“We recognize that, in the next four years, our decision may cause us to have an even more difficult time. But we believe that this will give us a chance to recalibrate, and the Democrats will have to consider whether they want our votes or not.”
That’s gotta be one of the strangest reasonings I’ve heard in a while.
We hope that shooting ourselves in the foot today will allow us to run faster in the years to come…
Expecting either US political party to drop its support for Israel is a fool’s game.
Seriously these fucking morons are going to assist the guy who wants a “complete and total ban on Muslim entering our country…” because they don’t like Biden’s support for Israel? I understand this is a no win situation but given the choice who’s going to be better for Muslims domestically or abroad? Clearly the dem. And on that point I wonder if they think trump would have behaved any differently toward Israel? Spoiler alert.
They have a point though, neither d nor r is going to be “good” for Muslims or Palestinians, our track record sorta proves that out.
Seriously these fucking morons are going to assist the guy who wants a “complete and total ban on Muslim entering our country…” because they don’t like Biden’s support for Israel?
Maybe they figure that when Trump was supporting his Muslim ban, they had one major party on their side.
Instead of zero parties on their side and one party gloating that they have no choice.
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Wanting someone to stand up for you isn’t moronic.
What’s moronic is voting in such a way that elects the party FURTHEST from your ideal.
If the party needs their votes, it should act like it needs their votes.
They certainly know how to act like they need Republican votes.
Interesting. Now we have to stop people from punching themselves in the face? I tell you, you can’t fix stupid.
I tell you, you can’t fix stupid.
Then give up and lose. You’ll get to blame a minority for your problems, just like republicans.
I see this kind of thinking often, with regards to young voters, black voters, blue collar workers, immigrants, women, etc.
‘We’ve checked with the experts and determined that they should be grateful! Why won’t they adjust their lived experience to match our policy platform!!’
It doesn’t matter whether you agree with them. They’re leveraging power. You are free to disregard them if you think your personal narratives are enough to keep you comfort after Trump wins.
If Biden and his supporters want to win, they need to stop arguing with their voters and start listening. It’s not that complicated.
I’ll be comfortable if Trump wins. I’m a cis white male who makes over $200k per year. Hell, I’ll probably get a fucking tax cut.
These idiots are going to be among the first and worst to get hurt.
I’ll vote to try to stop them from hurting themselves but there’s only so much I can do.
Democrats feel entitled to votes from their base are are offended at the idea they might have to earn their vote. They blackmail us with Republicans and victim blame when their bad electoral strategy fails them
This isn’t unique to Democrats, it’s a feature of the left in general. Democrats aren’t bending over backwards to get progressive votes, but progressives aren’t bending over backwards to get moderate votes either. If a Democrat loses, moderates blame Progressives for not showing up. If a progressive loses, progressives blame moderates and the establishment.
I mean how many progressives criticize Bernie’s electoral strategy instead of blaming the DNC? Bernie completely wrote off Florida and Cuban Americans instead of trying to win them over. He aimed for 40% of the vote in the primaries. And he relied on non voters to win.
Democrats and progressives BOTH prefer to bicker with each other and make no efforts to court each other’s base. They’d rather blame each other than critique their electoral strategy. And when fascists rise to power because of this bickering, both will blame each other again.
Bernie completely wrote off Florida and Cuban Americans instead of trying to win them over.
And just like that, candidates are expected to win votes.
This implies their voters are speaking in a unified voice. They’re not. Subsets are, closer to it, but overall, politics is about compromise and consensus.
If you want the power of dominion, go for a monarchy, and if you don’t want to compromise at all, go to war. When it comes time for peace again, it’ll be some manner of compromise.
This implies their voters are speaking in a unified voice. They’re not. Subsets are, closer to it, but overall, politics is about compromise and consensus.
“We decided you’re expendable. We still expect your solidarity.”
Because in bizarro world a ban is worse than ethnic cleansing.
Ban + more ethnic cleansing > no ban + less ethnic cleansing
It’s utterly disingenuous to suggest the two are mutually exclusive. The ethnic cleaning only intensifies under Trump, and the ban is in addition to that. Unless we’re in a bizarre world where Trump suddenly loves brown people and Palestinians.
Speculating while ignoring genocide. BlueMAGA is toxic as fuck
Gee I wonder why you guys have practically no meaningful political presence in reality. Maybe if you tell me more about how much I love genocide, I’ll see the purity in your idealistic views and decide to support your cause instead.
Of course, I could fire back that you want dead Palestinian babies since you refuse to go against the most deadly option – but that would be as utterly disingenuous as writing off all Biden supporters as genocide supporters.
Biden allowing their death is the most deadly option. Do you people even hear yourself? I couldn’t give a fuck if you support us or not, which is preferred since liberals tend to co-opt movements and try to redirect the energy to neoliberalism.
Personally I think a Republican actively killing them would be the most deadly option. I’m curious though why you think Biden would result in more Palestinian deaths than any Republican candidate.
The funniest thing about this comment is that it could be easily directed at you as well.
I tried asking that question on a post somewhere around here and they pretty much responded like I was the biggest moron who had to be spoken down to.
Then again not like the “very shoot ourselves in the foot, but just little bit, instead of lot” on decades long repeat leads to anything good.
If ones vote is to be taken for granted, you have no power. Only way you can hold your own side accountable is by threatening to withhold the vote.
That is bargaining. Voting Democrat nomatter what and after that asking could they please do something, that is begging. Begging rarely works as well as bargaining.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Joys of two party system.
Most likely people just get apathy and instead of flipping to Trump, they simply stay home. Which is the other bargain. What you offer for me to bother to go from my home to the voting station in the first place.
That is their play “you can’t take us for granted anymore, we care about our vote and bargaining power on long term enough to suffer on short term to buy long term relevance”.
Whether it works is different matter. I don’t know, if democratic leadership has the where with all to take their left flank of voters as anything but given serval supporters to be kept in line with “but we are only little bit bad, those guys are really really bad”.
I can’t wait till we find out in a few months how Russian & Iranian money was actually fueling this.
1000% guaranteed. They’ve done it before and their doing it again.
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The guy running against Biden has far worse policies with regard to Muslims. If that guy wins it “proves” America wants the worse policies, potentially causing Democrats to switch to those policies to try to win.
Luckily, this is a publicity stunt that I don’t foresee changing any actual votes.
If Biden’s stance on Israel is driving away voters, that’s just normal. This is one of those important polarizing issues, and he can’t avoid accountability, for good or bad. The death count and coverage has guaranteed that.
As for “America wants” language, that doesn’t mean anything. Different people have different goals.
for “America wants” language, that doesn’t mean anything. Different people have different goals.
Sure, it’s shorthand, but the idea is that the Democratic Party might nominate a presidential candidate who has harsher views about Muslims and Palestine, if they see those views being the reason they lost, or among the reasons they lost.
They would see that they had the “better” policies and still didn’t get the votes from the people who care most passionately about them, so their approach did not work. Maybe they go closer to the protesters view to try to get their votes, or maybe they give up on the protesters as a voting bloc since they couldn’t even get their vote when they had the “better” policies. That would entail going further away from the protesters views.
Either could happen, I don’t know the polling, but my point is that it isn’t just “we will take 4 years of Trump to make our point and make Democrats listen,” they may be taking 4 years of Trump and then proving that no one should align their policy views with theirs going forward because it hurts more than it helps.
Who are Zionists actually voting for? If it’s not the Democratic party, then why would he continue to be pro-Israel? Whom is he pandering to with that stance?
There are many reasons politicians might be pro war. The military industrial complex is too powerful, among other things.
Rationally, you have a valid point.
But I can totally understand people who can’t bring themselves to vote for someone actively supporting a genocide. Something that Trump didn’t do during his tenure in office.
Lesser of two evils only works when the distinction is clear to everyone.
Biden needs to separate himself from Israeli genocidal politics, and it seems his cabinet is trying to shift.
So in conclusion, you might consider this a publicity stunt. And maybe it is. But recent elections have shown that you can’t ignore your base, you need to fire them up to really turn them out.
So this is definitely a good move.
But I can totally understand people who can’t bring themselves to vote for someone actively supporting a genocide. Something that Trump didn’t do during his tenure in office.
Trump provided military assistance, approved arms sales, and personally vetoed a bill to end US military assistance to the Saudis in Yemen which is considered a genocide as well.
And his Israel “peace plan” was literally just giving the Israelis everything they wanted so if you’re giving him credit for Israel/Palestine actions you’re literally just giving him credit for not being the president when this happened. He absolutely would have been worse for Palestinians, he just didn’t have the power at the time.
Then they stay home to vote “neither of the above” or in more active form cast ballot voting for “Mickley mouse” aka foiled ballot.
But I can totally understand people who can’t bring themselves to vote for someone actively supporting a genocide. Something that Trump didn’t do during his tenure in office.
Trump was trying to oppress them personally. Maybe sympathy for those suffering a genocide is more important to them than their own safety, but maybe it shouldn’t be.
Also, do you really think Trump wouldn’t support Israel killing every last Palestinian they could?
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The Muslim ban was only oppressing foreign Muslims trying to enter the USA.
It did not directly oppress US citizens who were Muslim
Oh, so just the families of those citizens. Gotcha. I’m sure Trump won’t do worse next time.
Also, that isn’t all he did. He wanted a national registry of Muslim-Americans, for example.
Please, explain to me how doing that wouldn’t be oppressing them.
…and the American base never fails to show its sheer, utter stupidity.
Good thing there’s someone else running in the primary that’s polling 10 times higher than that guy.
Who would that be?
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-d/2024/national/
I guess she’s got double the votes, not 10 times, but it’s funny you haven’t heard of Marianne Williamson.
I don’t think those graphs say what you think they do. Unless you haven’t noticed that blue line way at the top.
Obviously the incumbent is polling at 80%+, I’m just saying that Phillips is even less likely to challenge Biden than Williamson, so there’s really no point in saying he’s even worse than Biden.
I’ve heard of Williamson. Those charts say she’s polling in the single digits and is only ahead of some dude named Phillips that I’ve never heard of.
Not sure where you’re getting your 10x or even 2x numbers.
OP didn’t mean some rando that no one’s ever heard of. “The guy running against Biden” meant the only other person with any chance of being president in 2025
I find it funny that people trot her out as if she’s some solution here. Will you be telling gay men who loathe her for minimizing AIDS to suck it up and vote for her?
They must want to completely lose Democracy because they aren’t getting their way. That’s what’s in the ballot. There very likely won’t BE 2028 election if Rump gets back in.
If democracy isn’t working for them, why would they vote for it? Remember, they just voted with Republicans to censure Rashida Tlaib over nothing too, and then there’s all the other stuff like student loans, the child tax credit, gaslighting people about how well the economy is going, etc.
Generally voting for democrats on the federal level just means halting or slowing down the inevitable ratchet towards fashism, not actually improving things, because there always a Lieberman or a Manchin ready to sink anything that would be too lefty.
If democracy isn’t working for them, why would they vote for it?
Because it can get worse. This seems obvious.
Of course it can and will. But just like Weimar Germany, the centrist parties (or in this case, the only non-fascist party) are too busy with their heads up their asses (or scare mongering about socialism) instead of solving people’s issues. Why would they support the party that will punish the few representatives they have any time they stand up for Muslim issues?
BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVE IS WORSE.
This also seems PAINFULLY obvious.
The alternative in this case being “treating people like you need their votes.”
The party would rather have Trump than the nightmare scenario of acting like their voters are worth anything.
Look, I can’t keep people from hurting themselves. I will call them morons leading up to and afterwards though.
Same as I did for dipshits in red states losing maternity wards now. /shrug
You’d rather blame people for a loss than try to win.
Both options keep getting worse and continuing to paly a rigged game isn’t worth it. The Republicans might just cheat and win and all.the.Biden capitulation will have been for nothing
You show me the policies the Democrats have that comes even close to this- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
I mean I don’t like the Democrats, but my god… Trump and his people want a one-party state with him as dictator for life and one of his kids succeeding him.
The capitulation would have been for stopping that.
Don’t worry. There will be no shortage of people clutching their pearls and smugly saying they stood up for their ideals by not voting for Democrats, as they ride to concentration camps.
Generally voting for democrats on the federal level just means halting or slowing down the inevitable ratchet towards fashism
Is it an inevitable turn towards fascism, or is it people refusing to vote against fascism because Democrats don’t “inspire” them?
You can either keep shaming non-voters, or democrats could maybe do something for them once in a while that’s not a corporate giveaway disguised as policy.
If a progressive is running against a fascist, and a moderate chooses not to vote because they think both options are “too extreme”, does that mean the progressive candidate inevitably leads to fascism?
I’ll happily keep shaming non voters, because their logic makes no fucking sense and I hate such blithe idiocy. I’m no Democrat spokesperson nor party official. If a random person being mean to them online is enough for them to refuse to vote against bigotry, I couldn’t care less about their opinion.
If a progressive is running against a fascist, and a moderate chooses not to vote because they think both options are “too extreme”, does that mean the progressive candidate inevitably leads to fascism?
Last time moderates didn’t get their very first choice, they formed a PAC to fundraise for McCain/Palin.
then there’s all the other stuff like student loans, the child tax credit
I see someone isn’t following what is happening or how this works. The President, leader of the Dems, changed federal policy to forgive student loans (or at least a big chunk of them for a big chunk of the population) and it got struck down by the Supreme Court thanks to the other party. The Dems passed the child tax credit and then couldn’t get it through the house to renew it because of the other party.
Generally voting for democrats on the federal level just means halting or slowing down the inevitable ratchet towards fashism, not actually improving things
Let’s say that’s true, it’s objectively not but let’s pretend it is. Isn’t that still the obviously better option? How the fuck is fascism today better than fascism tomorrow?
Then we don’t fucking deserve it or it will be time to refresh the tree of liberty. When disenfranchised people tell you that they don’t see a difference, ask why. These folk have lost family members and are telling you that, from their perspective the only difference between having a R and a D in the White House is whether you show up to protest too.
“Refresh the Tree of Liberty”… that’s some bullshit, Trump gets into office and he’ll chop that tree down himself. Then deport all the Muslims he can. Voting R is the literal version of “chop your nose off to spite your face”.
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If they can’t see a difference between having legal abortions and not, they’re fucking idiots.
Yes, Roe still exists and we need to preserve it by… making excuses for not codifying it.
Hey maybe republicans will do it.
“Everyone to my left is all the way to my right”
Na mine is “those idiots think getting the party furthest from their supposed ideal elected will be good for them”.
Then don’t accuse me of being a Republican for pointing out that Democrats did fuck all to preserve Roe.
If you can’t see the difference between not being able to get an abortion and your mother being dead, then I pity you and your lack of empathy.
If the overturn of Roe has turned you into a one issue voter, then I will pair you off with a 2nd amendment one issue voter and you can angrily jerk each other off.
Na I just picked an issue that any fucking moron would be able to tell the parties apart on.
Hey maybe Trump will be better on Muslim relations though.
Ah yes, Muslims are famously all pro-choice.
TIL discerning between two things is tantamount to support for one of them.
If you look at Democrats and Republicans and see no difference, you may want to ask yourself why a Trump presidency would be the same for you as a Biden presidency. There aren’t a whole lot of non white working class Americans who can say that.
Didn’t Trump have a travel ban on Muslims at one point?
Edit: yep, he did
Russian money hard at work.
“That Muslim Ban was such a good idea and concentration camps at the border, we want to see what the orange one will do next!”
While ignoring WHO built those concentration camps
If they succeed in electing Trump, Democrats won’t need to reflect about anything because they won’t be allowed to run for office anymore.
Ah, yes, “recalibrate” to a dictatorship. Republicans LOVE muslims!
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Absolutely shocked that Muslim fundies hate most of the same people Christian fundies do, yet are too stupid to realize the leopard will come for them eventually.
Shocked I say.
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In the little exerpt included in with the submission, a spokesman makes it clear that they would be worse off in the short run if trump gets elected, but they are thinking long term.
And this comment is implying they are pro trump…and it’s the highest voted comment? What’s going on here?
Oh yes because religious people are known for making smart decisions…
Religious people making bad decisions doesn’t preclude people here from not being bright enough to read an excerpt that is right in front of them so they won’t be terribly wrong on what they think is a ridiculous position.
Their idiot’s facade of justification doesn’t stop it from being a ridiculous position.
A lot of people feel justified in not actually listening to others and judging them from afar as what is happening. They feel justified in doing this for very specific reasons.
We live in a two party system. If you form a coalition to make Biden lose, then you’re making Trump win. They’re pro-Trump because they’re helping Trump. What’s going on is a fascist takeover of our country. We aren’t giving slack to anyone who enables fascism. The fascists will kill more people not less. This is bad short term thinking and bad long term thinking. The reward for helping fascists is death.
I agree with you it’s a dumb move. But dear God, they’re literally telling you, almost explicitly, that they don’t support the trump (basically supporting noone in the up coming election) and you’re still desperately torturing logic and twisting words to deny it. Is it really so hard for you to accept reality? Is it really so hard for you to accept that things are not so black and white?
It is that black and white. We live in a two party system, that’s reality. It’s not twisting words, it’s math. If one candidate doesn’t win, the other candidate does. Republicans are overrepresented by the electoral college, not voting helps them win. The support may be inadvertent, but it’s still support. They can say they don’t support Trump all they want. If they don’t vote for Biden, they are supporting Trump.
The support may be inadvertent, but it’s still support.
Using this tortured logic, if one doesn’t move to a swing state, even if they support and vote for Biden, their non action inadvertently helps trump get elected, so they actually support Trump.
It’s painfully dumb.
Republicans typically represent rural communities with low populations and high surface area. The electoral college votes are allocated to states based on the number of senators and representatives. Both of these are in turn skewed in favor of Republicans as each state gets two senators no matter what and the total number of house seats is capped at 435. Since neither chamber is properly apportioned by population, Republicans are overrepresented in both chambers.
Using this tortured logic, if one doesn’t move to a swing state, even if they support and vote for Biden, their non action inadvertently helps trump get elected, so they actually support Trump.
No one knows for sure which states are swing states until it’s too late. Remember the blue wall in 2016? Not enough democrat voters showed up and what were supposedly blue states went to Trump.
If a person doesn’t vote in an election then they are helping Republicans. If a person doesn’t vote for Biden then they are helping Trump.
A person doesn’t have to declare their undying loyalty to a candidate in order to support them. Making the other guy lose the election is sufficient. Your argument is splitting hairs.
No one knows for sure which states are swing states until it’s too late. Remember the blue wall in 2016? Not enough democrat voters showed up and what were supposedly blue states went to Trump.
Trump didn’t win any blue states, he won most of the swing states. And we also knew these were the close states, and we know which states are likely to be close again. This idea that “well, we plumb just don’t know what will be close states” is pretty much nonsense.
This is a dumb argument used to totally miss the point.
If a person doesn’t vote in an election then they are helping Republicans.
What if that person had voted, they would have voted for Trump? That voter is now hurting Trump’s chances, but according to this big-brain logic, that voter is actually helping Trump! lol.
And a person who doesn’t vote in a swing state is also helping Trump, despite the fact that they might have even voted for Biden. So, again, according to your logic, you can support and vote for Biden and still be a Trump supporter.
Your argument is splitting hairs.
You literally just argued “well, we don’t know for sure which are going to be swing states!” in an attempt to take down my point, and you’re accusing me of splitting hairs by pointing out that not supporting Biden does not mean you support Trump. Holy shit, this is hilarious. Do you even think about what you write down?
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Liberals love speculating what MIGHT happen, while ignoring what is actually happening.
So, what were trumps worda about muslims when he was president? Since youre concerned with what actually happened.
Still better then genocide. You and your fellow cohorts would be in an uproar if the exact same thing was happening if a republican was in the WH. You don’t care about people’s lives, only the one doing the killing
If supporting Israel is supporting genocide than Trump supports that too. Trump is one of Netanyahus strongest supporters, LOL.
I said nothing about supporting trump, I said oppose Biden. But Biden does happen to be the largest recipient of JStreet money
Opposing Biden is supporting Trump unfortunately in our two party system. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good
Instead of voters punching left, they should be making demands of the DNC to replace Biden.
You and your fellow cohorts would be in an uproar if the exact same thing was happening if a republican was in the WH.
You’re making it obvious that you have a double-standard and are simply projecting that.
There’s no double standard, your comment makes the assumption I advocate for a Republican
There’s no double standard, your comment makes the assumption I advocate for a Republican
I made no such assumption. But considering how quickly you jumped on this despite me not saying, it’s clear how much you were intentionally baiting it.
Projecting and not arguing in good faith. Probably should be obvious from your name that you’re just a bad troll.
“Me and my cohorts” you seem to know who I am. Why dont you tell me about myself, and I can explain a “false dichotomy” to you.
You’re not very self-aware, are you?
I’m self aware and aware of harm around me. Your party and Republicans contribute the most harm to society
Ahhh… you’re one one of those “bOtH siDeZ!” kids I’ve heard about.
Carry on with your rhetoric.
Not both sides because they are both on one side, and its not ours. What is it with liberals that love to infantilize while remaining smug and arrogant, does it make them feel intellectually superior? From the left its hard to tell a liberal from a republican.
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These fucking idiots.
It’s notable that the Republicans have not attempted to court the pro Palestinian voters in reaction to the anger at Biden. Because they are if anything more pro Israel / anti Palestine than the Democrats.
I agree that the Dems are the “only slightly better” party in a few aspects, and they need to do better. But slightly better is still better than the alternative and we need to vote like it.
FTA:
“a reflection of their outrage over President Biden’s handling of the Israel-Hamas war.”
If that’s legit their position, then they have no candidate in 2024. It’s not like they can vote for Trump.
That may be.
If Democrats need their votes, they’d best listen.
The DNC will ignore them, then blame someone else when they lose
And they clearly stated that they know trump would be worse short term, but they are hoping this puts long term pressure on democrats to represent their issues more.
This has never worked in reality though. Republicans will always pull the country to the right if they win.
If that’s legit their position, then they have no candidate in 2024
Yes. That’s literally their point.
Morons.
I will never ever understand minorities that vote this way. I get people who are like me voting conservative, I don’t but I get their self-interest pov. You are literally voting for people who want you deported. They have made that crystal clear.
