- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.world
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- programmerhumor@lemmy.world
- programmerhumor@lemmy.ml
Meme transcription:
Panel 1: Bilbo Baggins ponders, “After all… why should I care about the difference between int and String?
Panel 2: Bilbo Baggins is revealed to be an API developer. He continues, “JSON is always String, anyways…”
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To whoever does that, I hope that there is a special place in hell where they force you to do type safe API bindings for a JSON API, and every time you use the wrong type for a value, they cave your skull in.
Sincerely, a frustrated Rust dev
“Hey, it appears to be int most of the time except that one time it has letters.”
throws keyboard in trash
Rust has perfectly fine tools to deal with such issues, namely enums. Of course that cascades through every bit of related code and is a major pain.
Sadly it doesn’t fix the bad documentation problem. I often don’t care that a field is special and either give a string or number. This is fine.
What is not fine, and which should sentence you to eternal punishment, is to not clearly document it.
Don’t you love when you publish a crate, have tested it on thousands of returned objects, only for the first issue be “field is sometimes null/other type?”. You really start questioning everything about the API, and sometimes you’d rather parse it as
serde::Valueand call it a day.API is sitting there cackling like a mad scientist in a lightning storm.
True, and also true.
This man has interacted with SAP.
Relax, it’s just JSON. If you wanted to not be stringly-typed, you’d have not used JSON.
(though to be fair, I hate it when people do bullshit types, but they got a point in that you ought to not use JSON in the first place if it matters)
As if I had a choice. Most of the time I’m only on the receiving end, not the sending end. I can’t just magically use something else when that something else doesn’t exist.
Heck, even when I’m on the sending end, I’d use JSON. Just not bullshit ones. It’s not complicated to only have static types, or having discriminant fields
You HAVE to. I am a Rust dev too and I’m telling you, if you don’t convert numbers to strings in json, browsers are going to overflow them and you will have incomprehensible bugs. Json can only be trusted when serde is used on both ends
This is understandable in that use case. But it’s not everyday that you deal with values in the range of overflows. So I mostly assumed this is fine in that use case.
“1” + “1”
“11”
strings are in base two, got it
Wouldn’t the answer be “10” in that case?
yes, if I could do maths
1+1=11 means base 1
How so?
1 11 111 1111 11111 111111
That’s base 1. By convention, because it doesn’t really fit the pattern of positional number systems as far as I can tell, but it gets called that.
Oh, I get it, was reading as base 2 and confused by that. Essentially Roman numerals without all the fancy shortcuts.
Based
Who calls it that? Who even uses that enough to have given it a name? Seems completely pointless…
That’s unary.
Strings are in base whatever roman numerals are.
These JSON memes got me feeing like some junior dev out there is upset because they haven’t read and understood the docs.
You guys have docs?
You guys can read?
Comments? Comments? Who needs comments?
I’ll have you know all of my code is stringly typed.
All my binary code is stringy too.
CBOR for life, down with JSON.
If you’re moving away from text formats, might as well use a proper serialisation tool like protobuf…
Hell, no. If I wanted to save bytes, I’d use a binary format, or just fucking zip the JSON. Looking at a request-response pair and quickly understanding the transferred data is invaluable.
Yaml?
For the love of all things pure, holy, and just, please do not use YAML in your APIs…
Fine, and if you don’t use json in your API because of the deficiency highlighted in the meme, what format do you use in your API?
I use JSON. I have used Avro for things in Kafka but I’m not sure the benefits outweigh the negatives. Avro is much more complicated than people think and most folks don’t really have a strong desire to learn how it should be used and do stuff incorrectly. Everybody knows JSON and it works with everything though. (Example: so many people just hear that Avro schemas can be backwards compatible but have zero idea that you still need the schema that wrote the message even if you want to read it into a newer one.)
Interestingly, I take the meme as saying a dev is using the wrong types in their serialization format (using strings to store integers) which was my biggest problem with Avro. Mostly from people not using logical types or preferring to use ISO 8601 datetime strings instead of the built-in
timestamp-millistype.
Explicit types are just laziness, you should be catching exceptions anyways.
I do. I return an error.
json doesn’t have ints, it has Numbers, which are ieee754 floats. if you want to precisely store the full range of a 64 bit int (anything larger than 2^53 -1) then string is indeed the correct type
json doesn’t have ints, it has Numbers, which are ieee754 floats.
No. numbers in JSON have arbitrary precision. The standard only specifies that implementations may impose restrictions on the allowed values.
This specification allows implementations to set limits on the range and precision of numbers accepted. Since software that implements IEEE 754 binary64 (double precision) numbers [IEEE754] is generally available and widely used, good interoperability can be achieved by implementations that expect no more precision or range than these provide, in the sense that implementations will approximate JSON numbers within the expected precision. A JSON number such as 1E400 or 3.141592653589793238462643383279 may indicate potential interoperability problems, since it suggests that the software that created it expects receiving software to have greater capabilities for numeric magnitude and precision than is widely available.
Let me show you what Ethan has to say about this: https://feddit.org/post/319546/174361
It’s the API’s job to validate it either way. As it does that job, it may as well parse the string as an integer.
deleted by creator
Or even funnier: It gets parsed in octal, which does yield a valid zip code. Good luck finding that.
Well shit, my zip code starts with a 9.
I’m not sure if you’re getting it, so I’ll explain just in case.
In computer science a few conventions have emerged on how numbers should be interpreted, depending on how they start:
- decimal (the usual system with digits from 0 to 9): no prefix
- binary (digits 0 and 1): prefix
0b, so0b1001110 - octal (digits 0 through 7): prefix
0, so0116 - hexadecimal (digits 0 through 9 and then A through E): prefix
0x, so0x8E
If your zip code starts with 9, it won’t be interpreted as octal. You’re fine.
Well, you’re right. I wasn’t getting it, but I’ve also never seen any piece of software that would treat a single leading zero as octal. That’s just a recipe for disaster, and it should use
0o116to be unambiguous(I am a software engineer, but was assuming you meant it was hardcoded to parse as octal, not some weird auto-detect)
I’ve also never seen any piece of software that would treat a single leading zero as octal
I thought JavaScript did that, but it turns out it doesn’t. I thought Java did that, but it turns out it doesn’t. Python did it until version 2.7: https://docs.python.org/2.7/library/functions.html#int. C still does it: https://en.cppreference.com/w/c/string/byte/strtol
Interesting that
strtolin C does that. I’ve always explicitly passed in base 10 or 16, but I didn’t know it would auto-detect if you passed 0. TIL.
It’s been a long time, but I’m pretty sure C treats a leading zero as octal in source code. PHP and Node definitely do. Yes, it’s a bad convention. It’s much worse if that’s being done by a runtime function that parses user input, though. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen that somewhere in the past, but no idea where. Doesn’t seem likely to be common.
PHP and Node definitely do.
Node doesn’t.
> parseInt('077') 77- If the input string, with leading whitespace and possible +/- signs removed, begins with 0x or 0X (a zero, followed by lowercase or uppercase X), radix is assumed to be 16 and the rest of the string is parsed as a hexadecimal number.
- If the input string begins with any other value, the radix is 10 (decimal).
https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/parseInt
Who tf decided that a 0 prefix means base 8 in the first place? If a time machine was invented somehow I’m going to cap that man, after the guy that created JavaScript.
Should be like
0o777to mimic hex0xFF
Oof.
I guess this is one of the reasons that some linters now scream if you don’t provide base when parsing numbers. But then again good luck finding it if it happens internally. Still, I feel like a ZIP should be treated as a string even if it looks like a number.
Yep. Much like we don’t treat phone numbers like a number. The rule of thumb is that if you don’t do any arithmetic with it, it is not a “number” but numeric.
Well, we don’t, but every electonic tables software out in the wild on the other hand…
/j
Yes, I know that you can force it to become text by prepending
'to the phone, choose an appropriate format for the cells, etc, etcThe point is that this often requires meddling after the phone gets displayed as something like
3e10
I refuse to validate data that comes from the backend I specifically develop against.
A string that represents types…
If a item can have different type, those label fields are actually quite useful. So I don’t see the problem
This is String - you’ve seen it before haven’t you, Gollum?
The comment section proves that xml is far superior to json
XML is all round better than Json.
Protocol Buffers are hated, but they are needed.
Do you actually use them?
I’m a student so, yes and no?
I do, but I also don’t think that’s a silver bullet, unfortunately. There’s convenience in code generation and compatibility, at least
