Moderate here means “don’t worry, rich white girls will still have the choice”
While I agree that many of them are thinking that way, the concept totally baffles me. If you’re a racist, why would you not support abortion for minorities? It’s the strangest thing to me. So the real problem here is people don’t understand how statistics work.
The abortion issue in particular doesn’t center around racists, it centers around evangelicals. Zealots believe that an abortion is Against God and really, truly, honestly believe they are saving your immortal soul and that of your baby by forcing you to carry to term. People like that can’t be reasoned with because they honestly believe they are acting in the best interests of folks that require saving. “This is for your own good” kind of attitude.
It’s also centred around misogynists and people jealous of other people having happy carefree sex
Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they’re sure trying to do so, it’s going to be a terrible damn problem.
For two reasons:
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It lets them pretend that they are morally superior/not racist and the left is racist. “The left wants to kill unborn black babies and we’re trying to save them.”
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They tend to not hate racial minorities - as long as they “stay in their place.” In the case of black people, they want black people to have no say in government and just do whatever their white
mastersemployers tell them to do for whatever pay their white employers decide to give them. More black babies means more workers in their minds.
The same is true of other people. Women are okay if they “stay barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.” LGBTQ people are okay if “they stay hidden in the closet and never mention who they really are.” Other religions are fine as long as they pretend that they are Christian.
Basically, they want things to go back to the “good old days” when white, straight, Christian men ran things and everyone else bowed to them.
as long as they “stay in their place.”
This is why they’re “law and order” candidates: They use the law to enforce their order
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If you’re a racist, why would you not support abortion for minorities?
Because they need fodder for the prison slave labor pipeline.
(I also agree with @skulblaka that it’s more about evangelicals than racists.)
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There are plenty of racists that are happy to let abortion be a thing. I’ve heard (and lost count of how many times) repeatedly about planned parenthood being started by a racist, etc. etc. The republicans aren’t a complete monomind, they just get along really well at the ‘we hate others’ party that their leaders throw.
It’s not about getting rid of them, its about lowering their standard of life to below that of yourself so you can continue to feel superior in your race.
More workers for the
slaveprison industry. Very few people want to actually eliminate the groups they look down on; they need them around to be exploited, to be scapegoats, etc.The Right wants to protect the unborn, so there will be more moving targets around for gun owners.
The fact is w/ the pill we will all get to have abortion but it will be just another frivolous money sink and purity test like the war on drugs.
Don’t underestimate him.
He beat an elderly, uninspiring, career politician against all odds once and he’ll do it again. People have short memories, and won’t remember the worst of his tenure
Already seen it. I don’t love Biden, but he’s done “okayish” at most things. Every time the economy comes up, people start missing Trump despite the fact he was the one that destroyed it
Even worse are the people saying they won’t vote for Biden in 2024 because they don’t agree with him 100% on certain issues when Trump would be even worse on those issues.
I understand not liking a politician completely. Hillary wasn’t my first pick in 2016 and Biden wasn’t my first pick in 2020. However, when it became clear that they were the nominee, I backed them over Trump. I’m sure some of these people will back Biden if/when he’s the nominee, but a lot of them are declaring that they will sit out the elections if Biden is the nominee because they want things done differently. Meanwhile, if Trump is elected - say, because some left wing voters stay home - these issues will be treated a whole lot worse!
Why is it always progressives who have to hold their nose and “vote blue no matter who”? Centrist Democrats have been driving the car for decades. If you don’t let me pick even one stop in 30 years then eventually I’m going to jump out of the car and you’ll have to extort gas money from someone else when I do. What you keep asking us to do isn’t compromise, it’s to stay in an abusive relationship where you get to make all the rules and we deal with it in silence. That only works for so long.
It’s because there aren’t enough progressives. I vote as progressive as I can in primaries. For some races it has paid off, and for others, well maybe next time.
Why is it always progressives who have to hold their nose and “vote blue no matter who”? Centrist Democrats have been driving the car for decades
Because we’re a minority and the options are the party that now gives us significant representation for our demographic (103 members of the House, and 1 (sadface) senator) or the party that thinks anyone left of “moderate-right” should be thrown out of a helecopter over the ocean.
The US is designed to change slowly, and even fixing that is designed to take time.
What you keep asking us to do isn’t compromise, it’s to stay in an abusive relationship where you get to make all the rules and we deal with it in silence
No. What we’re asking you to do is pick the loveless relationship where your party buys you supermarket flowers once a year over Jeffery Dahmer. The Dems don’t abuse us. We just don’t have the votes and constitutents to do something worthwhile. You do realize that if a moderate compromises too progressive, they get replaced with a Republican, right?
So why don’t we fight in-party for more representation and educate voters that we’re not the boogey man, instead of threatening to murder the whole country to get our way like the bloody Repubs do?
Try building an actual third party. Not by putting someone up for President every 4 years. That’s a waste of time, money, and effort. Get people into school boards, city councils, and county comptroller. Then aim for state congress and other positions at the state level. Now push for changing the voting system to something that doesn’t have a glaring problem like First Past the Post does.
A huge chunk of the changes progressives want are better done at the state and local level, anyway. Until then, we’ll keep getting what we get at the federal level.
Just an aside, Massachusetts voted ‘no’ for RCV a few years ago. I was surprised.
And why the alternative voting systems that do pass are things like RCV that have the lowest likelihood of electing a third party and can still be gamed to spoil the Dems
IRV-RCV is the easiest to understand, but the one we know almost certainly will never make a third party relevant in the US. But it’s the only alternative anyone is willing to talk about. Then the GOP makes it illegal anyway.
Something actually effective will simply never pass.
Funny how Biden turned out to be a lot less centrist than we were expecting. The pendulum is swinging left, and if we don’t keep pushing in the right direction the progress will stop. Just because we’re not getting everything we want right now doesn’t mean we’re not in the process of getting there. So stop bitching about how you don’t have the perfect candidate right now. Vote in the primaries for the most progressive candidates you can find, and then in the general election vote for the best candidate, even if it’s not your preferred choice.
Adulthood is about dealing with the world as it is, not the world we insist we should have. We have to be the adults in the room when no one else is willing.
We have to be the adults in the room when no one else is willing.
And in case anybody is wondering about the Republicans not being held to the same standard, that’s a consequence of the fact that the changes progressives want require passing new legislation, whereas the changes Republicans want can be achieved through obstruction and sabotage.
Just to clarify, I do want to hold Republicans to the same standards. I want their accountability to be conducted through electoral defeats and removing them from power. As difficult as it is to reform the Democrats into the progressive party we need them to be, such a feat is impossible with modern Republicans.
Just to clarify, I do want to hold Republicans to the same standards.
Oh, sure, I didn’t mean to imply otherwise. My comment was more about the practical/structural circumstances that allow them to get away with acting the way they do rather than being about how people feel about it, though.
There’s some interesting pieces that I think have gone unnoticed where rank and file Republicans do want something, but nothing happens. They don’t seem to care.
For example, repealing the Hughes Amendment of 1986, which bans the registration of new machine guns for personal use. Lots of gun tote’n NRA members want that gone. Republicans could have easily done it after the 2016 election, where they had both houses of Congress and the White House.
IIRC, there were some bills submitted to committee, where they promptly died. That’s it. The only meaningful changes to gun rights under Trump was declaring bump stocks illegal (which lets a semi-auto rifle be fired like a full-auto rifle).
Yet, you don’t see any of those NRA members talking about this. They are still lockstep behind the Republican party. Take any equivalent issue on the left, and people want the Democratic party to burn down for not supporting it.
I think there’s deep lessons to be learned there about how the rank and file treat their respective standard bearer political party.
That’s a solid point. The GOP couldn’t get together to wipe out the ACA because many Republicans actually realized it would fuck them to do so. It was an absolute comical disaster.
They half-gutted it, but we still have enough of it to be far better off than pre-ACA days.
Yet, you don’t see any of those NRA members talking about this. They are still lockstep behind the Republican party. Take any equivalent issue on the left, and people want the Democratic party to burn down for not supporting it.
I think there’s deep lessons to be learned there about how the rank and file treat their respective standard bearer political party.
This Alt-Right Playbook video does an excellent job of explaining that, IMO. (I linked to the specific timestamp where the explanation starts, but I recommend watching from the beginning for context.)
Adulthood is about dealing with the world as it is, not the world we insist we should have.
Which is why centrist Democrats saw the polling data saying Bernie Sanders performed better against Trump than Clinton or Biden and decided to throw their support behind him in both elections rather than forcing us to stick with the candidate they wanted, right? Wait a minute…
You’re talking about polling conducted eleven months ahead of the general election. Whatever you think you’re doing, you’re not participating in an adult conversation.
Goodbye.
Okay well whatever you think you’re doing, you’re coming off as a chode.
lol OK then
The same Berniecrats who could have had a progressive in the General in 2020 if they’d been willing to go for Warren (who was outpolling Bernie in the Primaries AND comparable in the General until the shitshow that cost them both the primary)
The thing with Primaries is that they’re like RCV. The most votes wins the Primary. If your second choice isn’t “whoever won the Dem primary”, then you’re the problem, whether your first was Biden, Bernie, or Elmo.
Which is why centrist Democrats saw the polling data saying Bernie Sanders performed better against Trump than Clinton or Biden and decided to throw their support behind him in both elections rather than forcing us to stick with the candidate they wanted, right?
People don’t like Bernie Sanders, so they didn’t vote for him.
As a Sanders voter & 4 figure donator, I’m glad Biden was in the White House when Russia invaded Ukraine.
Some people you don’t like made a decision you disagreed with for reasons we aren’t privy to, and that’s somehow a rebuttal of needing to deal with the world as it is? Your comment is a demonstration of the problem.
Idk unlimited sales of arms to fascists like Itamar Ben-Gvir seems pretty far right to me
And enabling Trump to sell more arms to more fascists is better how?
I’d argue that Biden is the one enabling Trump here
More to the left than expected, but I wasn’t expecting much. That’s not a win.
It’s not perfect, therefore it’s not enough? Seriously?
You should read this: https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Nirvana-Fallacy
I didn’t claim that. I voted for Biden, and I expect to do so again. I would very much like a better candidate. Tossing around logical fallacies isn’t a good look when you’re also jumping to conclusions.
Because of the electoral college. That forces a two-party system. Which is why we’re in this terrible situation.
It also does nothing to stop a progressive from running as a democrat.
Stunt candidates like Jill Stein are grifters who do not give a single solitary fuck about the state of the world, and anyone considering a candidate like that is also extremely unlikely to run themselves.
I have friends who voted for Nader. They thought they were making a statement too. Then we got into Iraq II and they were very upset by it. We also got John “fuck voting righs” Roberts and Samuel “bitches be hoes” Alito out of the deal. Don’t be stupid.
Watching a bunch of tiktok gronks give their brilliant hot takes on how they don’t have to vote for Biden is like watching a drunken fratboy who’s holding everyone’s phones dancing on a cliff rim because someone told them not to. Stupid fuck. It doesn’t work like that.
It’s plurality (a.k.a. FPTP) voting that forces a 2-party system. The main problem with the electoral college is that it gives a structural advantage to voters in low-population states, and those voters are overwhelmingly aligned with Republicans.
Tell me you don’t understand math & game theory without telling me you don’t understand math & game theory.
Because there are millions more normal people than extremists.
What is the viable option, then?
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You can count in those who are angry about Palestine here. They are now anti-Biden but can’t seem to understand that Biden at his worst is still better than Trump at his best.
This drives me crazy. Having an essentially neutral stance on anything in the Middle East should be the preferred stance of any US President at this point. It is a no-win quagmire.
There are a few geopolitical aphorisms that Western empires have discovered the hard way and that the US should remember (but probably won’t because, you know, US exceptionalism):
Never invade Russia. Never invade Afghanistan. Never fight a land war in Asia. Add to that, never invest any political capital in the Middle East. There is just no winning these conflicts and it is delusional to try. The only way to win conflicts like that is the way Stalin and Mao did it, and that is not our way. These places are the very definition of quagmire for western powers.
Now, imagine if Trump managed to win the next election because young Democratic voters are mad about Biden’s stance on Israel/Palestine and decide to stay home on election day. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
exactly
Let me fix that for you:
Due to the corruption of the Electoral College and even though he lost the popular vote, Trump beat an elderly, uninspiring, career politician.
ETA: Enough with the “well golly gee dontcha know that is how it works in the US” as if that justifies it. Let’s accept it for what it was: a way for slave owners to have greater influence than their state’s population otherwise allowed.
It’s how you win a process that’s commonly referred to as an election.
Yes, correct, he won the election.
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Not at all because those are the rules that need to change.
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Biden isn’t Clinton. If you hadn’t got the news yet, Biden already beat Trump once. No one that voted for Biden in 2020 is voting for Trump in 2024. Biden has to worry about his voters staying home and Trump is the candidate most likely to drive people to vote against him by far.
I would worry about Haley or Christie beating Biden before Trump. The only x factor is that Biden or Trump or both of them could croak in the next year.
My concern is for much more apathy this time around. Between the economy, his age, and his one sided handling of the complex Palestine Israel tragedy, I’m really dreading the outcome already.
I’ll vote for Biden again, especially against Trump, but he will never be exciting for me. If Trump continues to lay low during Republican events and doesn’t get convicted of some felonies, I could definitely see a scenario where Biden doesn’t get the votes and we all stand around mouth agape asking how it happened again.
I’d worry more about Desantis. He might have the charisma of used bubblegum, but there’s an awful lot of people who like what’s he’s selling.
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He beat an elderly, uninspiring, career politician
He has not ever done this.
In fact, since his 2016 fluke, his brand has been toxic and his candidates have consistently lost (as has he)
Hillary was all of those things what do you even mean??
She was not a “career politician” if you want that word to have any meaning. She was a civilian until like '98.
She also wasn’t elderly or uninspiring.
The revolving door is a thing she was married to President…hmm what was his name I’m forgetting it, maybe it will come to me. Oh that’s right Bill! That’s his name! To say she’s not a career politician after being in or around politics her entire adult life is down right disingenuous. She represents the dem establishment there’s no question of that, but I’m sure you will enlighten me as to how I’m wrong. 🙄
It’s less that you’re personally wrong and more that your entire belief system here was built by Republican strategists and you are too uninformed to recognize it.
Why are you being this way lol?
I was there for the election too. I remember what people said and felt. That absolutely was not Republican strategists.
Republicans framed her as corrupt sure but she was genuinely uninspiring and represented the establishment. The public has distrust for her and Trump represented something new, he wasn’t the white bread Christian candidate the Republicans always pushed.
She lost because candidates like Sanders and Stein were what people wanted, they had ideas to offer and she was a continuation of what people felt we had.
You’re explaining my own points back to me.
Sanders was not what people wanted or they’d have voted for him
I voted for Hillary in the general I didn’t fall for anything, but I can still recognise her flaws and want something better than the two options we’re spoon fed every election.
Lol “I voted for her but I still believe everything the Republicans said about her”
That’s… I mean at least you’re useful.
she was a but uninspiring tbh that’s why she lost nobody wanted to pokemon go to the polls for her
Maybe among the young and disconnected. The reason she lost in reality is that she was painted as a “corrupt politician” and tied to the Benghazi nothingburger while her opponent ran on populist anti-politician rhetoric
The masses are dumb and fell for it.
Yes he did, Thats why he was president for 4 years…
keep up
Trump could run as being ‘The Penguin’ and it wouldn’t matter in the slightest. His voters treat him like a fucking mad libs where they just get to fill in the blanks.
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See White Jesus
The funniest is the leader of the twin flames cult was like, “Hey notice how all the depictions of Jesus are of a white guy and not a middle eastern man. That’s because they are of me, I am white Jesus.”
Retconning racism to claim you are God. Religion is so great and moral.
Penguin won in his election! Mayor of Gotham!
Relative to Trump, he actually was a good guy.
I’m currently watching the old Batman show with Adam West. Trump as president was almost as cartoon-y as the villains in that show.
Batman is a villain just the fucking same.
Watch it scum!
I saw. I have no doubt. Him & Ironman.
You obviously haven’t seen the old show.
The cartoon or the comics?
The live action one with Adam West and Burt Ward.
All of his bragging about destroying RvW is going to make great political ads.
Democrats have been beating the polls at the ballot box by 9+ points since Roe v. Wade was overturned.
Is this going to be his “Beto is going to take your guns away” millstone? I certainly hope so.
Reminder that Trump once said: “I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida … to go to court would have taken a long time. Take the guns first, go through due process second.”
For all his talk about being pro-Second Amendment, Trump would be willing to limit people’s Second Amendment rights (and other rights) if it helped him in any way.
I actually didn’t know about that one.
And yet my Libertarian, “remove all gun restrictions,” “crazy people deserve guns even if it puts his 4yo in danger” BiL supports Trump. Fucking bonkers how much reality they ignore.
Only if the Democrats are willing to run attack ads
Which at least Biden is in a bigly way.
Maybe they are? I try very hard to avoid seeing ads.
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They almost certainly aren’t moderate or left leaning, but I’ve seen plenty of comments, including here on Lemmy, that they believe he’s truly back peddling.
I’d prefer that he run as an abortion.
Good ol’ 308th trimester abortion
It’s a longshot, but I’ll talk to the timelords. I mean - stupider things have happened.
Not sure why Trump would get the credit on that one. He’s not smart enough to find the right SCOTUS judge, nor to understand the ramifications (not sure any in the GOP really thought it through).
Mitch “Imma take a quick 30 second reality break” McConnell is the one that really made this happen with his “I think the next administration should elect the judge” garbage back in 2015 or 2016.
Evangelical groups see packing the court and harming abortion rights as his main achievement and he has boasted about his success with it in the past.
You’re right, but shhh. If he wants the credit for a deeply-unpopular thing, let him have it.
Far right always campaign to the left/try to use leftists arguments
Do you really think someone would do that? Just go into politics and tell lies?!
Democrats destroyed roe with 50 years of promise, and doing nothing but raise money from it.
I think a large part of us assumed that people in power wouldn’t cross red lines that had existed for decades.
Which was a terrible assumption for democrats to make. Especially when they controlled the house, senate, and presidency in the Obama era.
That being said, let’s call a spade a spade here. Democrats have been fighting to return Roe v Wade in many states. And Republicans have been standing against it, to the point of fighting their voters on laws they voted for.
Especially when they controlled the house, senate, and presidency in the Obama era.
You mean, for the two whole weeks that they had the supermajority they needed to bypass Republican obstruction?
This long-debunked talking point really needs to die once and for all.
And when they had senators in their party like Joe Donnelly, who was anti-abortion.
And as recently as 2022, party leadership was propping up anti-choice candidates.
The Freedom of Choice Act was already written and ready to go to vote BEFORE Obama was sworn in. Pelosi referred it to committee where it was sent to die.
Democrats CHOSE to let it die while they had that super majority.
Pelosi was dealing with the Blue Dogs, conservatives who were elected as Democrats. We didn’t have a progressive majority, we had a Democratic majority. And we still managed to get a record amount of progressive legislation through the House, where it went to die in the Senate thanks to the precedent-breaking tactic of filibustering everything Democrats tried to pass.
Two weeks during a holiday break was not enough to accomplish every single policy goal you expect. Pay attention and stop blaming Democrats for having to deal with complications instead of assuming they wielded total and unrestricted power. Because they never did, and probably never will.
The new Macedonian troll farm talking point. Democrats scuttled Roe.
probably never will
No need to reelect them then if they are powerless.
You can always tell who is politically ignorant (or weren’t born yet) when they trot out that Democratic Trifecta bullshit.
I love how perfect lockstep is always expected from voters, but never those they elect.
We need federal laws protecting abortion access. Roe v Wade was inconsistent with any other bodily autonomy law and always needed to be backed up with concrete laws.
Joe finally got his lifelong desire about Roe being a states rights issue.
This is the trolliest thing I’ve ever read.
And that’s why things are shit. Liberals can’t see their team is in on the joke.
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Your ignorance assumes my critique of Genocide Joe makes me a republican?
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“Uninformed” to shitlibs means I wont contribute to your neolib echo chamber.
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That’s cool, comrade. You keep on with your misinformation.
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Pretty sure he’s Russian, working for the Internet Research Agency.
I want to see more crowds booing like in Carolina. I wonder if they could get another Brandon type moment out of it for the campaign trail
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Despite their very public pressure campaign for that abortion ban, the former president insists that they will all fall in line and back him soon enough — with or without specific policy promises — in large part because they have nowhere else to turn.
Highlighting the absurdity of the idea, Dennis points to the fact that Trump is, at this very moment, running campaign ads in Iowa taking credit for the destruction of Roe v. Wade.
For instance, during the 2016 campaign, Trump began trying to brand himself as a different type of Republican who would protect widely popular entitlement programs, veering away from the conservative dogma of demanding spending cuts.
Across the country, Republicans dramatically underperformed in both the 2022 and the 2023 elections; all seven times abortion has been directly on the ballot since Dobbs, majorities of voters — even in conservative states like Kansas and Kentucky — have either voted against restrictions or in favor of expanded protections.
In recent months, Trump has argued to confidants and key allies that “even Republican” voters generally don’t want a national ban, based on the polling he’s been shown, the two sources say.
Trump’s strategy appears to be to promise to remain pro-life if reelected, but to avoid endorsing policies like a national ban in 2024 — and hoping just enough voters don’t notice the cynical triangulation.
The original article contains 1,817 words, the summary contains 225 words. Saved 88%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
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C’mon, Democrats. Roll this one on repeat:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-was-able-kill-roe-v-wade-rcna84897
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