Me posting this meme with the full knowledge that it might make it to “All” and generate a shitshow of a comment section
This community is just popular enough to make it to /all, but not popular enough to drown out all the liberals/tankies that come here.
I phrased this horribly sorry
Are you though?
Am I what?
Edit: Oh, you mean if I am sorry, well, I’m sorry I can’t phrase it properly.
posting anti-tankie and anti-electoralism stuff in an Anarchism comm is one of the easiest way to generate infinite salt.
You’re my hero
Beautiful.
It did. Be proud
Congratulations?
This instance has made me realize that I am an anarchist. What a strange world… No regrets, thank you guys.
Hell yeah welcome to the struggle.
Just remember you don’t need to agree with every mainstream anarchist take to call yourself an anarchist. That’s the best part and one of many things that set this movement a cut above other leftist movements.
the fediverse is inherently propaganda for the possibility of anarchism
Isn’t one of the main lemmy devs a staunch communist?
Yeah, but that doesn’t mean is the difect intention or that it has to be enforced we can find our own meaning.
Yes, unfortunately this is why the software itself enforces such rigid hierarchies.
Right-out tankie. But then broken clocks are right twice a day.
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We are happy to have you! 🥰 There is an anarchist book i highly recommend. You can read all of it or just pick sections you find interesting.
People ask “how can anarchism work? Don’t we need a boss?” Or “How would things be managed?”. And this book explains it very well :)
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works
It’s even available in audiobook form by audible anarchism
I just don’t think we’re meant to live in large numbers tbh.
You take the average opinion of 200 million people, apply it to everyone, and nobody will be happy with it.
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Please don’t take this the wrong way, what do Anarchists do irl that is making a difference? From what I see, most of the posting is leftist views, but what seperates them from other left leaning groups aside from viewpoints?
Prefiguration.
The idea of resisting domination by living outside it. Creating your own grassroots community structures without state or corporate control.
A focus on organizing in horizontal power structures.
A focus on direct action over electoralism?
Personally, I help run a makerspace. In fact, I had been doing that for years before calling myself an anarchist; seeing how things work in a volunteer community makerspace is what made me think that maybe, just maybe, we actually can run society in an anarchist way. Yeah, things are a little messy there sometimes, but in the end, I think we do get the stuff done that needs to get done. People are a little less dependent on a capitalist system because of it, and learn a little more to rely on their local community.
Politically, I tend to work alongside a lot of socialists. Anything that takes us towards improving unions and mutual aid is good for me. Partially, this is also because anarchist groups are notoriously inconsequential. It’s a lot of “I’ll get this done, right after I have this joint”. Socialists are more like “lets get this done, then have an edible”. One of these is more productive than the other.
You wouldn’t happen to have any resources regarding how to run a community makerspace, would you?
Nothing in particular, but I’m happy to answer questions. Getting to know other community makerspaces in the region is a good idea. Everyone was winging it, but figured it out.
I might be wrong but I feel that anarchy is on slightly different axis (like x vs y) than simple left/right divide, but definitively more to the left than right. Different means, similar goals?
I yield to more experienced anarchists here for explanation, I’m just learning to be one!
However, I remember one trip with my dad when I was a teen. We were talking, I can’t remember about what exactly, him exclaiming “You must be some kind of anarchist!” to summarize my own worldview stuck with me to this day.
When I was applying to this instance, this has somehow resonated with me
https://wiki.dbzer0.com/divisions-by-zero/the-anarchist-code-of-conduct/
Am I an anarchist or just a sane reasonable person? I have some reading to do… but I have the gut feeling.
I think the left/right divide is pretty bullshit, it gets rid of a lot of nuance in any political discussion.
Am I an anarchist
I recommend you read: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/david-graeber-are-you-an-anarchist-the-answer-may-surprise-you
Agreed. Even the political compass is just an imperfect model.
I think a better model is a connected graph. A socialist advocating for unions and an anarcho-syndcalist are going to have a direct connection. So does an ancap and a christian advocating the prosperity gospel. But you’ll have to go through a lot of steps in the graph to connect ancaps and anarcho-syndcalists, because as we all know, the two have nothing to do with each other.
Same here I beliving in Anarchy more as a fight to concentration of power which concecuences are in full display in any news outlet. I’m also starting to feel kinda inclined to solarpunk.
I’d be an anarchist, but I think anarchism would only work if the world is far more connected than we are today. Anarchist communities developed organically because their environments are close to each other, facilitating cultural exchange and then evolving into a converging culture where people in the communities eventually “think alike”. It is like with Fremens in Dune. The entire ethnic group inhabit the entire planet, but their lines of communications are pretty reliable and fast, so in that sense the world of Fremen is “small”, allowing for an organic development of an anarchist culture by themselves.
Tankies: handing out “genocide denial” bans for calling Ukraine a genocide.
You can simultaneously condemn the invasion of Ukraine and understand that false claims of genocide are harmful against people suffering genocide
Russia has been credibly accused off displacing local populations, seizing homes, mass torture and sexual violence against civilians and abduction of children in occupied territories. There are numerous examples of Russian politicians stating openly that they seek to exterminate Ukrainian identity.
The only argument that Russia is not engaging in large scale genocide is that Ukraine has prevented them from doing so by force.
None of the instances of what you’re claiming have been disproportionate compared to any modern conflict if you actually run the numbers, and if you compare to western-backed wars such as the invasion of Iraq, the numbers pale in comparison. War is horrifying, and you can heavily criticise the invasion of Ukraine, but calling it a genocide simply doesn’t hold when you look at the numbers.
the numbers don’t matter nearly as much as the intent.
“merely” planning a murder is illegal, same with genocide.
there’s this weird idea that an event can only ever be a genocide after all the victims have died. that’s not true, and never has been.
the numbers don’t matter nearly as much as the intent
But how do you judge intent without numbers? I do believe the US didn’t have a genocidal intent in the invasion of Iraq, and didn’t commit genocide, but the ratio of civilians to military who died is disproportionately high compared to that of Ukraine invasion by Russia. I’m sure you can go to fox news of 2003 and find right wing talking heads, journalists and politicians talking of all Iraqi as terrorists to be eliminated. You can do the same for some deranged Russian nationalist politicians and journalists. How, other than numerically and by policy, can you judge the intent? I can determine Israel is enacting genocide against Palestinians because of the horrendous murder rates of civilians, including through forced starvation and besiegement, because of indiscriminate bombing against civilian infrastructure (which, like it or not, is rare in the invasion of Ukraine in comparison with even the invasion of Iraq), etc.
Your comment being a good example of tankies denying Ukrainian genocide.
Why do you bring up tankies? I’m not talking about any communist state, I’m talking about the proto-fascist, contemporary Russian republic, and explicitly said you can condemn it.
Putin kills Ukrainian civilians, not because of their religion or genetics or culture but to terrorise them into submission so that they encourage their military to give up so that he gets to plunder their land and resources.
This is very different to the universally accepted definition of genocide as applies to The Holocaust, Rwanda, Cambodia.
Ireland is trying to get the ICJ to broaden the UN definition of genocide to include both the Ukraine and Gaza tragedies.
Don’t even have to be an anarchist, just have to have at least partial hearing and/or vision.
Not even. I’m deaf and have terrible vision. In fact I was functionally blind for 8 months. And I can still see it!
Okay, have to have at least partial use of at least one sense.
So basically not be in a deep coma? Because I don’t think there is a disability where you losing touch hearing sight and smell.
I was going to suggest “be awake” and then realised I had accidentally re-invented the term “woke”
You’d have to get a bunch of ailments all at once. Deep coma is much simpler. Anyways, very obvious, most of us only, at most lack 1 or 2 senses. There’s no excuses for any of us to not “see” any of this.
You don’t even need a brain. Just a heart.
As expected, tankies came out in drove to whitewash Uyghur genocide 😂
There are far too many complaints and eyewitness to hide the grievances from the Uyghurs and CCP’s mistreatment of them.
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The UN, where the CCP has veto powers?
China doesn’t have veto power over the UN Human Rights Council, which voted to reject debating this any further, over 2½ years ago: https://xcancel.com/un_hrc/status/1578003299827171330
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ok done
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Is this an actually good faith inquiry? Are you that deep in the kool aid?
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I’m just a bit incredulous that you actually think this argument would be convincing to anyone.
You don’t see any reason why dictators of Muslim countries might want to say nice things about China despite obvious abuses against the Uighurs?
I’ve got to log off but if no one has answered you more seriously later I’ll give it a go.
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Yeah I mean obviously lol I never said they’re not influenced by the US. The point is statements and policies by corrupt autocrats have no bearing the real situation on the ground. That’s not evidence, it’s politics. They will just say whatever is in their best interest regardless of the truth.
Your point about the US influence regarding Palestine is hilariously misinformed because they literally do that. That’s why none of these countries have done anything about Palestine. The only ones who have taken concrete actions are those that are basically already engaged in proxy wars with the west, such as Iran or the Houthis. Others like the Saudis, the new Syrian government and Egypt just want this issue to go away. That’s why Egypt is in the process of blocking the Gaza caravan as we speak. These autocrats don’t even care about their own people, let alone foreigners thousands of miles away.
Also, there are reasons the geopolitics favor the Chinese point of view on the Uighur issue. The CPC is obviously going to care a lot more about this issue than the US does because it’s a domestic security issue. For the US it’s just a way to tarnish China’s image, which of course they want to do, but it’s not a top priority. Furthermore, the ruling class is biased towards stability. They just want to keep exploiting people and living opulent lives in peace. They’re much more likely to try to ignore or diminish these problems than actually try to solve them because that risks pissing people off which could be dangerous for them. Finally, these countries also love to oppress their own people, so they’d just as soon everyone stop talking about human rights since that would obviously be to their benefit. Talking about prison camps in another country makes them more vulnerable to looking hypocritical when they engage in domestic repression.
And finally, there’s just abundant and overwhelming evidence of human rights abuses that don’t come from the US government, which yea, is obviously dishonest. The camps can be seen in satellite imagery, and the CPC acknowledges they exist but bizarrely claim that it’s good to force huge numbers of people into concentration camps. That’s such an unserious response that I don’t feel it’s necessary to respond to.
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I’m once again asking liberals to join xiaohongshu and see the uighur culture being celebrated openly. Crossnational meetups with turkish people comparing turkish to ughric, large streetfestivals and so so many videos sharing the language, alphabet, cuisine, music, stories, attire all on a chinese app for chinese people. If nothing else learn about the culture that is supposedly being genocided from the uyghurs themselves.
Every day you wake up in the morning you can open up your phone and check new videos of murdered and mutilated children in Palestine at the hands of Israel.
You can go on a google search to find images of the 1989 Tiananmen protest and the violence that took place, very gore stuff. We’re talking 1989, most cameras were analog, bulky and visible, and required professional developing afterwards. As censored as that’s been in China, you can still find plenty of photo evidence of violence in and against the protests.
Yet, in 2025, somehow, in the smartphone era, when almost literally every Chinese adult citizen carries a camera in their pocket with internet access (and widespread non-prosecuted access of VPNs in China to bypass the great firewall), there isn’t a shred of photographic evidence of violence against the Uyghur people. The claims start on 2019-2020, and in FIVE YEARS, it hasn’t been possible to capture photographic evidence of the harrowing genocide?
I googled it and found a literal trove of evidence.
Here’s a starting point since it’s eluded you for so long.
How is this evidence of genocide? This is evidence for the existence of correction camps (which you can obviously criticise) during a very concrete period of time in Xinjiang over the span of a few years, not evidence of genocide
genocide, by definition, includes the erasure of a cultural group.
these camps are purpose built to erase a specific culture through “re-education”. that is genocide.
these camps are purpose built to erase a specific culture through “re-education”
Then why did the camps close after the few years it took for the counter-terrorism campaign to work? Why does Xinjiang have a regional government, with its chairman being an Uyghur man called Erkin Tuniyaz? Why are there above 100 Islamic associations in Xinjiang with imams teaching theology and Arabic?
This was the point where you moved the goalposts and revealed you’re not willing to discuss in good faith.
Have you read the picture which makes this post? It literally revolves around the word “genocide”. Who’s moving the goalposts here by saying “well maybe it’s not a genocide but there’s been some extent of police state during a counter-terrorism campaign”?
You’re correct, that is what the meme is referencing.
However, I responded to your statement attempting to deny photographic evidence of violence.
14 independent sources; yet you still are denying the evidence and moving goalposts.
This is what you wrote as of this comment:
Yet, in 2025, somehow, in the smartphone era, when almost literally every Chinese adult citizen carries a camera in their pocket with internet access (and widespread non-prosecuted access of VPNs in China to bypass the great firewall), there isn’t a shred of photographic evidence of violence against the Uyghur people.
It seems like some evidence of violence against them exists, and has been corroborated by multiple sources.
“14 independent sources”, none of which provides photographic evidence of violence? These “leaks” are mostly reports in Chinese that you have to trust have been translated accurately and unbiasedly by western political actors, not “pictures of people in concentration camps”.
I also mentioned multiple times the genocide in the comment you’re quoting, and you’re choosing to overfocus on the single time I didn’t.
So you’re acknowledging that the actions in China against Uighurs also amount to genocidal?
I also mentioned multiple times the genocide in the comment you’re quoting, and you’re choosing to overfocus on the single time I didn’t.
I’m glad we’re in agreement. It seemed you were trying to make a different point.
Given the sheer volume and consistency of evidence from multiple independent sources, it is difficult to dispute the compelling case of widespread human rights violations.
Not a shred of photographic evidence
That is misleading. Why did authorities try to stop BBC from filming?
Because BBC is a British state media company, and it has motives to create anti-china propaganda. The EU famously forbade access to Russian media after the invasion of Ukraine, do you think this is to prevent the outside world from seeing the horrors of the EU? Is there Chinese state media presence in US congress press releases?
Again: how does China stop every single Uyghur adult from taking pics with their smartphone? How did they not manage in 1989 with a reduced number of analog cameras which would need professional development, but they can manage in the smartphone era where a Chinese citizen can upload a picture on the internet 10 seconds after taking it?
Except there’s evidence, and not just satellite photos of internment camps. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/hacked-chinese-government-files-gives-new-insights-on-the-mass-detention-of-ethnic-uighurs
You can continue to hang onto some conspiracy-theory-esque logic of “but it doesn’t make sense”, or you can face reality. There are enough hurdles to getting a photo on the internet and then noticed by the wider public that it’s entirely explainable.
Thanks, I hadn’t seen that. What strikes me as odd is that neither side mentions a huge factor in the conflict: China’s investment in the “belt & road” initiative which relies on the old “Silk Road” route which passes through Xinjiang.
The Uighurs did have an independence separatist movement (China isn’t paranoid) and it would disrupt these plans. China aint letting go of its tight grip any time soon.
Source of your article:
The files were leaked to Adrian Zenz
If you still take seriously anything coming from Adrian Zenz, chairman of the Victims of Communism Memorial Association and rabid Christian conservative, it’s your fault
weak. Ok, education camps show videos of how glorious and indivisible China is. Did you know that US children are forced to recite similar pledge of allegiance every day? Ok, the police have made a plan for dealing with insurrection. This is pure brainwashing about the power to present nothing as brainwashing, with enough style and dramatic music score.
Yes, murica and china are pretty much on the same level when it comes to indoctrination. That doesn’t make either a good thing. I find the leadership of both countries abhorrent, sometimes one more than the other.
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Any source from anywhere could be propaganda. Here is your chance to debunk the BBC report if you want.
You are confusing banning news production by foreigners with banning transmission of foreign news.
BBC probably did make it difficult for Russian state news to access UK social media users after Russia invaded Ukraine for their “three day special operation” (obviously a lie from the start). They probably did not forbid access to the Russian journalists wanting to film in the UK.
China probably forbids BBC news with their great internet firewall. I know they ban the Tiananmen Square massacre imagery.
I don’t think UK forbids Chinese from filming in UK. China did not forbid BBC from filming in China either but they did try to forbid filming the detention centre.
Again: how does China stop every single Uyghur adult from taking pics with their smartphone?
Not “every single Uygur”, just the ones locked up. That is how detention works, even in the West.
Any source from anywhere could be propaganda
Which is why I’m bringing up things such as the overwhelming lack of photographic evidence over the 5+ years since the claims started, not exclusively blaming the BBC.
Here is your chance to debunk the BBC report if you want
Very convenient how the burden of proof is on me to prove that a report is fake. Casting away fake news is easy and doesn’t require any research or effort, debunking them is more complicated. How about this: the lack of photographic evidence from the BBC or any other report is enough for me to deny the claims of genocide.
You are confusing banning news production by foreigners with banning transmission of foreign news
No, I talked about both, I gave you the explicit example of the lack of Chinese state media in US institutional press releases.
China probably forbids BBC news with their great internet firewall
Good. Things like this are why there isn’t a pro-fascist movement in China, unlike the western world. China is progressively opening up now that it has enough soft power to maintain the western propaganda at bay, whereas the west closes up to Chinese social media by banning Tiktok or requiring it to have american ownership.
know they ban the Tiananmen Square massacre imagery
Yet you can readily find pictures of it happening, how come you can’t find pictures of a 5-year-long genocide in the age of smartphones?
Not “every single Uygur”, just the ones locked up
The reeducation centers are almost all closed already. I’m not arguing there wasn’t a reeducation campaign for a few years in Xinjiang targeting Uyghur people as a measure of counter-terrorism, I’m arguing that it’s already over (hence no news since 2022-2023) and that it doesn’t remotely constitute genocide.
Seems you missed my point:
Again: how does China stop every single Uyghur adult from taking pics with their smartphone?
Not “every single Uygur”, just the ones locked up. That is how detention works, even in the West.
So there was the BBC and the PBS report another person provided in the comments.
By the way, I agree there was no genocide. See my other comments where I acknowledge the Uighur separatist movement threatening access to the Silk Road so obviously the CCP has to try something.
such an embarrassing propaganda nothing burger. BBC propaganda crew being stopped from filming proves any demonic lie they made? Where is armed “supervisors”, where is barbed wire surrounding factories? “victims of communism” organization is a nazi front. BBC a CIA propaganda arm. OMG a job recruitment ad mentioned the “glory of work” in its marketing appeal. Must be mind control forced labour.
There is significant politicization of genocide declarations. They are all declared by fascist US empire and its slave controlled democracy colonies. There is very obvious extensive video evidence of extermination policies for Palestinians.
China responded to 2014 terrorist attacks with education and job creation programs. Xinxiang has had decent prosperity and population growth compared to other Chinese provinces despite a BDS policy from US controlled empire. The “technical genocide” accusation is based on a handful of Uyghur women with 4+ children who somehow all got to the UK, and claimed to now be sterile. Uyghurs had historically been exempt from Chinese one child policy.
Political demonism happens independently of facts. There are historical tensions in Xinxiang between Uyghur/muslim majority and relatively more prosperous Han minority, but Chinese policies are far more egalitarian than Alabama policies with much higher inequality. China has made the most humanist response to terrorism in history of civilization, even if it is not above criticism.
I would love a source on the Uyghurs that isn’t Adrain Zenz. He is the* Fash behind the “Victims of Communism Memorial Fund”.
All sources eventually point back to him in our Western Media, and its fucking disgusting.
(Edit: he is one of the Fash behind actual Nazi Propaganda Smuggling)
i think it is a great idea to build a “victims of communism” memorial so people can step outside to the victims of capitalism memorial.
Ngl this mene unnecesarily divides people more than anything.
No socialists and “tankies” I know IRL don’t deny Uyghur genocide, general opinion is “Conflict between the Chinese government and Uyghur groups exist but US media exaggerates it for clickbait articles too.”
Similar with Israel. Democrats mostly say “I hate the Iran’s government for their legal system but still doesn’t justify civilians dying.” Nobody is congratulating Israel on “standing up for gay rights” or some shit.
Also ask the other group how they feel about global warming or education system sometime.
Chinese communists certainly deny the Uyghur genocide.
No socialists and “tankies” I know IRL don’t deny Uyghur genocide, general opinion is "Conflict between the Chinese government and Uyghur groups exist
MLs in lemmy absolutely deny anything bad is happening to Uyghurs.
This isn’t about IRL. This is about the disinformation that bad actors spread in online communities.
You also have a selection bias. You have friends with similar political views because you distance yourself from people you disagree with, either physically or just through avoiding “sensitive” topics. I’ve personally disconnected from some friends because they didn’t like it when I brought up Biden’s historic support of Israel. I still voted for him and Harris over Trump, but that wasn’t good enough for them.
No socialists and “tankies” I know IRL don’t deny Uyghur genocide, general opinion is “Conflict between the Chinese government and Uyghur groups exist but US media exaggerates it for clickbait articles too.”
Socialists in real life? Probably not. Tankies? Yes. They all do.
we need to get more people off reddit and twitter and onto lemmy
True, but I don’t see how that’s relevant to the post.
we are all stuck between a rock and hard place of reddit and twitter.
My Tribe is made up of people who refuse to have a Tribe.
this is true and you should say it. I’m sorry about the people who will be assholes about it.
Being anarchist is just stupid period
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Not really. Libertarians are just socially embarrassed corporate statists.
Also, you say that as if not wanting money is a bad thing.
Bruh, just bruh…
