Just what the cash-strapped people of the world want - more monthly fees.
And for something that is already data-mining you. Adding a fee just adds insult to injury.
Yeah, I think that’s the bigger issue here. These devices pay their way by collecting data to sell off. What this “overhual” is indicating is that they haven’t quite figured out how to make these devices not only pay for themselves, but also, generate a net background profit for the company.
The only thing I’m reading from this story is that Amazon is just aiming for more dollar signs from Alexia. I’m going tell you in the day and age of Siri and Whatever Google’s thing is, this is going to backfire massively on Amazon. This will likely collapse whatever paltry Alexia that’s out there. And I have a good feeling they’ll look at this collapse as “well the technology just isn’t a good money maker.” No you idiots, it’s not a mass profit driver. I get how something not drawing double digit percentage gains is a mystery to you all, but just because you cannot buy your fifteenth yacht from it, doesn’t mean that the technology is a failure.
But it’s whatever, Amazon’s ship to wreck.
Looks like companies are shifting to charging users whose data they are stealing.
The saying ‘if you aren’t the customer, you are the product’ is outdated. Now you are the customer and the product!
Windows has done this for ages now. Buying a laptop, you pay well over $100 for the windows license alone, yet it is the most egregious operating system when it comes to datamining the user.
And then they started putting ads for subscriptions in the os.
With Sonos shitting the bed with its app update and now the prospect of Alexa being destroyed by fees and AI, my smart home infrastructure is falling apart. So disappointing.
Never use anything that depends on the Internet for your smart home. There are entirely offline text to speech and voice recognition plugins/libraries for home assistant.
Yeah I learned this lesson by starting with Smartthings and grew to hate the lack of reliability pretty quickly. Home Assistant and a raspberry pi has been significantly better.
What are you using for microphones?
I can’t ask a question? I am in the Alexa infrastructure and would like to change and I don’t know what’s good to use instead. People are really shitty.
Don’t take it personally. It’s just a few trolls who think they’re superior. Your question is valid and I’m also interested in alternatives too. I have home assistant, but it’s another thing entirely to more easily swap out Alexa for some equally well supported mic/speaker hardware. I’m sure this will change with people being motivated not to give Amazon subscription fees and ‘to finally’ cut the online requirements. I would love local voice control so that I’m not reliant on phone apps if the internet goes out.
Is there good app support for Home Assistant? Like a one stop shop or is it spread over the apps of the various pieces of equipment?
Depends somewhat. Home Assistant has its own app that works pretty well. Generally other apps don’t integrate with Home Assistant, but rather the other way around with Home Assistant having a plug-in to allow it to control and interact with other hardware/software. Everything is controlled/managed by Home Assistant so when you need to issue commands or setup triggers its your one stop shop.
I know there are voice control plugins for Home Assistant that are reviewed reasonably well, but I don’t personally use them so I can’t say what models of mic work well or not. My usage is pretty minimal with simple timers and/or things like presence and temperature sensors being sufficient to meet all my automation needs supplemented by the occasional custom UI button on my Home Assistant dashboard accessible through the app or web interface. Personally the rule I try to follow for all my IoT devices is to avoid Wifi if at all possible in favor of standard mesh network tech like Zigbee or Z-Wave that way it’s literally impossible for my “smart devices” to call out to the Internet without me manually installing some kind of bridging software in Home Assistant.
I too would like to change from Alexa echos to something else. But I don’t know what devices are readily with omni-directional mics and easy to migrate to. I use Alexa for simplicity but would gladly fill the gap with Home assistant and recommendations on good replacement mic/speakers.
Too bad we can’t root our Alexa equipment and use them.
It’s coming. Slowly. But it’s coming.
I haven’t tried it myself (tho I’m planning to do so soon), but check Onju voice, it tries to do something kinda similar.
I hope someone tries do pull that on an echo dot. Good hardware, shit software.
Edit: Update with related links.
The Onju Github i forgot before, tho it’s linked in pcbway. It has instructions to set it up along with home assistant and even a matrix bridge.
Onju voice satellite is a different project using the same custom pcb. This one looks better integrated with home assistant and has an actual wakeword system (unlike og onju, which doesn’t have one by design). This one feels more like “better private alexa for home assistant”.
Home Assistant is a great alternative. It gets better and better as all Google and Alexa get worse and worse.
What are you using for microphones?
Why the downvotes? this is a legitimate good question as there are many available and people may have important experiences to share. Looking to set up my own someday (hopefully soon) and am interested in what has worked well for people as well.
Probably because they’ve asked it four times in this post
If only any of those questions had a legit answer D: I’m curious too.
Bluetooth and USB speakerphones seem to work fairly well as both mic and speaker. I think thr sennheiser sp20 has been in a couple tinkerers posts I’ve seen.
This is why I went with HomeKit devices. I do not understand why people trust Amazon or Google, their business models are not pro-consumer.
If Apple pulled at one of the maneuvers these two have, there would be a flood of articles condemning them. No one expects Amazon or Google to respect you.
It’s hilarious you think Apple is in any way pro-consumer. Apple is all about their walled gardens, but they’re a trap. Their entire business model is designed to use various underhanded means to entice you into their ecosystem and at every step make it increasingly difficult to escape it all so that they can keep extracting money from you. Google and Microsoft aren’t much better but they are better ironically because they’re not as good at disguising their bait and traps as Apple is.
Yes. I understand the people who don’t use Apple products think they are smarter than those who do. Your list of common tropes is tiresome.
The reality is quite far from what you imagine. People who actually understand technology, people who are in the tech industry use Apple products at a higher rather than those who are not.
Instead of Apples well thought out walled garden, fools happily pay extra to play in Google/Amazon/Microsofts chain linked dirt pit. It’s hilarious what lengths people go to pretend that is a better experience; that rusty chain link with barbed wire is superior to walls
You will learn eventually
I mean yeah. The only reason anyone is surprised when apple pulls shit like this is because they’re aggressively anti-consumer in their pricing and hardware design (parts pairing, poor reparability, etc.). People assume because they’re so flagrantly anti-consumer with their hardware, they can afford to not be so anti-consumer with their software. This is wrong, of course. They’re a publicly traded company, they’ll milk their users for every cent they can.
It’s why I’ve avoided anything smarthome tied to any particular vendor.
My endpoint devices are almost entirely Zwave or Zigbee/Matter based. I started out with a SmartThings hub but migrated it all to Home Assistant last year. HA has honestly had easier integrations than SmartThings did and supports almost anything under the sun.
I don’t have to worry about suddenly losing control of my devices and the only ‘subscription’ associated with it all is $15/year for a domain name to make setting up remote access easier. This approach requires a little more research, but it opens up the ability to mix and match devices however you’d like. Absolutely zero regrets.
Are you using microphones or is it entirely app based? And if so what microphones are you using?
I’m not currently, but I do know that HA has made specific pushes to improve voice-control over the past year. Should be numerous blog posts on their website about it.
Everyone learns for a first time, often through a negative experience. You should take the opportunity to promote FOSS alternatives rather than semi-gloat about your foresight.
Alexa has had AI backing its services for the better part of a decade.
Source: I worked on some of it.
Not fees though.
Oh no! Where else will I find a Bluetooth speaker that also tells me the temperature outside?
Without datamining and that works out of the box? Please let us know when you find out.
And this is exact the reason I’m building a Home Assistant instance with local voice processing. Right now it takes a few seconds to process a request and take action on my crappy 1.8ghz laptop with only 4gb of RAM, but it basically does everything I use Alexa for. This announcement is just encouraging me to build a better server with an esp32 satellite.
What are you using for microphones?
I’m still working on question one too. It seems like a microphone array is the best option but a lot of them seem over built for the task.
I guess it would be too easy to just have Plug and Play option. 🤷 I am technically inclined but I don’t want to spend a ton of time recreating the wheel.
Agreed. I can’t seem to find something that I can migrate to which doesn’t require a huge reprogramming effort. I would love local control but don’t want to spend my Saturdays and freetime struggling to figure out why it’s suddenly not working. Alexa is shitty and doesn’t have tons of flexible control, but it’s ‘uptime’ is very good, and does well for playing audio for the fam. self note… Get away from Spotify while I’m at it 😭
I don’t mind building the stuff when I’m in the mood. When Logitech decided to shut down the Harmony remote line I wrote my own version of a Hub into Home Assistant It was fun and it works better.
But now I’m tech support for it and if it breaks down I have to work on it whether I want to or not. It’s put me off wanting to build more stuff from scratch.
This is an instance where I think the folks at nobu casa (paid branch of home assistant development) could dedicate some resources to hardware. Instead of the prebuilt SBC stuff like HA-blue, or yellow or whatever. Create an esp device that just has a reliable microphone, and crank them out. I’d buy one for every room in my house!
I’ve got an esp army in my greenhouse that runs wLED, and one of them has a mic for doing the sound reactive display stuff, but it’s running wLED, not ESPHome… I wonder how easy it would be to just slap a digital mic on some of the other esp things I’ve got floating around?
Honestly, nothing yet. I’ve only been playing with it for a few weeks. I just use the web interface on my phone to test the voice control. I’ve been looking at the esp32 devices that people have been building, but a lot of them admit that they can’t come anywhere close to the reliability of the microphone array used in the Alexa.
I’m in the process of this now too. The only need that I can’t figure out within home-assistant assist, is unit conversions. Converting measurements when cooking is one of the main things we use the Alexa for these days.
Can it play music from YouTube or Spotify or something? Because that’s literally all my kids want an Alexa device for.
Watch the existing one become even more insufferable to push you into paying for the upgrade.
Will the existing ones still operate without the subscription?
I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that
What do you think ^^
“Sorry, I don’t understand your question. Could you try again?”
I wonder how many fools are out there that will pay for this.
Too many, way, way too many,
Not having Amazon is great and cheaper than having it.
Well, once again a tech company gives a service I don’t care for an overhaul I don’t want and tries to charge a fee I won’t pay.
I suspect when this doesn’t do the numbers they want they’ll try adding a user fee to oxygen as a retaliation.
You should watch Spaceballs. They have Perri-Air.
And you could also look at the real world. We have boost air.
I am quite literally touching grass now, thank you very much.
That’ll be $15
I’m sorry Bill. I can’t open the pod bay door until you subscribe to Omni-zon
But I have to pee really bad HAL!!!
If I have to pay to have my dots and ring, i will throw the shit out in the street
Edit: Yeah, I’m done with them anyways, they’re trash.
Looks like I’ll be selling the few Amazon Alexa-centric devices I’ve got.
I will pay exactly zero dollars, thanks!
Yeah nah, not gonna pay for that
I didn’t think people really expected to believe that their smart stuff was really theirs. Did they? Imagine renting your bulbs to Amazon.
I hope for one good thing to come out from all this AI madness : people might get used to pay for a service on the internet again. If this miraculously happens it could lead to people more cautiously choose services over quality instead of the one with darkest patterns.
One can still dream…
I wouldn’t get your hopes up too high.
You’re thinking like you are the customer and the customer is always right, so if you pay for a service it should provide you what you want, right?
This is not that scenario.
You are not the customer. You are a product that is being sold to advertisers. It does not matter if you also pay them money, you are still the product. If you pay them money on top of being sold then you are just an especially profitable product.
Paying them money will not cause you to cease being a product, no matter how much money you are willing to pay.
If you use a different company’s product that starts off with you being the customer, eventually, they will learn that they can make more money by selling you to other people, and they will.
Yup. Any entity ties to Wall St. must make that $ line go higher every quarter. The how doesn’t matter.
I was more thinking that if people were paying they might give more thoughts to what they are diving into. But yeah I agree that’s just a wet dream.
