Encouraging Jews to leave “voluntarily” was Hitler’s first step, too. Then when most people don’t want to leave their homes, you justify your escalation by saying you gave them a chance.
Yeah and back then it was Zionists who collaborated with him to populate Palestine with 60,000 German Jews.
It’s annoying making the comparison derails the conversation so much. Yeah, sure, one of the ethnicities involved happens to be repeating and that sucks, but that’s the one genocide people know stuff about.
Edit: Lol, didn’t expect this to get downvoted. Why?
I think the downvotes are from people with poor reading comprehension. Like the guy who thought you were laughing about genocide.
Maybe, but communication is a two-way street. If everyone is having trouble reading my stuff I need to make it simpler.
Genocide is funny to you?
What!? Where did I say that??
I was complaining that you can’t compare the Holocaust to the current situation in Israel-Palestine at all, even when they do the exact same stuff, or a lot of people freak out.
People should freak out. If Israel succeeds in eradicating Palestine that will by definition be a holocaust. When you do the exact same things, you get compared.
BRUH. Read the comment you replied to again. He’s saying the comparison is what people freak out about. He agrees with you.
And that we shouldn’t make the comparison because of that. Maybe you should read my comment again.
OP again. No, I think we should.
I’m annoyed people stop listening if you do.
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Saying the quiet part out loud again. Forced relocation through either terror or expatriation is Ethnic Cleansing. Ethnic Cleansing may fall under the Genocide Convention.
WTF?
We are there.
I will vote for Joe Biden if he publicly condemns Israel. From his lips. In an address to the nation.
I will not if he doesn’t.
Simple as that.
It’s a two party system. You vote Biden or get Trump. Trump has less problem with ethnic cleansing. If fact Trump is the kind that might try it in the US.
He already has plans for it, and using the military to do it. He has made it clear he plans to go full fascist right from day one if he were to win again. It’s his only way to not spend the rest of his life in prison (and he loves the idea of being a dictator).
I think if he tries that, the US breaks down as there is no way everyone will go with it.
Trump winning is a win for the enemies of the US and a win for the enemies of the wider free world.
Edit: Add a few words for clarity.
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That’s true but Biden winning accomplishes the same. No this isn’t a both sides argument, it’s understanding that many outside nations have invested in dividing our nation politically. The only win would be a 3rd party win and that won’t happen in my lifetime.
That is a both sides argument. Trump is a new level of bad. If you want to have any chance of a future with a better political system, you want to keep Trump out. If you don’t vote Biden, you can’t complain if you get Trump.
Trump is only a “new level of bad” to liberals that weren’t paying attention before.
Do you promise?
I wasn’t planning on voting for trump, but when you put it that way…
OK ok, I’ve edited to be more explicit. Though I’m sure everyone knew the interpretation I meant…
So Biden is allowed to do whatever he wants, we are obligated to vote for him, as long as he’s just a tiny bit less bad than trump would be?
Logically, yes, unless you come up with another option that realistically results in a better outcome. Nobody’s asking you to be happy about the shitty state of affairs.
That’s why the system has to change. Trump will change the system, but not the way you want at all.
You’re allowed to pretend that you won’t get Trump if you don’t vote for Biden. It’s bullshit but noone can stop you being delusional
What’s the point of living if I have to vote for genocide?
You think Trump is less pro-genocide? Until you can change the system, you end up choosing who you think is less genocidy.
Edit: spelling
You misunderstand.
If my only choices are to vote for “genocide” and “more genocide”, why shouldn’t I cast a 9mm ballot into the roof of my mouth?
No, it is you don’t understand. You have a “Trolley problem”. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
You don’t have the options you want to have. I’m sorry, but you don’t. We have to deal with the world as it is to have any chance to make it as we want it.
If I throw myself under the trolley wheels I might derail it. Happened in Tunisia.
So you’re saying in order to participate in the US electoral system you must make yourself responsible for some level of genocide? Contrary to lesser evil voters, you’re not responsible for other peoples votes, but you are responsible for yours. The fact that about 4 gerrymandered states determine the election is not my fault and doesn’t necessitate my participation in condoning any more genocide than I legally have to when I pay taxes.
What does that achieve?
Well it’d have to be suitably public, but a suicide of a street vendor helped kick off the Arab Spring. Mohamed Bouazizi achieved a lot.
Besides that, if every vote I cast is a vote for genocide, then don’t I deserve to die? Have you listened to the interviews? Have you seen the bodies in the rubble? I’d rather kill myself than support that, and if everything I do supports genocide then I should kill myself. I deserve it.
Trump isn’t winning the Republican primary.
Be certainly be good of Republicans come back from the edge. If the players are more balanced, the system can start to be adjusted to get away from being just Red vs Blue.
Ya, Independent, Green, Libertarian, Constitution.
Those parties don’t exist.
The genocidal fascist whose boots you’re licking told you so.
Well good luck with that. I hope you guys don’t vote in Trump again, for all our sake.
Well, good luck with that.
I hope your rhetoric doesn’t perpetuate the cycle of America lesser eviling it to Ultra Mega Hitler as POTUS.
Edit: To clarify, Trump is currently strangled by litigation diet coke button and removing a bike rack harmless loudmouth capable not Hitler with 60 percent of a country ready to fight him status.
Biden however has made the Democrat base support genocide.
Idiotic reason to vote for Trump who is far worse toward Palestine.
Then the democratic party should make the most basic effort to condemn genocide. I wont vote for the support of genocide. It’s really not a high bar. It’s frankly pathetic that you are suggesting we have accept that. That makes you explicitly in support of the ethnic cleansing of gaza and the people of Palestine. You are evil.
Plenty of them are. But you’re willing to toss them all out with a figurehead. The AICP is currently campaigning against several Democrats for calling out the genocide .Yeah Biden’s out of touch and a bit problematic. But this is the height of self-defeating virtue signaling. Not that it has stopped a lot of you in the past. San timoniously and hypocritically criticizing everyone else while doing nothing to make the situation actually better. Soothing your own conscience with trying to convince yourself that you’re meaningless gesture was worth it.
Biden is what we are saddled with and it could be far worse. You need to take care of business this election cycle and the moment it’s over start pushing better people for 2028 or sooner.
What if I hate America? Who should I vote for? 🤔
That’s what people said last election. We always have to push them to be better the next election. Always settle for worse. What a shit electoral system the US has. And the hilarious part is that unless that person you’re talking to lives in a swing state their vote probably doesn’t matter anyway.
Very nice, you have made genocide into nothing more than virtue signaling. You are gross, your arguments are gross and it is your continued support to the establish us political system and parties that gave us trump to begin with.
Keep on virtue, signaling. And whatever you do don’t do anything that might actually help.
It’s very telling that you can’t address any of the points I made. Acting offended is all you’ve got.
You are offensive.
I’m evil? Strong language for someone suggesting Trump is a worse alternative than Biden.
You are evil and acting in bad faith. It’s hard to imagine how you think wanting a president who will condemn genocide means supporting trump. You don’t, you want to continue the dishonest dialog that the only discourse is we must accept the democratic party as is or else. What it is a threat and acting in bad faith.
In the US no vote is a republican vote. I know you don’t like to hear it but its the way it is. The fewer people that vote the higher their chances go up.
Then the democratic party should make the most minimal effort to win by standing against genocide.
No offense, but I really hope you are young and that’s the reason you are this naive. The next president is going to be either a democrat or a republican. Denying that reality so you can feel better about yourself is doing the people of Gaza no favors. You have no power of the situation and especially if you are in a swing state, the only thing you can do to help them is to keep the republicans out of the white house.
I actually understand your thought process, I used to be the same way. I wish third parties were viable too and I wish we had better options, but right now, the best chance you personally can give Gaza is voting Democrat.
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Stop doing that you insufferable pea-brained dolt.
Not voting for Biden doesn’t mean I’m voting for Trump.
Idiots like you sit there like your vote is a party popper you MUST use to show if your streamers and confetti are blue or red.
I am disgusted with the options I am presented with. I get no streamers or confetti…
Unless Biden condemns the Israeli genocide of Palestine and champions imposing massive embargoes on Israel while fully ceasing any funding in full.
Then I might believe he (and the DNC) are humbling WAY the fuck up, listening to their constituents, and correcting course is the SMALLEST of ways.
I vote for anyone but Biden, or even a no vote, is a vote for Trump.
If you think Palestine is in bad shape under Biden, try to imagine how much worse it’d be with Trump.
The only way to get Democrat candidates on the left is to crush the right wing so that the Overton window moves.
You are the uncle Tom piece of shit that has lead this country here.
I do not vote for Biden. I do not vote for Trump.
You can’t make me.
Your rhetoric is outdated, idiotic, and counter-productive.
One of those two will be president no matter what you do. They will then be in a position capable of inflicting great damage. Trump will use that position to hurt more people than Biden. The math here isn’t complicated, and it continually astounds me how many people on the left cannot actually solve the trolly problem when faced with it for real. It really shows which people are engaged in politics as a means to an end rather than as personal expression or a hobby.
Dont. Support. Genocidal. Fascists.
Nobody is going to make you vote one way or another, but please recognize the following:
The United States is currently a two party system. It sucks. We need to push for more ranked choice voting, as well as direct popular vote.
However, until we’re able to achieve something that makes this parties viable, we will continue to have issues with the right wing getting undue influence in our politics.
Vote with your heart, but make sure that you’re okay with another Trump presidency of you decide not to vote for Biden.
Keep in mind as you do so that more than one state had enough votes for Jill Stein that if they had gone to Hillary, Trump never would have become president.
We should have viable parties outside of the two not great to horrible parties we have now. But that’s simply not the way our government works as it stands now.
Last thing: you’ve become a single issue voter. This is the lefty equivalent of only caring about abortion and ignoring literally everything else. Politics is complicated, and I personally find single issue voters incredibly shortsighted and lazy.
Considering… considering… nope, wont support genocide.
You’re an insolent child that thinks not voting somehow makes a statement when all you really do is join a huge bloc of voters who sit on their hands while everyone else decides for you all so you can act superior when the shittier option winds up on office and say ‘I didn’t vote for them’.
You’re a petulant, insolent child. Grow the fuck up and start living in reality.
I vote for anyone but Biden, or even a no vote, is a vote for Trump.
First they think of not voting. That’s one vote for Trump.
Then they decide to vote for Trump. That’s two votes for Trump!
By this logic, every dollar you don’t donate to Biden is a dollar donated to Trump.
I ask you, if there is one party that tries you stop you from voting in any way they can, doesn’t you not voting play into their hand?
Just stop supporting genocide; this isn’t hard.
Refusing to vote for Evil, any Evil, is a pretty straightforward moral position to take.
Meanwhile your voting choice requires complex mental gymnastics to justify, which is quite an indication that you’re trying to come up with excuses for yourself for doing what you do not feel is the morally right thing to do.
I don’t think any presidential candidate would do that, even if that’s how they really felt. It’d be political suicide.
You don’t think any candidate would condemn genocide. Condemning genocide as a US presidential candidate is suicide…
Isn’t that how fucked America is in a nutshell.
I don’t believe you would at all tbh.
Just another concern troll pretend you give a fuck.
You think having a Republican president is going to improve the situation?
If I were in Nazi Germany and my choices were Hitler, a genocidal maniac or Himmler, a genocidal maniac, I would not vote for a genocidal maniac.
The primary genocide requirement is intent. Instead of throwing “maybes” around, you should spend a minute or two to read the convention in full instead of polluting the discourse.
Especially now that the intent is clearly stated by a government official.
“We won’t do genocide, but what about 90% genocide?”
95% tops!
Is it really genocide if there’s at least a few left?
Of course it is. There are still Armenians, German Jewish people, Rwandan Tutsis, Rohingya, and no one disputes that they were genocided.
We’re all being ironic, I think. In reality, if your goal is to make an ethnic group smaller so you don’t have to deal with them as much, that’s genocide, or at least ethnic cleansing. No specific number is required.
Also, FYI, Jews across continental Europe had a bad time. Anywhere the Nazis went genocide followed, so you don’t really need to specify German.
Ethnic cleansing is the forceable displacement of ethnic-group populations. Deliberately killing members of an ethnic group (or otherwise trying to destroy that group) is genocide, but unfortunately nations and news outlets are shy about using that word, so the overlap has led to confusion of the two terms.
FYI
Thanks, point worth making. My list wasn’t meant to be exhaustive. Jewish people had a bad time in that continent long before Nazis as well. Hell even some of the early Crusaders went and committed genocide against Jewish towns in the Rhineland Massacres of the 11th century.
I was just cherry-picking a few obvious genocides to illustrate my point, in case the person above was being serious.
I know it’s dark humor, and I kind of hate myself for even thinking this. But now I’m seeing a far side style comic with a group of soldiers standing around, arguing over not wanting to kill the last Palestinian, because that’s what makes it genocide.
Sometimes my sense of humour seems lost on some people. Maybe because I was raised on Far Side.
Yes, but then the countries of the world need to brutally stomp out the aggressor of the genocide, and need to forcibly give the victims of the genocide the plot of land they claim as their original home.
Okay hear me out, what if, after you make sure each person isn’t hamas, you tattoo their arm, and…
Yes and maybe make it trackable, like a number or a barcode, just to make sure
I believe IBM could help with this.
Maybe it could be a yellow-colored religious symbol, worn as a mandatory patch by Palestinians on a highly visible place on their clothes.
So he wants to kill 90% of the populace in a geographical region.
How does anyone deny this is genocide?
I think their goal is to displace 90% into Egypt and kill the rest. Still genocide.
Where was it stated that the goal was to kill 90% of the population?
It is not possible to move 1.8 million people out of a region like Gaza without mass death. This is not some secret information that Israel doesn’t know. The state of Israel has demonstrated at every possible opportunity that at best it does not care and at worst that’s the goal.
It is not possible to move 1.8 million people out of a region like Gaza without mass death.
Ok, but that still doesn’t justify the specific claim that the guy in question here wants to kill 90% of the population.
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No shit. I read a portion of the transcribed interview where the finance minister was talking about this and what he was advocating was mass emigration. That’s also super shitty, but it’s not at all the same as murdering millions of people.
Forcibly deporting people is genocide
especially when it is not possible for them to emigrate. Forcing Gazans to emigrate to Egypt, when you are neither Gazans nor Egyptians is ridiculous at best. Next will be the Israeli governments saying “we took care of them for this long, now it is domeone else’s turn.”
So you’re saying the Trail of Tears was perfectly fine and not seen as Genocide? I think you’re wrong and a blind fool
You tell me. Did I say that it was perfectly fine?
It is essentially the same, it would result in the deaths of thousands. Even the Nazis tried to relocate Jewish people and realized it wasn’t feasible. The people advocating for relocation know this.
The “deaths of thousands” is the same as “murdering millions of people”? Seems like you’re addressing something other than what I said.
“What we do not understand is that while there were protests against Germany’s defensive action in this field, there was, on the other hand, no willingness to absorb the excess Jewish population emigrating from Germany.”
• Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of propaganda.
Yet again,
But remember, not a genocide.
What the fuck. Fucking sickos.
The US is really fucked up on this. I mean Israel is a tactical ally, but how do you turn a blind eye to genocide?
If by turn a blind eye you mean supply vast majority of the weapons used to commit the genocide then sure.
The US hasn’t turned a blind eye to it. The US has been exerting pressure for lessened combat operations since the getgo.
Foreign policy is not about morality, it is about power.
There are 3 main powers in that region. Saudi Arabia, Iran and Israel. Right now the US has a lot of influence over both (power). If the US were to just drop Israel, then all of a sudden the US has no more power in the region.
The Israelis do not need us for weapons. Not only do they have their own military industrial complex, there are other 1st world powers who would happily sell arms to Israel for a chance to become the new most powerful influence in the region due to having Iran and Israel under their thumbs.
I swear, Americans are fucking stupid when it comes to how anything works and they have zero desire to learn. It’s no wonder that the US ends up with people like trump.
If you continue to provide funding and weapons to an ongoing genocide, you are 100% complicit. What you are suggesting is that the ends justify the means.
Yeah, we totally reined in their terror by giving them everything they wanted. Biden thinks if he is nice enough they will return in kind. He tends to use the same tactic when negotiating with Republicans 🤦♂️
What the fuck are you even talking about? Your comment makes no sense at all.
You talk about how foreign policy is about power and influence - I am saying Biden doesn’t understand how influence works as evidence by him not using his power to influence Israeli policy even though it is leading to a more volatile middle east and lower approval ratings at home. In other words, he is undermining his own influence. But go on and tell us how we’re children for expecting more.
What power do you think he has? You do realize that the Israelis do not need to rely on us for military aid, correct? You also do realize that there are a couple other world powers who are not allied with the US who would be very happy to cozy up to Israel which means that they would have much more power and influence in the Middle East because at that point it would be Israel and Iran.
I think you must be at least somewhat naive about just how right wing and authoritarian the Israeli government is.
If the US has no influence over Israel in regards to this conflict than that sounds like a critical policy failure and a huge geopolitical risk.
Edit: I’m curious what potential Israel allies you speak of that are not aligned with the US? Our own allies are distancing themselves from this clusterfuck.
Say it with me. Foreign policy is about POWER, not morality. It is about power, influence, and power coupons.
Jesus, it’s like talking to literal children.
If you don’t see how Israel is undermining America’s soft power then idk what to say.
Having influence over something doesn’t mean that you control it. The US has exerted heavy influence to attempt to curb the worst of the Israeli impulses (full scale ground operations being one of the successful ones). But that does not mean that the US controls Israel.
Israel is hell bent on repeating every mistake that the US made post 9/11. The latest is the equivalent of the “mission accomplished” banner.
The next mistake(if they make it) is going to be expanding the scope of what they intend to do.
The argument is that we’re not using our strongest influence by virtue of not threatening to withhold arms (even though it would be in US interest to do so to preserve influence in the region). I am not arguing that the US controls Israel like some vassal state.
Those arms you are talking about have already been appropriated by Congress, UNTIL 2028!!!
But I’m guessing that you didn’t know that because it’s a lot easier to sit on social media and wax eloquent about how foreign policy should mirror morality.
Even if we could stop the arms shit, it wouldn’t matter. Israel has it’s own military industrial complex and there are several other countries that would happily trade with Israel to give the US influence over the region a black eye.
Do you understand? Israel does not NEED our stuff. Sure it helps, but you seem to be under the delusion that if we didn’t supply weapons they wouldn’t have any. That is woefully naive and incorrect.
“But why do we give it???”
To which I repeat: Foreign policy is about power and power coupons, not morality. This is the way it is, not the way it should be. Kissinger was a soulless ghoul, but he understood exactly what foreign policy is all about (which is the main reason why most of us hated him with a fiery passion). Nixon should have ensured that he took a long stroll on the deck of a submerged submarine, but alas, missed opportunities.
Maybe one day foreign policy will resemble morality, but that day will not come for a very, very, long time. If ever.
You don’t come off as an intellectual powerhouse buddy
I’m not your buddy, pal.
The power to do what? If it’s not the power to force morally good behaviour then it’s all pointless.
The United States seeks to maintain influence in the Middle East for several reasons, including geopolitical stability, economic interests, and regional security. The region is vital for global energy resources, and stability in the Middle East is crucial to prevent potential threats such as terrorism and the spread of extremism. Additionally, the U.S. maintains alliances with several countries in the region to promote shared interests and counterbalance regional powers.
It looks like Zionists were taking notes during the Holocaust
“What we do not understand is that while there were protests against Germany’s defensive action in this field, there was, on the other hand, no willingness to absorb the excess Jewish population emigrating from Germany.”
• Joseph Goebbels, Nazi Minister of propaganda.
This idiot doesn’t know when to shut up. This war started when Israel had the worst and most extremist government it’s ever had, there were many protests about it in the first half of 2023. That minister in particular is possibly the craziest of them, and easily the one least able to co-ordinate his statements with the rest of the government. It’s both a PR disaster for Israel and plain misleading information - this is not a policy that Israel has.
Unless I’m mistaken, he’s even been banned from cabinet meetings because of this kind of shit. So please, take everything he says with a mountain of salt.
Disclaimer: I’m Israeli. I know Israel is not handling this war remotely well, but it’s also not guilty of the extreme accusations the internet blames it for.
P.S. mods, if you decide to ban me (as another community did) then at least have the courtesy of informing the rest of the userbase about it, and ideally leave my comment intact. If you just delete and ban every comment that doesn’t uphold a specific viewpoint, you’re just making an echo chamber, and the whole community becomes more extremist by the day.
Disclaimer: I’m Israeli. I know Israel is not handling this war remotely well, but it’s also not guilty of the extreme accusations the internet blames it for.
It is guilty of genocide, and this is not an internet accusation.
this is not a policy that Israel has.
Yes, it does. It has been stated numerous time, the plan is another Nakba.
To be honest I would argue the sentiment that this approach isn’t what most Israeli civilians envisioned for some years now, but seeing as how all actions taken by both IDF and Israeli government, I seriously doubt this guy is alone in his fascist thoughts when he bursts out these inhumane sentiments.
I would advise against defending these genocidal state apparatus, nor mixing the views of civilian population of Israel with these bloodthirsty colonialist monsters.
Israeli people are innocent in this conflict, as are Palestinian people. However, Palestinian people are too poor and oppressed from all sides to make a conscious decision to root out Hamas, so the part of responsibility that falls on them is hard to accomplish. Israeli people, on the other hand, still have enough faculties, although at the brink of destruction by the fear-mongering campaign of Bibi the Genocider, to carry out their part of the responsibility in forming peaceful living by dismantling their current terrorist and fascist government (at the elections at worst).
What I advise is don’t try push the blame under a rug by making scapegoats out of a few people while letting the rest ruin the last semblance of your democracy.
It wasn’t my intention to make him a scapegoat, I’m only accusing him of the statements that he made, nothing else. Any actual actions that the government and military make can’t fall on just his shoulders.
What everyone globally seems to forget, or maybe never even heard about, is that Israel has tried multiple times in the past to make peace with a Palestinian state, with generous offers of land (generous when you consider that it was under no obligation to offer them, and it’s a state not a person so ethics don’t apply in quite the same way). Right from the get-go, it’s the Palestinians who always refused these peace offerings, ever since with the UN decision to establish the state of Israel which was largely supported by the western world.
Even in the past few years before the October 7th attacks, Israel has gradually increased the number of work permits for Gaza citizens to work in Israel.. Israel has been trying slowly to gain any sort of trust and be humanitarian, but time and time again this trust is betrayed and progress is reversed.
I will say that I don’t think any of this justifies the number of casualties in Gaza. It doesn’t make sense to me, and I don’t think it’s acceptable that destruction of this extent is Israel’s course of action. But I also can’t agree with claims of genocide or ethnic cleansing, especially not as a long-term policy of Israel. It doesn’t add up.
Yeah, he should have kept a lid on it like everyone else at the Wannsee Conference.
Thanks. This kind of reality check is very necessary.
I’d honestly love to know more about what it’s like to be an Israeli right now. I’m adamantly pro cease-fire and have always been pro “let people keep their homes” and anti-apartheid, but never anti-Israeli citizen or Palestinian citizen to be fair. In the US we talk a lot about our government being colonizers and how the founding fathers shouldn’t be praised and we try to find ways to honor stolen land, albeit, it feels performative since I certainly can’t just give up my home if someone’s ancestor came back and asked for it. Anyways not to try to point too many fingers, but hopefully just offer a glimpse of my own moral dilemmas that feel impossible, I’m just wondering what the perspective is for you all? Is the segregation discussed? Is the foundation of Israel controversial among Israelis at all?
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I wonder if he literally meant 100, not 100,000.
Well, it’s always nice when Israeli ministers by their own public words provide evidence of culpability for the case against Israel that just started in the International Court of Justice.
All of them there just to do menial labor for Israelis that move in and elsewhere. Just enough for housekeepers and their families.
It’s time to dismantle the Israeli state.
