The death toll means around ten percent of the kibbutz’s population was wiped out
The bodies of more than 100 people were discovered by volunteers in a single, small Israeli village Monday — including those of children — believed to have been killed by Hamas militants caught on camera.
The remains were discovered in Be’eri, or Bari, a kibbutz in southern Israel close to Gaza. It’s one of the villages Hamas militants invaded on Saturday as they began their attack on the country.
“Today the volunteers entered Kibbutz Bari and it is impossible to explain in words the terrible sights - some were adults, some were children. These are horrors that cannot be grasped in the mind or soul,” a spokesperson for Zaka search and rescue told IDF radio.
Hamas thought this operation would change everything.
They were right, but not in the way they expected. All they’ve done is turn soft sympathisers like myself away from their cause. They deserve everything they get and it’s not going to be pretty. The Palestinian who will be killed during crossfire are on Hamas hands this time and the rest of the world will see it that way. absolute own goal, so they could… massacre a bunch of civilians. Hamas showing military genius of the likes of Russia
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Lmao what? They cut off water to civilians. It’s over. Palestinian women and children are going to be dying in massive numbers over the next week.
That doesn’t even begin to include the number of Palestinian civilians being shelled to oblivion in the supposed “safe areas” designated by the authorities.
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Israel: tells civilians where to seek shelter Israel: bombs the shelters You: fuck hamas
Source on bombing shelters? This is being repeated all over the place and I can’t find anything
Edit: I guess on mobile the first link tries to make you download an app, here’s another -> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/10/alarm-as-israel-again-hits-rafah-border-crossing-between-gaza-and-egypt
Edit Edit: this might not actually be a good example of my point. Gimme a few to get back to it.
But like, lets be real, Israel has been bombing civilian targets for years. https://apnews.com/article/israel-middle-east-business-israel-palestinian-conflict-fe452147166f55ba5a9d32e6ba8b53d7
And before anyone says “Hamas was actually hiding in the walls and between the floorboards”, source? Just one reputable source with 3rd party verification.
Edit Edit Edit: Nah its good. It’s not the best example of what I mean but it’s a valid lesser example. I’ll stand by it.
You mad bro??
Israel routinely bombs news buildings, wtf are you talking about?
Far be it for me to defend the IDF, but Hamas does go out of its way to create civilian death delimeas for Israel, such as using news buildings and hospitals for critical operations centers. It’s a win/win, either Israel won’t destroy that Hamas infrastructure, or they literally blow up journalists and hospitals.
I’m not even saying this to cast judgement one way, or another, it’s just an objective statement of fact and these tactics are incredibly effective for the type of conflict they’re engaged in.
If it’s an objective statement of fact then you can definitely provide sources where third parties have confirmed that information to be true, right?
Are you talking about that Hamas Radiostation?
“Tell me which war crime you’re mad about so I can make up a lie to defend it”
What the fuck are you talking about?
Spew your hate elsewhere
“Accountability feels like an attack when you’re not ready to acknowledge how your behavior harms others.”
Israel at least shows an attempt to target military and government buildings,
They’re not doing that right now, that’s for sure.
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Maybe something about blowing through the border like a bunch of orcs and murdering, raping and pillaging that makes you the bad guy
So the idf?
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Oh you got me that specific thing I can’t show because why could I? I can do the same, show me one instance of a Palestinian executing a us citizen by bulldozer for 15 minutes.
Bro they’re been demolishing civilian infrastructure for decades, most of the time Palestinian Gaza does not have power because Israel bombs the power station.
Hamas is shit but no yeah Israel kills thousands of civilians every year. They’ve killed 22 journalists in 20 years. They have hit news buildings with rockets, once calling for an evacuation first, for whatever fucking reason they had to hit those buildings I guess. Israel is an apartheid state. No, Hamas isn’t giving a proper response.
It’s for this human shield behaviour that this could be the beginning of the end for the whole of Palestine. Israel doesn’t care anymore, so any civilians are going to be in the firing line too. All Hamas needs to do to bring about the end of Palestine is to keep using Palestinians as meat shields.
Civilians have always been in their firing line, what the fuck are you talking about? They’re not human shields, they’re just civilians being murdered by the IDF
Hamas launches rockets from a civilian site and tells people not to leave when IDF warns them the building will be targeted shortly
Israel is trying to limit collateral damage and Hamas is actively throwing people into danger
“the building” AKA hospital or school. Where’s your evidence for the thing about them telling people not to leave? I know it’s a common trope, but is there any actual evidence there?
agree. fuck hamas. every death of this conflict is on their hands
Maybe you shouldn’t speak on this one bud
Literally the opposite. Like in black and white, in the data on death tolls since 1948 or whenever you want to start counting. Palestine doesn’t have a military, Israel doesn’t allow them to. How would they be targeted if they don’t exist? Every. Single. Time. Someone from
Hamas does something stupid out of desperation, takes out a couple Israeli soldiers, and Israel responds by slaughtering hundreds to thousands of Palestinian civilians. Completely disproportionate in every way.
Like it’s kind of wild how much gall it takes to straight up REVERSE a statistic like that, and state it as fact. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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I haven’t advocated for shit, and people like you make good faith discussions about this topic impossible.
You clearly know very little actual history of the region.
https://twitter.com/UNSCO_MEPP/status/1393940810937348098?s=20
I look forward to the evidence you will provide that disproves the UN’s claim that Hamas purposely uses heavily populated civilian areas to stage attacks. Also, I think Hamas did more than “take out a couple Israeli soldiers” this time.
It is possible to condemn Israel’s far right government while also recognizing Hamas as scum. We can simultaneously damn both for killing civilians without making it seem like one has given the other justification.
Palestinians using violent means might think they’re succeeding because they are actually getting landback for the first time in decades, but they fail to consider how bad it looks to me, a guy on the internet who thinks it would be better for their PR if they kept dying instead.
A) they didnt get land back, they are likely to lose more
B) throw rocks at tanks, dont be surprised when you get glassed
A) they didnt get land back, they are likely to lose more
False, they did. And they only lose more if Israel continues its genocide, which you’re prob gonna advocate.
B) throw rocks at tanks, dont be surprised when you get glassed
Like I said. Grotesque, as usual 🤣
False, they did
what, a bloodsoaked festival ground? for long?
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least insane lemmy poster
It’s a Tankie - what do you expect?
No, the Gaza residents don’t deserve collective punishment, and that is what Hamas wants. They want Israel to overreact and clamp down. They want videos of their dead children and women across all media. This is part of the tried and true strategy of big guy vs little guy conflicts, and guess what it NEVER WORKS… for the big guy.
How did 9/11 work out for Osama Bin Laden? Better then he could have ever even dreamed of.
You can’t kill your way out of this kind of conflict. The only ways out are A) complete genocide or B) political resolutions and bringing them to the table.
Neither Bibi, nor Hamas, want option B, and they’re both hoping that eventually option A will work out in their favor.
You just contradict yourself. You can’t kill your way out of this kind of conflict. Then you say you can complete genocide. So you can kill your way out of this.
That is likely what they are going to do. Starve out and destroy Gaza so everyone leaves. Then enter it and take it over and build another wall woth even more guns and keep pushing new walls further back to make the balstics Hamas use less effective.
This conflict is Israel vs Hamas, at least on paper. So even if Israel ramps up strikes without care of civilian death, that is still different then an actual intentional and systemic genocide.
So no, Israel cannot kill it’s way out of this current conflict.
Of course they can and they are doing it. They are going to destroy Gaza block by block until everyone has fled or is killed and there is nothing but rubble to go back too. Then Isreal will just take over the land and move in.
I understand that is ultimate dream of Bibi, Ben-Gvir, and a disturbingly large number of genocidal zealots that support them, but no, that is not going to be what happens with this specific conflict at this time.
Eventually, they will withdraw from Gaza and leave the millions of Palestinians left to starve and suffer in the rubble.
Let’s say, hypothetically, that Hamas was actually somehow destroyed, every leader killed, and 200k fighters dead. What kind of organization do you think would rise up to replace it?
Looks like they are doing a pretty good job if leveling Gaza right now and don’t appear to be stopping anytime soon
Option A won’t work out for them if they and their buddies cease existing and the strip is radioactive glass. Same with their buddies Hezbollah. And Israel, regardless of strategic ambiguity, almost certainly has the capability to pull it off.
Lol. Pretending like nuking them is an option is the most sadistic and stupid thing I’ve seen. They’d be nuking themselves. Radiation doesn’t stay in place, and also presumably they want to control that area too. These takes make everyone a little dumber.
Nah bro. I’m pretty sure radioactive fallout respects territorial integrity and has a strict lines on maps approach to how it gets distributed post detonation.
So as long as Israel gives its nukes clear orders not to float over and contaminate Israeli territory, they should be good.
Yep, just a stern talking to and those nukes will take care of the rest.
Oh, and he’s not pretending to not understand, he really doesn’t because he’s really, really, and I mean seriously, stupid.
Setting aside your own genocidal fantasies, which are beyond fucked up, I think you should pick up a map of the region and look at it. Like really look at it.
And if, within 10 secs, you don’t understand just how incredibly dumb your idea is, I think you should immediately get a vasectomy, because that would mean you’re way way way too stupid to ever be allowed to reproduce.
Please, for the sake of the world, snip snip.
I am a member of the United States Navy SSBN force, trained to set condition 1SQ for Strategic Launch of thermonuclear warheads if and when called upon to do so without hesitation. Each missile is capable of carrying in excess of ten multiple independent reentry vehicles, and each warhead is capable of at least ten times the power of Hiroshima.
What do you do for a living?
Yep, you definitely should snip snip. Please, for the sake of world’s gene pool.
Nah, my shipmates already have dozens of children, all slated to enlist or commission in the most powerful nuclear navy in the world when they are eligible. You should’ve seen Family Day on the pier. Our next generation of recruits are already on their way and lining up, our next strategic weapons platforms are already being built and slated for DASO in the next few years. Just earlier this year, we surfaced SSBNs in both Faslane, Scotland and Busan, South Korea, and an SSGN in Perth, Australia. Our SSNs are everywhere lurking beneath the waves, and our Seawolves are listening and stalking wherever they’re needed.
So stand down, civilian. There’s no stopping this war machine.
Holy shit. You’re easily one of the dumbest and most delusional people I’ve ever come across on Lemmy, or even Reddit.
Or, you’re a very committed and very bored troll.
Either way, there’s definitely something special about you. So… congrats?
I come from a military family. You thinking serving makes you better than a civilian is the biggest issue with many who serve. However, most who serve don’t believe this. I live in a very heavy USN area and most don’t think serving makes them smarter or better. Most do it because they like the civilians, not because they hate them. Many also do it for the benefits. If you’re serving to make up for your lack of manhood, you’re doing it for the wrong reasons.
The military answers to the civilians, not the other way around.
Shut up boot, you are either new to the fleet or everyone else in your shop hates you. It’s probably both.
Wow. You probably shouldn’t hold that position if you actually do. Do you know what a nuke is? Do you know what happens to radioactive material after the explosion?
when called upon to do so without hesitation.
We have a few great heroes in our history who saved the world by hesitating when that call was made. If you think you shouldn’t hesitate, you’re bad for the position. You might be told that’s what you’re supposed to do, but it isn’t. You need to ensure the call is legitimate for legitimate reasons before you doom humanity.
People like you worry me. You’re so confident in some bullshit that you think it means anything at all. You clearly have no idea of the repercussions of a single nuclear attack is, let alone what happens if there’s a response.
I know the yield of a Trident II D5 missile’s REVs, yes. I know the entire sequence from receipt of an EAM to reentry and detonation. I’ve read the CJCS instructions and all other governing documentation.
It is not my job or that of any sailor or officer on an SSBN to determine the legitimacy of the reason, only that the EAM is in fact valid and authentic in accordance with procedure and governing documentation. To think otherwise is naive, and got at least one officer kicked off the ship.
My job is simple. When I’m told to man battle stations missile for Strategic Launch, I man battle stations missile for Strategic Launch. When I am ordered to set condition 1SQ by the CO and XO, I set condition 1SQ in accordance with procedure and governing documentation as quickly as possible while remaining within procedural guidance.
I know the yield of a Trident II D5 missile’s REVs, yes. I know the entire sequence from receipt of an EAM to reentry and detonation. I’ve read the CJCS instructions and all other governing documentation.
Then you’re aware of what would happen upon detonation in Gaza. You shouldn’t be dumb enough to wish to use it on them. You really shouldn’t be dumb enough to wish to use it ever, but I know your type.
These are two of the world’s greatest heroes. We’re all here today likely because they disobeyed orders.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Arkhipov
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov
I know you’re supposed to obey any lawful order, but a few have not and saved many for it. There will almost certainly be consequences for it, but any good person would still at least consider the risk to self to save many.
It is not my job or that of any sailor or officer on an SSBN to determine the legitimacy of the reason, only that the EAM is in fact valid and authentic in accordance with procedure and governing documentation. To think otherwise is naive, and got at least one officer kicked off the ship.
The end of this I agree with. You will be kicked off the ship. However, it is your duty to consider if an order is lawful. If you’re asked to kill unarmed civilians, for example, then that’s an unlawful order and can be disobeyed. However, it seems you aren’t in a direct line for the call being made to the launch, so it doesn’t really matter.
At the next Hamas leadership meeting
“Guys our attacks are causing us to lose the support of Internet neckbeards that kind of sort of support us but never did anything at all to show that support”
“Oh no, they’re our most crucial supporters”
“I told you we should have just kept letting the IDF commit war crimes on us with impunity”
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I think you’re trying to simplify things. Both can be shitty but you need to be blind to think this “Hamas” attack is actually Palestinians.
you’d be blind if you think I even said that
No, the Palestinians who are killed are on the hands of Israel, who killed them. The “they did it first” argument didn’t work with your mom when you and your siblings were fighting as kids, what the fuck kind of mental gymnastics makes you think it works when we’re talking about genocide of an entire people? You’re out of your damn mind.
And don’t get gleeful watching Palestinians die, because Israel is about to invade Gaza. That’s house-to-house and room-to-room fighting. Ask the Russians how that went in WW2, or the Americans in Iraq and Afghanistan. The Israelis haven’t done all their dying, they’re just signing up for the slaughter now.
The “they did it first” argument didn’t work with your mom when you and your siblings were fighting as kids
yet that is all you whiny terrorist supporters have been bitching and crying about since the attack (its ok to attack israel cause TheY dId It FiRSt
Hamas has always supported genocide against Jewish Israelis, they have always been extreme. You had sympathy for that? WTF bro!?
sympathy for the plight of the poor bastards being used as pawns by their genocidal terrorist leaders? yeah of course I do. Why would I be in favour of wiping the people out?
You shouldn’t, but you phrased in a way that made it sound like the Palestinian masses are responsible for Hamas.
The masses aren’t interested in instigating war or conflict. Muslims and Jews both could live in peace like they did before the West took over, but that would disrupt the western hegemony. I think people should blame leaders, including leaders outside the Middle East when we are looking for reasons for this never ending and bloody conflict.
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They did I’m sure. This will turn more people against Israel. Israel has all the power, and they continuously kill civilians, sometimes because Hamas is using them but often for no reason. As bad as it is, this is how you fight when you don’t have equal power. You cause an overreaction and capitalize on it. It also shows that Bibi isn’t actually “Mr. Security” like he says.
It was always unclear who was worse because it as always a tit for tat that has been going on for so long. It is such a complex issue.
What is not complex is this terror attack was totally one-sided and came at a time when tensions had been dropping and things seemingly improving. It is clear Hamas has gone too far, and it was just brutal to witness.
Isreal government leadership needs to change, and Hamas needs to be eliminated. Netanyahu has been in power for far too long and its dangerous, and unlikely to resolve and issues they have.
Once he is gone and Hamas is gone, they can perhaps come back to the bargaining table.
Tensions were rising not dropping.
Hamas could probably extrapolate what came next, it’s not exactly new ground. As for your sympathy, it didnt change a damn thing for them in the first place what did they lose?
Entire settlements have been burned to the ground, the population murdered and kidnapped. This will end now, and it will end violently, there is no other way. Hamas is the governing body of the failed autonomous region of gaza and now they will pay the price for starting a war.
Palestinians are going to suffer for what Hamas has started. And doubt very much that the common Palestinian wanted this. However, Israel’s bombing of civilian infrastructures in Gaza is only going to perpetuate this violence.
Nobody wins in this conflict. But, it would be a big win for the region if Nethnyahu and his party were removed and replaced with a peace seeking parliament that could turn things around.
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Click the linked article and read again what you are defending.
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pathetic Bourgeois Humanist tendencies
Calling dibs on this for my new prog band. Nobody else gets to take it. On second thought maybe it’s a better album title.
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Anybody who doesn’t agree with me is a tankie 😤
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What if they took your home? Or your father’s home, your grandfather’s? All your families and neighbors? Then put you in MA open area concentration camp, controlled your food, water, electricity and movement, started destroying your sacred places, etc. Natives killed people for that, too.
So… exactly what they said by saying that they were Native American and living in North America? You’re splaining.
The colonists took their ancestor’s home as well as everyone of their same culture. Decades later, Americans forced Native Americans to move with the Trail of Tears, and then created half-independent reservations for them. They don’t have control over their food nor water nor electricity. And when haven’t Americans defiled sacred native places?
Native Americans could decide to overthrow state governments tomorrow and I could not truly fault them if civilians remained safe. I’m of the mind that the US deeply owes natives reparations and aid. While in the past some tribes did take up arms, others decided to adapt. The Seminoles in Florida don’t want the football team’s native American mascot changed because it is an homage treated with proper respect.
No it’s not the same because this just happened and is still happening. That’s what I’m saying the difference is. While they both matter, there’s a big difference between wrongs that were done to your ancestors, which is what they were talking about, and wrongs that are done to you and family you know personally. You don’t know really know until you’re in that position. So for those tribes that did take up arms, honestly I don’t blame them one bit.
Although obviously I’d probably condemn them if I lived in the same time period and saw them raping people and do the heinous shit Hamas did, from a historical standpoint, I can’t judge the natives’ armed struggle against the forces of colonialism.
I guess I took the view that ancestor vs direct family wrongs ultimately have the same effect, but I actually disagree with that now, thinking about it more. I get what you mean, from personal experience. An institution fucking over your great great grandfather is different than the institution fucking over your father.
“The only way to achieve piece is the end of Islam as a religion and its people as a culture. There can be no other way to achieve peace with the terrorists.” - how you sound right now.
Theres a pretty fucking huge distinction there. Zion != Judaism
That isn’t what the person is saying. They’re saying peace is impossible unless Israel is dissolved and they all leave.
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Not saying you’re wrong, but Israel funded those fanatics so the Palestinian peace movement would lose steam. They wanted this to happen.
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Why would I point the finger at Hamas? It wouldn’t exist if Israel didn’t support it while they were taking out people Israel wanted gone.
I feel the same way about al queda, we created it so we don’t get to complain.
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Officially yes.
Incorrect, netanyahu just didn’t hide it very well, bro there’s so many times where you have documented accounts of Israel letting Hamas attacks happen and then moving to stop them. It’s exactly the same were just father apart.
Hamas could have and would have been exterminated in the 90s if Israel thought it benefitted them very simple, they needed a existential enemy so they made one.
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Israel is the oppressor
I don’t disagree with this line, but they are also the victim. The origins of the nationalist movement for a Jewish state came in light of Russian pogroms killing Jews – a Jewish scholar noted that the only way they could have peace, freedom, and respect seemed to be having a nation of their own.
Israel has absolutely been the oppressor for a lot of the country’s history, but it takes some fucking gall to say Israel is the oppressor after Hamas killed and kidnapped civilians. Your logic in fact would suggest Israel has the moral high ground now. The Hamas attack has killed a ton of innocent people, including children.
Tell me, does Hamas have the right to kill Israeli children because the Israeli government killed Palestinian children? If so, does Israel have the right if we reverse the situation?
What the Israeli government has done to Palestinians is a war crime and an atrocity. That does not mean Israel is the villain and Hamas is the good guy. The opposite isn’t true either. You’re grossly simplifying the conflict and not trying to understand its roots.
It could well be the end of Palestine. I hardly see Netanyahoo stopping until Hamas is completely wiped out. Israel is on a warpath now, and any civilian human shields Hamas tries to put in the way are going to be destroyed as well because Israel DGAF now.
In the end, Israel is going to commit more atrocities than Hamas in total. And by that point there may not be a Palestine left.
I’m worried about how many civilian casualties there will be
from what i know about the Conflict and the current Israeli Government and Military, there will be massive retaliations against the Palestine Populations everywhere ensuring that no Wounds get mended, instead new ones get opened and this conflict continues on forever.
Depends on how far Israel goes. Because no matter how far they go no one will lift a finger to stop them. We will see the hardest of hardliners get a say.
“Settlements.” What a cute word for “genocide.”
“Settlements”. What a cute word for genocide.
“Settlements”. What a cute word for genocide.
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Scoreboard
