How about Lemmy.World?
The admins stated on Mastodon that they’re not going to defederate until something happens. Knowing Meta they shouldn’t give them the chance.
Here’s the link: https://mastodon.world/@mwadmin/110654590632768079
Thats unfortunate. I’ll be moving instances then. Giving Meta a chance is a lot like giving a mosquito a chance to not suck your blood.
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Same, I was only donating $2 a month but I’m not alone in finding this completely unacceptable. I applied at lemmy.ml. It’s the scorpion and the frog with these people suggesting we should just wait and see.
“~Let’s see if Zuck doesn’t act like an anti-competitive asshole this time” <–where the hell is the logic in that?!
Ikr? When being a competitive asshole is the core of your being, the windows should be closed before something even has a chance to happen.
How does one change instances?
You don’t. Go to a different instance and sign up. Then stopping using this account.
Thank you!
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Currently, there is no way, though a migration of a user profile from one instance to another is planned as a feature, but not currently being worked on.
Its like that story of the frog helping the scorpion cross the river.
This behavior is why the fediverse alienate users and makes it hostile for new people to join.
They didn’t do anything, yet. Give them the chance but start with 2 strikes on their account already. They fuck up, THEN you defederate. Innocent until proven otherwise.
Edit: go on, downvote me. Show me your face. Show me how you’re all against growth on Lemmy and niceness to each other.
Innocent until proven otherwise.
There are many years of proof already about facebook/meta acting very maliciously, actively breaking laws and being fined for it, is that not proof enough? How many more do you need before you can say they’re not innocent at all?
Innocent until proven otherwise.
Corporations like Meta have shown time and time again that they cannot be trusted to play nice with anyone else. Have we already forgotten about Cambridge Analytica or the plethora of other scandals they’ve been at the center of? The proof has been in plain view for a while now.
They don’t get more data because they’re federated. They literally the exact same amount of data as they do know just by scraping mastodon or Lemmy. They’re an even player in this market. Somehow you all keep forgetting that. If you don’t want meta do have data from activity pub, you being here already violates that ideal.
Okay, but that doesn’t address any of the points I brought up.
You said to give Meta a chance. The rest of us are broadly gesturing at all the shit they’ve done in the past, and how we want as little to do with that as possible.
There is nothing they can do to fuck up your experience, ESPECIALLY on Lemmy though. Threads is a completely different concept from Lemmy and activity pub is well defined.
The only thing they could do is just not moderate threads and therefore putting spam in everyone’s feeds. That’s about it. I don’t think they’re leaving that unmoderated.
Innocent until proven otherwise is a concept for criminal court.
We aren’t putting someone in jail, we are looking at their past business practices and deciding not to do business with them based on their obvious habits.
If you disagree with me, we’ll then you’re just against niceness, admit you are! Admit you’re against niceness!
troll
How do you move? I signed up through .world but don’t want a chance of touching the poo (meta).
You just make a new account with another instance. You get about the same content as before.
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“until something happens”
I suppose Metas history of actively being a bad actor working against societies best interests and enabling hate groups doesn’t qualify as ‘something’…
yeah that this point meta just existing is bad
Oh, looks like I’m switching instances.
And done. I love federation.
Same here, partner. Moved yesterday.
This is great. Then all the people complaining that lemmy.world is “too big” can now be appeased with others leaving lemmy.world. Glad to see the community solve each other’s problems organically! :)
How do you do that? I’m subscribed to like 50 conmunities. Would I have to start all over? That doesn’t sound like it’s worth it.
Just gonna name-drop the tool I made to do this :) https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim
It’s only been out a few days, let me know if you have any issues!
Thanks. I liked .world but no way will I let meta in.
Thanks for making this!
Awesome! I was hoping this would be possible. I plan to host my own instance hobbit.world and would need to migrate everything.
Also, I’ll defederate any corporate instances. No need to encourage bad actors.
If you’re creating an instance that will not federate with corporate instances, then I would love to join.
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Thanks for this! Just gave this a try, downloaded from .world just fine, but uploading to .ml gives this error: ERROR: Failed Login - HTTP status client error (403 Forbidden) for url (https://lemmy.ml/api/v3/user/login)
That usually means wrong username/password! But if you’re sure, I can make an account on lemmy.ml and give it a shot.
Thanks for the feedback. The username and password are indeed correct. I copied and pasted from Bitwarden and used the exact same ones to login to the lemmy.ml site. I do wonder if there is some sort of anti-bot measures that Colonel Sanders mentioned below.
Also: I tried just my username vs email but neither worked and I also don’t have MFA enabled yet. Super weird.
EDIT: opened an issue on Github: https://github.com/CMahaff/lasim/issues/4
I’m not very tech savvy when it comes to this, but would it have anything to do with the anti-bot stuff that lemmy.ml has implemented in the sign-up process? You now have to answer a few questions and basically write your reason for making an account before it lets you even submit the request for review.
Legend
Thanks for this!
Honestly it isn’t. Nothing about the Fediverse is private or inherently secure in that way. Everything is public. And you should assume that everything you publish through activity pub could eventually be looked at by anyone. If you want private or secure messaging there are non-activity pub open source secure alternate. In fact signing up for Lemmy there’s even a field to enter for one. Whether or not a server federates with meta. Meta is still going to data mine the ever-loving shit out of all of them. The point is. None of us are at Meta’s wim about being flooded with their toxic content.
Honestly I want to see meta flooded with our content. So much anti-threads anti Meta sentiment. Actual leftists. And not just make believe right-wing liberals who’ve been conditioned to think that they are left. It would be hilarious to watch Meta try to play wack-a-mole sanitizing everything. To please their reptilian corporate overlords. And if you don’t care and just don’t want to see it. You can always block them personally. Why let them data mine in peace. I say we make them work for it.
I’m not real sure how much the Threads Algorithm is going to pass through Mastodon content (and even less sure if it will even be able to pass through Lemmy content). I think the much more valuable aspect is you can pitch your Threads friends that they can move to the Fediverse and actually get to choose what content they see rather than which influencers paid Meta to fill up your feed.
Agreed about influencers. Meta wouldn’t be doing this at all if they didn’t have a plan (or multiple plans) to monetize it. The whole reason I left Reddit and plan to leave Twitter was that I very much dislike having any part of my online enjoyment at the mercy of the whims of gigantic corporate assholes that think they are far more important than they are. Meta has been an awful and abusive actor in the tech world, why would any freedom-loving person want anything to do with them in a freedom-loving space?! Why would anyone just wait and see what they do this time to decide they’re an awful company with only their profits in mind and no qualms about making those profits at a cost to its users?!
I’ve seen a rationale that makes sense for why they’re making Threads implement ActivityPub. https://lemmy.world/post/1105955
Oh they are going to fight it either way no doubt. But why make it easy on them I say. And you’re right. If we have access to their content and can provide actual linear feeds like people want with no toxic algorithms. It’s win-win for us and still mostly a loss for them. Even if we defiederate with them they’re still going to data mine we just cut ourself off from reaching those people preemptively.
It’s not really about privacy, though. It’s about the risk of Meta going “Embrace, extend, extinguish” on the fediverse, and the only way to protect against that is by not letting them interact with the majority of it from the get-go. https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
People keep saying that. Like it’s something that actually happens. And let’s be clear, it has happened with a number of commercial products. But Microsoft and others have never managed to EEE email, HTTP/HTTPS, Usenet, Linux, Java even. And they’ve tried haaaaaaaaaard. Google didn’t EEE XMPP either. It still exists. I use it daily. The author is misrepresenting what happened.
What happened is that too many people felt obligated to work with corporation that had little interest in working with them. Rather than to focus on their own system and continue to update or develop it. Neglecting their core user base, chasing after people who didn’t seek it out and didn’t care what they were using so long as it worked. They wasted time and effort. But Google didn’t actually kill anything. And all the people using Google talk typically weren’t interested about XMPP in the first place and never would be.
It goes beyond that even. Lemmy is developed by socialists. And not just the more reasonable bunch of socialists like myself. But straight up militant leninists. They’re part of the core development team if not the whole thing. And they have no interest in catering to or coddling misbehaving corporations. They are going to do what they want and what they feel they need to do when they need to do it. And if meta or anyone else tries to screw it up. They’re not going to pay one single bit of attention to them and just keep on doing what they’ve been doing
I would add to this that its not just the fediverse, anything you put on the internet should be assumed to be public and non-deletable. Even with GDPR and everything, if the host deletes everything there could dtill be backups, archives, or some random person, corporation, or government could backup everything. Use secure services like signal for things you want to be private and just assume everything else could be public forever.
100%
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There is a python script floating around that will sync your communities, etc. I’d link but don’t have it handy.
I don’t code.
Here is the script. It’s already written, you just need to run it:
Alternatively, there is a browser bookmark that kinda does the same thing: https://feddit.de/post/808717
you can find all sorts of things to customize lemmy over at !plugins@sh.itjust.works or https://sh.itjust.works/c/plugins (shameless plug)
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using an URL instead of its name, which doesn’t work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !plugins@sh.itjust.works
How do I run it? Do I go to Command or Run, or do I paste the URL?
I got like 150, that wouldn’t stop me. Plus you can use curl to export the list of the instances you’re subscribed to on your account.
I don’t understand.
I don’t do coding or dark web stuff so I don’t know all the lingo.
There are some tools in the plugins section on sh.itjust.works: !plugins@sh.itjust.works.
https://lemmy.world/post/1171660
This is a tool with a GUI that does profile migration. You can use it in Windows and Linux. It migrates almost everything, including subscribed communities.
💀
Yep.
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People think I’m exaggerating when I say Meta is evil, but this is one of the stories that jumps to mind. Awful company.
Oh damn guess I will migrate to lemmy.ml and use that until I find out if lemmy.world defederates or not. (Edit turns out it is run by tankies and they are federated with lemmygrad.) While I may or may not stay on lemmy.world depending on if we federate with meta or not. I will no longer suggest Lemmy.ml.
I’m not in a hurry to migrate, as Threads doesn’t support federation yet, but is not a bad idea to keep an eye on other instances.
Is mastodon.world the same as lemmy.world?
The admin is the same person, so is expected that they apply the same policy for both instances.
Is there a list of who’s blocking or not?
Yes, at https://fedipact.online/
Bloody hell, I literally just switched to Lemmy.world, do I really need to switch to Lemmy.ml? Come on guys
I switched to lemm.ee
They’re still federated with exploding-heads and rammy.site so they didn’t make my short list
What a shame guess I’ll stick to my alt over at lemm.ee for the time being
Tolerance paradox applies here too
until something happens
What exact behaviors are they looking for that would cause them to push the block button?
Threads can do very well for themselves without the fediverse as they are already demonstrating. What real motive do they have to join the fediverse except to shut it down?
You can read the lemmy.world admin response here
Thank you and the other admins for the thoughtful and transparent answer.
We would like to express our disappointment with the negative and threatening tone of some of these discussions
Considering that a great percentage of the Fediverse userbase are ex-users of Reddit and Twitter that left due to CEO actions, I get that they (including me) don’t trust Meta or want anything to do with them. I agree that discussion should be civil nonetheless.
Be a lot cooler if they did.
I want to be on an instance that defederates, I will move if world does not do it.
The discussion is still on-going.
What is there to discuss?
Fair enough!
Is there any reason that they wouldn’t?
You can read the lemmy.world admin response here
You can read the lemmy.world admin response here
This is not particularly surprising. Lemmy was started as an anti-corporate project by leftists after /r/chapotraphouse got quarantined and later banned (subreddit for the most popular podcast and most donated patreon at the time), with the explicit goal of preventing corporate control from being able to silence leftists when they’re blasting off. CTH was skyrocketing in subscribers at the time it was quarantined on August 8th 2019, and when even quarantining didn’t stop its growth or slow down its activity afterwards Reddit pulled the plug under the excuse it promoted violence, but the only particularly edgy thing ever said there was “slave owners should be killed” and support for John Brown. This evolved post-ban into the assessment that Spez banned it because he wants to own slaves.
When that happened there was a massive shift in the leftist parts of reddit as we very quickly realised we’d be targeted if reddit ever deemed us to be too successful, and projects like Lemmy began in reaction. CTH’s community in fact moved to Lemmy 3 years ago, and resides on Hexbear.net but has not yet joined the rest of federated lemmy due to technical issues (it used to be a fork with a different front end).
Given lemmy’s specific anti-corporate origins seeing Lemmy.ml do this should surprise nobody. It’s the correct move anyway.
Always love to hear the deep lore. Lemmy’s early development makes a lot more sense now. Good on them(you) to leave everything open and learn from Reddit’s mistakes.
Still, free and open has a limit. No Facebook and no Nazis. That’s just common sense everyone used to have.
The paradox of tolerance is real, and a particularly thorny issue for social networks.
Philosophies that promote intolerance can not be tolerated by tolerant communities.
What happens is the definition of nazi changes to incorporate anyone who disagrees with you.
I have this theory that people who complain about everyone being called nazis, have themselves been called a nazi.
Why do people call you a nazi, hmm?
That’s literally never happened, so I can’t answer. I’m basically a Marxist, though I’m not especially attached to that as an identity.
Maybe don’t parrot nazi talking points then
I’m also a vegetarian, does that make me Hitler? Temper your hysteria.
I’ve made you aware that claiming the word “nazi” doesn’t mean anything anymore is a thing nazis do.
Do with that what you will.
Any form of ultranationalist is a nazi. Any questions?
No, but you sound like Jeff Tiedrich 😂
So you admit that Antifa are as Nazis like Maga are? Or are rightoids worse for some arbitrary reason again?
What a pointless question though. Obviously in the context ‘Nazi’ means what it means NOW.
‘Peadophiles should be locked up’ ‘ah but what if the definition of Peadophile changes to incorporate anyone who has sex??’
When I asked that I ended up with more than -100 and comments like “oh so you defend them”.
“I like waffles.”
“Oh, so you hate pancakes!”
Yes, in fact I’m calling for the centrally-organised, systematic eradication of pancakes from the breakfast menu. That’s what I mean when I say I like waffles.
The fact that you people can’t see how distasteful it is to compare the fucking Nazis to breakfast foods in a cute way, says everything anyone needs to know about you.
Comparing mere assholes to Nazis is antisemitic, much less comparing anyone who disagrees with you to Nazis.
You’re young, you’ll weather with time. We’re all just trying to get along.
Isn’t “sneed” mostly a 4chan joke these days? Seeing it in someone’s username always makes me squint
No idea, I don’t use 4chan. It can produce funny content, but I don’t think I could stand to wade through the shit. It’s a legacy username, it’s mine and I cherish it.
Yes, it didn’t take long for somebody to accuse me of being a literal nazi. Those are odd people, though. Don’t tend to meet them in the real world, only on the internet.
An actual “called it” moment.
Not leftists, Stalinists; The sort of people who end up killing all the other leftists any chance they think they might be close to taking power.
Wasn’t that the time Spez got caught editing comments from users?
Lemmy.world needs to follow
Fantastic news! Can we please do the same on lemmy.world? Please?
It would be even greater if lemmy.world does it ;)
lemmy.world and everyone should as well
Looking forward to Lemmy.world pushing the block button when it comes to it…
They wont. You need to swap instances now that lemmy.world bent the knee to meta.
You’re linking your own post about assuming what the admins in .world have done as if it’s definitive proof. After a definitive statement is made one way or the other, then you can start freaking out. Until then, just stop it with the conspiratorial garbage.
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I find your hyperbolic outrage over nothing “distasteful” and “disrespectful”. Go to another instance if you feel so strongly instead of trying to rile up some sort of revolt against the admins as if that would accomplish anything.
I’m just replacing the ok part of my deleted comment, but nothing more than the part about facebook supporting genocide. Facebook/meta encourages genocide by allowing posts to stay active and other things. That’s a big part of why anti meta guys are so serious.
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You are a citizen of a western nation. You are complicit in a wide assortment of genocides. I’m literally accusing you of genocide. This isn’t hyperbolic in the slightest.
LW admins: "Watching Like A hawk, with our fingers on the block button.”
You: OmG fUKKiN kNeeLeRs!
This is hilariously transparent and bad faith on your part.
There is no indication that they never will de-federate from Meta.
All they have said is rather than shutting the stable before the horse bolts, they are actually waiting for the horse to get in the stable first and then address if the door needs closing.
There really is no need to either defederate from meta, or make that decision right now anyway
Have a read in that link and you can see some conversation about it. Meta is a known evil, waiting for more proof is unneeded when you can just look into their history. There are links in that link. It’s just a cover to slide +1 step towards allowing meta to control what we talk about.
The best argument I heard to defederate and have noting to do with Meta is this; this is the company that had/has a platform where hate, disinformation and lies have created a divide in society, several older generations were ‘socially engineered’ to start to think differently, more absolute and right wing. In short, Meta has a platform known for causing division amongst countrymen and families.
Pre-emptive nuking is what is needed, followed by some DDT thrown over it for good measure. This needs to stop. This is not a technical decision, this is a social one in order to try and save us from that shitshow FB/Zuck/Meta gave us.
“Okay then, that was always allowed”
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Hard agree.
I don’t really think federating with them is doomsday, tbh (though I go back and forth on this one), but that doesn’t affect my primary reason for my nope. Threads consolidates everything I hate about corporate social media–and for that matter, all social media–without a single part I actually liked and made dealing with the other parts worth it. This is not a twitter clone; it’s like someone asked chatGPT to create a social media network based on twitter for other chatGPT bots to talk to each other. For fuck’s sake, it doesn’t think its users should control what they see on their own feed.
I am perfectly willing–even eager–to perform melodramatically about things that annoy me in public for fun and when I’m bored and applaud others doing the same; it’s fun times for all and possibly my favorite thing ever. This is not that.
Threads makes my skin crawl on concept. This is not ‘they do not align with our values’ because come on, Fediverse contains a multitude of values and invents more and i bet if asked, everyone here would list off a different set of values they believe encompass Fediverse and now I’m tempted to see because it would be hilarious. But we can’t even get that far; Threads has no values. This would be a marriage of convenience to a real doll fueled by Facebook’s algorithms and sponsored by Wal-Mart; whether or not it’s a danger to Fediverse shouldn’t even have come up because the first question that should be on anyone’s minds is ‘wait, this is actually a serious question?’ and have been answered ‘lol of course it’s a joke, I just forgot to add the /s’.
I’m still waiting for that /s.
It’s not about Zuckerberg, it’s about the userbase. With something that grew to 30 million users literally overnight, it’s impossible to determine what it will be like, and how it will mesh with the existing fediverse content/users.
With something this scale, it only makes sense to secure and observe - pre-emptively block, watch the content, maybe even poll the users on what should be done. There is nothing to be lost this way, it’s only a cautious approach towards a potential later link.
What could be lost is the Threads community overwhelms the lemmy community before there is a chance to react (it is 1000x bigger, after all). It makes sense to be cautious, here.
This isn’t inconveniencing anyone, any user can make an account on Threads as well and use both right now.
Ideologically, de-federating an instance just because you don’t like the guy running it would be a bad thing, but Facebook/Meta has been just so toxic to the internet as a whole it’s hard to really find fault with it.
Look, Mark has royally screwed up Facebook. Any respect or honor with the guy has long been lost. Why even give him a second chance when it’s obvious he’s going to do the same thing with Threads?
His Metaverse failed. His Facebook/Meta thing failed.
He is a huge red alert to be involved or close to the very things we’re trying to recover and escape to from things he has contaminated. Why chance associating with him?
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(Apparently) Unpopular Opinion: I think defederating Threads is the wrong move, because it just locks people into Threads. If people on Twitter had the ability to move to Mastodon AND still interact with all the people they did before, I think we would have seen even more people move. The only reason I still check twitter at all is because I have a few close friends who didn’t move. Meta is likely going to have big adoption of people who aren’t ready to go to Mastodon, but are interested in getting out of the dumpster-on-fire that twitter seems to continue to be. But blocking those people from being able to join the more popular Lemmy instances, given no actual policy violations, just will keep people in Meta that otherwise could leave. With the “however” being: It’s not quite clear to me that Threads users will be interacting with Lemmy as much Mastodon, if Threads were a Reddit replacement, it’s more directly connected.
I’m actually shocked by the growth of threads, I underestimated how much people don’t care about their digital privacy.
You are using a social network on some random dude’s server.
That is very true, but I have a little more trust in this random dude’s server where he gets access to what? He sees my IP address? Than a corp that collects an unnecessary amount of user info for the sole purpose of keeping you locked into their apps with little disregard for health. While also pimping your info out to any persons with $2 to their name.
Any random person is at least a hundred times more ethical than mark Zuckerberg.
You overestimate the ethics of random human beings.
Atleast zuck is beholden to pretend to be ethical.
tbf, that’s every social network isn’t it?
Yeah I wouldn’t take on hosting a public instance, especially in EU, as it comes with all sorts of legal shite
Those are existing Instagram accounts.
What they don’t know will hurt them, sadly.
Which is why we should federate. People have the choice to use a low availability “private” server hosted by amateurs on lemmy or use something secure and distributed that works 100%.
A little warning: the site owners on lemmy could be doing many malicious things. The simplest is the ability to drop trackers in the sites header section. However they could have dns based trackers that are invisible to end users. And thats just tracking so far. The only reason we know facebook is a slime bag is years and years of leaks.
