- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
- cross-posted to:
- worldnewsnonus@lemy.lol
Europeans — especially Germans — are increasingly keen on curbing immigration and are less focused on climate change, according to a study by a Danish-based think tank.
Europe has seen a sharp rise in the share of people who say that reducing immigration should be a top government priority, according to a study published Wednesday. Germany is topping the list.
At the same time, there was less desire to prioritize fighting climate change in the same countries, according to the survey commissioned by the Denmark-based Alliance of Democracies Foundation think tank.
Nearly half of German respondents put focus on migration
Since 2022, an increasing number of Europeans say their government should prioritize “reducing immigration,” rising from just under 20% to a quarter.
Meanwhile, concern about climate change was on the slide across the continent.
“In 2024, for the first time, reducing immigration is a greater priority for most Europeans than fighting climate change,” the report said.
“Nowhere is this reversal more striking than in Germany, which now leads the world with the highest share of people who want their government to focus on reducing immigration — topping all other priorities — and now nearly twice as high as fighting climate change,” the report read.
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Bad news, Germany, because immigration is about to increase because of climate change.
Right-wing media has really done a number on critical thinking.
From what I see, lots of people in Germany understand that some countries will be hit hard by climate change. The key issue is that they don’t care, and instead of stopping climate change their solution to this is to shut the borders and let no one in. These people are so resistant to changing their way of life, they’d happily trade people’s lives for it.
Worst thing is they are fucking it up for their kids and/or grandkids who will be forced to change their way of life because of the hellscape they’ll inherit
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Changing our way of life is required to limit climate change and the effects it will have globally and locally, not to accommodate immigrants. Your rant is misplaced, and I don’t agree with it either.
Ah, yes I completely misunderstood it, sorry
People in western nations are largely responsible for climate change. Someone in Syria won’t be flying around the world and buying new clothes all the time. But they will be the ones hit the hardest by climate change, so they will likely either die or become refugees trying to come to the west.
Also, a lot of our western wealth is based on exploitation of those nations (through colonialism and later capitalism or wars). So if westerners don’t want people from poor countries to come to the west they should help those nations to recover from that exploitation.
Furthermore we need to do these things, because a bigger influx of desperate migrants will steer western politics even further to the right. That’s never a great thing and will lead to more inequality and possibly the collapse of our democratic systems.
Finally to your point about migrants being more criminal. That is largely a result of worse economic circumstances and outlooks. Improve their chances and watch the crime rate drop.
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That’s because when right-wing politicians get into power, the first thing out the window is education and critical thinking. You can’t have a population that thinks too much because they’re harder to control.
“So long as they (the Proles) continued to work and breed, their other activities were without importance. Left to themselves, like cattle turned loose upon the plains of Argentina, they had reverted to a style of life that appeared to be natural to them, a sort of ancestral pattern…Heavy physical work, the care of home and children, petty quarrels with neighbors, films, football, beer and above all, gambling filled up the horizon of their minds. To keep them in control was not difficult.” George Orwell, 1984
Right-wing media has really done a number on critical thinking.
Correlation is not cause and effect.
It’s more likely that the lack of critical thinking was there in the first place and served as the soil for right wing media to sink its roots into.
Fear is a fantastic motivator and reactionary politicians prove that time and time again
uncontrolled migration is largely caused by the effects of climate change on poor southern countries.
The Germans have a guaranteed welfare system for migrants. That is one major reason they are the preferred destination, and able-bodied people who go to another country just for welfare, are not good people, which coincidentally linked to increased crime. It seems to me, white folks try hard to convince people they are not racist. Then they live safely in their gated communities.
I’m pretty sure the increased crime among refugees here in germany is largely due to the laughably long wait times (months, if you’re lucky, on average 3 years) until their case gets reviewed, and them only gettting a tiny allowance (max. 182€ per month) and not being allowed to work during that time. Of course they end up committing crimes more often in such a situation, it’s not because they are bad people.
Gewalttaten nehmen drastisch zu: Zahl tatverdächtiger Ausländer springt nach oben - n-tv.de - https://www.n-tv.de/politik/Zahl-tatverdaechtiger-Auslaender-springt-nach-oben-article24858209.html
Das kann viele Gründe haben. Rassismus in der Polizei ist nur einer davon. Heißt immer noch nicht, dass Flüchtlinge generell schlechte Menschen wären.
edit: hast du deinen Artikel eigentlich selbst gelesen?
Die überproportional vielen Ausländer unter den einer Straftat Beschuldigten erklären Soziologen und Kriminologen mit verschiedenen Ursachen. So sind die meisten Zuwanderer junge Männer, die in jeder Kriminalitätsstatistik auffällig stark vertreten sind. Hinzu kommen die bei Ausländern in Deutschland besonders oft schwierige soziale Lage und womöglich eigene Gewalterfahrungen im Herkunftsland oder während der Flucht nach Deutschland, die die Hemmschwelle zur Gewaltanwendung sinken ließen.
Zudem passierten viele Straftaten in Ausländerunterkünften und in deren Umfeld, wo einerseits die Unterbringungssituation extrem angespannt ist, andererseits Polizei und Wachschutz besonders präsent sind. Ferner haben Soziologen aufgezeigt, dass die Anzeigebereitschaft deutlich höher ist gegenüber Menschen, die als nicht zugehörig zur eigenen Gruppe wahrgenommen werden.
Das Bundeskriminalamt hält aber auch fest: Der Anteil der einer Straftat Beschuldigten unter allen Ausländern ist im vergangenen Jahr sogar gesunken Weil aber zugleich deutlich mehr Ausländer in Deutschland leben, ist die absolute Zahl ausländischer Straftäter dennoch gestiegen. Ein Zusammenhang zwischen Zuwanderung und Anzahl registrierter Straftaten ist damit offensichtlich.
Unfassbar guter Journalismus daraus so eine Überschrift herbeizudichten…
I came to say this exactly. Also I just realized that I would love to move to a beautiful beach area in one of the Pacific facing tropical countries…places where poor people migrate away from… Does that make sense? That having money protects you from climate change? If basically a middle class person from the US can be rich in these poor countries, does that mean that they are less affected? You can afford fruits and vegetables if you have money? What if more rich assholes move into the area? Do they also get to still afford fresh bananas, and strawberries? Something tells me that they would quickly saturate the area like here in Seattle where every event seems to be packed to the brim with people. There’s just a packet room no matter what you choose to do. Hiking? Shoulder to shoulder. Swimming? Sardines in a can. Etc.
Ameribro here. I’ve hosted a German exchange kid. She was really, really worried about immigration and “preserving German culture”. I pointed out to her that:
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Culture is not a fixed thing, it’s always drifting a little bit, with or without immigrants. That’s why old people always complain about how different everything is.
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Germany is actually younger than the US as a state by about a century, and contemporary Germany has really only existed since either the end of WW2 or the fall of the Soviet Union, depending on your view. (IMO, the collapse of East Germany is non-trivial. Her mom was an East German and described to us how they had an entirely separate culture with different groceries and everything and all that just vaporized into nothing when the wall fell, replaced with West German culture almost overnight). So, what does it really even mean to be defending German culture?
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There’s always hardship when a new group of people arrive, but over time you usually end up with something that’s better than what you had before if you can learn to embrace it. US culture has, in spite of our issues with racism, tangibly benefitted from immigration over the centuries.
She wasn’t receptive to it. A lot of Europeans who hold anti-immigratiom views insist that it’s different for Europe when they have immigrants than it is for the US. I’ve yet to have one persuasively explain why that’s true and not just whiny exceptionalism.
Unfortunately we do have such narrow minded people in Germany. Even sadder they apply this mindset onto their kids
I mostly agree with your conclusion, but this is a very american (I.e. ignorant) response to her concern and i am not surprised she wasnt receptive. I think you underestimate the difference between a country like yours (which has always been a ‘salad bowl’ of cultures united by a commitment to liberalism) and mine (Germany, which is essentially a big tribe of tribes). This difference is even more stark if you look at a place like Denmark.
Here are a few of your points that gave me this impression:
Germany is actually younger than the US
Her concern is (to me) obviously independent of the state we happen to live under. Germaneness is not tied to a political entity. East Germans were German, Volga Germans are German and the German speaking people under the hre were German. (“German” Americans are not German btw.) This also makes your comment about
Her mom was an East German and described to us how they had an entirely separate culture
baffling (to me).
US culture has, … tangibly benefitted from immigration over the centuries.
The us is in many ways a much worse country than Germany (or almost any EU country). I don’t see why we should strive to emulate that model.
I think the question that really needs to be answered is how you plan on enforcing cultural normality. If, as you say, Germans have had a strong identify regardless of historical causes and conditions, it sounds like they’ve figured their culture out throughout the decades and centuries without someone pointing a gun at them over it. So then why should the force and violence of the government be necessary now, and to what extent? Are we just talking arresting brown people, or should we start arresting anyone who speaks something besides German in public, since they’re eroding the culture too?
I also wanted to respond to your remark about emulating the US. You don’t give rich old white men enough credit, they’ve managed to turn the country into a shambling wreck all while keeping everyone else locked out of governance. Maybe if we’d had those other voices, we wouldn’t have Donald Trump soliciting a billion dollar bribe to roll back all of our environmental protections.
Are we just talking arresting brown people, or should we start arresting anyone who speaks something besides German in public, since they’re eroding the culture too?
The fuck are you on about.
If you want to get a handle on this I suggest you start with concepts such as the assimilation capacity of a population as well as the possible speed of different kinds of natural cultural drift. If you want to avoid to avoid fuelling xenophobic ressentiment, what you need to make sure is that cultural drift caused by new arrivals is lower than what people accept, in that case people become more tolerant of that kind of shift, though of course that has a limit (and that’s fine). OTOH if you exceed it, people become less tolerant of shifts. In other words: Culture is a non-newtonian fluid. You create resistance by pushing too hard, if you go in gently there very well might be no resistance at all.
The erm force applied to that non-newtonian fluid is more or less number of arrivals multiplied by germane cultural difference multiplied by economical impact. When Germans flock to Sweden the Swedes worry about those “closed up and private” people, they’re somewhat taken aback by directness but secretly also somewhat glad that there’s someone actually complaining in public, not just in private. In the numbers that we’re talking about the Swedes aren’t worried in cultural terms, though there’s some gripes among some around housing prices in rural areas (not among the Swedes selling the houses, of course). Berliners are way more worried about Swabian arrivals.
And, really, let’s take Sweden as an example because they’ve been so… Swedish about the whole thing. Over decades their immigration worked just fine, they had a certain number and that number didn’t exceed the assimilation capacity, and then Swedes said “we are the best so of course we’ll take in more” and more came and assimilation failed – and the Swedes, being Swedes, never complained in public. It’s a high-trust environment, of course you trust others, even if government policy led to, one way or the other, segregation: Arrivals live in one place, native Swedes in another. Which then makes it even harder for the new arrivals to even acculturate much less assimilate, leading to more segregation, leading to more difficulties. At some point a dam broke and Swedes stopped complaining in private and complained in public – the backlash. Which led to people who were born in Sweden from perfectly assimilated parents suddenly found themselves on the outside of their own culture.
If, instead their politicians had started early saying “we need to actively work against that segregation, we need to change our public housing policy to make sure that neighbourhoods are mixed, and if that doesn’t suffice we need to limit the number of new arrivals” things would’ve went very differently – such a policy would have increased assimilation capacity. But that would’ve implied things such as Sweden not being perfect which is unthinkable to a Swede… at least to say aloud. Fucking swots.
What I’m on about is that there are plenty of people who would be quite happy to make it the police’s business to enforce cultural norms. Governments probably should do more to ensure plentiful housing, but assimilation is something that just happens over time. The US has had its own assimilation woes many, many, many times, it’s never been the happy melting pot we tell the world we are. We’ve had cultural enclaves and backlashes and all of that, but what always happens is that the assimilation takes hold within a generation or two, regardless of how the older generations might feel about it. It’s something people are quite capable of figuring out for themselves, without getting the cops involved.
Imo, people should be free to live and work where they please. Borders are the tools of tyrants, imo, but I don’t think we’re ready for that conversation.
What I’m on about is that there are plenty of people who would be quite happy to make it the police’s business to enforce cultural norms.
And it’s going to stay that way, or become worse, if migration is mismanaged.
Borders are the tools of tyrants, imo, but I don’t think we’re ready for that conversation.
There is no political border surrounding Franconia. Well maybe district borders, but those are fuzzy and approximate when it comes to culture. Noone is stopping anyone from crossing in or out. But if suddenly Bavarians, culturally Bavarian that is not just as in the state, started to mass-migrate into Franconia boy would you see backlash: Franconians are perfectly entitled to want to stay Franconian instead of becoming Bavarian. Different language, different traditions, different mentality, different majority religion, different Idendidäd.
Yes, I’m familiar with what you’re talking about about. We’ve had similar backlashes even within the US before. The thing is, it’s something people can, have, and do figure out without arresting anyone. People are smart and generally want to do what they believe to be the right thing and have a peaceful life, that’s broadly true across our species.
You’re the only one around here talking about arresting people. Maybe you share – culturally – more in common with some people that you dislike than you realise or you wouldn’t be preoccupied like that.
The us is in many ways a much worse country than Germany (or almost any EU country). I don’t see why we should strive to emulate that model.
Besides the point. Immigration does not necessarily lead to “bad” legislation.
Culture is identity. Isn’t that obvious from looking at different people all over the world? It is true, there is a clash of cultures because everyone is proud of their identity. Nationalism is extremely powerful because it is human instinct to look upon kinship. Humans are social animals.
Sure, but you don’t need the force and violence of the state to enforce identity. It’s something people are quite capable of figuring out on their own without being at gunpoint.
And Germany’s population, and with that the economy, would start shrinking without immigration. That’s what a fertility rate of 1.7 gets you. Things would go downhill fast enough.
People would just start blaming the politicians for the rampant inflation and reduction in services that a scarcity of workers creates, and then vote in some fascist to “fix” it, first and foremost without allowing immigration. He will overthrow the media and judiciary and “fix” it by starting wars with the neighbors or doing ethnic cleansing at home.
All countries are going to go sub-replacement within a couple of decades. Aside from our constant inability to reform the pension system Germany is actually in quite a good spot: Those 1.7 are very stable, there’s no grand fluctuations, and no real reason to suspect it will suddenly crash. It’s a rate which, yes, leads to a degree of gerontocracy but it’s not catastrophic for the economy or pension system in the sense that improvements in productivity can make up for it.
I suspect it will rise again and then hover around 2 but for that to happen spooks like climate change related hesitancy will have to go (will happen with time, the earth can easily sustain the overall projected population levels) and the sources of immigration will have to dry up to a noticeable degree, which will also happen with time.
There’s always hardship when a new group of people arrive, but over time you usually end up with something that’s better than what you had before if you can learn to embrace it. US culture has, in spite of our issues with racism, tangibly benefitted from immigration over the centuries.
Now tell that to the native americans and see how well they take it.
“if we don’t do to other people what we did to native Americans, they’ll do to us what we did to the native Americans” is a reasonably common white supremacist talking point in the US, often presented adjacent to the great replacement.
Preserving German culture and worrying about immigration - you had an AfD or nazi kid in your home.
an AfD or nazi kid in your home
Mostly the same thing.
Agreed.
I don’t agree with your analysis. German culture clearly predates WW2. You’re conflating political entities with cultures and that’s not how any of this works
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Propaganda works and people are stupid.
It does. We really need positive propaganda. Dupe everyone into thinking that climate change is real, we have to do something now, doubling down on renewable and sustainable resources is required, etc. I’d love to brainwash everyone into believing that public education needs more funds and resources. Or that rivers and lakes shouldn’t be polluted.
I’ve got news for you guys, one of these things is going to radically affect the other.
Maybe the key to getting old people to care about climate change is to frame the mass displacement and migration that will occur as a direct result of it.
That is pretty genius for sure but I think the issue is that these people think that once shit hits the fan they will be able to stop the desperate masses at their border by legalisation or whatever.
Whatever is machine guns.
Some explain these people that climate chance is going to cause a lot more migration if not addressed
Everyone tries but they are not listening because they claim that everything from the science are lies (climate change, vaccines etc). They will never change and the level of education and ability to think logically and objective is close to zero. The right wing parties boost this because they know they are their path to power.
Yet, in typical European fashion they would much much much rather interpret “reduce immigration” to mean “be mean to poor people here” than to mean “help stabilize developing nations and allow their economies to grow without squeezing them out using our country’s dominant economic position (so people don’t become economic migrants) and without support for bombing them every other decade (so people don’t become war refugees)”, which of course includes “address climate change (so people don’t become climate refugees)”.
No upstream thinking, just fascism fascism fascism.
The article does not address any of that, it’s your interpretation. I would like lower immigration into my country and that absolutely requires raising other countries up economically and preventing war and climate catastrophe. This was just a survey on what issues people are concerned about. It did not ask for solutions.
Yea right, I’m sure AfD voters are all for raising up other countries.
Buddy, I’m Greek. I know first hand what German right wingers think of “irresponsible southerners”. So far up their righteous asses that expending economic resources for a European country that basically buys everything Germany produces was too hard for them to swallow. Don’t tell me they would not turn uber-protectionist the moment helping some brown people place comes up.
Funny that you’re Greek. I recently had a conversation with the middle aged son of Greek migrants where he complained that the suburb he grew up in changed because of the later wave of migrants from elsewhere. No self awareness at all.
He integrated successfully.
Climate change is an existential threat. They can see those swarthy heathens filling their cities and stealing their jobs or whatever the fuck they think whenever they see someone of a darker skin tone than themselves.
Guess what’s going to exacerbate the migration issue, Germany?
Wind turbans.
I should get my emigration plans ready, I hate the German boomer racism and how it infected the younger population. Fuck racists, no matter how they label themselves.
I’m in the same boat, almost left in 2022 but didn’t go through with it. Time will tell if I made the right call.
At least I am all good with living in other countries - done 4 1/2 years in one and 1 year in another and only came back for work contractual reasons. That changed - and it’s good to know the option is not just hypothetical :)
Where are Germans afraid of migrating to?
germans being racist and xenophobic? shocker.
I’m in the weird position of wanting both - closed borders and a reversal of climate change, so the next election is going to be interesting for me. They seem to be mutually exclusive in party programs
It’s not interesting, it’s simple: Don’t vote for fascists, no matter what. This means AfD and, if by that point, Conservatives are willing to form a coalition with them (I hope not, but Merz scares me), those are impossible to vote for by any decent human being as well.
The AfD > 20% 😷
We’ll seem this is only predictions. They are not an election and much can happen.
The only sustainable solution to migration is reducing the reasons to migrate. Tackling climate change would reduce perhaps the biggest reason for migration we’re ever gonna see. So if you have to choose between curbing climate change without reducing migration, and curbing migration without reducing climate change, you should probably go with the former. The latter is only going to reduce migration temporarily and accelerate it long term. If they can even reduce migration in the near term.
I’m in the weird position of wanting both - closed borders and a reversal of climate change
then I guess the weird epiteth of “enlightened idiot” fully applies to you
I mean, wanting regulations for immigration is a valid political opinion, no? It’s not something that is inherently extreme right. It’s just hard to find a party catering to both because of the modern Kulturkampf.
Most people aren’t migrating of their own volition but fleeing war and famine. People I’ve seen advocating for “regulations for immigration” would rather have those people dying of hunger or exposure at their borders instead of letting them in.
Yeah, those people exist. I’m not one of them, but I can still see how someone would want their country to be a little less open about immigration. It can be comforting if people are a bit more like you, I guess.
NPD or “die Heimat” would work for you, right? Since you seem like you would like the slogan “Deutschland den Deutschen”.
Don’t ask people to vote for Nazis, not even ironically.
It’s literally the same issue. Changing climate is going to force mass migrations. Don’t like brown people? Maybe do everything you can to make sure their countries of origin remain liveable and prosperous. I’m guessing many would rather that then coming to some xenophobic land of full of a-holes in order to carve out some semblance of a future for their families.
Welp, solve climate change and the migration crisis will go away. (along with stopping the exploitation of resources and interference in poor countries affairs.)
If you are starting to like a European, especially a German, make sure to ask them their opinions on Syrians and Turks. Their answers may surprise you!
They sure as fuck surprised me 😰
I, as a German, once asked Syrian and Turkish friends on their opinion on Jews. Their answer “The only thing Hitler did wrong was not finishing the job.” sure surprised me as did other really shitty experiences with non-friends from the same Region.
Do I hate Syrians and Turks now? No, because I’m not a fucking asshole that generalizes whole groups of people.
My favorite thing about arguing with racist Europeans is that they are CONVINCED they aren’t racist, even though they literally just told me that Syrians are disgusting people who need to go home. Or this totally true story you just said.
You have no basis to make a claim about the poster you’re respinding to. Not good faith
TheControlled@lemmy.world (Nomen est omen?) removed any doubt you might have had about his character with this last comment.
He’s also the type of person who hears a radio alert about a wrong way driver on the Autobahn and thinks “One? There are thousands (and all of them are racists)!”
