Why is it OK for an American company to headquarter in one state then cherry pick another in which to file a lawsuit? Surely a company should be governed by the laws of the state in which they are based. It seems weird to choose the set of laws you want to be judged by when the defendant cannot do the same.
Because the system is set up so that the powerful can fuck over the powerless in any way they want.
It shouldn’t be OK and Media Matters will surely file for a change of venue. They’re located in DC and Twitter in California. Heck, Twitters own TOS says that your use of the service is governed by California law, so any claim that they fraudulently used the service should be handled in California.
But activist judges are also known to deny motions for made up reasons, so Twitter starts in Texas in hopes an activist judge keeps the case there to “stick it to the liberals.”
Texas is famous for judges that keep the venue there, with laws that are friendly to corporations. It’s why it’s the most popular state for these shitbird corporate lawyers to file suits.
Apparently X is registered in Nevada.
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Surely a company should be governed by the laws of the state in which they are based
This is not true and wouldn’t make why sense: let’s say you are a delivery company and one of your drivers runs over a dog in Texas. The lawsuit can be filed in Texas, regardless of whether your company is in Texas, California, or even outside the united states. The place you are incorporated in doesn’t change the damages or laws you violated when running over the dog. Of course you can also move the venue to the state the company is based in.
You cannot (generally) move it to another state, since that state doesn’t even have jurisdiction over any part of the incident.
The internet is just special in the sense that really something that happened on the internet happened everywhere on earth at the same time, meaning any venue is a place where potential damages were accrued.
Agree that if an incident happens in a particular jurisdiction, the local court should handle it. That makes sense, no argument here. But here they get to choose the set of laws because there was no physical location? That just feels wrong somehow. Anyway there is a physical location and if anything, the incident was ‘perpetrated’ by a person who was physically located somewhere at the time. It should be handled by the court local to them at the time. In the case of organisations, I guess this would mean where the defendant company operates from. Or if we accept it is virtual and everywhere then, it should be governed by federal laws not state laws.
I answered a little more in detail in a different comment (https://fedia.io/m/technology@lemmy.world/t/411563/-/comment/2556033) but to address the last point: They did file in federal court (specifically the federal district court in north texas).
Makes sense, but how can things like the slapp suit from bob murray have been in a state (west virginia) neither hbo ( who called bob a lot of shit and is located in new york ) , bob murray ( utah) or his company were in?
Edit: excuse me, i meant bob murray, not bill murreyWait, what is this about Bill Murrey? I’m out-of-the-loop…
EDIT: Never mind, I was thinking of Bill. Bill Murray. He’s still cool, apparently…
Bob Murray
Thank you for clarifying. Wrong dude. I need to caffinate before commenting…
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Essentially the same argument: Due to the fact the HBO show was syndicated throughout the united states, he can file in the federal courts in e.g. Texas (usually the argument is something like “They damaged business relations/contracts in XYZ state, therefore we file in XYZ state”).
Despite neither having anything to do in xyz state? That sounds broken as hell :/
But thanks for explaining !
I think your example covers the case where a company has a lawsuit filed against it. And the object of the lawsuit is an event that occurred in a particular state. But why should a company be able to originate a lawsuit in the state of their choosing? Shouldn’t it either be their home state or the home state of whom ever they’re suing? Or wherever the events in question took place?
The issue with the internet is that it did take place in texas as well: The news article was available in texas, so the news corp can be sued there. Basically the argument is: “Media Matters harmed X’s brand in texas using misleading information” (you can read their arguments for filing in texas under the “Jurisdiction and Venue” section of their filing).
Also remember that this is currently X’s wish list: Media Matters can file for a change in venue.
Edit: Quick update.
Looking at their filing, the case will probably fail under a motion for summary judgment: They basically agree with Media Matters that they did show ads under extremist’s posts. They simply argue that you need to push the twitter algorithm to its limits by doomscrolling for a long time until the algorithm fails. However, this doesn’t make any of the facts provided by Media Matters (https://www.mediamatters.org/twitter/musk-endorses-antisemitic-conspiracy-theory-x-has-been-placing-ads-apple-bravo-ibm-oracle) wrong.
Thanks
It was filed in federal court. Why they filed in a federal court in Texas is not yet clear.
Iirc musk lives there
It was handed to the same trump judge that struck down student loan forgiveness.
Its super clear why he filed it there, and it isn’t because he lives there.
The instant they enter discovery, he’s going to have to drop the suit like usual or hand over an awful lot of evidence of interacting with some extremely shitty racist ass hats. I’m excited for either outcome.
Oh… I want discovery to go deep. Like all the way to the market manipulation that caused him to buy Twitter in the first place… didn’t he avoid the lawsuit and buy Twitter just to avoid discovery? Let’s discover all!
Pretty much, yep. What did end up in discovery was an absolute embarrassment to anybody with a shred of dignity. Obviously Musk has none of that, so we’re here again.
Please consider setting up an account on Mastodon and slowly move over as it takes time to build your network just like it did when you first joined Twitter. Get off Twitter.
As much as I hate twitter and musk like you, mastdon can not be used for news but solely a social network app, which I’m not intrested in any. Tried it for a while and mostly it’s cat pics.
That is why I suggest just opening account and cross post so that over time the network can grow. The more who do this the more relevant the content will be on Mastodon. That, or we call all be held as hostages on X and survive to Elon’s desires.
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Some people prefer that format. Some prefer this format and others entirely different formats. All should exist but should be decentralized as centralization is problematic.
I know you don’t mean him, but that would be funny as shit to see him link a mastodon account, and see what the reaction of the community is to him.
Elon did profess the virtues of decentralized currencies, but that was all just a pump and dump in the end. He could care less about decentralization as he is all about centralization clearly.
Mister “fined by sec for stock manipulation” screams about fraud? Also that situation with the ads should have never been possible in the first place.
Its just SO good
Why do they keep proving this “every accusation is a confession” meme?
That is the white supremacist attitude:
Just because Mr. White can do something doesn’t mean anyone else can do it.
As a corollary to that: if anyone else can do something then surely Mr. White can do it, too. Mr. White demands it.
Here alleged white supremacist Elon Musk supports Mr. White’s right to say anything and everything while anyone not Mr. White must seek permission.
As someone who struggles internally with my racism I can’t tell you how much I hate seeing the richest man in the world reinforce these white supremacist values while I try to strangle them out of my interior life. It is like Jefferson Davis is become 21st century businessman.
As someone on the receiving end of it, thank you for your struggle
Here alleged white supremacist Elon Musk
What do you mean, “alleged white supremacist”?
The guy is an overt white supremacist - end of story.
I can’t tell you how much I hate seeing the richest man in the world reinforce these white supremacist
I guess this is the first time you’ve been made aware that white supremacism and capitalism have always gone together like a house on fire?
Mr. free speech absolutist.
You misspelled abolitionist.
“”““free speech””“”
The alleged manipulation involved creating an account that exclusively followed a combination of major brands and extremist content, then “endlessly scrolling and refreshing its unrepresentative, hand-selected feed” until it saw a confluence of the two.
Bold move to admit that what was reported was both true and an intended way for ads to be served on Xitter.
I know, right?! “The user has to follow our brands and our extremist content!!!”
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You’re probably more likely to see ads from brands you follow but there’s no way in hell you get less ads if you follow fewer brands.
No, you’ll constantly see ads from everything. The only limiting factor is that you block the brand’s account. Even then they were discussing the possibility of forbidding the users from blocking ads.
So the manipulation was just… be interested in racist content. Of course this shit is filed in Texas, no other state is dumb enough to give this case daylight.
Your speech is free, as long as you can afford it.
Time to go look up Texas’ anti-SLAPP laws …
According to the article there aren’t any. That’s why he filed in Texas. I do wonder how he can file in Texas if neither X nor Media Matters is located there. Doesn’t that make it simple to file a motion to move the case to California and then use their anti-SLAPP laws?
That’s probably what will happen.
In a sensible world. In the real world there is a decent chance some activist judge will deny the motion. Corps love suing in Texas.
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In France we also renamed it the David Michigan effect
How performative vs serious are these Musksuits?
I doubt he’ll win but media matters will have attorney fees and those can be financially devastating sometimes.
How are Tesla shaehrolders not like suing for something to deal with Musk doing stupid shit like this? How far are they gonna let him go?
Who knows. Maybe they realize the stock is already overpriced and they don’t want to jinx it. I’m still in awe of the fall musk made in the public consciousness. He went from the guy who wanted to change the world and help end fossil fuel consumption to someone who paid 40+ billion to make a safe space for Internet trolls… Crazy.
I think anyone who has even the slightest idea of how the market works knows Tesla is grossly overvalued. Obviously it’s nowhere near the whole story, but when their market cap is nearly 20× that of Ford’s with ½ the revenue, something is fucky
Irrational exuberance at its finest
I’m still more in awe how he could keep up that futurist facade for so long.
Elmo literally sued the real founders of Tesla in order to be able to call himself a founder.
It goes back as far as his school career, where he was too dumb to get his degree in physics, but because of a generous donation was able to get it 2 years after he left.
That guy was like this from the start.
So I believe people can be incredibly complex. I think Elon truly wants to improve the world. I also think he is not someone who is overburdened with an abundance of virtue. I want to be the kind of person who always hopes someone who is mistaken will eventually see the error of their ways and change course. I’m not very optimistic though.
Oh I don’t doubt that in his mind he is improving the world.
The issue is that his vision for an improved world also includes it being a neofascist hellscape. Dude misses living in apartheid
He could keep up the facade because it’s easier to fool people than to get them to admit they’ve been fooled.
Don’t forget how one of his companies was pushing the envelope in reusable rockets.
And now burning the aura he carefully built for… Twitter and “alt-right” bullshit.
I think a lot of people knew Musk was full of it from the start. His recent twitter antics have just brought the realisation to a larger crowd.
Well atleast they’re admiting the screenshots are legit. Knowing how much people hate this guy, I wouldn’t be too surprised if the algorithm manipulation claim was actually true. However you’d think that by this point they would already have optimized their advertising system to prevent this exact thing from happening.
They probably had a solution for it, but mr. “I know better then everyone else” probably took the solution offline while he was dismantling twitter earlier this year
Algorithm manipulation makes it sound like hacking.
Twitter is arguing they gasp followed racist accounts and gasp waited a bit.
That’s it. That’s the manipulation they’re suing over.
Such actions cannot stand and are fraud. As you’re not ACTUALLY interested in racist content. /s
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Nearly simultaneously, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton opened an investigation into Media Matters for “potential fraudulent activity.” Musk posted the news on his X account, stating that “fraud has both civil and criminal penalties.” Musk had previously responded to a tweet by former Trump advisor Stephen Miller that suggested conservative attorneys general (like Paxton) look into fraud charges.
“Media Matters has manipulated the algorithms governing the user experience on X to bypass safeguards and create images of X’s largest advertisers’ paid posts adjacent to racist, incendiary content, leaving the false impression that these pairings are anything but what they actually are: manufactured, inorganic, and extraordinarily rare.” The alleged manipulation involved creating an account that exclusively followed a combination of major brands and extremist content, then “endlessly scrolling and refreshing its unrepresentative, hand-selected feed” until it saw a confluence of the two.
(Musk famously beat a libel suit after falsely dubbing one of his critics a “pedo guy.”) “We are going to continue our work undeterred.
If he sues us, we will win,” the organization’s president Angelo Carusone told The Verge in a previous statement, saying that “Elon Musk has spent the last few days making meritless legal threats, elevating bizarre conspiracy theories, and lobbing vicious personal attacks against his ‘enemies’ online.” Carusone reiterated the sentiment after the suit was filed.
Moving the lawsuit also puts it under the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals, which has proven highly sympathetic to conservative figures who claim they’ve been censored — something Musk has made a centerpiece of his publicity strategy around X.
But she suggested employees “be as fiscally responsible as possible” to offset potential losses from advertisers and exhorted them to “by all means, put your heads together to bring new revenue into the company.”
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