Returning to Red Dead Redemption 2
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  • Encrypt-Keeper@lemmy.worldEnglish
    10·
    8 months ago

    I’ll never understand how people see anything in Arthur as a protagonist. Whether you play him good or bad, the guy has no thoughts of his own. He’s just a male version of the born sexy yesterday trope. The big payoff at the end of the game is that much like a three year old, he suddenly gains consciousness and self awareness. But you have to play through 40 hours of being a big dumb unthinking Neanderthal first.

      • Encrypt-Keeper@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        8 months ago

        I would say John is an anti-hero. A good man underneath who genuinely cares for his friends and family but doesn’t know how to live outside of crime. He knows what he wants and he has a goal in life but tragically, he just doesn’t know how to or is incapable of attaining it.

        Arthur is more like an idiot ward of the state who does crime because he doesn’t understand the difference between right and wrong. He has no goals, ambitions, or desires. He has no opinion or moral code. He doesn’t want anything and has nothing to work towards. The most humanizing thing about him is his journal, but his entire being amounts to little more than observations of the things around him. He’s like Data from Star Trek, but even Data had a goal, to become more human. Arthur doesn’t give a shit about being human. It’s so… uncompelling.

        • TheFriar@lemm.eeEnglish
          5·
          8 months ago

          Interesting. When you really dive into conversations he has with gang members, you do start finding out more about him. He was thrust into the life of crime, manipulated by Dutch for his own ends, and disposed of by him. Dutch tried to turn him into a soulless killing machine, but you find out more about how Arthur sees the world the more you do engage with people.

          Yeah, he is a vessel for the conflict between the bullshit about “living free” that Dutch preaches and the actual evil they do, but he has depth of his own as the story goes on.

          I get it, he does seem to be unthinking, but as an engine for the story, he embodies the conflict. Maybe you see that as being an empty character, I see it as an interesting storytelling device.

      • Encrypt-Keeper@lemmy.worldEnglish
        3·
        8 months ago

        Problem is the game tries to paint him as either a good guy or a bad guy based on the honor system, but he’s not a good guy or a bad guy or complex guy either. He’s not much of a guy at all. His only driving force in the entire game is a blind trust in his father figure. The only internal conflict he has in the entire game is the extremely late realization in his forties that his “dad” isn’t an all-knowing benevolent entity, but is a flawed, self-serving human just like everyone else, and that he needs to learn to think for himself for once. And once he reaches the stage of independent thought, we’re already done playing as him lol.

        I think his character would be much more compelling if Arthur made this transition after the first act, and not the final hour of gameplay. An RDR2 where Arthur has been freed of his entirely being’s reliance on Dutch and a conflict with Dutch taking a bigger role in the plot.

        • AXLplosion@lemmy.zipEnglish
          3·
          8 months ago

          Agreed. The writing and acting of RDR2 are amazing, but as a whole, the story of the game kind of felt empty in the end. I think I might revisit the game later to see if I’ll enjoy it more, but I just don’t see Arthur as that great of a character from a narrative viewpoint. After the first couple times Dutch’s “plans” failed I started to really question why Arthur, or any of the other gang members really, would continue trusting him so blindly. I think that may have broken my immersion even more than the restrictive mission design where I also murdered like a thousand people.

          • Encrypt-Keeper@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3·
            8 months ago

            Yeah like the interactions between the side characters that you get to hear at camp or on missions were far more interesting than anything Arthur had going on. Dutch was a stand out as well. If you think about it, and given the context of the first game, RDR2 is really about Dutch. He might not be the protagonist but he’s more of a main character than Arthur was, and had a more compelling character arc, even if the “character growth” was the inverse of what you’d expect.

            The only plot line with Arthur that actually portrayed any interesting development was the side plot of the mother and son whose father you basically killed. That plot line, and more like it should have been part of the main plot.

        • groats_survivor@lemmy.worldEnglish
          1·
          8 months ago

          He is the protagonist because the story revolves around him as the main character. I’m not saying you should like the game or the character. Him being the protagonist is independent on whether you like him as a character or the game. Protagonist literally means main character of a story, which he objectively is.

    • tacosanonymous@lemm.eeEnglish
      2·
      8 months ago

      Is there a reason that piped.video almost never works for me?

      They either never load, constantly reload or just fail to play.

      • Krackalot@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        2·
        8 months ago

        They’re not a multi-billion dollar company. It’s slower. Sometimes, it requires reloads. Always works for me through Firefox. I just have to wait for the video to load. it can take a bit sometimes.