The IDF Spokesman Twitter account for Arabic has published guidance for Gazans to evacuate along two main roads between 10am and 4pm today (October 14th).
Translation courtesy of @hassanmckusick:
#Urgent Important statement for residents of Gaza City In recent days, we have appealed to you to leave Gaza City to the south of Wadi Gaza in order to preserve your safety. I would like to inform you that the IDF will allow movement on the indicated streets without any harm between the hours of 10:00 - 16:00. For your safety, take advantage of the short time to move towards the south - from Beit Hanoun to Khan Yunis. If you care about yourself and your loved ones, go south as instructed. Rest assured that Hamas leaders have taken care of themselves and are taking cover from strikes in the region. Residents of Al-Shati, Al-Rimal and West Al-Zaytoun will also be allowed to move on Daldul and Al-Sanaa Streets towards my street By At Saladin and the sea
Jerboa doesn’t show the link and the picture together: https://twitter.com/AvichayAdraee/status/1713065991511388610
Fuck Israel for doing this. Displacing an entire population of people. I’d bet money that MOSAD knew about this attack (maybe not to this degree), but expected that it’d give them all the political ammunition that they’d need to fuck over Palestinians even worse than they already have it.
I don’t think they did, at least not the extent of it. It was a massive embarrassment to Netanyahu. 86% of jewish Israelis blame him for the attacks and more than half are asking him to resign.
This is a major intelligence fuckup. Bibi is done for.
Fuck both Hammas and Israel politics for this. Hammas built tunnles under civilian infrastructure (hospital, apartment buildings, kindergarten) in Gaza Strip and hides there.
Mosad does not operate in Palestinian Territories
Are you sure.about that? Or are you saying it’s shin bet’s jurisdiction?
Shin Bet is responsible
Yes, it’s shin bet’s jurisdiction
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I’m sure one of the largest and most advanced intelligence services in the world isn’t operating in a neighbouring territory which their bosses have significant geopolitical interests
Idk what to tell you, that’s just not their job. Since Palestinian affeirs were considered domestic historically and therefore the Shin Bet handles them. It stayed that way when Israel withdrew from Gaza
Oh, the point being Mossad vs Shin Bet pedantics.
I mean, sure, but it’s like how people might use MI6/MI5 or FBI/CIA interchangeably. I wouldn’t get too deep about it.
You forgot the /s are the end.
Shin Bet (Mossad but domestic issues) DID actually warn the Likud party and Ben Netanyahu that the increased violence supported by the Israeli state against Palestinians in the West Bank (Al Aqsa Mosque, Jenin etc.) were going to increase tensions and risk a Hamas response.
They were largely ignored, mocked, or slandered as deep state arab supporters. Make no mistake that this is not only does this war serve Likud and Bibi, but also their long term interests in cleansing the west bank of Palestinians.
Also, Likud and Bibi’s successive govts took multiple policies to push Hamas into conflict with the Palestinian Authority (the actual elected govt of the West Bank) and in turn keep their political modus operandi against Palestinians from weakening.
if they’re posting it to twitter, hearing in mind power and internet are totally cut in Gaza, this is for YOU to read, not Palestinians.
when civilians are inevitably killed they’ll tell the press that it was “clearly communicated through official channels” and everyone online will just take the IDF at its word.
They are also dropping leaflets.
Not defending the IDF, just saying
I think they’ve been dropping leaflets and some people still have access.
Sure, but the act of telling the UN and social media was to make the case of the fabled civilian insurgent when these people are killed, including the ones killed by IDF when travelling along the very roads in the graphic.
I do think they want them out, but for tactical rather than humanitarian reasons.
Lowering civilian casualties will also decrease Hamas recruitment further on down the line.
That’s an ominously round shapefile they used to mark the evacuation boundary…
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They wont. But if they did, it would be an interesting political move. It would demonstrate unambiguously that:
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they have nukes (everybody sorta knows, but its never been confirmed)
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they are willing to use them in anger against their enemies (only the second country to use them against enemies)
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they are willing to engage in a first strike (many countries are comitted to not being the first to send the spicy boi)
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they are willing to use them against a non-existential threat (many countries intend only to use them only when faced with, or after experiencing annihilation)
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they are willing to use them on their own doorstep, to the peril of hostages, enemy civilians, and their own citizens/fisheries/farmland in the region
This would be such a radical nuclear doctrine that it would genuinely give all arab countries, and Iran, pause to consider their own safety.
If Israel used nukes on Gaza it would mean that the gloves are off and there’s nothing stopping Russia from deploying nuclear munitions in Ukraine or other nuclear backed states to use it in conflict areas.
A change in nuclear doctrine of one state doesn’t necessarily mean another will change their doctrine too. For example, Russia and India have a No-first-use policy, but the US and Pakistan do not; they reserve the right, in their doctrine, to use nukes whenever they see fit.
Russia’s doctrine didnt change reactively when the US switched from ‘massive retalliation’ doctrine to ‘flexible response’. In ‘flexible response’ doctrine, a bit of light nuking is potentially acceptable - not surprising from the only country who has had tangible success from doling out a nuclear spanking.
The UK has a doctrine of first strike ambiguity, meaning that their adversary wont know whether or not the UK are willing to strike first until it starts raining MIRVs - or not.
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Here’s approximately how long it would take to traverse from inside the city to outside the circle + eventually extra traffic: https://i.imgur.com/aZxkGlt.png
Except you have a million people trying to do the same, that’s extra extra extra taffic
Imagine hauling your grandma and toddlers across 24km of crowded street with occasional rubbles, and you need to cross them within 6 hours or risk a fiery death. Totally doable! /s
Because everyone has a car and driving through rubble is no problem. Especially with a million people who do not have electricity, fuel or food.
I take no position, if this is good or bad. I have my opinion but I don’t want any arguments with either side, so I just posted objective facts.
I was just curious on the distance and figured other people would also want to know.
It is also an objective fact that only about 1/3 of Palestinian households own a car so for the average able bodied Palestinian it will be a ~4.5 hour walk assuming no traffic
And then throw in the fact that they’re displacing over a million people. There will be traffic like never before.
It’s not my fault if someone didn’t do their own research when making up their minds from my image.
I posted one fact, I don’t have to post every single fact in the world.
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I posted what I posted before they started to attack the evacuating civilians or at least before I knew about it.
I later posted a link to an article about the bombings. What’s up with Lemmy users not reading the thread before commenting?
I mainly used Google maps to know the distance, and the time helps with visualisation of the length.
If you think that the estimate was exactly correct, you are lost.
And if you look at any footage of the evacuation you would see that traveling by car is possible.
Maybe it’s uncommon or it’s slower than anticipated, but don’t pretend it’s impossible, because it clearly is.
That may be but don’t argue with me about it.
I just posted an image from Google.
Your link is assuming more or less perfect conditions, right now probably some of this road is destroyed and completely packed with people, livestock and what not.
Yeah, obviously.
I just checked just now and it still alright fine, but that doesn’t matter when Israel bombs the “safe” route anyways: https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364
Maybe google’s congestion tracking doesn’t work well there, dunno.
This would only work if people are using their phones for navigation, considering that electricity and fuel are short, I don’t think many people were keeping their phones switched on.
When Israel were under attack, the entire country joined together and helped people evacuate from their destroyed homes. Also the military and security forces. Not saying it’s easy, but it certainly is doable if Gaza was a functioning society. Sadly, it’s not.
terrible time to assume they are using cars
Right? How can they afford a car if they can’t even afford food and are unemployed.
no fuel, no power, no food, no water.
Thanks for sharing. I wonder what the walking estimate is and driving with traffic.
The walking estimate is around 5 hours
If you’re a healthy adult and not bringing all your remaining possessions, your elderly parents and your children.
Yes obviously, that goes without saying.
It’s a walking estimate and those obviously assume that you walk at an average constant pace for 5 hours without slowing down (or up) or stopping.
The estimate isn’t for estimating how long it will take them. It’s for getting an idea on how far it is. Then you can estimate time on your own, with variables such as children, bringing your stuff, etc.
It’s a lot easier to visualize the distance if you have an estimate of what it would take you, compared to a fancy map with no scale or anything.
Thank you! I can’t imagine being in that situation.
Translation:
The safe way to move civilians south
Street name 1
Street name 2
Yellow line: Safe route
Dotted lines: Gaza Border
Source: Google translate app
Also those paths are roughly 10 miles long for anyone unfamiliar with the region or to lazy to check Google maps.
And Israel has already bombed a convoy following that exact route. There’s no reason for Palestinians to trust this, if they could even get on the internet to begin with.
Can you share a link about that?
The twitter post has a lot more content. That’s the translation I was referring to.
I’m dumb.
#Urgent Important statement for residents of Gaza City In recent days, we have appealed to you to leave Gaza City to the south of Wadi Gaza in order to preserve your safety. I would like to inform you that the IDF will allow movement on the indicated streets without any harm between the hours of 10:00 - 16:00. For your safety, take advantage of the short time to move towards the south - from Beit Hanoun to Khan Yunis. If you care about yourself and your loved ones, go south as instructed. Rest assured that Hamas leaders have taken care of themselves and are taking cover from strikes in the region. Residents of Al-Shati, Al-Rimal and West Al-Zaytoun will also be allowed to move on Daldul and Al-Sanaa Streets towards my street By At Saladin and the sea
Same method, google translate app
Edit: Feel free to copy this OP
Thank you!
It would help if the IDF drove some civilians that have mobility issues or arranged shelters for people to stay in.
Also if every hospital is at capacity, where do the patients in the north side go? I hope the IDF doesn’t blow them up.
IDF cannot go there, Hammas will open fire. Hammas on the otherhand can drive them away, but won’t, they keep them as human shield.
Gaza, is not controlled by the IDF, it is fully free, sovereign, and governed by Hamas. The IDF cannot drive people around, it’s not their territory.
The IDF cannot drive people around, it’s not their territory.
Too bad Israel keeps killing amnesty workers or I bet they would volunteer: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/nine-staffers-working-with-un-palestinian-refugee-agency-killed-air-strikes-gaza-2023-10-11/
Oh lemme guess, it’s a feature not a bug?
This is very unfortunate, I don’t want to lessen the severity of this. But I want to stress that Israel had stated many times in this conflict that Hamas is the sole target of the attacks. I also want to stress the measures that Israel had taken in order to prevent killings of innocent bystanders, from roof-knocking, calling people’s homes, throwing pamphlets from the sky etc. warning people in the area of attack. These measures are not employed anywhere else in the world, not in Ukraine, not in Armenia and most certainly that did not happen last saturday when Hamas attacked Israel. I see all the posts against Israel’s warnings and I just don’t get it. It is supposed to be the responsibility of Hamas as the elected government in Gaza to evacuate people from warzone (just like how Israel had evacuated over a million civilians from around gaza and Lebanon to keep them safe). But since they don’t do that, Israel reveals its war plans and literally tells when and where they plan to attack, in order to keep people safe.
Wikipedia might disagree with you. You can compare the civilian casualties on both sides since 2001 and it is immediately obvious that Israel simply doesn’t care. Israeli settlers killing some Palestinian, no investigation.
IDF killing kids for throwing stones, no problem.
IDF killing journalists, again, no persecution, no effective sentences, nothing. And all this coming from an historically oppressed nation, oh the turn tables.
Too many words, don’t care, didn’t read. Don’t kill amnesty workers and journalists. No excuses.
Where do you live?
In the hearts of the people I have loved and the nightmares of those who have crossed me. /s
Why?
I want to know how many innocent journalists and human rights activists died by the hands of your country. Or maybe suggest some state that is up to your standards?
You can say you are only targeting hamas, but when you start bombing evacuation convoys, why should anyone believe them?
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Your guy says 3 options.
Hamas airstrike, Israeli airstrike, horrible accident.
I would love to be wrong but what you just linked to proves nothing than what we already knew.
Note that I am accepting your random Twitter guy as evidence for the sake of this argument only.
I didn’t trust twitter before and i damn sure don’t now.
I do admit it casts doubt though and if you can show me a legitimate source showing your side I would love to read it.
I really want to be wrong about israel.
I want them to have not become oppressors after they of all people know how bad it was
The IDF can not simply go there, Hamas wound instantly open fire.
Idf needs to get the fuck out of Palestine before the rest of the world figures out that we collectively fucked up in 1948 and rectifies the situation.
You know. With the same methods they use today.
Of course they extend the evacuation order. They know it isn’t feasible for a million ppl to evacuate in 24 hours. They’re not savages like Hamas, and fear for innocent loss of life. They do give unreasonable orders so people will act quickly, because boy oh boy are they about to attack.
