• dingleberry@discuss.tchncs.de
    189·
    1 year ago

    Let’s not start the cult of /r/nofap here. And no, you are not suddenly more charismatic and confident. You are just not reeking of cum all the time, something achievable with regular showers as well.

  • June@lemm.ee
    102·
    1 year ago

    If it just takes a month to break, it’s not an addiction. It’s a habit.

    Really hate the way that the word addiction is watered down by people who just look at porn a lot.

    • DigitalDilemma@lemmy.ml
      22·
      1 year ago

      I’d like to agree with you, but I don’t think there are fixed periods where stopping something turns it from being addiction into habit.

      Addiction is an inability to stop using a substance or engaging in a behavior even though it may cause psychological or physical harm.

      I think porn can come within that definition, just as much as smoking or drinking can be called a habit.

      • June@lemm.ee
        9·
        1 year ago

        And I’m saying that what’s described in the OP is a habit, not an addiction.

        ‘Addiction’ is very overused when it comes to porn because people don’t have any concept of what addiction actually is. Half the time the harm doesn’t come from looking at porn, it comes from the purity culture that we’re inundated with in western society. Being abused by puritanical ideology does not make looking at porn an addiction. Neither does having a strong sex drive that makes us want to engage with sexual content.

        • CheeseBread@lemmy.ml
          7·
          1 year ago

          Porn addiction is real, and watching porn can have more harm than just puritanical bullshit. Most people that I’ve watched looking at porn don’t just find a video a watch it start to finish. They watch multiple videos, fast forwarding to their favorite parts. Delayed gratification is good for you. Also, porn doesn’t accurately depict what sex is like. It can give you fucked up expectations of what sex should be.

          If you watch so much porn that you can’t have an orgasm without watching it, if you are only aroused by porn that can’t exist in real life, if you stop having sex with a partner to instead only masturbate to porn, if you find yourself constantly watching porn even at inappropriate times, if the amount of porn you watch decreases your quality of life… That’s addiction.

          I think that masturbating is healthy and good for human sexuality, but I think a lot of people could benefit from masturbating differently. Try reading or using your imagination or even just masturbating meditatively, focusing on sensations.

          • June@lemm.ee
            3·
            1 year ago

            Never said porn addiction isn’t real. I’m saying it’s less common than people think and that most people who say they’re addicted to porn aren’t.

        • hex@programming.dev
          1·
          1 year ago

          Dude porn addiction is such a real thing. The damage comes in your relationship. Not being able to stop watching porn causes all kinds of issues in your day to day life including fatigue and erectile issues.

          • June@lemm.ee
            3·
            1 year ago

            Never said it wasn’t a real thing. Said most people who say they’re ‘addicted’ aren’t.

      • June@lemm.ee
        6·
        1 year ago

        And I’m saying that what’s described in the OP is a habit, not an addiction.

        ‘Addiction’ is very overused when it comes to porn because people don’t have any concept of what addiction actually is. Half the time the harm doesn’t come from looking at porn, it comes from the purity culture that we’re inundated with in western society. Being abused by puritanical ideology does not make looking at porn an addiction. Neither does having a strong sex drive that makes us want to engage with sexual content.

    • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
      3·
      1 year ago

      Didn’t take me more than a month to quit smoking, is that just a habit rather than a real addiction in your eyes?

      You’re going to have a tough time arguing that compulsive behavior that the individual has difficulty stopping and often performs when they otherwise didn’t intend to isn’t addiction, just because they found a way to stop.

      • June@lemm.ee
        2·
        1 year ago

        Again, I’m not saying porn addiction doesn’t exist.

        I’m saying that the use of ‘addiction’ with porn is extremely overused and most people who claim to be addicted aren’t.

        And for what it’s worth, I quit smoking after three years of up to 2 packs a day in a single day. Just made the decision and never craved them again. Every body handles substance dependencies differently. But porn addiction is different and the comparison is apples and oranges.

        • Bluefruit@lemmy.world
          27·
          1 year ago

          I’m glad you mentioned reasonable levels because like with anything, it can be harmful if done too often.

            • Bluefruit@lemmy.world
              22·
              1 year ago

              Great question.

              Essentially if its not interfering with your life in a meaningful way, you’re fine.

              If it causes you to miss work or if you’re unable to wait until you get home and end up doing it somewhere its not acceptable, then its an issue.

              Or not being able to stop or reduce the frequency can also mean its an issue.

              However, rather than listen to some nobody in the internet, you’d want to consult a medical professional.

              • psycho_driver@lemmy.world
                2·
                1 year ago

                If it causes you to miss work or if you’re unable to wait until you get home and end up doing it somewhere its not acceptable, then its an issue.

                I remember a story about some low level politician pulling off into the parking lot of a preschool to rub one out. That probably would be a good example of this.

            • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
              3·
              1 year ago

              21 times a month should be good enough.

              More shouldn’t be a problem either, since once every day reduces the chance of prostate cancer by 36%

            • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
              3·
              1 year ago

              Are you numb, bleeding, sore or neglecting other activities like friends, family or your job?

              You’re probably fine. Whole area’s kinda built to do that pretty regularly. So same rules as exercise.

          • SnipingNinja@slrpnk.net
            3·
            1 year ago

            Is there an actual specific reasonable interval or does it vary person to person (of course putting aside any specific issues like muscle injury in the area for an example)

            • Bluefruit@lemmy.world
              3·
              1 year ago

              It does vary from person to person. Whats reasonable for you may not be reasonable for others. Libido as well as age is gonna be a factor. Some people do it multiple times a day and others are a couple times a week.

              Again as long as its not hurting you or others, go for it man. Like others in this thread mentioned, in moderation, its a healthy thing to do.

        • lyam23@lemmy.world
          3·
          1 year ago

          I’m not taking a side, but unless there’s some new evidence, virtually every study I’ve seen is filled with little to no evidence this is true and sums up with something to the effect of ‘results uncertain, more research needed’.

    • mycatiskai@lemmy.one
      7·
      1 year ago

      There haven’t been any studies to conclusively prove that this is the case but some correlation shows that nocturnal emmisions are lower in men who masturbate more. Probably more than likely this guy would have nutted in his sleep during that month of no fap.

        • dlrht@lemm.ee
          4·
          1 year ago

          That citation abstract very clearly says “could link” prostate cancer and biological processes and “may lower” prostate cancer risk, it’s definitely not as clear cut as you’re making it sound. The paper itself isn’t even confident about the statements it’s making

  • Skkorm@lemmy.world
    37·
    1 year ago

    Porn addiction isn’t a thing. People with addictive personalities always out here trying to blame whatever they are hyperfocusing on, instead of getting some therapy and addressing their neurodivergency.

    • Afghaniscran@feddit.uk
      19·
      1 year ago

      I think I’m confused here. Would it not be true that porn addiction is a thing, just that porn isn’t the root cause of it? Like, addictive personalities result in addictions but they have to be addicted to something and that addiction is the {insert vice here} addiction.

      Gambling addiction, porn addictions, gaming addictions etc. Just because the personality is the cause I thought it would still be helpful to get them away from whatever they hyperfocus on in order to start working of the addictive traits.

      • arin@lemmy.worldEnglish
        4·
        1 year ago

        I have a friend who isn’t addicted to cigarettes and only smokes with buddies but never alone or with me. And me who isn’t addicted to alcohol but only drinks if really good friends want to go out and get a bit (been years now but used to be months)

        • qAzi@lemm.ee
          7·
          1 year ago

          yea exactly then that’s not an addiction, but if one does it compulsively then it is

        • Afghaniscran@feddit.uk
          5·
          1 year ago

          I would say that’s not addiction at all, that’s just partaking in things that aren’t good for you in a social setting. Addiction is when it takes over your life isn’t it?

          Genuine question, it’s hard to convey curiosity over sarcasm on the internet.

          • arin@lemmy.worldEnglish
            1·
            1 year ago

            I’m using a few real examples but we are a tiny minority compared to most of our other friends who can’t stop one or the other

    • TheBlue22
      8·
      1 year ago

      True. There is no chemical part of porn itself to make it “addictive.” Orgasm just releases dopamine that feels good.

      If you are addicted to meth, it’s not easy to give it up because you are chemically addicted to it.

      If you are “addicted” to porn, it’s moderately easy to give up, if you have self control

      • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
        8·
        1 year ago

        But you just stated yourself, porn, which leads to an orgasm usually, leads to dopamine release.

        Dopamine release feels good.

        Big dumb animal brain associates porn with feeling good.

        Brain wants to feel good, brain watches porn.

        We’re all animals, we’re all conditioned. If you want to say technically there’s no addiction mechanism for porn itself, sure whatever, but that’s not actually very useful is it? Just because the addictive (replace it with ‘conditioned to seek’ if you want) bit is a little downstream from the porn itself doesn’t mean the porn itself isn’t the problem.

        Also, if self control was so fuckin easy, you wouldn’t have anyone with any real problems, they’d just self control them all into solved.

        • TheBlue22
          3·
          1 year ago

          I never said self-control itself is easy, giving up watching porn once you have it, is.

          You don’t have withdrawal symptoms from not jacking off unless you count craving to masturbate as one. The craving is felt by literary anyone who gets horny.

          Drugs, on the other hand, can have very severe withdrawal symptoms that require the person to seek help and cure his addiction.

          Not to mention, you get dopamine from many things. If we treat all of them as severely as actual addictions, the word itself just loses all its meaning.

          • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
            2·
            1 year ago

            Withdrawal symptoms aren’t the only thing that signifies an addiction. A very quick look at the definition includes “the condition of being habitually occupied with or involved in something.” On the strictest definition level, you’re just wrong.

            That’s not a super useful metric, though, so in addition to those, almost any real discussion of addiction includea a requirement for it to be negatively impactful to your life. Sure, physiologically addictive substances obviously have a negative impact on your life. It’s pretty clear that there are many ways things that aren’t physiologically addictive, when used habitually, can cause issues.

            Further, not all physiological addictions require professional or medical intervention, or have you never heard of someone quitting smoking cold turkey?

            • TheBlue22
              1·
              1 year ago

              I did and it usually takes way more than jusf self control to quit it. Some people are just built different.

              What I was trying to show by mentioning withdrawal symptoms that masturbation does not change physicochemical make up. All it does is release dopamine (hell, not even masturbation, the orgasm itself), and its not the only activity that does that. Eating, sports, donating, receiving compliments… all of those give you dopamine.

              Actual addictions change you inside, sometimes severely enough that you need professional help.

              I just don’t think its useful to call both of these an addicion, given how different in nature they both are. I think there should be a difference between an addiction and a habit. But thats just my opinion and I don’t force anyone to agree with it

              • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
                1·
                1 year ago

                You’re sure making a lot of bold, definitive statements for “that’s just my opinion bro!” And what I’m trying to say is that, fundamentally, you’re wrong. Further, it’s actually a bit dangerous to say to someone struggling with a very real thing that they just need to have some self control. Don’t rub one out for a week! You’ll be fine!

                Psychological addictions have a lot of the same impacts on your life as physiological ones. People employ addiction-seeking behaviors to get what they want. It can be INCREDIBLY difficult to stop. Often times you can’t without psychological help or group support. Hell, psychological addictions can even come with withdrawal symptoms.

                All things point towards this being an addiction. What do you lose by extending the empathy towards these people struggling that you do to those struggling with other addictions? It’s more convenient, I suppose, to say that the problem and solution all rest within the other person’s head, nevermind that what’s inside someone’s head is literally their entire existence.

                Gratz on quitting smoking, though, any addiction is hard to kick.

      • rhombus@sh.itjust.works
        6·
        1 year ago

        There are two kinds of addiction, physiological and psychological. Addictive substances are physiologically addictive because of how the effect they have on the brain and body, but that doesn’t mean you can’t form a physiological dependence on something and have similar issues not “using”.

        • TheBlue22
          1·
          1 year ago

          You will not have withdrawal effects from not jacking off. Urge to do it is not a withdrawal effect and can be overcome with self-control. With actual withdrawal symptoms, they can be extremely severe in some cases, even deadly. If you are addicted to drugs, you need to seek psychological help to overcome it, not with porn addiction

    • Kafkacious@lemmy.world
      6·
      1 year ago

      This is a refreshing comment thread compared to reddit these days. You just get shouted at saying something like this. There are chemically addictive things and then there are things that are addictive and habit forming because they are fun. Totally separate things. One takes self control, one takes outside help.

      Accurrate comic though minus the being able to go over a week part!

        • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
          1·
          1 year ago

          Those addictions are only addictive because of underlying issues.

          Fix those issues, and you will not be addicted anymore.

          • idiomaddict@feddit.de
            1·
            1 year ago

            Those issues are much harder to solve and play a much greater role in “hard addictions” than chemical dependency does.

      • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
        3·
        1 year ago

        The problem is, that line of thought isn’t very useful conditioning is a thing very much so, and you can absolutely be addicted to the dopamine release. Just because it’s downstream doesn’t mean the porn isn’t the ultimate addictor.

        You can also self control your way out of addictive substances like nicotine. Only a scant few need medical intervention. Unless you’re going to tell me heroin and alcohol are the only actually addictive substances that exiat. It’s INCREDIBLY reductive to reduce anything that doesn’t have a specific chemical addiction mechanism to “not an addiction get help lol”. Yes, get help. Probably from these things called addiction therapists, that deal with things like porn addiction and gambling addiction.

    • Sodis@feddit.de
      24·
      1 year ago

      The masturbation definitely is not the problem, the porn might be. It just gives a wrong picture of intimacy and sex to inexperienced teenagers.

      • DigitalDilemma@lemmy.ml
        10·
        1 year ago

        And some frankly bonkers ideas about what real sex is like.

        But when I think about my youth in pre-internet days, when you relied on a trucker flinging his jazz mag into the bushes and being lucky enough to find it before the slugs, I’m not sure learning about real sex was any easier then.

    • pixeltree@lemmy.world
      12·
      1 year ago

      Even if you don’t call it an addiction, I still consume an unhealthy amount of porn imo. I worry that I wouldn’t be able to get it up for a real person, not that it matters cause I’m too mentally screwed up to try hooking up or dating.

      • Kage520@lemmy.world
        9·
        1 year ago

        Start slow by starting to masturbate before turning on porn, remembering the last porn you watched. Slowly increase the amount of time before turning on porn. Then over time eventually you might be able to get off entirely by remembering what you’ve seen before. You can use that skill any time when with someone.

        • pixeltree@lemmy.world
          5·
          1 year ago

          Bruh I haven’t been brainwashed by religious messaging, I have an archive of like 20 gbs of super niche fetish shit because I’ve essentially over the past decade shifted what I consider normal way into the deep end. I’m not saying that porn addiction is a thing, just saying that overconsumption can still be a problem.

        • Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
          1·
          1 year ago

          Surprisingly, porn use has damages outside of just puritanical BS taboo! Instant gratification, a decrease in drive to meet your needs in other ways, unhealthy associations with sex (because that actually exists outside of puritanical views, believe it or not), some pretty gnarly effects around the whole dopamine release and reward seeking thing…

        • Kornblumenratte@feddit.de
          7·
          1 year ago

          You mean, you haven’t met someone with a mental addiction yet.

          But — you are technically correct, indeed.

          In ICD 10 the disorders that are commonly regarded as mental addictions are classified not as addiction, but as eating disorders, habit and impulse disorders and disorders of sexual preference. Don’t know whether I missed any.

          BTW, Substance-related addiction is classified as mental and behaviour disorder due to psychoactive use. So, technically, “addiction” does not exist at all.

            • Kornblumenratte@feddit.de
              2·
              1 year ago

              an addiction requires a physical component.

              If this is your definition of addiction, a “mental addiction” cannot exist. I am happy to concede I am wrong and improve my knowledge if you would be so kind to point me to sources prooving this is the general accepted definition of the word.

              Masturbation and porn use doesn’t fall into that model at all; the consequences of not masturbating is that you don’t feel something pleasant, not that things start hurting.

              Well – no. Not for all people. While “blue balls” are a myth, bad mood, emotional instability and even aching genitals are at least for some people consequences of sex withdrawal. Craving does exist as well.

              It’s simply not in the same category as alcoholism, or addiction to nicotine, opiates, etc.

              That’s true.

              If you speak to a psychologist that is trained in and specializes in sexual disorders–again, not one that’s using a religious/spiritual approach, but one that’s evidence-based–you are unlikely to find anyone that regards it as a legitimate disorder

              Well — actually I haven’t met any psychotherapist who doubts that there are people with non-substance related addictions. I have no experience with sexual addiction myself – only met a couple of patients who claimed to have overcome it – but I did work with patients with eating disorders, which we viewed and treated as addiction, and with pathological gambling, which is viewed as an addiction as well.

              Ok – so far to the existence of “mental addiction”.

              Regarding “porn addiction”, I agree, that a habit has to meet the criteria for addiction. So I agree someone isn’t addicted to masturbation/porn

              unless you’re doing things like masturbating at your desk at work 3-4 times/day, or needing to pull your car over on the way to work to compulsively masturbate.