- cross-posted to:
- kagi@lemmy.ml
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- kagi@lemmy.ml
- technology@beehaw.org
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/14100831
"No, seriously. All those things Google couldn’t find anymore? Top of the search pile. Queries that generated pages of spam in Google results? Fucking pristine on Kagi – the right answers, over and ov
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What kagi can’t fix is that most forums nowadays don’t exist anymore and moved over to discord which is also a big reason for worse search results.
For example I had a technical problem with a device of mine, searched for maybe half an hour on Google until I joined a related Discord. Searching there in the support channel and I found the fix for my problem. Would Discord not exist and all the content be queryable by Google I would have found my answer within seconds.
Absolutely despise discord, fucking internet herpes.
Yeah, Matrix is way better, but the search there is way too slow on busy channels.
Just post stuff on the open Internet…
I guess my point was that locking all that knowledge and troubleshooting behind chat interfaces, and obscuring it from search engines makes the internet worse
Agreed. But if it’s at least FOSS, it should be fairly easy to get the data out for searching.
That is kinda what it was designed for before profit got involved.
I really want to see more from the commune-os to make matrix communities more publically accessible or even selectivily. The AP bridge especially
And they use discord… JFC.
I think their discord is bridged to Matrix
I tried Kagi (free 100 query plan) and got about the same results as google/DDG. It’s kind of nice but I couldn’t see subscribing. I hate subscriptions. If they sold access for a flat fee per query (let’s say $5 for 200 queries) I’d buy that, and use a dozen or so queries a month. The rest of the time I’d keep using DDG or occasionally resorting to Google.
so I’ve just giving it a quick test vs google with the query “open source chromecast alternative”
the first result for both is a reddit post about NymphCast
it’s the rest of the results that are interesting though.
Google has a ycombinator news article about NymphCast and then decends into the usual “17 best chromecast alternatives in 2024” rubbish
Kagi on the other hand lists the github for NymphCast, and then goes on to list others… mirrorCast, pyCaster, free Cast, an article on using a raspberry pi as a chromecast alternative.
obviously this is only anecdotal, and very unscientific, but it’s got me interested for sure! Gonna bookmark it and see how it goes
No joke can you share those results? I’m holding out for matter cast
Huge bummer that they’re all 5+ years old. We’ve been moving to libreelec with Disney+, Jellycon, Netflix, Youtube, and amazon prime plugins. It’s not the same, but it’s workable. If Amazon keeps MatterCast open and open source implementations get made, that’s where I’m focusing my attention. A raspberry pi with libreelec that can be a casting target feels, to me, like the holy grail:
https://www.theverge.com/2024/1/9/24030324/amazon-matter-casting-echo-show-fire-tv-prime-video
I love the idea of paying for a high quality service that I use, but Kagi was significantly worse than Google. I searched for local businesses, programming questions, and general knowledge stuff.
I’ll try it again in a year or two and see if it works for me.
I switched to Kagi about 6 months back. It is overall better, but at least on par with Google, also as far as tech / programming - related questions go. Whenever I do not get a useful result from Kagi, it literally finds nothing - I then try Google for verification, which also lists absolutely no results. That happened approximately 4 times since I switched.
Kagi is worse than Google for: reviews, memes, porn, as well as “descriptive” searches, i. e. when trying to describe the desired result using natural language, e. g. “video game character that swallows everything” (I made that up just now for Kirby).
Kagi’s ability to use lenses and assign weights to sites can make a big difference.
At first, they didn’t have anonymous payments and an unattractive pricing model, but that has been fixed for a while, otherwise I wouldn’t have switched.
Overall, I am very satisfied and have absolutely zero plans of ever using Google again.
I find Kagi results slightly better but the interface is so much nicer and site ranking is great. Mostly though whenever I try using Google it just feels scummy and more obvious than ever that they are trying to shove ad garbage down my brain. I really hope I never need to go back to that again. Agree that crypto payment option for Kagi is clutch, but wish they made that more front and center. Unless you look for it Kagi wants your name, address, and credit card number and all your searches are linked to that. That’s even scummier than Google.
They claim that they don’t link/save your search history so although they have your details for payment, technically it’s not linked. If they aren’t lying…
I also don’t lie and will send you $10,000USD if you send me your credit card number, cell phone number and social. If I happen to accidentally leak your info a few thousand of my friends I will be sure to give you 10% off of a partially reputable ID protection watchdog service. If you trust random corporations that have almost no enforced security oversight, you really should trust this friendly internet stranger as much if not more.
Yup, it’s way too expensive. If they bundled it with another service to provide more value, I might consider it. But from some back-of-the-napkin math, they’re charging way more than their competitors make from ads.
I’d also be interested in a pay-per-search option. I’d be happy loading up $5 every so often if they other services didn’t find what I’m looking for.
Their business needs steady cashflows. You pay for the up time, not the queries.
Then they wouldn’t have tiered plans. Anyway try a $12/year plan with a few queries per month. $60/y adds up a lot faster.
I don’t use Kagi, but pretty sure they offer the plan you want.
They start at $5/month (https://kagi.com/pricing) and that misses some features. But, I thought they started at $10/month. It may have changed. Anyway, I hate subscriptions and would rather pay by the query. It’s something I’d use once in a while, so I don’t want to keep paying while it idles.
Even after all that payola, Google is still absurdly profitable. They have so much money, they were able to do a $80 billion stock buyback. Just a few months later, Google fired 12,000 skilled technical workers. Essentially, Google is saying that they don’t need to spend money on quality, because we’re all locked into using Google search. It’s cheaper to buy the default search box everywhere in the world than it is to make a product that is so good that even if we tried another search engine, we’d still prefer Google.
It’s been easily 15 years since I thought Google search was good.
Google has also gotten lazy and is prioritizing YouTube and Reddit results, instead of webcrawler results.
The reddit results are annoying because you can only see 2 related comments without logging in. I hate that shit. I look for stack overflow links
Change the URL to old.reddit.com.
For now…
Especially after they got rid of the compact interface completely, which was a more stripped-down version of the old one, that didn’t have any of the CSS, or special effects.
The last workaround stopped working as of a few days ago.
Old Reddit may well be next on the block.
Kagi uses Google’s search engine?? I didn’t know that, I thought they’d created their own search engine. If Google blocks Searx, why don’t they block Kagi?
Kagi pays Google for API access. They also query other sources of data as well as their own index.
https://help.kagi.com/kagi/search-details/search-sources.html#external
I suspect most of kagi’s subscription money actually went to google’s pocket. Google charges a lot of money to access their search api, about $5/1000 queries.
I genuinely think Google’s success is its own undoing.
If everybody had carried on making sites in the same way they did when Google came out, the results would still be good.
Bit they didn’t. There’s gold in them thar hills, and now SEO and generated bullshit are a way to make money, while Google’s algorithms seem easy to game if you have the resources to do so.
There’s like a hundred large companies doing this, and if you blocked all their sites in the Google results it’d give results similar to Kagi and other flavour of the month search engines.
I’m still very happy with the experience, especially the UX and customisation options, and they’re developing new features fast. Not always successfully at first, e.g. the recent integration of WolframAlpha isn’t entirely a step forward (mostly because they’re not displaying the extra context that WA shows that lets you know when it’s answering the wrong question).
I think overall most people are very happy, as shown by the frequent recommendations on here (so much so that someone on Lemmy was telling everyone it must be astroturfing).
I’m convinced a lot of it is astroturfing. It’s just too perfect and consistent, with the perfect answers for everything and just the right amount of fear mongering.
Removed by mod
I take your point, and agree when it comes to Google
But here’s rabbit hole for anyone interested. That brand name being synonymous with the product thing is actually fairly regional.
We just call them tissues here. I think you can get Kleenex brand here, but I don’t think anybody cares about the brand of tissue. There’s a particular kind that has some kind of aloe Vera extract which is all I’ll use if I’m sick, but I don’t even know what brand they are.
On the flip side, we call marker pens Biros, and where I grew up we called them Khokis
We call it a sleeve where I come from…
Yep, it’s regional.
Where I grew up only a few people used “kleenex”, and I never hear it where I live now.
I’ve used it for quite a while now, so I can safely say it’s not just the honeymoon effect. There are certain specific searches that I will prefer Google, for example if I know an exact string from a document that I’m looking for. Google still has a larger search base so if there’s information that can only be found in one or two places, Google is more likely to work. Image and video search on KAGI is still a little bit finicky. I might use Google, DDG, or Bing for those (Actually, DDG is just a front end for Bing in this regard). For everything else, when I’m looking for information or answers to questions, Kagi is the best there is.
I’ve recently started using Qwant since Mozilla has partnered with them and I’ve been pretty satisfied so far.
What Google has over every other search engine is local results. There’s just no getting around how much useful data Google has on every business in the world.
Been using kagi for several months now and can’t imagine going back. The only thing I still use google for is when I want to shop for a specific product after having used kagi to do my homework. I’m sure I can configure a filter for that, but haven’t gotten around to that yet.
I primarily use a couple locally hosted LLMs for searching for info now.
Larger LLMs are trained on so much info that they get the answer right surprisingly often.
Only thing they of course struggle with are recent events.
I thought Kagi shut down.
I guess turns out no but if I’m going to pay for search it’s something like Perplexity.
but if I’m going to pay for search it’s something like Perplexity.
Generative AI search engine Perplexity, which claims to be a Google competitor and recently snagged a $73.6 million Series B funding from investors like Jeff Bezos, is going to start selling ads, the company told ADWEEK…“Advertising was always part of how we’re going to build a great business,” said Shevelenko.
https://www.adweek.com/media/gen-ai-search-engine-perplexity-has-a-plan-to-sell-ads/
