- cross-posted to:
- gaming@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- gaming@beehaw.org
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This article speaks right out of my soul, when comparing Starfield and Cyberpunk 2077 2.0.
The quest qualtiy itself is comparable, but the delivery of Starfield makes it solely my job to create immersion (which I can and will do), while Cyberpunk 2077 2.0 grabs me by my balls and drags me into the world.
Spoiler for a small quest in Cyberpunk
When the barkeeper leans slightly forward, looks carefully right and left to make sure no one is listening and then tells me he suspects his wife sees someone else, I smell his parfume and I notice he relaxes his hurting back by stemming his arms onto the desk, because he is doing a double shift. Having Silverhand commenting on every step of the quest and turning it into a noir detctive story, making fun of me, added more immersion to a “follow person, report back”-mission. That I then can just call the quest giver on the phone, as a normal being would feels life like.
A similar quest in Starfield:
I talked to the barkeeper in Starfield from the wrong angle and he only turned his head and it was very uncanny valley, because over the whole conversation I was questioning how he can still talk with a broken neck.Every Starfield quest:
Questgiver: “Hello, I don’t know you stranger, and I don’t trust outsiders. Can I help you? Oh, you want a quest? This evil company in Neon does bad shit and I need you to inject this virus and make sure it doesn’t get back to me. Also, the mayor here is evil AF. Don’t say that out loud, he has ears everywhere. I trust you stranger with my life. Have 8000 creds for picking up my mail, and 2000 creds and a unique purple gun for blowing up half of the city.”
I talked to the barkeeper in Starfield from the wrong angle and he only turned his head and it was very uncanny valley, because over the whole conversation I was questioning how he can still talk with a broken neck.
They might have fixed it by now but a certain little fortune teller has a very similar issue in an elevator in cyberpunk.
For a fortune teller, that’s a feature
After helping him out I had a certain Ripperdoc showing which arm he operates with by raising it. Only his arm rotated backwards as if his elbow was turned around 180 degrees, arm clipping through his biceps.
But at least in Cyberpunk I’ve got the feeling that a bug like this is an honest oversight, whereas Starfield gives me the feeling that Creation Engine (2.0 these days?) should have have been killed, burned and buried after Skyrim. Each game since (and including) Oblivion I’ve felt like I’m looking at limitations I already noticed in the previous game built with Creation Engine or NetImmerse/GameBryo.
I haven’t played starfield and don’t intend to but I played cyberpunk on launch thanks to a covid scare and even on launch it was a good game to me. Had it’s problems but I got 300 hours out of it before the year ended.
This is such a weird take because Cyberpunk’s storytelling was a series of Grand Theft Auto phone calls occasionally interspersed with “UR DYING V, I’M KEANU REEVES AND IM GONNA TAKE UR BODY LOL”. There wasn’t anything interesting about Cyberpunk’s storytelling. I believe a Bethesda game could be more boring than that, but it doesn’t retroactively make Cyberpunk great as a result.
Felt the same way about it. The plot device of the character potentially becoming Keanu really broke all motivation for me. Why would I complete the main plot if each mission made the infestation worse? I made this character, why would I be interested in watching them become someone else’s Gary Stue? I wanted to be my Gary, not theirs.
The story would have been much improved by dropping Johnny
MnemonicSilverhands and instead having the partner, whose name escapes me because I only got to know him through 2 missions and a 30 second montage of us getting to know each other, as the ride along personality. Instead of him taking you over, he’s fading away and you have to save him.Throw in a heroic sacrifice from your semi AI partner at the end or a plot twist him into a villain Tyler Durdening your ass while you sleep and it could have been something magical.
The theme of cyberpunk is that you have a literal anti corp terrorist in your head, and how that is affecting V’s psyche. Like there are points in the game where you choose some dialogue options and the game is like “is that V’s opinion or Johnny’s”.
I think they should have not played up the “if left unchecked, he’s going to kill you” sense of urgency bit though. But basically every open world game has the same problem with how do you reconcile having an open world, but also have a plot that needs moved forward. Like they can’t just outright game over you if you just do side quests for a in-game week or so.
That’s where starfield actually gets it right. You aren’t the “chosen one”, you are just a guy. The main plot of the game has no sense of urgency, because it’s fully driven by how much you dig into the artifact mystery. Any one in constellation could be doing the same things you are doing, and getting the powers and finding more artifacts, they all have seen the same visions you have when they first touched one. Again, you aren’t special.
That was ainiale my issue with the game. You’ve got a week to live, now go have fun doing side missions
It blows my mind that people praise cyberpunk. They skipped straight past the character building and introduction to the city and its characters with a fucking 30 second cutscene, and then you just start getting calls from people you’ve never met like they know you. It didn’t interest me at all.
This comment reads like a summary of every click bait vlog title from 2020.
Ah so they didn’t just blow past the city and character introductions with a cutscene and then you start getting calls from fixers you don’t know, who talk to you like you have an existing relationship?
Tell me more about the incredible storyline that introduced you to the city and its inhabitants at the start
Mine was “car chase for a lizard” then the guy I just met dies, who was apparently my best friend because we played 2 missions together
You’re right.
V, someone in their twenties, maybe early thirties, had no life, friends, or business acquaintances or knowledge of the city before the player comes into the story.
I suppose the game should have been 25 hours longer so you could have a sit down meeting with each fixer, get to know them, maybe have some tea with them. Maybe a walking tour of Night City so that everything is spelled out for you would help?
I mean, yeah, that’s literally how the story went, V was new to the city and had never been there before.
Yes, most games, films, books, with a story do introduce you to the characters.
People spent 8 years making Cyberpunk their entire personality. Of course they are going to make it seem like the best thing since stuffed crust pizza.
That’s weird because I saw more people make hating CP77 their personality after it launched.
Perhaps because they made a disappointing game and people were disappointed. They sure did spend A LOT on marketing though
See, here’s one now.
Ah not liking something makes me the bad guy because apparently it’s my whole personality.
Nope. Just talking about something in the thread where there’s a discussion about it. Happens to be I agree with many others that it was an overhead disappointment propped up by marketing money.
Starfield is ancient according to the developers, they’ve been working on it for 25 years
If this is work of 25 years, it’s honestly quite sad.
It’s always like this.
When you work on something for longer than 5 years, the tech and expectations from competing games will run ahead of you.
And you can’t just rewrite the story and engine and map and characters every time you get delayed.
So you should just shoot every AAA project that lags more than 5 years on the spot. It’s way too late for it at that time. And start from market analysis, not just rewriting everything in the ‘current engine and style’.
Or don’t use an engine that was already over 5 years out of date when you started the project.
Hey, Bethesda is already on life support, no need to punch down
Removed by mod
They’re good at that. I remember trying Skyrim when it was new and we all didn’t know there would be like 15 rereleases and it felt weirdly dated. I couldn’t really put my finger on why, it just felt old.
It felt like Oblivion reskin.
And Oblivion felt basically like Morrowind reskin with more polygons…
And less rpg :(
Sadly yes. Morrowind was Bethesda’s peak gaming moment tbh.
I absolutely don’t get why Bethesda sold Starfield as a “new generation rpg”. It’s nothing but an archaic game with old mechanics. Don’t get me wrong, I’m really enjoying my time on the game so far (30/40h).
I think what starfield is missing is full body animations that go along with conversations, seeing NPCs pick stuff up or pace around while talking and communicating through body language
Both are behind Baldurs Gate if we’re making comparisons.
Mass Effect and Dragon Age makes Cyberpunks story telling feel ancient as well in my very firm opinion.
You’re welcome to your opinion but those are some old games. Are you sure it’s better or is it nostalgia?
I just replayed DAO last year. It holds up in a way Cyberpunk didn’t manage on its first play through. The rest of the series is a trash fire though. Mass Effect is forgettable outside of the excellent world building of the first game.
Yeah nobody knew how to tell stories 10 years ago, it’s only thanks to new storytelling technology that cyberpunk can tell such a boring story with barely any variations. (YOUR BACKGROUND WILL SHAPE YOUR STORY! lol)
Barely any variations? Did you even finish the game?
There’s several significantly different paths you can wind up going down in the end. Like, incredibly different endings. And your actions do influence how those endings all play out, too.
I hear this argument from people who played the background prologues and thought those were the major decisions in Cyberpunk. Mild spoiler alert to anyone who hasn’t played: they are essentially short tutorials, not major storylines.
I didn’t say anything like that. I’m asking you if you’re judging newer games against your nostalgic view of how good those games were. But you’re weirdly defensive about it so go jerk off to female Shepherd and come back with that post nut clarifty
I am not the same person
mass effect 3 story was shit
We got like 3 colors
I’ve been seeing a ton of cyberpunk ads since starfield was released just shitting on starfield and talking up cyberpunk. This seems like a smear campaign. Frankly if your a fan of sci Fi and video games. You should probably try both when they’re on sale.
Cyberpunk put ALL their money into marketing, and they’re heavily investor-pressured into showing the game is better received than it actually is. I still firmly believe that a large percentage of the praise is astroturfing. Especially when they downvote everything negative without a response
Ok here’s a response. I pirated cyberpunk on release fully expecting it to be buggy. I enjoyed bits of it at the time but I stopped because it was too buggy and unpolished.
This is CD Project Red’s track record, but somehow everyone forgot about how bad Witcher 3 was. I expected this 2.0 update eventually and I’m glad they started another marketing push, so that I can know it’s time for the game to actually be ‘done’. Obviously they paid streamers to show the game, that’s no secret. But also it looks genuinely better, just like Witcher 3. So I’ll probably actually buy it next time it goes on sale, after pirating it to see if it’s worth it now.
Meanwhile Starfield looks exactly like the milktoast Skyrim reskin I expected it to be, with nothing really standing out. Bethesda has been slowly comodifying their games since Morrowind -> Oblivion then followed an obvious template since Skyrim. It really shows in their boring designs.
Cyberpunk was trying to do too much, but Starfield isn’t doing enough.
Fwiw it’s ‘milquetoast’
Fair point about starfield, I haven’t played it yet but have heard many negative things.
But your point about cyberpunk, in response to me is “It was too buggy to enjoy on release and I haven’t played the late, updated version” , but you’re glad it’s being marketed on every platform?
That doesn’t do it any favours 😅
I pirated it. It worked, I didn’t run into any bugs like 1.0, and I had fun, on my steam deck no less. I didn’t finish and I might go back to it at some point, but that doesn’t say as much for the game as it does my attention span. I rarely finish games. I’d go as far as to recommend it now based on what I played.
I maintain that I’m glad they were able to fix it and market the improvements earnestly. They made good on their initially bad project, and that should be applauded.
well, yeah. It’s a Bethesda game, of course their storytelling is bland af
I know everyone says it, but FUCK they should let Obsidian do the writing, and they need to drop that ancient game engine. Microsoft has probably killed this company.
Fallout: New Vegas had some of their best story telling. The Outer Worlds had awesome lore too. I’m really surprised they didn’t bring them along.
Bethesda has put themselves in an awkward spot by promoting niche and deep RPG mechanics for so long, and then becoming such a AAA developer with entire keynotes dedicated to previewing them that they no longer want to risk making deeper complex mechanics because they’re scared of “confusing” the base audience.
I want to say they need to take Starfield as a wakeup call, in comparison to games like BG3. But they don’t need to, because Gamepass numbers are practically imaginary sales numbers, and we’re just going to hear about how well it sold for the next half-decade.
Lemon juice makes oranges seem sweet.
Neither Cyberpunk nor Starfield are rushing to win any awards for their writing. I’m playing the expansion for Cyberpunk at the moment and it’s average at best.
Starfield bad. Cyberpunk good
Soyberpunk vs Shartfield is a really hard argument.
Thank you for being this obvious.
