I’m done, I’ve been banned for expressing a different opinion (without insulting or personally attacking anyone), I’ve been accused of evading a ban with multiple accounts (this is my only account I’ve ever had on any lemmy instance), I’ve had people selectively ignore my comments and accuse me of things which I never said, and I’ve had people ignore valid criticisms and keep attacking me.
Reddit has many issues with trolls, one-sided discussion, and just general bullshit, but many Lemmy instances are way worse. The newfound freedom of Lemmy has attracted many extremists, from both sides, and many of them are moderators, who are more than happy to remove any contrarian opinions. This results in discussions being echo chambers
Lemmy (and reddit to a degree) is not like other social networks where you are lumped into one giant community. It’s many communities, and you’ll find that you are welcome in some and not welcome in others. That includes your politics and your views.
I don’t think I’d be very welcome in a community of conspiracy nuts, especially when I counter everything they say. I think they would remove me from that community at some point, and that’s okay, self policing of communities is okay. Sometimes you aren’t welcome.
Yes and that’s what I like about Lemmy. Each community decides what it’s about and how it’s members behave. It’s not much different from communities in real life.
Do you believe in aliens?
Not OP but, I think if space is as big as we think it is outside the observable universe, it’s very likely that they exist. I think it’s not very likely that they’ve visited us.
Every known civilization seems to burn their home atmosphere well before they achieve inter-system travel.
Do you have a single non-fiction example
Yes, in fact it’s pretty obvious.
So obvious you couldn’t give me anything, huh
She goes to a different school… or something.
Is this an unpopular opinion? My block list on Lemmy is like 4 times bigger than it was on Reddit.
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Removed by mod
I haven’t seen too many right wingers on lemmy. I think the lefties have managed to make it hostile enough to conservatives to deter the bulk of them
There are so many more extreme “leftists” that their beliefs seem to loop all the way around. Lots of people that want to see Trump win because “fuck America”. Lots of tankies that bootlick everything Russia and/or China do.
It’s not so much that there is a wraparound. Or any sort of “horseshoe”. It’s that authoritarians are authoritarian first. Notions of left or right boil down to what’s convenient to them as an afterthought.
The actual extreme leftists are generally pretty chill and supportive. Unlike authoritarians.
My block list is extremely large too. It seems someone wants to make a community for everything no matter now niche it is. And so many random anime comms I have to block as I am not a anime fan. I get the message when browsing all “you have blocked all posts on page x” so often it’s become an annoyance.
i have said this before, but don’t have the energy to do something about it: a problem in lemmy is, that there are no categories to subscribe or block. like if someone hates sports, he can’t block all sports, but must either subscribe everything but sports (impossible) or block/filter every new spots sub or sports post author (impossible as well)
Lemmy is still in the alpha stage, but absolutely this would make a heck of a lot easier:-).
Otherwise it’s a continual issue - every month someone creates new communities that you have to first visit, then block, and then again, and again, and again.
It’s not that bad, but it could be better:-).
I would love if my app would let me block a community from the post on all. I do it SO often.
Voyager does, fwiw
Connect has a block community and block instance feature, give it a shot!
Lemmy 0.19.X allows that.
Lemmyworld will update in March (forgot the exact date)
Once in a while I search for communities I might like and subscribe to them. I then only browse my subscribed communities, so I don’t have to block communities. I think of it as white listing my Lemmy feed.
Browsing all and then blocking communities I don’t like seems like black listing. It seems like it’s a lot more work.
This, there’s some crazy people no matter where you go.
For example, yesterday some loon was attacking another poster because he viewed it as, anti-American. Suffice to say, it was not and he misconstrued what was said and he was humanly incapable of admitting wrongdoing. His response was to make burner accounts and downvote bomb the user.
Yeah, it’s pretty funny how extreme some people are. Of course in real life they don’t say shit.
They probably do, but no one listens to the weird guy arguing with his reflection on the bus.
I prefer tagging people’s profiles, not sure if that’s just a sync feature though.
Still get to see their comments, but it has your tag for them next to their name so you can prepare yourself lol.
It’s almost getting too long.
I’ve considered going the other way, and only browse “subscribed” - but then I would miss smaller/newer posts & communities… so I leave it on “all” and block away.
Hold up… If this is your one and only Lemmy account, and it’s banned… How are you making this post?
According to the modlogs: the only action ever taken against you by a mod or admin was having a single post removed. I don’t agree with the reason that it broke rule 1 though… I don’t agree with what you said because it’s misinformed, but what you said was not racist.
So you’re lying either about not having other accounts and evading a ban, or about how you’ve been banned or how often you’ve had content removed.
Modlog is weird. There is a possibility he’s been banned from an instance and that’s what he meant.
When I was banned from StarTrek.Website I had no idea. It didn’t show in Lemmy.world logs, only ST.W ones
Edit: Yep. He was banned from lemmy.ml. Funny enough, that should actually improve his lemmy experience.
Banned from Lemmygrad Lite? What a terrible loss!
I couldn’t agree more (Also, for formality: I dislike you)
Anyway, this wrong loser is right: If you’re not going to vibe with the place, it’s not a big deal if you’re not welcomed. The beauty of the fediverse is that the admin of blahaj, who is quite open about their zero tolerance of nontolerance policy, does not have the capability to ban you from lemmy.
Like, if you were dating a chick who you weren’t compatible with, why the hell would you want to stick around? Accept the incompatibility and move on.
As a leftist I absolutely concur with your assessment. The only time I go to .ML is on accident. And I’m usually down voted. Though I do get a good chuckle on the off instance I’m not.
Same experience here. Leftist who has studied political science and economics. I have very gently corrected some of the century-old, outdated leftist dogma on .ml and get nothing but bans for it.
They have pretty much been completely hijacked by right wing trolls, and it’s frankly incredible that the few remaining actual leftists can’t see it.
Seems like a pretty objective open minded comment to me, I wonder what they replied to.
I looked up rule 1 if lemmy.ml: No bigotry - including racism, sexism, ableism, homophobia, transphobia, or xenophobia. Code of Conduct.
The code of conduct is that of Lemmy org, I never read it till now and I’m very disappointed by the next part: “Remarks that moderators find inappropriate, whether listed in the code of conduct or not, are also not allowed.”. Basically total mod discretion, so by extension, “rule 1” of lemmy.ml also boils down to total mod discretion.
According to the code of conduct, there’s also supposed to be first warnings, temporary bans and the chance for repeals according to the code of conduct. Which does sound nice, but I wonder if it’s also done in practice in some Lemmy communities. It seems pretty hard to provide a system for this that is not based on happenstance. Does anyone have experience with this?
Lemmy.world has defederated from Lemmy.ml but even before I moved over here, I had been avoiding them on my old instance. Why? They were removing posts with no notification and had banned me with no notification or warning. What was the post? A Jimmy Neutron meme. “This is my first gay character!” “Disney, this is your 14th first gay character”. My title said something like “It’s always the first in China when they’re removed before airing”. What was the reason? Rule 1 of the site as a whole. I talked with another very heavy poster and he had stuff removed as well with no warning. Also had a dicey conversation with an admin. Just gave up and started avoiding it. I don’t think I ever got permanently banned from there (although I did from Hexbear for ‘perjery’) but if I did I wouldn’t have cared much.
Lemmy.world and lemmy.ml are still federated. You might have it confused with the defederation from hexbear and lemmygrad (both autocratic loving tankies, who are also extremely obnoxious).
I wasn’t sure before and I wanted to look it up, that’s why I didn’t reply earlier.
https://lemmy.world/instances The blocked instances are at the bottom.
Here are some small pieces of advice for you, and anyone else who is interested:
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Block Lemmygrad.ml, because fascists.
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Block Lemmy.ml, because admins are fascists.
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Block Hexbear.net, because fascists and trolls.
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Block any user from Lemmygrad.ml, Hexbear.net, and the usual suspects from Lemmy.ml.
That’s it. 90% of toxicity is no more.
You have a strange definition of fascism. I’ve poked around in those instances to see what the fuss is about. They’re super far left and very much ideologically opposed to fascism. They’re something weird, but they’re definitely not fascists.
They support Russia and the CCP, both of which have the warning signs of Fascism. Even if you want to call it something else, doesn’t change that it’s terrible.
Fascists believe in inequality based on identity. And most on lemmygrad agree that Russia is a far right regime.
I don’t know lemmygrad. I know lemmy.ml and gave up on that when I was just having the same discussions, and the same debunking points over and over again. I don’t have the energy for politics 24/7, especially when I don’t think any predominate political group cares about me or the problems I care about.
Most agree? You linked a post without votes or comments…
Huh, that’s weird. Try again? But surprisingly it’s also on web-archive
Yikes, seems like the American right wing is fascist too. What’s bizarre about all of this is that the tankies are very much opposed to the American right too. So they’re anti-fascist? It seems that they’re so opposed to western capital that they’ll cheer for some really shitty governments because they’re also fighting western capital.
They aren’t left in any meaningful way. Let alone far left. What they are is wildly hypocritical and authoritarian. While they are technically not fascists. Realistically they’re nearly identical. They are both both authoritarian ideologies. With no room for any meaningful right or left. And should you dissent you will find yourself silenced or killed just the same as any other authoritarian/fascist government structure.
No, that’s not really correct. They’re pro-democracy since true communism requires democracy. They believe western governments have been captured by capitalists and therefore need to be opposed. That’s why they tend to cheer for authoritarian regimes because they’re fighting what they consider to be the good fight. They believe that once western capitalism has been defeated, communism can finally flourish, since the only reason communist governments are authoritarian is to protect themselves from the west.
True, communism does require democracy. Which is why they aren’t truly communist or democratic. Democracy is kind of the opposite of silencing and killing those that go against the party. Ya know? Lol next you’ll try to tell me that North Korea is actually a Democratic People’s Republic.
Okay don’t listen. Whatever.
I’ve heard it several times. It doesn’t get any more true no matter how much you repeat it. It would take another revolution before they would actually switch to communism. ML are just about as bad as the imperialist capitalists they hate in most measures. Far worse in others. They both suck in their whataboutism of the other.
What am I repeating? You’re trying to have an argue against points I am not making. Go to lemmygrad if you want to argue with them.
They sure like to glorify countries that will arrest or kill you for being gay. So there’s that.
Which is bizarre, done since they screen for lgbt haters when you try to sign up
If you disagree with American imperialism constantly overthrowing every government in existence, and israel doing Genocide, you are a Fascist!
Here’s the thing, if you disagree with American imperialism but you’re actively cheering on Russian imperialism, you’re a hypocrite.
It’s fine to be polarized against the actions of the American government. There are quite a lot of people who are, even within the states. It’s fine to be polarized against the west. Being at least wary of the west permeates pretty much everywhere in the east.
It’s not fine to call out imperialism from the west with one side of your mouth and praise imperialism from the east with the other side. And brother, I haven’t met someone on the tankie communities that doesn’t get a hard on simping for the Russian war.
simping for the Russian war.
They’ll say Russia is bad if you push them.
And then they’ll continue to defend Putin literally every chance they get.
They’re super far left and very much ideologically opposed to fascism.
They deleted a comment in which I quoted the first line of the Wikipedia article on social democracy. The reason given was “misinformation”.
Fascism is characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, forcible suppression of opposition.
I can very much see how that would apply.
Isnt that just authoritarianism, not specifically facism?
Sort of yeah, although authoritarianism doesn’t have as much implication to a centralized autocracy or dictatorial leader.
I think one could argue that the mods are a centralized autocracy, but it’d be hard to argue there’s a dictatorial leader, perhaps, unless there’s some “main” mod. Idk. I’m fairly new to this whole Fediverse thing, just came in a week or two ago from Reddit.
Also, imo, political labels are just sort of… subjective. There’s wiggle-room in definitions and practices. I think the reality of what is happening matters more than what label we use to describe it, but the label we do use helps people understand what we’re talking about. Although, sometimes, it obviously also misleads, as the connotations and implications and definitions vary.
But I would agree with you that “fascism” is often too easily equated to authoritarianism that isn’t necessarily far-right in the same way. It’s just a convenient colloquial shortcut, essentially.
I would argue that fascism is indeed characterized by those things, but fascism is associated with the right, not the left. You’re not a fascist if your trying to create equality for all, even if your actions are crazy. It’s something else, but not facism.
Well, it’s gonna be hard to accurately label all the mad authoritarian bastards we’ve had.
Some called Stalinism “red fascism”, but yes, I do get your point.
My point is rather that, like “literally”, “fascism” has started veering away from the prescriptive, “official” meaning it has, and more towards a (colloquial) generalised term for autocrats and authoritarian behaviour. Colloquial language is what it is, unfortunately.
Yeah I know. I think it’s mostly people new to the topic not understanding the nuances. But that still worries me since it seems wrong to lump communists in the same group as fascists. Seems almost sinister imo. The two groups could not stand for more different things.
It’s problematic that a lot of people conflate communism with fascism and/or authoritarianism.
Communism might be ideological, sure, but it’s not a form of government, it’s an economic system. No, I don’t believe any preplanned economy (which “real” communism sort of requires) would work in this day and age. However, I can definitely imagine it working in the far future.
It’s not especially well explained how the economy works in Star Trek, but that is communism, and I don’t see much fascism there.
(CCCP was autocratic communism, just so we’re clear on what their system of government was.)
I believe it’s largely due to the red scare. Which is also why so many Americans and (wannabe-American libertarians) conflate “socialism” with “communism”. The same people also have a milder issue, conflating “capitalism” with “market economy.”
I literally had a guy tell me “fascism is preferable to communism”. And this guy lives in Finland and was from an academic bourgeoisie family, so should have basic education on what fascism actually is.
But no, they don’t fucking get it.
I used to wonder, as a younger man, how on Earth the Nazi ever gathered enough support. I thought it’s maybe one of those “fool me once” things, and people in the early 20th century weren’t as connected or literate as we are.
But now it’s happening again? Despite us having seen what happened last time? Despite us having unlimited connections to literally the whole world and it’s information?
It just… depresses me so. I want to fight the windmills, but always having to fight alone is exhausting.
Yeah it’s actually refreshing to see their pov on things, don’t always agree but they bring up good points
hexbear in particular is very supportive of marginalized groups and positive in general. I’m glad lemm.ee didn’t defederate with the ml boogeymen
I put up with hexbear for awhile, but I ended up blocking them eventually.
Sure, they don’t mind explaining their points if you’re careful about asking. But god forbid you express disagreement. If you aren’t with them completely, you’re a fascist.
But god forbid you express disagreement. If you aren’t with them completely, you’re a fascist.
That’s fair game. If they express their opinion at Lemmy.world we would also
lablelabel them as fascist. Their community is their safe sanctuary where they can do unto others, what others do unto them.If you say so. It isn’t really my problem anymore either way. They can be insufferable by themselves if that’s what they truly want
Found the fascist! /s
^I’m ^just ^referencing ^the ^movie ^and ^being ^silly, ^not ^actually ^calling ^you ^a ^hag ^lol
I don’t block any of them. In fact that’s what I like about lemmy. This instance would definitely have been banned at Reddit. In fact, I want to see different opinions. I like to read how people of different opinions think. The only thing that I wish I wouldnt see are those very annoying meme/pics (comments) at hexbear.
This is part of the problem. People believing you but you are just calling peoples opinions you disagree with fascist lol. Most of these communities are communist afaik
Most of these communities call themselves communists, but fall are so knee deep in logic fallacies, you spend more time picking their arguments apart then having a conversation. I gave up on lemmy.ml, because it was only a matter of time before I got banned anyway. Way too many people are basically “west/America bad, ergo Russia/CCP good.”
Basically. After omitting that user base things are much better, if still healthily combative.
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There is one MAJOR difference: here you can make not only your own sub/community, where you can be your own mod, but you can spin up your own whole entire instance, and become your own admin. Oh Reddit, you serve The Man (spez) or you can GTFO - so we did the latter:-P (some perhaps due to being kicked out of their former mod role bc of the protests) - but here, nobody can tell us what to do, in the end.
Ofc there are limits even there, like someone can defederate from you if you refuse to control yourself, even unintentionally like if you don’t follow basic security and constantly get hacked.
It’s like being able to own your own home. When you visit a community on someone else’s instance, you are their GUEST, and you have to follow THEIR rules. The homeowner owns the community while the mayor or governor or President or Prime Minister or whatever controls the entire city / state / country or in this case “instance”. Right or wrong, it’s THEIRS, so your options are limited - you don’t get to just walk into someone else’s HOME and tell them what to do!?
But here, unlike Reddit, on your own personal computer (desktop machine even, doesn’t need a whole “server”) you can make your own place. From there, you could invite others… or not, as you choose. Inside your own home, unless you do something that may cause the police (like FBI) to come knocking, you control yourself, and also you have the responsibility and right to kick off anyone you choose who refuses to play by the rules that YOU set forth.
So do whatever you want. Ofc others have the same freedom too.
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You’re spot on correct. Lemmy has become a safe-haven for both tankies, and right-with trolls disguising themselves as tankies. And if you find yourself responding to some of their propaganda in the wrong community/instance…. It’s an insta-ban. No questions asked or answered. No appeal.
Ohhhh nooooo. Whatever will we do without your rationalization of genocide and blocking strikes?
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Ive this one tagged as “Russian shill.” Theres a bunch of these whose primary purpose on lemmy seems to be spouting as much kremlin approved talking points as possible, often attempting so lowkey, all while projecting absolutely nonhuman levels of confidence. They typically show up with at least a couple alt accounts just to upvote all their “opinions,” and downvote dissenters.
Are you saying everybody who voted for Biden in the 2020 general election is going to vote for him again? And if not where do you suppose those people are sharing their perspective?
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characterizing their legitimate complaints as with manufactured or outrage is just a rhetorical device. it doesn’t address what they said at all.
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this is just more rhetoric
Blocking strikes and supporting genocide. Is this the first time you’re hearing those complaints?
Buddy, manufactured or not I’m not voting for Biden again. I’ll be voting 3rd party or write in. If you think Biden needs my vote to defeat Trump then you best get on Biden to start compromising with leftists and progressives.
It’s truly crazy to me how you all think that continuing to repeat the same tired arguments is going to change our minds. It won’t. It’s time to focus your energy on something that might have an effect. Try calling out moderates for refusing to compromise. Call Biden out for refusing to compromise.
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Moderates are the major voting bloc of the Democrat party. They hold the lions share of the responsibility for how the candidate they chose in the 2020 primaries does in the general elections.
The rest of us are trying to keep this ship floating for everyone. Either help, or hop out.
If Biden is going to continue to block strikes and support genocide I’m out. If you want my help then give us a seat at the table. Compromise on some policy decisions. If the only way you’re willing to try to keep the ship floating is by screaming at people to vote for someone who refuses to compromise with them you have nothing to offer.
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How about you compromise with leftists and progressives if you need their votes so badly?
Not voting for the lesser of two evils leaves room for the greater of two evils to take root
The people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries voted for the greater evil.
Shit post, or actually an honest opinion?
If that’s an honest opinion, what’s your reasoning?
Not trying to bust your balls or anything, just curious.
Biden is a strike blocking, genocide supporting procorporate piece of shit.
Ahh, sorry I misread where you specified “primaries” in your original statement. No real mystery there.
I thought it was originally pertaining to Trump vs Biden. My bad.
No worries sir :)
I agree, it is impossible to hold a contrarian view in a lot of subs. The mods and the user base on Lemmy have a very narrow range of their views than the spectrum that you find on Reddit. It is basically an echo chamber in a lot of subs.
The active user base is also soo much smaller that a handful of posters can be seen in certain subs. I see the same people posting over and over at a much higher rate than I saw on Reddit.
So are you posting good content to help the issue? Or are you just posting “contrarian” opinions?
I’ve never had a problem being banned and I argue with Tankies and Right Wing Chuds all the time (well I mostly just block the Chuds). It sounds like your comments are just bad enough to warrant a block.
I have detailed comments about how both Hamas and the IDF are bad. Here’s one: “Hamas is a criminal organization that is terrible at government. It’s Israel’s fault for letting them grow to be so dangerous. The IDF and Hamas are both bad for the people of Palestine and Israel.”
No ban!
Have you tried on hexbear or .ml?
I got banned for explaining the history of ethnic violence in China. Specifically when I brought up a quote about the dangers of Han chauvinism, which of course was called “reactionary”. The quote was from Mao.
Yes, but… lol. They know very little about Marx, Stalin, Mao, or any of the differences between them. The USSR and the PRC only cooperated when they had to.
It’s amazing how “Capitalist” countries can have international relations based on shared ideals and “Communist” countries have mostly transactional relationships. Reminds me of college where the “Daily Worker” was the only paper that cost money. 🤣
Ok wasn’t just me then.
Yep, got a ban on ML without even realizing what was going on and just for asking who people should vote for besides Biden if we weren’t voting for Biden. That was considered “reactionary” and “reddit” behavior. Was also cited Mao where he says that anyone who doesn’t fully understand all aspects of an issue has no right to ask questions–they literally believe that.
Was also cited Mao where he says that anyone who doesn’t fully understand all aspects of an issue has no right to ask questions–they literally believe that.
Yeah… Sounds about right. That sub likes to latch onto some pretty fundamental misunderstandings of Mao’s writings.
The real quote is “NO INVESTIGATION, NO RIGHT TO SPEAK”. Which basically boils down to - you should probably do some research before arguing with people.
Which on it’s face value is pretty generic, but decent advise. What it doesn’t mean is that you can’t question someone else’s viewpoint.
I think the most ironic part of this is in that same essay Mao writes about the importance of self criticism, and argues that we shouldn’t inherently trust appeals to authority.
"It is quite wrong to take a formalistic attitude and blindly carry out directives without discussing and examining them in the light of actual conditions simply because they come from a higher organ. "
That sub likes to pretend they spend time reading theory, when in reality its just an echo chamber that amplifies the vapid view point of a couple different active users. Users whom like to pretend that every bad decision the CCP ever made were errors forced upon them by the West. Even when it’s something like the cultural revolution, which even the CCP itself has admitted was misguided.
I am so thankful to read this comment. My experiences with them really left me feeling confused. It is good to understand that I was not alone in these experiences.
Imo they saw how effective shit posting on Reddit was for nursing extremist right wing views and decided to copy the formula. However, they didn’t understand that the motivation for fascist are fundamentally antithetical to what motivates most socialist.
Fascist are fueled by divisive propaganda, dividing and conquering your foes. While socialism is fueled by collectivism, turning your enemy into your friends via mutual support.
Wow. This is precisely what I’ve observed.
I didn’t get banned but got a couple of my comments deleted from ML. I don’t even know what they were but I don’t usually go back and forth with people in a thread so the mod had to go through my history and just delete comments from various threads that I had made on their instance.
ML is one of those instances filled with people who sort site-wide comments by new and hit F5 every 10 seconds all day long. They are literally waiting to pounce.
My mistake was trying to be closer to the devs, which would mean quicker updates. I had no idea that ML meant Marxism-Leninism.
ETA: I don’t actually have a problem with communism and more or less accept the basic tenants. These people, however, are no different from Evangelicals or Sovereign Citizens.
In my experience your views aren’t really contrarian to that of the majority of Lemmy users and mods. Your pretty mainstream and vanilla here.
Try taking a pro Israel stance or pro 2A stance and see how long it will be until you are banned even if you follow all sub rules.
Why would I take a pro-death stance? If you are being dumb, people are going to tell you. Welcome to the real world. Free speech doesn’t mean people have to listen to you.
Thank you for making my point for me.
Actually they pretty much drove over your point and then put the car into reverse.
Yeah for a bunch of the subs on here I see the most common comments are the “circlejerky” responses despite being wrong or misleading but there’s no point correcting it cause the traffic is so low and it takes too much effort.
Oh, Lemmy is much worse in this regard. There are a lot of “normal” discussions on reddit, with a lot of “normal” users participating in them. Here the ratio of extremists is much higher.
I’ve found it to be precisely the opposite. You may be commenting in some particularly toxic instances.
This really isn’t unpopular. If anything I would say this is the more popular opinion
I just got banned from blahaj for suggesting we should show understanding to rightwing people, because they view the left in the same way as we view them. It creates more division for no reason other than being unwilling to communicate.
Reason: Bigot
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Step 1: go to a trans instance.
Step 2: Tell them that the supporters of a party that wants to erradicate them aren’t so bad.
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Whine about how they banned you.
Read the room smart guy. It ain’t a site wide ban anyhow.
Not at all what i said here or in the post. I speak from experience on this, there are a lot of people being influenced by the extremists that can still be communicated with. This attitude is exactly what i’m referring to as well. You put them all under the same umbrella, which, if we keep doing this, will only make the problems for people on both sides worse.
I don’t mind the ban much, I can just make another account. But I think it is representative of an issue larger than Lemmy.
The problem is that we do not want to spend our entire life “influencing” others. The admin of Blahaj specifically made the instance in order to be a place where we don’t have to deal with that burden.
If you want to go deal with transphobic fucktards and try to advocate for tolerance then you go right ahead. No one is stopping you.
First, i want to make it extremely clear that i am NOT advocating for “tolerance” with these people. I am advocating for communication and education. We should not simply tolerate having people hate us, especially with the level some extremists are willing to go to.
I understand the need for a safe space. It’s a good concept. But there’s a fine line between safe space and political echo chamber. Once you start banning people for advocating for an option other than hate, it becomes problematic.
I have successfully disageed with the Blahaj admin about this issue and I remain unbanned.
Well that’s a good sign at least. I think i just ran into a triggerhappy mod.
Yeah, this is a baffling take. LGBTQ+ folks and lefties are not actively using legislation and direct violence to eradicate the conservative bigots. I’ll call them bigots and detest their existence and fight against their power grabs…but I’m not actively trying to commit ethnic/societal cleansing.
And why do they think like that? The only thing they see in their bubble is the most extreme and annoying propagandized depiction of us. And the solution somehow is to push them even further away? There’s plenty of people out there who held extreme beliefs and have been humbled through mere interaction with someone of the opposing group.
What we’re doing here is the same as what they do. Portray them all in the same horrible light. Someome who thinks “as long as they keep it in the bedroom” 10 years ago, will now be much more likely to be more extreme because of echo chambers.
Someone who think “as long as they dont force their religious values on us” is now much more likely to think they all want to eradicate us, because of echo chambers.
We/they (I’m a leftist, but not really LGBTQ+) don’t think they want to eradicate us, we know that they want to eradicate us. Their penchant for violence and bigotry was the initial violation of the social contract and our rejection and intolerance of their hatred is the consequence. I can present a polite face to someone and hate them without wishing for their death or attacking them directly. I attack their ideology, actions, and effects, but I do not attack individuals, physically, verbally, or otherwise.
So you’re saying their methods are more aggressive. You’re not describing your average trump supporter, right? You’re describing the extreme, just like they describe the extremists of the left in their propaganda. I’m not suggesting we waste time on extremists. I’m suggesting there is hope for the rest of them.
The “average” ones that I’ve encountered don’t endorse outright violence, but they would very much like for all the “undesirables” to just disappear somehow…they’re just not too troubled about how that happens, so they turn a blind eye to the more extreme/more violent ones.
Okay, which brings me back to, why push those people further away, so they only strengthen that worldview rather than trying to communicate with them and show them who we really are? It’s not like you don’t want the undesirables to go away somehow as well, right?
I try to avoid politics in Lemmy whenever I have an opinion that doesn’t match the community’s agenda because I know I’ll get banned in a second.
… And then they complain about Elon Musk doing the same in Twitter.
It’s like their irony detection system is faulty.
I wouldn’t be surprised if I get banned for this comment.
It wasn’t even in a blahaj sub. But they did nuke the account. I’m not about to censor myself regardless though, if I can’t have the less restrictive reddit I was promised on lemmy, i might as well be back on reddit. I refuse to contribute to more echo chambers. If something is a bad take, i will point it out. if someone points out my reasoning is faulty, i learned something. If we can’t have that, we’re just sitting behind our computers, patting ourselves on the back about how right we are about everything.
It’s not the same view if one is defensive and the other is offensive. You don’t communicate a Nazi out of being a Nazi, it takes a willingness to hear things that are hard to hear. It’s commonly referred to as the just world fallacy and they don’t just need to be communicated with, they need therapy.
Well precisely. But how can you expect them to become willing if you just hurl insults back at them. They will assume you are exactly the person you think they are and isolate themselves further in that community. I’m not saying fight hate with love, but no progress can be made without a willingness to communicate.
They will think people are what they think they are regardless because a demagogue told them to. Like covid is a hoax while they watch people around them literally die from it. We’re not talking about rational or reasonable people here, we’re talking about people who are so lost they need professional help.
But that’s just the thing. It is entirely reasonable in their worldview. They don’t hate just because they love hating, at least not on a conscious level. They have a whole lore about their ideology too. The problem js lack of ability to think critically and echochambers to reinforce their views. Now imagine an open community, where everyone can have an opinion left, right, or center, but only get banned for being intentionally hurtful. We can save the people who have not yet come to a conclusion, rather than their beliefs essentially being validated through hostile responses.
We have gone so far goddamn south to the point people on the left think free speech is nothing more than a right wing dogwhistle.
How long you decide they just need professional help too.It’s the inevitable bubbling of echochambers that’s so harmful, but so atteactive for people to take part in that i believe to be the reason for a lot of the world’s problems today. Including covid deniers mind you. If they were exposed to proper evidence before they got dragged into an echo chamber, do you think they still believe what they believe?
Most of them are normal people, not deranged monsters, but we cast them as such to make ourselves feel better and give an easy explanation as to how someone can end up like that.
I’d just like to point out that this entire comment chain is proof against OP’s point. Both of you are having a conversation about a politically heated topic, and since you are both being reasonable in communication with each other, neither of you are getting up or downvoted into oblivion. I get where you are coming from Wathek, I in fact even agree with you, but blahaj is likely a safe zone instance, the people there are there to have an escape/reprieve from the harsh realities of the real world. So it isnt the place to argue communication with people who are actively causing problems for that community. Its why I blocked twox as soon as it migrated here to lemmy, I’m not the target demographic and I dont particularly want to see the ugly side of their venting. Going into their instance to argue with them isn’t the right play
I think the mod glanced over the comment and was a little triggerhappy. It was not in a blahaj thread, and the post (along with the rest of the comment chain) first got removed for being off topic in that sub by the mods of thst instance. Which i guess is what got the blahaj mod’s attention.
I didn’t come to blahaj to be a contrarian. I like the place. That’s why i made my account there. I didnt go there to argue about politics, but if it keeps popping in my feed, i see someone with a bad take, i’m going to respond. If that’s what they decide to ban, so be it. ill find another place to call home in the fediverse.
I get your frustration. I’ve seen a few of your posts around, and seen some people harp on you because of what they perceive to be your politics. I personally haven’t delved into your posting history, but (take this with a grain of salt) you may need to develop a thicker skin online.
People feel more empowered to say what they feel online - just like you’ve been doing. It’s easy and you are fairly shielded with your online identity. Mods and admins have this privilege as well, and fair or not, you do have to abide by their rules or leave.
Sometimes that’s a hard pill to swallow. Nobody likes to accept defeat; especially when they feel passionately about something.
Good luck with whichever direction turn you choose to go.
And everyone says to just ban or block, but the problem is they’re brainwashing people that don’t know to look out for it They need to not exist; not for us to just hide from them.
Thank you for this post. It’s become unbearable and I felt like I was in a tiny minority for feeling this way.
My reasoning is that the people should be the “mods” essentially. If one community gets blocked by the majority of the people, then it might as well not exist. It will eventually die out through not enough people upvoting/downvoting, commenting, and basically interacting with them at all. The “any publicity is good publicity” saying applies to anything on the Internet.
If you have the energy to fight it, then fight it. If you dont, ban or block. Leaving the site itself has the same lack of impact against propaganda as deciding this fight isnt for you and banning and blocking. Change is hard
Removed by mod
This is satire, right?
I don’t think so. I think it’s a metaphor.
The opposite of totality is anything less than. Disproving you merely requires pointing out a single instance.
No u.
deleted by creator
Block whole communities. That’s what I started doing. There’s one instance that I would like to block but that feature isn’t available yet as far as I’m aware. Reddit was the same way around 10 years ago, it’s been pruned and censored to the point where it’s more appealing to the average worldwide user. I don’t want that to happen to Lemmy; not to sound dismissive, but utilize your block list instead of calling for more/better mods.
Unfortunately Lemmy.world hasn’t moved to version 0.19.x or else you would have the ability to block instances
Heavily waiting on this. Can’t browse ALL without being spammed by lemmynsfw.
This is another instance I would like to block. The onlyfans brigade is strong on lemmy.
Worse: I’m gay so I can’t even enjoy the accidental peak.
It’s not even enjoyable for me because it’s literal spam posts. It’s like the old school sex phone commercials. Doesn’t matter what the hot girl is doing or saying in the commercial, just put my show back on.
The communities you block can still brigade the threads you read though.
Instance blocking exists now, I used to ban all hexbear communities when I saw them pop up, but now I just have a blanket ban on anything hexbear, so I dont need to do that anymore
Did you do it through an app or browser?
I’m on lemm.ee on browser, I’m an old fart who refuses to download apps when it can be done over the internet
I’m not even that old (no offense) and I do that too. I’ll use apps if it doesn’t collect any data, and preferably FOSS, like Voyager. Anyways, thanks for the tip, I’ll log in on browser for my instance blocking needs.
Edit: jk, according to another comment, it’s not available on lemmy.world at the moment. Soon though.
I’ve blocked at least 50 porn communities in the last 5 months. Probably more.
I would probably still use reddit, but basically gave up on it when i could no longer block subreddits, yet they could still block me.
Lemmy is getting bad FAST with virtue signaling in particular. It’s like the worst of the worst when it comes to things like that left Reddit and came here. So much tiny little bullshit gets twisted in to what a horrible a disgusting person you are and blah blah blah.
I really do like this alternative but… It’s turning pretty fucking toxic fast. I’m scared what road it’s going down.
I just had a discussion this past week with Lvxferre who convinced me that I was wrong and this is actually true, but I still think it is not equally distributed everywhere. Some communities are more known for it than others - in particular, Hexbear and Lemmygrad are so bad that I just outright blocked them, personally, and lemmy.ml (edit: I don’t personally know the deal with lemmy.ml, it just seems to often get floated as the name of an instance whenever things like “witch-hunting” come up, though I am not sure if that is an admin-level deal or more like users who happen to be on it, or what - or maybe it’s just its large size that makes it inevitable to come from there? at which point you would think lemmy.world too…) I put up with it. You cannot avoid all of the nonsense, but the fact that I am able to have a proper conversation with someone sometimes already puts Lemmy LEAGUES ahead of Reddit, where that just became outright impossible, near the end (even before spez ignited the protests).
And if someone wants to put in the work to moderate a place where we can have more fair & balanced conversations, I think I would like to join it? But I am not willing to moderate it - I did that on Reddit, and I am just done with that. If we want nice things though, we need to put in the effort to build them. :-)
