You might sideload an Android app, or manually install its APK package, if you’re using a custom version of Android that doesn’t include Google’s Play Store. Alternately, the app might be experimental, under development, or perhaps no longer maintained and offered by its developer. Until now, the existence of sideload-ready APKs on the web was something that seemed to be tolerated, if warned against, by Google.
This quiet standstill is being shaken up by a new feature in Google’s Play Integrity API. As reported by Android Authority, developer tools to push “remediation” dialogs during sideloading debuted at Google’s I/O conference in May, have begun showing up on users’ phones. Sideloaders of apps from the British shop Tesco, fandom app BeyBlade X, and ChatGPT have reported “Get this app from Play” prompts, which cannot be worked around. An Android gaming handheld user encountered a similarly worded prompt from Diablo Immortal on their device three months ago.
Google’s Play Integrity API is how apps have previously blocked access when loaded onto phones that are in some way modified from a stock OS with all Google Play integrations intact. Recently, a popular two-factor authentication app blocked access on rooted phones, including the security-minded GrapheneOS. Apps can call the Play Integrity API and get back an “integrity verdict,” relaying if the phone has a “trustworthy” software environment, has Google Play Protect enabled, and passes other software checks.
Graphene has questioned the veracity of Google’s Integrity API and SafetyNet Attestation systems, recommending instead standard Android hardware attestation. Rahman notes that apps do not have to take an all-or-nothing approach to integrity checking. Rather than block installation entirely, apps could call on the API only during sensitive actions, issuing a warning there. But not having a Play Store connection can also deprive developers of metrics, allow for installation on incompatible devices (and resulting bad reviews), and, of course, open the door to paid app piracy.
If the Play Store becomes required like that then Android’s already-shaky status as an open source base platform is going to go out the window. I’m glad there are non-Google distros of Android but there really needs to be more of a push to make a completely FOSS phone platform.
There are Linux phones available. I,m going to guess popularity of those devices to increase soon.
That was the hope with Android, too.
The problem is that as the OS is “free” that means it costs less functionally for the device manufacturer to get an OS on the device, so now they can pour more money into bloatware.
Android was supposed to stop bloatware but all it did was enable it.
Even without a forced “store” Linux is prey to the same issue of piecemeal support from various vendors all with in-house solutions that all stink.
At this point, even that would be preferable.
Your right, any open platform will be bastardized eventually, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t still a need for “resets”.
There is no perfect platform for escaping it, because the market forces will always adapt and assimilate. The only true escape is to keep moving.
That’s why it’s important for users to be hermit crabs, and move to the next thing, no matter how janky, because they will at least be able to influence it positively and have a relatively open platform for a number of years. Then the cycle repeats.
If propping up Linux phones will get us the open platform we need, even if only temporarily, we should do it.
The issue I think is that the current trends in all consumer software are increasingly user hostile, and the major platforms are creating ecosystems to support this. It’s become the norm now to be able to directly control the usage of the software on consumer devices. Apple has normalized this, Google and Microsoft followed.
At what point will developers refuse to even create software for a system that doesn’t allow them that control?
Look at how many developers out there absolutely jerk themselves raw at the idea they should be able to compel users to update to continue using their software. Look at how many believe the modern security culture fallacy that handcuffing users and throwing away the key is the only way to protect them.
It’s a development culture issue. Respecting user control of their own device is no longer in vogue.
As much as I want that to be the case, I don’t think full mobile gnu+Linux is really ready to use daily?
I haven’t exactly been keeping up with things, mind you
I sub to a few mobile Linux feeds and I want but don’t at all think mobile Linux is ready, even for tech devotees. Too battery hungry, not enough ease of use, missing functions, etc. And that’s not including lack of apps.
Sailfish gets closest so far I think. But yes, not ready. Ubuntu touch last time I tried is fine but still a bit out of sorts.
Yes. I think a huge issue is Linux doesn’t handle other app activities like how Android’s Intent or Broadcast does.
I used it as my daily phone for months, and… well, I’m willing to deal with the problems. Without pretty careful battery management it’s not feasible, and it’s hard to manage your battery given the glitches. I often found my phone dead after a couple hours because it woke the screen immediately after I locked it because… reasons, and then kept it awake until the battery died. The biggest issue aside stuff like that (small issues that cause big problems), the biggest issue was I couldn’t get a map app working. There are some distros with working maps, none for my phone. Also call quality was horrendous. Like. I’m known for being able to tolerate bad quality, but this was, at times, about as bad as I remember my firefly phone being when I was 12, and I could not feasibly understand people at times with that thing.
But the only reason I stopped using it was because the wifi isn’t working on it. Once I get that back up and running I’ll likely switch back to it. As bad as it can be at times, I still feel more comfortable having that as my primary phone than my Android.
Really appreciate the insight
Just a note, one of if not the most popular mobile Linux distro is PostmarketOS, which is not GNU (it’s based on Alpine)
Good to know, that’s not the one I had in mind, however.
For whatever reason I thought PMOS was based on Manjaro. Could be something as silly as associating one green logo with another.
I,m going to guess popularity of those devices to increase soon.
I don’t want to be pessimistic about it, however I think it’s gonna be like Windows: enshittification will happen, but inconvenience is “too small” for people that they’ll rather check for a workaround than leave the platform.
My guess is that we need something more appealing like the Steam Deck to make people take the step.
My guess is that we need something more appealing like the Steam Deck to make people take the step.
Hear me out! The Steam Phone®!
Steam’s UI is tolerable, but inconsistent. In a SteamDeck, OK, but in a phone? Idk.
I get that this isn’t meant that seriously.
I’d be happy with 2010 era desktop Linux level of support. It doesn’t need to get everybody to switch, just needs to be good enough for my needs.
Sadly the only people who would switch over to an actual Linux phone would be the people like the stereotypical Linux using Lemmy user. The average android user would just continue on like nothing happened because they’re not tech literate enough to know what’s going on or why they should care.
Hey! I bought this android cus Im Tech literate u-u
Though im not one bit familiar with Linux.
But part of the appeal of Linux is the fact that you can repurpose existing computers running other OSes to run Linux instead. This is a great way to lower the barrier to entry for Linux, because it’s easy to test it on a Live USB or a dual boot. It’s much harder to do this on phones because they have locked bootloaders.
Another problem is that phones are not productivity devices - they’re consumption devices. Maybe this is just my personal bias, but I don’t think people will be as passionate about liberating their phones because they’re inherently less useful than computers. Convenient, yes, but useful? Not as much.
That said, I would love to be proven wrong. I would definitely consider a Linux phone if they become more popular/useful, but I can’t really justify spending hundreds of euros/dollars on something for which I don’t see any particular use.
When I say Linux phones, I mean selling a phone with Linux already or Linux ready, not taking existing phones with Android and putting Linux on them.
Examples:
Purism Librem 5
PinePhone Pro
Pro1 X
Volla Phone X23
There aren’t, really. There are a few antiques and half baked things.
A big problem is that these days, unless you’re the size of Apple or Samsung, it’s impossible to get a reasonable hardware soc and modem other than one which only runs a soon obsolete blob laden android which is going to be EOL before you’ve even finished your design.
The hardware is not there. The firmware/hw data/platform isn’t there even to begin OS work with. And there’s a global shipping, regulation and mobile operator hell waiting on the other side. And a product lifecycle that’s only a few years long.
Yes, I’ve worked for phone manufacturers.
The more I think about it, this may finally convince me to…shudders…switch to an iPhone. I’ve always stayed on Android because despite the recent Google bullshit, it still for the most part lets me do whatever. Side-loading apks is a huge part of that.
If it’s turning into a shittier iOS clone, what’s the point?
Don’t do IOS, it’s such a pain. It took us 2 days to figure out how to play an audio book file that I was able to download an F-droid app for and play in like 3 minutes.
Yup that sounds about right for iOS.
Meant more that if Android ends up in the same boat (and by the looks of it, that’s exactly what Google and Samsung want), then iOS starts to look viable because the situation becomes: all the same bullshit but iOS is polished to a shine.
Don’t plan on switching phones until my less than year old Note 9 kicks the bucket 😅
Can you side load on ios?
Seems like the kind of thing they wouldn’t want you to do?
Seems stupid of them to crackdown on sideloading given their recent and ongoing monopoly spanking.
There are Linux mobile operating systems like PostmarketOS, but they are too early in development to be used by most people.
Murena phones look promising. And you can download their e/OS if you want to flash the phone you have, provided it’s supported. https://murena.com
Just the term “side loading” instantly frames installing software on a device you own as something shady.
Yes, that’s the implication, and it’s certainly intentional for you to think of it like that.
The fact that an entire generation thinks the only proper way to install software is through an app store is absolutely terrible. Talk about a boon for the gatekeepers, Apple and Google did a bang up job training them to trust no one else.
Schools and universities in principle should be the place where they’re introduced to what really means to own a computer. The trend however seems to give out everyone a locked down e-waste with proprietary restrictions all over the place.
I don’t think you appreciate the real reason for “schooling”
As a long time linux user i find it normal to only install apps through a package manager (essentially the same) but you have a defined API for package sources and can add sources as you like. that would be the best solution. manually installing apps IS risky, and opens the door for malware and incompatible packages, but if you have a trustworthy package source that your packa manager can varify its packages against it gets way better.
A package manager and app-store, which looks very similar from the outside, operates very differently with respect to security and privacy.
Microsoft saw Google and Apple do this with phones, and Steam do this with games, and that’s why they made the Windows store a thing starting with 8.
They wanted to go the same direction.
Put steam with the rest of these parasites ain’t fair… For now
“side-loading” is literally the norm on Windows and Linux
This poster gets it!
What is a “trustworthy software environment”?
Does that mean that it will get mad and fail you for having Developer options enabled? Having F-Droid installed? Having it plugged into a computer?
There’s a bank here that refuses to let you log into their app if you have developer options enabled. Their service was getting much better until that point, but I dropped them completely after that.
I use developer options to get better screen density on my large ass screen, and to you know…develop apps 🤷♂️
FUCK THESE ASSHOLES WHO THINK THEY CAN TELL ME WHAT I CAN AND CAN NOT DO WITH MY PHONE
People seriously need to start pushing back on the word “secure” being used as a blanket excuse for every restriction.
It feels like every time that word is used, no one is willing to call out the fact that user freedom is equally as important and it’s a lazy, disrespectful developer who won’t take that into account by finding ways to maintain both.
The Papa Murphy’s app does this as well, it’s ridiculous
Removed by mod
U joke but that’s where we are going
Removed by mod
According to the dumbfucks making the government application of Belgium (to read official communication) trustworthy means having developer mode disabled.
Androids best advantage used to be full control of the device… Those were the days. Then it started with saying they know better than you, then locking you out. Now I’m waiting on a new, better solution.
Honestly it’s not like native Linux is too far fetched, but there would have to be a big open source common ground device collaboration.
Man I really hate how they stripped your permissions to access the internal and external storage, files can no longer access data from other apps even if you say allow all file access. Also if your phone supports SD cards, you might notice that you don’t have write access to it for some reason on later versions of android. (I really struggled with this with my Galaxy S9 on Lineage), had to use apps that remounted my SD card and what not
Waiting for steamphone
Google and Apple have come out against legislation that would broaden sideloading rights for smartphone owners, citing security and reliability concerns.
Fuck off google.
…as I upvote you from my Pixel. ☹️ I give the sad face because Google isn’t who they once were and I’m just going to have to deal with that.
Never ask a company to pick between the right thing and profit. It was all a matter of time till Google needed to stop growing and start producing profit for investors.
To make it worse the Pixel 9 starts at $800 just like iPhone. So if you’re buying Android you don’t really save money over an iPhone like you used to.
Never ask a company to pick between the right thing and profit.
It’s fundamentally impossible for a publicly traded company not to choose profit over ‘The Right Thing’, fullstop. Shareholders feel that have a fundamental right to growth, and if Google’s CEO were to choose ‘The Right Thing’ over profit, the shareholders can oust them in favor of a CEO willing to choose profits.
Enshittification is where every public company ends up, because the line MUST go up, no other alternative is acceptable.
Google and apple you can let us worry about our security ourselves, thank you, though I’m sure you have our best interests in mind and only that
What’s the point of having an android phone then? I fucking hate android so much, but I only use it, not iOS, because of sideloading.
OfIf they take that away from us then why not just get an iPhone then? Our only hope is Linux phones picking up a little.This is just Google’s clever way of not removing the sideloading feature from their OS.
They let app developers to prevent users from using sideloaded app.
This way they can avoid antitrust lawsuits.
I have high hopes for apps like lucky patcher and Revanced manager to help us avoid this bullshit
One reason would be that with an iPhone, you’re paying two to five times the price of an Android phone with comparable hardware.
Hardware isn’t everything. Apple has a couple of advantages over iPhone that let them do more with less:
- iOS needs to support a MUCH fewer devices than Android. Even before they switched to their own silicon, they’ve been optimizing the OS to the hardware really well giving you devices that go toe to toe with Android flagships of the same generation with SIGNIFICANTLY better hardware and like double the RAM. Also why Apple doesn’t really care to increase RAM as much as the android side of things.
- Apple silicon is actually really good and making their own hardware allows them to optimize on both sides of the equation and lets them do more with less.
The selling points for Android (at least the way I’ve seen it over the years) have always been full control (talking about non-root, I’d rather not go down the root rabbit hole here) and (since iPhone 11 started doing firmware blocks on parts) reparability…but both seem to be going out the window lately.
Prices are crap though, but then again Android phones on the top end don’t seem much better. 1-2 gen old iPhones are usually a bit more reasonable though tbh.
I do the same on android, as I have always owned a Samsung Note/Ultra. Only this year have I purchased a OnePlus phone, and I’ll never fucking do it again, I hate this phone so much. Going back to Samsung for sure once the S25 Ultra drops.
It’s the apps that prevent themselves being sideloaded. Presumably, their devs will enact similar policy on EU iOS too.
Fuck me, it’s like a butterfly effect, every mother fucker now will follow suit.
F-Droid
Most of the apps I have and use are installed via Droidify. The ones that aren’t are company apps, like banking or airline. I could just used the web sites for those; they’re only conveniences.
My phone isn’t rooted, and I didn’t read the article so I don’t know how this will affect me. If push comes to shove, I’ll simply bite the bullet and get a phone I can install Linux on next time, regardless of how polished for daily driving it is.
Right on. I do use F-Droid and droidify. I also use Obtanium. Linux phone has never sounded better, godammit. Like you, I really don’t give a shit about those banking apps and other shit, web browsers are more than enough in this day and age.
I would most likely be using a phone with Ubuntu Touch on it as my daily driver if it wasn’t for the fact that the cellular carriers force me to have VoLTE support for calls, which is kind of the point for a phone! And guess the one thing Ubuntu Touch doesn’t have support for!
It’s not like dedicated people aren’t going to be able to just patch out the calls to this API from the apps themselves…
This feels like yet another attempt at DRM that is doing more harm than help.
You mean like literally every single attempt at DRM since the Big Bang?
Indeed, I already bypass SafetyNet and Play integrity with some kind of xposed module, I don’t expect this to change.
Whoa, is Xposed still a thing that works? Had to use Magisk instead to get the safety net stuff working on Lineage OS android 11
Xposed is just an API which is provided by the LSPosed Magisk module.
Huh…the more you know. I just assumed Magisk was a spiritual successor, apparently I misunderstood how any of it works.
Can you tell me which modules you use? I am trying to pass SafetyNet on Waydroid but can’t pass even basic integrity.
idk where I got it from, but it’s called “Universal SafetyNet Fix” by kdrag0n
Did you just install the module and passed safetynet or did you have to use custom fingerprint? Also are you on custom or stock rom?
Don’t remember, sorry
Am on e/os/
I’ve used Magisk with the safetynet module + hiding root from apps with like a 95% success rate. Quick search for “magisk safetynet” and look at the xdadevelopers threads
the google store environment is such a pain, at work we have android based Zebra barcode readers… today when I was sideloading our app one of the devices kept uninstalling it because of google play… what a fucking pain in the ass
only when intune fully took it over did it stop…
DONT MAKE ME LIKE INTUNE GOOGLE… JFK
Did you turn off Play Protect?
And yeah, when we set these barcode scanners up, unfortunately it made me appreciate Intune’s Android management tools. I despise Microsoft and Google, but Microsoft won that round of “Who do I hate the least right now?”
I had a workflow that I designed in May and then we had to wait for the fiscal year to turn over before we could get another batch of the new style of devices. Between May and this week, Microsoft and Google must have made some changes because my workflow didn’t work as directed. I hadnt needed to disable Play Protect for that initial workflow. I just waited until the Intune enrollment was clearly done (policies and profiles were completed in Intune) before I did the customization of the device with abs and such, that seemed to make the other devices go according to plan.
John F. Kennedy?
He’d probably try eating the stupid thing!
I get most of my stuff via F-Droid or I could use Obtainium. My tablet is Google-free. This sounds like my phone should be Google-free as well.
Yeah but banking apps are starting to check integritynet, and (in France, at least) they’re pretty much mandatory to do anything useful with your bank account/credit card online… I think Uber does too, I boycott them but others might follow suit…
Currently running lineageos, but I think I’ll just give up and go for a Pixel for my next phone… Sucks to let google win but I like to do useful things with my phone…
I use a hardware TAN generator though I also have a banking app as a fallback on my Lineage OS phone. If I ever buy a Pixel it’s only to install Graphene OS on it.
Sadly most French banks use a custom validation process which requires you to use their app to validate a transaction. And my main bank’s app has warned me that it will “soon” stop working on custom ROMs…
for me for example i just use the web version of navy federal, works pretty fine.
You can’t in some countries. Like if you want to wire something, or setup a payment you have to use the app. It’s mandatory. If you go through the website it ask to open the app to confirm it’s you.
So people that only have a computer and not a smart phone can’t do those things at all?
Yes. They to go to a physical location. Then ask an employee there… Sounds so stupid to me but 🤷♂️
They have to call, mail or physically go to the bank I guess.
i feel like if you switch to the desktop version of the website, it wont pester you.
Unfortunately it will, if I want to add a new transfer recipient or make a payment on a 3D secure website, the app is mandatory, even on desktop.
You can still pass play integrity with a rooted phone/custom ROM. Mine is currently passing with strong while rooted.
What do you use? I rooted my phone precisely for this, but google pay and my bank still see I’m not on the stock ROM : (
I’m currently using APatch, PIFork in script-only mode, and Tricky Store with a leaked keybox.
If you need to spoof for apps you’ll need some other stuff. For APatch there’s a thing called Cherish Peekaboo, for KernelSU you can use Shamiko. These will do their best to hide the fact that you’re rooted from apps. There are some detector apps that can help you fix things that apps might see, but there not entirely needed.
Also since you’re not on the stock ROM, you’ll need to spoof your props so just use the regular Play Integrity fix.
yup they are tightening their grip again
Turing in to Apple
Waging war against ad blockers and third party clients and now this it seems?
Amazing that they can’t seem to see that they are not going to win any customers by trying to out Apple Apple.
Haha, gross: We can’t control the devices we own.
I genuinely don’t even know where to buy an affordable device that is free from this kind of control. Some company always has outsized control (and in some cases arguably surveillance) over anything you can find on the market. It sucks so bad.
Ironically, it might be Pixel + Graphene
How tricky is this to install and use? I have a samsung and use lots of the usual apps. Wondering if it would be feasible for that purpose.
Haven’t tried yet but it’s becoming increasingly appealing to me lol
Was always inching closer, but looks like android has fully outstayed its welcome. The revolving door of executives hit its last person with any integrity on the ass on their way out the door.
They’re still pissed that people won’t put up with their shitty YouTube app and use Revanced instead, eh?
That’s not on Google Play so it doesn’t affect it. I honestly don’t know what the point of this is.
Oh I see, so it only affects modded apks… They probably want to crack down on all those slightly-shady “spotify premium free”-apks.
No, it only affects vanilla apks where the dev implemented the check. For some reason the dev might forbid to run the app to users that side loaded the app instead of getting it from play store
Patched/modded apks are unaffected because the check is patched out
That seems likely. The question comes down to where the line should be drawn. Allow the apps the be installed and then when the data is eventually reported/found by the app owners to have them file law suits against those who are “stealing” from them, or to not allow the cracked application to be loaded in the first place, which is easily disguised as a security protocol because if an app has code in it that is not originally supposed to be there, it is very possibly a form of malware, which then can hurt the users in the long run or short run if it actually acts malicious and starts doing shit like old school viruses did on PC.
People want to say we own the device so we should be able to do whatever we want, but blatantly allowing people to install cracked apps with keyloggers onto their phones unintentionally will get them sued, and ultimately hurt how many people stay using their products.
Imagine every user and password with the site listed was suddenly just accessible by everyone. It would be a hellscape of credit card companies trying to stop accounts because you order 18 pizzas off the dominos app in Georgia, and another 13 sandwiches in the burger king app at the same time in Jersey.
We need to have the freedom to load apps we trust, but if you look at the standard user base, that’s who they have to make the phones for.
Could do something like make the users agree to terms by taking the phone into developer mode that makes them non responsible somehow? Might not hold up in court when they get sued though. “All the photos I took on my phone got shared online”
People want to say we own the device so we should be able to do whatever we want, but blatantly allowing people to install cracked apps with keyloggers onto their phones unintentionally will get them sued, and ultimately hurt how many people stay using their products.
Imagine every user and password with the site listed was suddenly just accessible by everyone. It would be a hellscape of credit card companies trying to stop accounts because you order 18 pizzas off the dominos app in Georgia, and another 13 sandwiches in the burger king app at the same time in Jersey.
We need to have the freedom to load apps we trust, but if you look at the standard user base, that’s who they have to make the phones for.
It has been 16 years since Android came on the scene. Why do you think that these things are going to become such a big issue now in 2024 and beyond?
I think things are fine the way they are, we don’t need to interfere, unless for profits ofcourse.
I have an android DAP (music player) that runs Android 7. It’s a box with a headphone jack (remember those?) and it’s sole purpose is to play offline music from an SD card.
I side-loaded a few music players, because there’s no way I’m putting my Google password in android 7 in 2024.
I’d be upset if I couldn’t side load. These DAPs never have an up to date android.
Let’s hope the music apps I use don’t block sideloading.
Poweramp won’t. Musicolet?
Likely android 7 would not honor (or even be aware) of this new metadata bit. You’ll be fine 🙂
The only reason I’m still sticking with Android is the ability to sideload
I have no reason to use an android if this is the road Google wants to follow and expect my next phone to be an iPhone SE
May as well sideload on iOS~
The only caveat is you Gotta pay yearly $99 for dev account or be limited to 3 apps.
Looks like you’re someone who doesn’t read but it uses DNS filters to use revoked certificates.
I read through your tutorial. One thing it doesn’t mention(probably, ADHD means sometimes I skip a line or two and don’t realise) is if there’s a lower limit for iOS version. Does it assume the person following along has a device <X years old?
Works fine on latest version.
What’s the oldest version it works on?
I am not really sure, iOS 13 I suppose?
Cool, thanks.
I’m in this boat. I really liked using Android and tinkering with it. If I do so now I cannot even use my banking app without doing aftercare each update
