house because you post something negative about Israel.
It’s not a false impression because that is exactly what happened here … it isn’t the government that is monitoring all this crap and knocking on people’s doors … and I never said that was the case … but there are bad actors within these institutions that decided somewhere along the line to think that - someone said something we disagree with, we should send the police to intimidate them.
If you don’t like what is said online, you disagree with a message, you complain to the person, you complain to the site owner, you complain to the media owner, … you keep escalating your complaint to another higher authority … you don’t launch the nuclear option and get the police to tell someone about your complaint right from the start.
The video opens with the claim that police visited her because of her social media posts that were critical of Israel.
When you finally get to the point where she lets the officers speak, they reveal that they are there on complaints of “unwanted messages to specific lawyers,” to which she responds, “Nobody told me not to message them.”
So clearly the issue was that she was sending problematic messages directly to people, and those messages were concerning enough to warrant a visit from the police. They would not waste their time showing up at someone’s house like this unless there was sufficient cause to open an investigation.
