In an interview with the Guardian from his home base in Burlington, Vermont, Sanders urged the Democratic president to inject more urgency into his bid for re-election. He said that unless the president was more direct in recognising the many crises faced by working-class families his Republican rival would win.
“We’ve got to see the White House move more aggressively on healthcare, on housing, on tax reform, on the high cost of prescription drugs,” Sanders said. “If we can get the president to move in that direction, he will win; if not, he’s going to lose.”
The US senator from Vermont added that he was in contact with the White House pressing that point. “We hope to make clear to the president and his team that they are not going to win this election unless they come up with a progressive agenda that speaks to the needs of the working class of this country.”
Sanders’ warning comes at a critical time in American politics. On Monday, Republicans in Iowa will gather for caucuses that mark the official start of the 2024 presidential election.
Biden faces no serious challenger in the Democratic primaries. But concern is mounting over how he would fare against Trump given a likely rematch between them in November.
Every once in awhile I catch myself thinking about how different the world would have been if Bernie was president and it’s just so fucking sad.
I get that all the other problems would still exist, but there would be a glimmer of hope to cling on to.
I voted for Bernie and he would have been great, I always find myself thinking about Gore winning more often. I have more respect for Bernie for sure but we’d have been in such a better place by 2016. Jesus, there’s a non-zero chance that the 9/11 warnings don’t get ignored and the US definitely doesn’t invade Iraq or Afghanistan. The housing bubble would probably still have burst in a bad way but I doubt it goes down the same way. Supreme Court wouldn’t be as full of neocons and zealots.
Not just that if Gore had won and 9-11 would have still happened we would have likely seen a push away from oil starting in the early 2000s. I think Gore could’ve turned that into an opportunity to say “to hell with these middle east authoritarians and their oil, we can do better for ourselves and better for the planet.”
Unfortunately I was 6 when 9-11 happened so I didn’t have much say in these matters.
Gore would have been a timeline-changer. I would vote for him now. I wonder if he’s a viable candidate at this point?
Wilson threw us onto the bad timeline.
Goddamnit, when can we get some time machines already!
If nothing else, I’m fairly sure Gore would have actually read his intelligence briefings.
Yeah, this was always my big one too. I’m a green at heart, but I learned a brutal lesson then, that I’ll carry inside of me forever. A lesson that has only gotten reinforced by the slow march of modern fascism.
Democracy requires dialogue, patience, empathy and compromise. The alternative is authoritarianism, and the unavoidable power struggles that come from too much centralized power in a world with ambitious humans. We need to remember that, and dialogue and compromise with our, in many ways younger-self progressives, instead of trying to corral them. We can do this. We are not too afraid.
Give em hell Bernie.
DNC lawyers argued that the Democratic Party doesn’t owe anyone a fair process and that it has every right to disregard its own rules or interpret its rules how it wants because it is a private organization.
Niiice
Totally getting ranked choice voting in 2028; 2026 if the midterms work out. /s
Ugh…you’re 1000% right. That timeline sounds wonderful.
Yeah I think with gore we’d’ve had a good chance of being the world leader in switching to green energy right around when hummers got popular instead.
His EO’s alone would have accomplished more in one term than any Dem since LBJ.
It’s possible we’d be in a better situation now. Lots of obvious things like not tossing out known facts about terrorism efforts and having a climate change awareness leadership. There’s much that would still be the same, like the system of consumerism that is the core of much of our problems. One person in a limited power seat can’t fix that, I’m not sure anything can outside of failure of the system itself. But I do think we would have at least avoided that one historic turning point that revved back up the military drive of the US. Even GWB’s administration was looking into ways of reducing the military into smaller, more mobile parts until suddenly we went into revenge mode. Or useful crisis mode.
Fix the whole last century and just assassinate Wilson in 1911-1912 before the damn election.
I always find myself thinking about Gore winning more often.
We might be thinking about Biden winning his second term as Nazis take over the US in the future - Get your friends to vote
I do wish he had been president, but I also wonder how much of his agenda he could have gotten past congress, even if Democrats were in charge. Most Democrats are, at best, about preserving the status quo and I hate having to vote for them just to stop the people who will make things even worse.
I voted for Bernie every chance I’ve had, but I genuinely doubt he could have achieved the current level of success much less something better.
Without a Congress full of like-minded people, it would have been a struggle. I think we can have someone like Bernie for president one day, but it’s people being passionate and engaging with every vote and every election.
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That’s a really great point and something I hadn’t really considered.
Undoubtedly they would’ve sabotaged Bernie every chance they got, just like the labour party sabotaged Corbyn in the UK. Both of those parties are glad they only had to sabotage during the elections.
Remember when debbie Wasserman shutlz stole the dnc nomination from bernie to give it to Hillary?
That one rug pull gave donnie the win.
Remember when this was challenged and the court ruled the Parties have no obligation to play fair
With an election coming up, the Schrodingers Leftist dilemma is in full force, even on Lemmy -
Where we’re simultaneously both powerful enough to be personally behind every Republican win of the past 20 years, and also so insignificant that we must be ridiculed and bullied at every turn to remind us that we have NO PLACE in their party they blame us for not backing.
The best part is that most of the time people hit both sides of the coin in the same comment.
What
Centerists, or people who voted for Biden in the primaries tell progressives and leftists we’re minority viewpoints within the Democrat party. Implying that we have no business trying to influence the direction of the party. These same centerists also blame us when their garbage candidates don’t win in the general election and tell us things like “Biden was a good compromise” or “You got pretty much everything you wanted” despite neither of those things being true.
Centerists got so comfortable winning elections on their own they forgot how to compromise and accuse anyone else trying to negotiate as “throwing a tantrum”.
I can’t decide if you’re doing that on purpose.
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i read this same exact bunch paragraphs earlier. why is it here again?
Or if Gore won
I mean, he did.
The 2000 election was decided by the Supreme Court, not the voters.
This is the most upsetting part, he fucking won, and we still have to live with the consequences of the GOP blatantly stealing the election
It wasn’t just Bernie who got the screws from Democrats. Henry Wallace got the same shaft from Democrats. On the other hand, Republicans don’t have populist fliers, they have fascists fliers who are promoted to the top.
But, But Bernie would’ve turned us into the USSR! /s
A significant portion of the US population think Biden is a communist, how would Sanders have a chance of winning enough votes?
There’s a reason Trump fought so hard to have Bernie as the democratic nominee in 2020.
a significant portion of the US population thinks trump is a fascist, how would he have a chance of winning enough votes?
there’s a reason hilary fought so hard to have trump as the republican nominee in 2016.
…
am i doing it right?
I’m not doing another conversation with you so you can ghost it when it gets to difficult to counter then report my comments.
this is poisoning the well. (a form of ad hominem)
it’s also a lie.
and what i said is true.
and here is some more truth: i don’t want you to respond to anything i ever say.
Modlogs are public.
Anyone who wants to can look at it.
Have a nice day.
i can’t seem to find my reports. can you link them?
Have a nice day.
i hope they do.
Have you seen this video yet?
Bernie’s Legacy w/ Killer Mike https://youtu.be/ZlZaVtCT5HI
Never forget the movement… Not me. Us.
He said that unless the president was more direct in recognising the many crises faced by working-class families his Republican rival would win.
No, The Guardian, you missed the whole fucking point.
The important thing Sanders said is that unless the president was more direct in recognizing the many crises faced by working-class families then our entire democracy would be destroyed.
This is an existential threat, not a goddamned motherfucking horse race, and I am sick and tired of the media supporting fascism by treating it like the latter!
The Media is owned by the fascists. Of course they support their agenda.
Do you not know what the word demagogue means?
I’m curious to see where you’re going with this, so please make your point instead of assuming your question will lead us there on its own.
The headline uses the word “demagogue” to describe Trump. “Demagogue” is defined as:
A political leader who seeks support by appealing to the desires and prejudices of ordinary people rather than by using rational argument.
I think OC is arguing that the article hints that Trump’s campaign is devoid of rational argument by using this word, which would imply that they aren’t exactly on Trump’s side. I’m not personally familiar with the Guardian’s political standpoint, though.
Given that half the accounts commenting here are incendiary puppet accounts designed to sow outrage, I’m not sure if matters if they do.
I feel isolated thinking this.
Or, they are aware of the media and they are creating talking points for people to discuss.
Unless the Trump is held accountable, He will most likely win. People’s material needs are important and Dem messaging has basically been hey we showed this graph so you’re not struggling and anything popular you want won’t happen. But everything bad will happen with the other guy. Being not Trump once again is a dangerous way to win the election. Trump’s cultist ass should be getting crushed.
Trump’s cultist ass should be getting crushed.
Makes me wonder what might have happened if the DNC hadn’t f**ked Bernie over, twice.
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I still remember trying to explain to someone back in my reddit days that many media sources played clips of people saying they are voting for Biden in the primaries because they believe Bernie would lose. The only places saying that were the same media sources.
Unfortunately, the owners of this country don’t want that.
(NSFW - language)
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OG Lemmy :)
Our unofficial forum namesake! :)
Rich people would be getting richer slower and the world would be a better place.
Maybe he would have lost his aura because he wouldn’t have had the means to do what he says should be done.
Maybe he would have lost his aura
At this point Bernie’s lost at least some of it; I can’t disagree with those who’ve accused him of sheepdogging, although I think he was trying to do the best he could with what he had.
Sanders not burning his own party cost him much of his clout. Frankly they deserved it for what they did to him and his show of weakness backing the warhawk Clinton was awful to see from someone who usually has so much fire.
Bernie’s moral code includes supporting his party’s “democratic” ways, as anything else would be a coup in its own right.
Even if I believe he’s off the mark in doing that, I admire him for it. It’s rare to see these days.
Admirable? Blind slavery to a corrupt system? I fail to see what is admirable about not trying to fix a country but instead keeping corruption alive.
What alternative would you propose? Say what you will about Sanders, but he actually wants the Republic to last, imperfect though it may be. Apparently many of his critics prefer a politician who will throw a tantrum if things don’t go his way and then try to bring down the whole nation. That reminds me of someone else.
Sanders not burning his own party cost him much of his clout.
Technically it’s not his own party since he’s an independent who caucuses with the Democrats, but otherwise I know exactly what you mean.
Well progressives are to blame for their incessant whining that any candidate that is not 100% progressive is absolute shit. Progressives are bitching about PEOPLE while corporatists are controlling the narrative about ISSUES.
Progressives are bitching about PEOPLE while corporatists are controlling the narrative about ISSUES.
Progressives have been banging the drum for universal health care (an ISSUE) for years, so far with no luck – (no) thanks to the corporatists.
And as for Israel (also an ISSUE), don’t get me started…
The whole point is that progressives are getting CRUSHED by the corporatists because the whiners can’t stop eating their own.
progressives are getting CRUSHED by the corporatists
Well yeah, because the corporatists control the purse strings.
Until progressives learn to play and win the messaging game, we’re wasting our time. But it has to start with positive messaging not negative messaging. Trumpists have that market cornered.
Again, messaging takes money, and that’s controlled by the corporate wing of the party.
Progressives are more or less wasting their time if they don’t leave the party.
It’s not a messaging issue. Boomers are intentionally voting against progressives and leftists in primaries because boomers are selfish pieces of shit who enjoy fucking over anybody younger than 65 years old.
What on earth are you talking about? Progressives and leftists didn’t lose the 2020 primaries due to infighting. Having multiple candidates running with similar perspectives is a sign of a healthy movement. I wanted Bernie but I would’ve happily supported others.
But Boomers couldn’t resist the chance to vote against progressive and leftist efforts and since Biden was the only viable procorporate trash candidate they rallied around him.
Fuck the Boomers.
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Biden really needs to understand how unpopular he is. Not that he will, but I can dream.
I really don’t want another run of Trump pardoning psychopaths and doing what he wants. But democracy is basically in the hands of Dems and they scrap by when it comes to connecting with people or even giving them a vision post beating Trump.
The only way Trump is “connecting” with people is by telling them grandiose lies and making impossible promises.
Annoyingly, a shitton of people are willing to go along with those lies without thinking about it or questioning anything.
If only the “good guys” would do what the voters they depend on to win are demanding instead of trying to court Republican votes.
That’d be the least of our problems, I think.
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Biden won’t win without progressives and youth. Pandering to the center is how you lose. Trump won bc he did not play to the center.
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Let’s say Biden wins. What will you, US citizens, do when the next Trump comes? Keep voting the lesser evil?
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>Either Biden wins or we don’t have elections anymore
do you have some proof of this?
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p2025 doesn’t say they plan on not having elections any more, and neither did trump
By progressive and youth, you mean millennials, right? Who are as old as… 40.
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I have been pre-emptively severely depressed for this.
Unfortunately the way I see it is Biden will lose for two reasons:
- Hes old af
- Inflation
Regardless of policies or how terrible the alternative is. I dont think most people are going to think much past “Things are expensive now, and oh great a super old white dude”.
Love how they can blame inflation on Joe Brandon, but they refused to blame 45 for anything for 4 years.
Different types of people. Its a shame Democrats have such an uphill battle to rally around candidates because those voters hold their leaders accountable, almost to a fault. The republican voter base is made of people who are basically in a cult, or are one issue voters.
Love how they can blame inflation on Joe Brandon, but they refused to blame 45 for anything for 4 years.
Because the Dems were not yelling that from the rooftops like they should have been, so perception is set as that it’s Biden’s fault.
Inflation started under Trump and Trump is just as old
Inflation started under Trump and Trump is just as old
That’s not the perception though.
Why is that the perception?
Hint: Corps are at record high profits as is wealth inequality.
Just pointing out the facts. If you’re falling for some perception then you are the problem because not only are you not paying attention but you have no concept of history or facts.
Unfortunately this country is filled to the brim with people that are clueless, can’t remember what happened yesterday, and are misled by media to believe whatever nonsense they are gaslighting today.
So ultimately you are right but people need to be reminded that Trump was front and center of all of this inflation instead of blaming someone that came in after the damage was already done.
With all of this said, why would anyone look at Biden and say “oh just another old white dude”, but not come to the same conclusion with Trump? They are both old white dudes. So where are you getting this from? This is YOUR perception.
The bare minimum job requirement to being a politician is getting elected. If democrats can’t nail messaging like republicans then that’s on them, not on the average voter. Inflation didn’t really ramp up until trump left office and even though his actions contributed to this ramp up, the effects weren’t felt in full force until after he left. So what happens if you run on “we’re not trump”? People think back to the trump years, and other than when covid hit (which people can excuse as not the fault of the president), the economy seemed to be doing great, and there certainly wasn’t as big of an inflation problem as now.
Also, democrats had multiple candidates running in 2020 who weren’t “another old white dude” but they asked all the candidates they could to clear the way for biden because they needed to focus their efforts to defeat their most feared enemy: Bernie Sanders.
If biden loses, a big part of why will be the single issue “genocide Joe” kids who, like their predecessors, The Bernie Bros, took their vote and went home over something that was much smaller than the potential loss of democracy.
Downvote all wish, the fact remains: had the Bernie bros not thrown a temper tantrum, there’s a good chance 2016 could have turned out differently.
Disagreeing does not make this untrue.
When do we get to blame the shit candidate who lost instead? Bernie didn’t ignore and not campaign in multiple states because he thought they were in the bag, that was Hillary. Bernie didn’t conspire with the dnc to put up the worse polling candidate because it was “their turn”, that was Hillary. Bernie supporters didn’t say “we don’t need your vote” to the progressive voters, those were Hillary supporters.
This shit makes me want to write Bernie in instead of holding my nose and voting for Biden like I did last time.
When the polls reflect the proper amount of democratic voters during the election.
You fail to realize that when people stay home and don’t vote- it shows. So we’re well aware of how many of you “democrats” stayed home in 2016.
If you’re acknowledging you need our votes in the general then made better choices in the primaries. Don’t elect procorporate trash in the primaries like Joe Biden.
Enjoy Trump. You’ve earned him.
You have too.
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Dude… voting polls shows they stayed home. Not that they voted red. They DIDN’T VOTE.
It’s proven.
And:
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Talk about shifting goalposts…. I’m not talking about Bernie bros voting for Trump, you are. I never was, yet YOU comment to me about to change the subject to what YOU wanted it to be.
I was talking about everyone staying home and not voting like the “gEnOciDe jOe” people now. are now. Like the Bernie bros- they got butthurt over something smaller than the big picture and fucked it all up for everyone.
Then, in the aftermath, they claimed innocence and pointed the finger at other factors that were irrelevant. Which is VERY similar to what you are doing.
I’m done arguing about this. It’s pointless here. Lemmy is as bad as Reddit when it comes to hive mind mentality.
Yep, the 27,000 users on Lemmy.world are gonna sway this election. No doubt. /s
>Bernie bros- they got butthurt iver something smaller than the big picture and fucked it all up for everyone.
>Then, in the aftermath, they claimed innocence and pointed the finger at other factors that were irrelevant. Which is VERY similar to what you are doing.
wrong on basically every account.
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7 Palestinians are dying every minute.
Won’t someone think of America’s democracy?
There’s a damn good chance that even more will die per minute if Trump is elected- but you can add to that his promise that he will absolutely be a dictator from day one. He’s already said he has no issue using our own military against us if necessary.
What do you think this all means exactly?
Go ahead. I’ll await your response.
One can criticize Biden, and still vote for him.
Are you having difficulty keeping up with the point of my original comment?
It’s entirely fair and necessary to criticize ANYONE for the things they do that fly in the face of human decency…
But I’m not talking about criticism. I’m talking about the people that admittedly are blatantly refusing to vote because of it- while simultaneously thinking it won’t be their fault when we wind up with a dictator in a throne.
Because they WILL be blamed for this.
It won’t be their fault. It’s their vote. It’s up to the candidate to win the vote. If they don’t win the voter’s vote; say, by aiding in a genocide, then it’s the candidate’s fault. We need to stop blaming voters because they don’t condone genocide, and start blaming candidates for abiding it.
But not everyone can. And you’re not helping those people get off the couch.
israel’s end goal is complete ethnic cleansing of Palestine. They will achieve that whether biden or trump is in office. There is no worse candidate in this particular case, because both unconditionally lick the ass of israel.
Hamas wanted permanent war, they got it. Palestinians overwhelmingly approve of Hamas and Oct 7. Although it seems absurd, it appears everyone is getting what they wanted.
You’re right, those children deserved to die!!! In fact, democrats should run on the messaging of “fuck them kids”, that’ll get voters to eagerly run out and vote for them.
You appear to have more concern for their children’s safety than 74% of Palestinians do. Hamas puts their lives in jeopardy, uses them as human shields, yet still remains popular.
Do you honestly think the Palestinians don’t care about their children? You’re just repeating israeli propaganda that dehumanizes Palestinians. Please think before spreading such fascist sentiments.
Having contempt for voters is like blaming the weather when it rains. Maybe the candidate should have came prepared with an umbrella, but here we are.
I have contempt for non-voters.
His first play will be cannabis being decriminalized.
Man I would love to see this, but its one of those things that I will believe when I see. I hope I have to eat my words on that too. Even if so, I dont think decriminalization would mean much to people in terms of getting out to vote. Most people who are really passionate about this over other issues have had the states handle it for them already. Dems waited too long for Federal Decriminalization to be a big motivator in a national election in my opinion.
Agreed. Dems like to save popular law changes to package with other utterly deplorable actions.
They also divy it up so that it’s not really a victory. “We legalized weed*!”
* For everyone over the age of 65, anybody who was born rich, if you own three patagonia jackets and people who attended an invitation only dinner with a bunch of billionaires.
Then moderates turn around and whine “Why doesn’t anyone give credit to Democrats for all the good they’ve done???”
You have made me realize the full extent of Citizens United.
Indulgences are a thing again. Just secular this time.
Too little too late.
Honestly I hope he keels over and Harris gets nominated.
The only thing people like less than Biden is Harris.
WTF has she even done?
Upvote to get you to 69.
Centrist Democrats would rather lose and have a hereditary dictatorship run by the Trump family than treat workers with respect.
Bernie is in Biden’s back pocket, he’s incredibly influential to the presidency right now. Bernie has helped Biden come up with nearly every progressive policy he’s rolled out. This statement actually will mean something.
Bernie has helped Biden come up with nearly every progressive policy he’s rolled out.
Which ones?
He played an important part in pressuring rail companies to give workers more sick time and remove the advanced notice clause, the Inflation Reduction Act, Build Back Better, the infrastructure bill, and several executive orders.
Don’t forget when the Dems caved to the GOP and only Bernie fought to get the $600/week extra for unemployment for the people…
Fuck Joe Biden for blocking the rail strike.
Because they’re just rich people. When are people going to realize they’re all just rich people. None of them will ever do anything for you. We can either eat them or die.
What do you think? Are they bitter from a life of uselessness and moral squalor or tender from never working on anything of value, soft like a baby lamb kept out of the light? I think about it sometimes at night when my tum-tum rumbles
Your comment seems detached from reality, Biden appointed people to the national labor board and they changed the rules so that when companies try to do their anti-union fuckery, unions get automatically implemented:
https://prospect.org/labor/2023-08-28-bidens-nlrb-brings-workers-rights-back/
This is why we’ve been seeing so many successful unionizations and strikes lately.
I think the operative word in his post was “centrist.” By that, I’m sure he means center to right Dems like Pelosi and Manchin.
The corporatist profit loving ones who would rather climb a ladder to tell a lie than stand on solid ground and speak truth.
https://fortune.com/2024/01/03/members-of-congress-profit-from-stocks-2023/
Neither of these people, nor the dozens of lawmakers like them, support unions in a real way. They care about money first and appearance of support to their constituents second. Pelosi keeps getting reelected because she’s the biggest money maker for the DNC.
Pelosi keeps getting elected because she’s one of the best Representatives and speakers in the US history. What a fucking muppet
Yeah she’s the best for rich people. The rest of us find her to be a procorporate piece of shit just like Joe Biden.
And minorities, and LGBT and poor people
She has a long and storied record
Pelosi has not been good for poor people or LGBT. We live in a capitalist society and the damage she’s done to the rights of everybody who works for a living far outpaces any good she has done. She’s a corrupt piece of shit.
Oh goddamn commies
You can’t cherry pick Biden’s appointments and claim worker support. Biden also appointed Janet Yellen and reappointed Jerome Powell who are both in an outright war with the working class. Fuck Joe Biden.
You’re literally cherry picking yourself
He’s right. Biden is coasting into this election. Reminds me of Hillary in 2016.
I’m sure Biden and “his team” want to win, but not at any cost. Certainly not at the cost of taxing his donors and using the money to help the working class.
How would that policy be enacted even if they did? Congress certainly will not pass it.
Of course congress wouldn’t pass anything like that. Ultimately they all play for the same team-- Capital. The “bully pulpit” and executive orders are largely reserved for things like supporting genocide, and antagonizing our geopolitical rivals.
Lemmy is largely populated by children who lack the intellectual maturity to appreciate that democracy is about compromise and that winning elections doesn’t mean that you get to do everything you want.
There’s this myth that somehow Biden can just wave a magic wand and get everything he wants, but he’s not doing it because in spite of being arguably the most powerful man on the planet, he’s secretly in the pocket of corporate America. It’s a very childish view of the world and is entirely disconnected from reality.
This is an extremely common trope from establishment Democrats who like to pretend the left is just naive children. Let me make this perfectly clear to you. Yes, we get politics. Yes, we understand that Biden can’t get everything he wants. Yes, we get that Republican obstruction is a thing.
Now, here are some things for you to try and grasp. Most of the time, Biden and the Democratic establishment is leading the opposition against the left. The establishment also plays dirty to get their unpopular candidates past the primary, then blames the left when they lose in the general.
It’s not generally the politically active left that doesn’t vote blue. Most of us are well practiced at holding our noses at the ballot box. It’s normal non-political Americans who see no point in getting engaged when neither party even speaks to their problems.
Say it louder for those in the back.
Say it loud for those in the front too.
Both parties in the US are in the pocket of corporate America to some degree (Citizens United made it legal anyways), it’s just that one party actually cares about having a functioning country with a decent living standard for people and the other will happily burn it to the ground to hurt minorities and gain short-term power. What you see is the frustration in the general US population that sees the Republicans openly ruining things while the Dems have their hands tied by the underhanded tactics Republicans use and talk about “reaching across the aisle” and compromising with the fascists. Stuff gets done, but you often don’t hear about it or openly see the effects of Elizabeth Warren taking corporations to account for their actions compared to the 1.3 anti-trans laws per day that Republicans tried to pass in the first 6 months of last year.
Says the immature child posting on Lemmy…
Yeah, and democracy isn’t perfect.
We’ve seen that from the very beginning of the US.
Ahh yes, the classic “there’s no reason to support good policies because other people do not.”
What a bunch of losers.
Even a clearly over reaching executive order that immediately gets smacked down by the courts would relieve the pressure.
Who knows what’s happening in their heads… but my guess is they think that once the ‘3rd party people’ fall back in line they will regain the lead so they don’t have to worry. And the rest is Biden being as establishment as you can get so obviously he’s not interested in any radical policy changes.
Rock on, Bernie
With an election coming up, the Schrodingers Leftist dilemma is in full force, even on Lemmy -
Where we’re simultaneously both powerful enough to be personally behind every Republican win of the past 20 years, and also so insignificant that we must be ridiculed and bullied at every turn to remind us that we have NO PLACE in their party they blame us for not backing.
The best part is that most of the time people hit both sides of the coin in the same comment.
You can look at my post history and see I’m pretty far left, but I’ll be pinching my nose and voting for Joe Brandon, the reason the GOP has built so much power over the years is because their base always pinches their nose and toe the party line. Voting for the lesser evil is still keeping less evil out of the world.
Voting for less evil is still addition of evil. Everyone parrots this “blue no matter who” shit but dems have done nothing to stop fascism or serve the needs of citizens, because they benefit from those systems and citizens going without. Voting mid right instead of far right is still voting for the right, voting Democrat doesn’t stop the march to fascism, it just delays the official kick off date by 4 years as Republicans continue to seize power unchecked from the bottom up.
I’ve always voted third party and will continue to do so cause I’m over this vote between fascism and fascism but with a rainbow pin on its cap. If Democrats wanted the votes to beat Trump, they should have run Bernie who won the primary in 2016 instead of running status quo Hillary then having a court decree that their voters are, legally, not shit to them.
I’ve said it before and I’ll keep shouting it from the rooftops - if leftists are so fucking important to Democrats maybe they should stop dedicating their lives to insulting and belittling us. 🤷
If you vote third party you have no right to cry when Trump win. You are as much responsible for it as anyone who didnt vote.
If you vote Democrat you have no right to cry when Trump win. You are responsible for voting for a party that explicitly demonizes half of their supposed base as they screech at us for not voting for them.
I don’t wanna vote for Biden, so I’m going to twiddle my thumbs while other people vote for wish.com Hitler.
“I’m so against moving away from my right wing duopoly I’m going to call the guy who’s only a few shades less right wing and has done nothing to stem the rise of fascism because his party benefits from the same mechanisms being exploited by fascists ‘oUr OnLy ChAnCe.’”
Voting for Biden doesn’t stop fascism, it delays it for 4 years as dems continue to turn a blind eye to fascists overriding every system from the bottom up until next time.
If Biden doesn’t at least say he wants to do something about housing affordability then I won’t be voting. I’ve voted blue my entire life.
It’s not the leftists. Oh the Democrats blame it on them. But we saw this in 2016 with Hillary. It’s a hurt working class that feels like they’re being ignored.
“leftists” is just what the centerists are willing to call us even if it’s not technically correct. The point is they blame us for not winning the general elections but outright vote against us in the primaries. It’s fucking pathetic.
All I know is I get called a socialist all the time and I can’t get in contact with this Soros guy for my check. Seriously though, it is pretty screwed when you can tell whose going to get the nomination by who gets the party chair positions.
Just a quick fyi here:
Kudos to the Guardian for calling Trump a demogogue. At least they say the truth when no North American news source will.
That’s just bullshit. Many North American publications have called him far worse than a demagogue. You’re saying something that “feels” right but that isn’t actually true. It’s part and parcel with how disconnected from reality so many of us have become.
Communist Trolls: The left doesn’t say enough bad shit about Trump!
Left and center news calling him a white supremacist, neo-nazi courting, racist, rapist, cheating, fat fuck, and now smelly fascist for 8 years now.
Suckers for propaganda: Uhhh… Biden supports Jews exterminating Muslims! I’m helping!!! Why didn’t all of America vote for Bernie! It was the evil Democrats! It couldn’t be that he was more popular and appealed to the sensitivities of anyone over the age of 40! Nor could Bernie court enough young voters to care to vote.
This coming from someone that has voted for him every chance I got. Which was exactly once lol. Bernie hasn’t challenged him for the nomination at all. There’s a reason why, and it isn’t because he’s cowtowed.
calling Trump a demogogue.
So this is not a “stranger things” insult
Sad to think that we coulda had Bernie as Prez.
If Americans can’t realize for themselves that Biden is the most progressive president we’ve had since Jimmy Carter then we deserve Trumps dictatorship. I’m not saying Biden is adequately progressive (he’s not), but can anyone name a more progressive president in the last 50 years?
No I can’t name a more progressive president in the last 50 years. That’s the problem.
So because he’s not “progressive enough” he should be thrown under the bus and we get Trump?
Ever wonder if this attitude is a self fulfilling prophecy? Biden is not the enemy here and should be celebrated. Corporatism is the problem and uses MSM to gaslight the working class into believing things that are not good for them. Stop tilting against the windmill.
It’s because the DNC is completely corrupt and ruin this country for a few million given by Hillary and now Biden.
I fear, that you are spouting hot garbage. You’ve been listening to too mich Russian propaganda.
Uh ok. Yeah don’t listen the the former head of the DNC in 2016.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774/
Or Biden doing the exact same thing
https://apnews.com/article/biden-2024-democrats-dnc-state-parties-ac8fba0ab1117ebf75cc16ebe0c735e4
"The president is really rewriting the playbook when it comes to what a reelection campaign looks like and how we are in deep partnership with the DNC,”
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/politics/biden-democratic-national-committee/index.html
Uh ok. Yeah don’t listen the the former head of the DNC at the time.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/02/clinton-brazile-hacks-2016-215774/
Or Biden doing the exact same thing
https://apnews.com/article/biden-2024-democrats-dnc-state-parties-ac8fba0ab1117ebf75cc16ebe0c735e4
"The president is really rewriting the playbook when it comes to what a reelection campaign looks like and how we are in deep partnership with the DNC,”
https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/24/politics/biden-democratic-national-committee/index.html
No, but it sucks that this is the best we can get.
Does it suck as bad as the worst we can get? Because current progressive messaging is guaranteeing the worst outcome, not the best.
If all we choose between is bad or worse I don’t see how things will get better.
I’m still voting Biden but I’m also planning for the collapse. Cause that’s where we’re headed no matter who wins.
In that case, I’m voting for Bernie to vote my heart and letting the chips burn where they may.
It’s pretty lame to base your vote on an anonymous Internet comment. Do better.
I’m voting for Hillary because it’s still Her turn!
Bernie says to vote for Biden but you do you
I get it and can’t really disagree. But if we want more progressive policy we have to talk with our friends and family more enthusiastically about even small steps to change the narrative. I find very few people say anything positive about Biden, even students who have been given relief for thousands of dollars! What the fuck.
Boomers will never allow it to happen as long as they’re alive. They voted against progressive and leftist efforts in the 2020 primaries with fucking glee.
Yeah, it’s exactly like that. Biden, the Democratic Party must do better, or Trump is going to steamroll this country into a hellish nightmare. Its a threat and you can clutch pearls and get trump or demand better.
Preach! Let these fools understand some true wisdom.
If you don’t need our votes to win the general election then ignore us. If you need our votes then fucking pay attention: don’t elect procorporate trash in the primaries.
Yes.
If you’re acknowledging you need our votes to get him elected in the general then guess what, it means whoever voted for him in the primaries is a selfish piece of shit. They intentionally voted against progressive and leftist efforts and now they expect our votes in the general? They can get fucked.
bringing up the idea of voting third party is not a good choice here, huh? If i did that, i would get a lot of copypasta ‘but trump’ if i did so I’ll just say this instead:
Since we all know we need a third party eventually, what do we think we could do to make that happen in the future? (After this election i mean, and trump disappears forever, melted by our vote power.)
How long would we need to wait? (Don’t want to steal votes from Democrats mind you) would they’re ever be a time where that wouldn’t happen? If we asked the DNC about timing, do you think they would help us get one started? If we tried and somehow succeeded in getting something off the ground, how might both parties feel about that attempt? Would they be for or against? If they were against, would they try to crush it? If they tried to crush it, what would they do to crush it? They probably wouldn’t use force first, so maybe they’d use words. What might they say about it?
Sadly for more than a two party race you really need a hardier representative voting system like ranked choice voting so that as parties are knocked out of the running people’s actual choices are not entirely relegated to the garbage pile.
We’re still trying to get that off the ground here in Canada where we have established parties outside of two but everyone keeps voting back and forth between liberal and conservative because of the spoiler effect.
Trudeau originally ran on a promise to bring in ranked choice voting but that was an outright lie I have been salty about for years. Not that I particularly believed him because really why would he? His party benefits from a lack of representive representation by historic bias. Still its very frustrating to actually have good parties that have been well established for decades and know that if I vote for them I might increase the risk of LGBTQIAphobia and Neoliberal economic policy running the gorram country.
Oh God the “vote blue no matter who” crowd is coming back soon this year aren’t they?
Oh they have been around the whole time for slobs like me who never touch grass but you’re absolutely right they are gonna get real real loud, huh? And they’re gonna sound just like this article too! Hear that?
That’s the sound of them sharpenin their waggin fingers
It would require massive reform to our current laws in order for there to be a viable 3rd party option. That’s what you should be working for, not throwing away your vote.
I’m the Democrat you probably are referring to. Quite frankly nothing is wrong with your interest in a third party or even having an interest in alternative voting method (Ranked Choice or Star voting) to get a more preferable candidate.
My only thing to bring up is to understand the objective as well as its difficulties. On a federal aspect ‘but Trump’ is a very real issue. Nobody should be ignorant to harm that having Republicans in the White house & 1 and/or 2 branches of congress is very dangerous & detrimental.
The enthusiasm that people have for wanting to have something better is commendable & shouldn’t be discounted. The task to win an executive office is based on electoral college not a popular vote. President Obama & Biden has soon how even that large of an office can be well checked & handcuff to a unaccommodating congress so you need to have more one office to present an alternative. That is fifty sates & with several states having various methods of how they allocate those votes. A third party & Independent candidate run that hasn’t spent at least multiple years & decades should really owe potential voters a serious analysis than supposed moral platitudes(There are real harms for Republicans winning). They need concrete real & achievable measurable goals & strategies so their voters can gauge their success a long the way so voters could make rational choices come time for the general election. Democrats & Republicans benefit from a long history of being established players(or the only ones), it can seem unfair but don’t be discouraged.
First, read up on your state statues & laws on what it takes to form or be a recognized political party. Then check out some of those recognized especially ones you believe align closest to you. Make sure you aren’t reinventing the wheel. You might find out the those parties have platforms you for the most part agree with. Check out those parties state rules & bylaws on how they are governed or operate. If their is possibility to get involved that might be an easier option. There is something meritorious in a state having their own voice or say in a different candidate even if they aren’t the presidential pick. Just see how Bernie Sanders’s status is viewed as a Independent who caucuses with Democrats. Even as Democrats we got to keep an almost free pickup with Joe Manchin in MAGA country West Virginia & also John Tester in Montana. Distinctions can be made while existing under the umbrella.
There are lots of other avenues to explore that doesn’t have to be a national campaign or even a state-wide one. Apathetic voters that don’t or rarely do as well as plenty of disgruntled two party members exist to provide a strong base for third parties. Nobody would be upset with third parties increasing the voter pool & providing them with a voice better aligned to their views or interest.
Don’t discount the importance of city, county, and state legislators importance in everyone’s life. Some states don’t prevent minimum wage increases passed at the city level & one insane aspect of RW SCOTUS is municipalities can enact environmental laws they are trying to strip from the federal government. Cities give “incentive” deals to businesses and I’ve seen them get involved in housing schemes. There are possibilities for improvement. Just Imagine taking that kind of victory separate from Dems or Repubs to the national stage. Also, how much better an individual would feel being involved in that kind of improvement.
(The only challenge would be that both parties at state & federal election filing may challenge petitions to be recognized and later to field candidates with challenges. Easily addressed by CHECKING your state laws. Some states like Florida & Tennessee the party can field their own candidates so check the laws. Be prepared and really try to work on a process to get candidates to support the issues & actions condoned by the group recruiting them. After building a good strong base its really just working on the party’s appeal & protect their image from attacks by the Big Two. Establish an ethics committee or other aspect to help guard against accusations. Be accountability & trust in the party but not naive. Not being so paralyzed you have to be afraid but vigilant enough to challenge entryist that are only there to sabotage.)
Good questions. As with most things in society, true change has to start small. So you have to start by changing the messaging. With greater organization and messaging you start local and build a foundation. It drives me nuts that we have these conversations every 4 years about the presidency and then everybody goes back to their lives for another 4 years. Meanwhile the corporate machine is continuing their messaging that “government bad, worker’s rights/unions bad, minimum wage bad, welfare bad, education bad, stock market good”. What do you expect?
Yeah. If i use myself as a barometer of what regular people are capable of, i simply don’t have the time n money n energy to start my own campaign or put time and money into a smaller political entity, to try and build them up for the next, out even the next next presidency.
I mean, were talking realism it would be a small party that won at the local level first yeah? Or so I’ve been told.
So we’re talking decades. I have thought idly about how something like that could even happen over that time, and the only realistic starting point i can’t think of is a pipe dream on its own, UBI.
I cannot think of another way the common man could compete with all that corpo monkey
I get it. Maybe we can all just start by changing the conversation and focus on the positive things Biden has done and encourage more of the same. The narrative is only focusing on the negatives and that will affect polling and voting.
The narrative is only focusing on the negatives and that will affect polling and voting.
Good. Biden losing the general election is the only way the fucking pieces of shit who voted for him in the primaries will get the fucking message. Stop voting for procorporate trash in the primaries. We won’t show up for them in the general.
Fuck this “people deserve the asshole their neighbors voted for” bullshit.
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Feelings about Trump aside: Biden? Progressive? What are you smoking?
Having zero policy changes during your time in the office is progressive now, huh? I’m pretty sure many would consider Obama more progressive due to the fact that he campaigned for like universal healthcare at some point when president. Hell even trump gave us multiple stimulus checks lol /s
lol. Did I say Biden was a progressive OR did I say he was MORE progressive than any president in the last 50 years?
I’m smoking rational thought, shared by others. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/13/why-progressives-winning-inside-democratic-party/
Biden’s party is more progressive, but Biden is not. Note how he is on par with popularity polls with the guy who attempted to lynch our political representation. Obama was easily more progressive.
Edit: migrating my response to a deleted comment so others can read it. The deleted comment below accused me of not reading the article. This was my response.
Sure did. It’s an embarrassing op-ed. Short and flimsy arguments. Every link is either something that someone else did (mostly state legislators) or about lip service rather than action. About the only thing Biden can claim credit for is related to the economy, where his policy has helped transfer wealth upward. If “progressive” means “keeping things perfectly as they are” then you can go ahead and be a progressive.
Removed by mod
Sure did. It’s an embarrassing op-ed. Short and flimsy arguments. Every link is either something that someone else did (mostly state legislators) or about lip service rather than action. About the only thing Biden can claim credit for is related to the economy, where his policy has helped transfer wealth upward. If “progressive” means “keeping things perfectly as they are” then you can go ahead and be a progressive.
Write your own oped in wash po then hotshot lol.
🎯
Call for a ceasefire Bernie.
“I strongly support and wish and hope that the United States will support the United Nations resolution that was vetoed, that we vetoed the other day,” Sanders said. “That was a humanitarian pause, humanitarian cease-fire, that would have by the way called for the release of all of the hostages held by Hamas, and would have allowed the U.N. and other agencies to begin to supply the enormous amount of humanitarian aid to the Palestinian people.”
However, he added, “in terms of a permanent cease-fire, I don’t know how you can have a permanent cease-fire when Hamas, who has said before October 7th and after October 7th that they want to destroy Israel ― they want a permanent war. I don’t know how you have a permanent cease-fire with an attitude like that.”
Weak shit tbh
Better than nothing, but it was a pause regardless of him trying to spin it as a ceasefire.
The rare W for Senator Sanders right there and now he is backpedaling so his base will still buy his books in the future.
Sanders is stuck in the bygone era of Labour Zionism and doesn’t seem to realize that his statement about Hamas applies to modern Israel too - you can’t have a permanent cease-fire with a settler-colonial entity, who has made it very clear that they want to annex the territory.
It is strange that the the American radical left abandoned Labour Zionism after the USSR conducted the trials like the Doctors’ plot & decided selling weapons to Arabs to kill Jews was the way to go. Solidarity is quickly dispensed with when principles are weak. Maybe Sanders error is the same as people supporting Houthis now?
The American radical left grew an anti-colonial character alongside the rise of Black Nationalism and the American Indian Movement, the breakup was inevitable because Labour Zionists were trying to build socialism in an apartheid colorismo ethnostate on stolen land 🤷♀️
Without any international left holding them back, Revisionist Zionism conquered Israel and now they’re just openly fascist genocidal freaks. Sanders still thinks there’s a rational Zionist entity to negotiate with, but that ship sailed a long time ago.
Yeah Biden lost me when he outlawed the rail strike (please dont link me to electrical union statement). Frankly its just been downhill from there anyway.
Don’t link you evidence that the unions themselves thanked Biden for his help and they got what they wanted without striking?
he outlawed a rail strike and you want to link me a statement from an electrical union that opposed the strike from the beginning and always had sick days. And then I point out how not everyone got any sick days from this, the ones who did didnt get what they would have gotten from a strike, and outlawing strikes poisons any future union bargaining. Im tired of fuckin democrats coming in here to tell me how it was a good thing that the unions didnt get to collective bargain, they dont need any influence on labor because employers and the government have their best interests in mind.
Most of us rank and file union members think that he did what he had to do because inflation was already out of control and shutting down the railroads risked tipping the country into recession which would’ve guaranteed a “red wave” election in '22 as well as the reelection of Trump, both of which would be far more dire for working people.
Local 10 till I die!
damn man union members not even believing in collective bargaining. Yeah, it would have had consequences, that’s why it works. And it historically improves the economy, with increased pay for workers able to spend more into the economy.
“Leftist”/Dum-Dum left yet again being the most anti-labor aspects of the Democrat party despite waving union issues around, sadly. They are so fickle and searching for some wild thing to justify quitting & trying to hand the GOP a win at a moments notice. They won’t put the work into listening to great workers like yourself & what it takes to get the job done.
You’re the one celebrating a president for blocking a strike.
The are reasons for strikes and goals behind them. The strike isn’t the thing they are after its a tactic for getting the deals labor wants. You have to follow the whole labor negogation and negogations didn’t end because the strike was. The only hiccup was sick days and many of thd unions got that in the end.
You are looking for something superfical to be angry about.
Call it whatever you want. I’m not voting for Biden again.
One rich IBEW pencil pusher doesn’t represent every rail worker. You know how we determine the will of that many people? Through voting and they voted against the contract Biden shoved down their throats.
Biden was great until late 2022. That is also around the time a neolib became his chief of staff.
I wonder how much Biden policy is like Reagan policy, just a bunch of young corpo ghouls handing documents to a vaguely pleasant rheumy-eyed old man to sign off on.
Edit: autocorrect
It’s hard not to compare their administrations and I wonder if Biden looks back fondly to those days.
Many DC Dems liked Reagan personally because he was nice to them. At least according to my college polysci lecturer who was in the Senate.
To be fair, attention span is short. Anything the administration does too early before the election will be completely forgotten by November.
This is the problem, Biden is a historically pro-union president and people don’t seem to recognize it. His appointments to the national labor board are responsible for the resurgence of unions were seeing.
Actions speak louder than words, Jack.
Here’s a summary of the many actions Biden has taken that you appear ignorant of, from the IBEW:
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
And you seem to be blind to notion that he’s likely going cause our side to lose. We need someone livelier and more in touch than his orange opponent.
I’m fully aware of what Biden’s stated “accomplishments” are. Just like Obama, he hasn’t done enough. And now, he’s propping up state sponsored genocide. So, no thanks unless I have no other choice.
You do have other choices, however they either aren’t viable or they are worse.
You mean not paying child support for your children of extra-martial affairs & never paying taxes makes you a bad candidate now? Next you are going to tell me abusing & harassing your campaign staff is a bad thing.
Rare sane voice in the mass of users that shift with the whims of the GOP.
True!
Can’t pass up an opportunity to blame progressives and leftists can you? It’s not that Joe Biden is a procorporate piece of shit. No no, it’s those young 40 year old kids with their tiktoks that are the problem.
Get real Boomer. Biden was a terrible candidate and anyone who voted for him in the 2020 primaries is a selfish piece of shit.
Didn’t single out anyone. Attention spans are low across the spectrum.
I didn’t vote for him in the 2020 primary. I’m all for election reform to move away from FPTP and the lesser-evil voting strategy it necessitates. But as it stands, voting is FPTP in this election, so I’m definitely going to vote for the proto-corporatist over the fascist, and I’m going to encourage actions that make the fascist staying out of power more likely.
Single out the selfish piece of shit boomers who voted for Joe Biden in the primaries.
Whatever you say bud. You can complain, or play the hand you’re dealt. Can’t do much about it not. If you disagree with what happened, get out ahead of primaries next time and promote the candidates you like. If more people vote for another candidate, that’s just democracy.
Buddy, if you didn’t vote for Biden in the primaries who did you vote for? And why aren’t you willing to acknowledge there was no good reason to vote for Biden in the primaries?
I voted for Bernie, but alas he did not win the primary. More people voted for Biden, so he did. That’s the hand we are dealt.
I’m only saying there’s no benefit to complaining about it now. Biden is shitty, but Trump is shittier. So it goes.
So are you willing to call out the people who voted for Biden in the 2020 primaries for the selfish pieces of shit they are?
Call me stupid, cuz I don’t know. But why isn’t anyone challenging Biden in the media? Or even talking about Marianne Williamson’s (who I thought was a challenger) bid for the Democrat ticket?
How do we not have people lining up to replace Biden on the left?
Without the support of the DNC they know all they can do is weaken biden.
Media is a scary thing. Progressive ideas are so popular rn, and yet centrist and corporate donors still control everything. This election cycle has been such a slow boil and everyone seems to be tapped out already
Trump has both parties strangled and nobody is willing to make inroads for third parties or ending FPTP. Voters are abused spouses that aren’t willing to fuck off to the shelter or streets because it will suck.
Biden’s procorporate bullshit is what’s strangling the chances of a Democrat victory. He fucked the BBB, negotiated down on student loan forgiveness, argued with us about how much stimulus money he campaigned on, blocked the rail strike, signed off on Yellen and Powell’s war on the working class, gave a handout to corporate America with the chips act and continues to support Israel against wishes of the voters he depends on.
If Biden loses it’s because Biden is a piece of shit.
Because it would be a good way to ensure a Trump victory. I hate that it’s come to this, but unfortunately it’s the reality.
Marianne is the one who had letter drafted from her staff to take her race more serious & focus on getting on more ballots than Iowa & New Hampshire. Huh, I wonder why nobody is taking her serious.
