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Prepare for the 14year Olds on hexbear to come in and pretend that China has a great government
You know, that actually makes sense. 14-year-olds. It would explain a lot about hexbears.
Yeah, the Chinese government is totally very democratic and is receptive to the criticism of its citizens! They never censor words and topics they don’t like on their social media platforms!
It also respects women so much and represents them very proportionally
Also they don’t censor any single website internationally
Just got banned from Hexbear for saying something negative about China and the US at the same time. They have no tolerance of any discussion that challenges their preconceptions.
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Don’t even get me started on the ones who try to argue that “North Korea is more free and democratic than the US”.
You’d think that them having an absolute monarchy would be enough to make even tankies think twice.
don’t count on it. back before i switched instances i had to read hexbear users unironically praising china’s “democratic dictatorship.” highly recommend reading the wikipedia article on it; it’s actually incredibly uninformative.
edit, to be clear, it’s a lot of describing the history of the phrase and vague ideas about the interactions between “the bourgeoisie, proletariat, and economy,” with nothing at all about how it actually is implemented into the government and differs from a regular dictatorship in any way. probably because it doesn’t. here
Again hearing more about tankies but never encountering them. There must be some sort of cream for all that butt hurt you people have.
lmao i wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that your instance defederated them. it’s 90% of what they post
Sounds like your instance is small as shit and other small communities dominate the conversation while the rest of us don’t give a shit.
Ahh thanks for the great reminder for all the tankies about communism failing for China and all these nations so they had to incorporate capitalism and allowed privatization of industries.
USSR did it, China did it, Vietnam did it, Cuba is doing it.
hexbear users can’t see this comment, so it falls on my sleep-deprived ass to point out that socialist nations essentially have two options: 1) ban all capitalism and be banned from trade in turn, like Cuba and the USSR, or 2) permit some measure of capitalism, give the west its profits, and use that as leverage to gain access to trade, like China and Vietnam. You either play ball or get strangled to death.
At the moment I’m writing this, 7 tankies have seen your comment
Well, that or Marx purists. Marx believed that the transition between capitalism and socialism would include a period where the state was fulfilling capitalist roles and run as the infamous “dictatorship of the proletariat.”
He never quite seems to explain how democracy arises from said dictatorship, or the people’s recourse when it inevitably corrupts.
also the people that say socialism is fascism are the ones slowly taking our rights away.
You want to read what book? No we don’t like it. Who are you gonna have sex with? No we don’t like that…
You want water while waiting in line to vote in the same state where we shut down polling locations and tried to ‘find’ nonexistent votes? Nope, don’t like that ether!
Socialism can be good if the government doesn’t have to resort to totalitarianism to enforce it - and when has that ever happened? Rarely. Rarely.
Lol what, no that’s just the standard for communism lol
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That’s not how communism ends up being, it looks great on paper but once a human element is added it goes it shit and some people will be richer than others. It doesn’t make what they have capitalism by any stretch. It’s got bits of the free market there but thinking they’ve got anything like capitalism in the West is a joke.
That’s not how communism ends up being
No, the countries you think are communist just were never actually communist they just claim to be or other people claim they are. There are very few actual communist countries, if there are any at all. To be communist you have to be classless with everyone equal to each other. China is not communist, Russia is not communist, Cuba is not communist.
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Lol ahh yes the tankie excuse of “that’s not real communism”…no it’s real communism because that’s how it always turns out. Stop trying to defend the shit.
“that’s not real communism” is something no “tankie” ever said. It is strawman set up exactly by the people like those the original meme mock, the white westerner pseudoleft idealists.
All the countries mentioned in the original meme were/are socialist and it was/is glorious. Westolefto can eat shit, their succdem and ultra movements didn’t achieved even 1/1000 of what ML’s did.
There is a stage in the transition to communism called ‘the oppression of the proletariat’ aka ‘dictatorship’. Supposedly it should be a temporary stage before transitioning into a more decentralized type of government. As far as I am aware, not any communist revolution got beyond the dictatorship stage as absolute power corrupts.
Specifically “dictatorship of the proletariat”, which was basically an 1800s gothic way to say “direct democracy for workers”. Marx is somewhat infamous for the way he makes his ideas sound scarier than they are
And to clarify, most revolutions fail or adopt bureaucracy primarily to defend themselves from outside, capitalist influence, power corruption probably plays a part too but state power used by socialists is actually part of the plot
Very informative. I read the summarised work here that someone send me. And I have missed that nuance.
I also made a mistake and said “direct democracy for poor people” instead of “workers” so I went and edited that. whoops
Other than Fascists lying and claiming to be socialists. Because that’s something fascists do… they lie. All the time.
Or are you someone who thinks the “National Socialist Party” was socialists because the literal Nazis would never misrepresent themselves?
That hexbear instance is full of fascists claiming to be socialists LOL.
hexbear was unfederated for three years, are you saying they just sat around all that time pretending to be queer communists to each other with no audience? Would thousands of people really check in to a website daily or weekly for years just to do that?
I don’t think they are pretending to be those things. They truly believe themselves and their interpretation of Marxism, Marxism-Leninism, communism and socialist projects to be true and just.
The only issue is that they come from a specific strain of western leftist that got into the “uwu dank Soviet club” meme of the mid-10s and never evolved past that understanding of the people, projects, policies and states they stan like a fandom. They could take some lessons from the anarchists tbqh, but they’d rather post PPB and “liberals get the wall”. Very annoying.
they’d rather post PPB and “liberals get the wall”.
what do you want from them, a good faith response? when half the people they talk to are people like this guy? or people like you, who dismiss their views from a distance and respond with with superficial vibes-based criticisms while having little or no understanding of what they actually think or why?
I dismiss their views out of hand because I have history with people who espoused very similar views and they showed themselves to have a very superficial understanding of leftism, socialism, communism, and various leftist writers. They exalt historical figures of communist movements to apostolic, sometimes even deity-like status, and throw theory at people like it’s scripture. They take the counter to the west’s propaganda against communism to be full-throated propagandists for communist projects, even for valid criticisms.
But really, even if their political lens was the truest and freest, I still would not like them because they are fucking obnoxious and utterly insufferable. They larp on their local instance about “performing coups on other instances” and “doing the emotional labor of educating Lemmy users” when in reality they are abrasive, unpleasant people hamfistedly applying leftist social and economic critiques as a cudgel to dunk on people if they don’t automatically agree with them, be they fascist, racist, liberal or even leftist.
I saw the debacle with Blahaj and how Hexbear users acted. Whatever critique of their adminship could have been made is completely drowned out by the manipulative yet dense behavior of their accusers during and after.
What I want from them is to not immediately look for reasons to take the least charitable interpretation of someone’s point and derail threads, stop acting as if they own every single instance, stop larping as if they are building a leftist revolution across the fediverse and go outside, and to stop posting obnoxiously large server emojis all over every fucking thread.
It’s a distinct blend of the worst of Reddit communists and Twitter users and I don’t appreciate it when they decide to pull that nonsense in other instances beyond their own.
I dismiss their views out of hand
I don’t care what comes after this. I still read it, but I don’t care. “You knew some people, therefore hexbear is those people.”
they are fucking obnoxious
what do you say about the guy I linked to in the last comment? You don’t think hexbear’s obnoxiousness might be a reaction to years of talking to people like that? You don’t think maybe at this point they expect it and that’s why they’re flippant?
not immediately look for reasons to take the least charitable interpretation of someone’s point
look at how your own instance talks, this is absurdly hypocritical.
I don’t care what comes after this. I still read it, but I don’t care.
Cool, I suppose I shouldn’t take any of your arguments seriously then.
“You knew some people, therefore hexbear is those people.”
No, I knew some people who showed bad behavior, and Hexbear users are showing similar behavior.
what do you say about the guy I linked to in the last comment?
Yeah, they’re somewhat obnoxious. It’s annoying to see communists lumped in widely with fascists. They aren’t 14-year-old Stalin-fancam sea-lion-posting-in-every-Lemmy-instance obnoxious though.
You don’t think hexbear’s obnoxiousness might be a reaction to years of talking to people like that? You don’t think maybe at this point they expect it and that’s why they’re flippant?
Maybe it is a reaction to to people like that. I do not give a fuck. Unless they’re picking beef with long-storied rivals, everyone else has been here for 2-3 months, maybe less. We are not the collective animus of every anti-communist they’ve ever met. We’re people here to form link aggregator communities, and it’s unacceptable for them to treat people here as punching bags for their past frustrations just because they have a bit of social power here.
There’s a wide range of people with political opinions here, and left-wing populism is quite popular here. If they changed their engagement, more people would be amenable to their community. But if they insist on acting the fool, they will eventually be sent back to the circus.
look at how your own instance talks, this is absurdly hypocritical.
Talk like what, furries? They’re mostly nerds, not much political discourse there. Small twinge of liberalism/leftism maybe.
Sure. Fellowship is an important part of maintaining a weird cult-like ideological stance.
Also we can’t ignore the fact that there’s some national interest juice behind this. China being a fascist country that’s claiming to be communist to maintain legitimacy (and maintain power for the elites in that country) means there’s significant resources that can be used to maintain the narrative that fascism branded as socialism is a good thing.
And dumb people love the idea that they’re the small group that is getting things right, it’s just the rest of the world that’s wrong. See flat earthers, qanon, etc. They get in their little community where (unlike the rest of the world) no one tells them they’re an idiot when they say their stupid bullshit. All they have to do is conform to the overall narrative the community is centered around and they don’t need to do any critical thinking, and gain a sense of acceptance despite being an idiot.
imagine how awful it would be to spend hours in a long back and forth with someone like this trying to convince them that you have a nuanced perspective and justifications for it and you are not a stupid, monstrous, cult-like fanatic, all while they do not listen to you because they already know you are those things and therefore nothing you say is worth considering
Kind of what political discourse is on social media. Saying things to appease with the network your account is in so you can continue to accepted by them. Most prominent social media “personalities” don’t care about the issues, but only want to appear to care about the issues.
I’d much prefer to talk to someone that honestly disagrees with me rather than someone who’s disagreement is performative in order to please their friend network. It’s possible (though maybe still unlikely) to convince someone who is honest about their views. Someone that’s performative will continue to disagree because you aren’t the one they’re really talking to. It’s the “friend” network they’re always speaking to regardless of who’s comment they’re placing theirs under.
Such is social media.
it’s not performative when hexbear disagrees with you, that’s just you assuming things again.
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As long as you properly label China and Russia fascist authoritarian because they have a boner for racism and bigotry.
Venezuela would like a word
My feed got a lot less irritating when I blocked posts from CyberGhost.
imagine lemmy if we could user-level defederate lemmygrad & hexbear
paradise
It’s such a fucking pain in my ass to have to block every single community from Lemmygrad and Hexbear. I’m so tired of seeing their dumbass 7th grade love of fascists and racism.
alongside having to block all the users that intrude on other subs to post their tankie propaganda
If youre on Android, the connect app has a block instance feature
It’s astounding that they are fascist lovers but parody the use of Leningrad in their name. Pick an ethos, guys.
One of the many things I love about Blahaj is that we’re no longer federated with Hexbear, there was a bit (frankly a shit ton)of drama getting there but those days when we were federated I blocked more Hexbear users than users from any other instance.
Join us on Blahaj, we’re explicitly queer friendly and we don’t have to deal with Hexbear anymore.
Of course once we can migrate accounts that will likely be a far easier sell.
Blocking chapo and news was really good for me.
I’m guessing you’re an anarchist, which I appreciate and so I totally understand why you may not like these instances, but do you ever feel like some of the people criticizing Lemmygrad and Hexbear are Right-wingers themselves?
I fully support Leftist critiques but some of these claims are kind of wild. Someone claiming hexbear is racist? How would it be racist, from a Leftist perspective? It just seems to me like Right-wingers are attacking them with these ridiculous claims to get them to be defederated or at least to get people to stay away and not understand the humor. If someone critiqued them for defending the State when communism should include the dissolution of the State apparatus, the recuperation of initially revolutionary movements by global capitalism, etc. then I’d appreciate the Leftist critiques but it doesn’t seem to me to be the case. And it doesn’t seem to me like there is any monolithic position at hexbear either. I actually was further pleasantly surprised to see they had an anarchism community and also a Christianity community at hexbear, it doesn’t feel to me like they have a hard Stalinist party-line and don’t accept differences among the Left.
I do get the feeling they don’t like Right-wingers though.
I’m just gonna talk about your first paragraph. No they are not right wingers lmao. I fucking hate that you can’t be centrist or democratic socialist without some asshole (not you, you’re just asking) saying you’re a right winger.
I believe the west has better equality, stability, quality of life, rights, morals, so and and so forth.
And I think we need to greatly expand our social programs.
However if I defend the west then suddenly I’m a right winger? Fuck off with that classification shit. I just don’t subscribe to Russia and China somehow being better then the US or the west in any sort of way.
This is why these social movements never get any movement in the US. They’re too busy self hating and worshipping facists in the East.
Thanks for your response and I appreciate the thought you put into it. I agree we need to greatly and desperately expand social programs. I also don’t think Russia or China are perfect, much less socialist, but I wouldn’t say the West—including the US—is categorically and unquestionably better in every sort of way. That being said, the Left does need to be broader in the West and everywhere else, which is why I think I’d rather hold solidarity with Leftists in these instances who I may not fully agree with rather than attacking them alongside Right-wingers and fascists.
And, sorry, but, no offense, a centrist is a Right-winger to me and it proves my point.
My point is I’m only a right winger in a small niche bubble which is completely not the reality of things.
To most of the world I’m a lefty and to actual right wingers they would probably call me a communist (and sure incorrectly but not my point).
Right winger means maga idiot to most of the ppl in the US not democrat who wants to greatly expand our social programs and nets.
What you are describing is called “campism” in socialist communities which aren’t run by edgy teenagers and trolls.
Hexbear unironically defends Russia, which is an extremely racist and homophobic place. Likewise, China is also an extremely racist place, which is increasingly opposed to LGBT advocacy as “western degeneracy.” And of course, they fall over themselves to defend tyranny, as long as it pays lip service to socialist ideals, while denigrating social democrats as insincere “shit libs.” Then they post their little arms crossed emoji thinking they’ve made some point.
By and large these people are children who legitimately have an extremely narrow view of the world they seek to critique. They see Lenin write that “imperialism is something everyone other than Russia does” and that’s about as far as they look into the underlying philosophy of imperialism.
Well, I’m not going to comment on Russia’s imperialism being supported on Hexbear because I haven’t quite seen that as much as I’ve seen critique of Ukraine’s issue with Nazism and the West’s hypocritical denialism about that even existing as an issue in Ukraine—when during Euromaidan it was acknowledged. I don’t support Putin or the invasion, because while there are Nazis in Ukraine who should be dealt with the same could be said about Russia or the US itself, but I also don’t think the US is being smart by arming fascist Right-wingers. The US has done this before and it never works out well.
I don’t quite see the racism argument though. Hexbear is racist because some people support Russia? I mean, yeah, Russia can definitely be racist and maybe some people at Hexbear probably support Russia in an uncritical way. But lacking any racist memes or racist discussions happening, of which I’ve seen none, I don’t think that equates to the users or the instance being racist. The US and Europe are extremely racist societies, I would argue way more racist than Russia, but I don’t see people arguing that instances with liberals who support the US are racist instances and should be defederated.
It seems like you just kinda agree with hexbear.
Oh, no, most of the critique, especially of lemmygrad, is from a right wing stance (right wing from an anarchist prospective). There are are plenty of good conversations to be had about the role of activism and the state in achieving liberation. But the standard critique is a knee jerk reaction.
I blocked those two hexbear comnunities because they are the most likely to insert hexbear’s wild and unpleasant meme culture into my timeline. They aren’t terribly interested in any discussion that doesn’t start and end with their viewpoint, cause its meme culture.
I have an 60% confidence I will get sea-lioned for this comment. Also a 20% chance I will get pig poop balls, although highlighting it may increase those odds
edit: after 5 hours I did not get sea-lioned. I admit I was overly critical in that estimate.
Yeah, I’m seeing it’s more Right-wingers than anarchist comrades so I do get skeptical.
But I understand about the meme culture. It can be heavy-handed but I actually like it. I think it’s funny and it is a nice break from just liberal or apolitical meme humor. I’ve seen some good discussions there though but honestly not too many anarchist discussions, although I get the feeling it wouldn’t be totally rejected. I wish there was more solidarity and love between us.
Thanks for the response!
Yeah, I subscribe to and participate in soma hexbear communities. I don’t throw it all out. And of course, the majority of critique of liberation will come from the right wing. There are some anarchist comnunities on lemmy, I hope to see you there some time!
Vhat is it that you feel unappealing about lemmygrad that does not agree with my opinions??
Edit: Sorry bots work on a half-day timeline.
Nothing, I have no strong opinion of lemmygrad.
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Or simply choose a instance that defederates fascists and authoritarian loving dipsshits. Never had a problem here with far right or tankie content.
On sync for Lemmy you can block instances by putting it in it’s filter list.
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The connect app allows you to block instances. Not the same as defeding obviously, but it helps.
What’d I miss?
To summarize: More tankie bullshit
So many hexbear users here lmao
This has made my Lemmy experience considerably better
How do you do instance-based filtering (other than starting your own instance and defederating)? This is something I’ve been looking for.
The_Donald of the Left.
They’re tankies, aren’t they? i.e. Red-coded fascists that don’t care about things like worker enfranchisement unless it’s a way of expressing American diabolism. That’s not the left.
Well they claim to be left but they are delusional. They are definitely fascists the support fascist regimes like North Korea. They claim it’s not a fascist country just a communist one, but anyone with a brain understands it’s also EXTREMELY FASCIST.
Yep - wrong, dumb, fascist - name a more iconic trio.
As they get banned from more instances, the instances they are not banned at start seeing a higher concentration of them.
Tankies forget that Trotsky existed.
Tankies forget that anything that isn’t stalinism is also considered socialist
Seems like all shit opinions come from chuds on lemmygrad
I wonder why
I really wonder if they’re CCP sympathizers using VPNs to bypass the Great Firewall, just to bitch about “Western Authoritarianism” lmao.
No they’re just idiots
*authoritarian, not fascist. There is a difference.
*authoritarian, not fascist. There is a difference.
When authoritarians are in power long enough, whatever ideology the revolution the previous generation had gets replaced by an emphasis of simply maintaining power through whatever means necessary. And fascism is the easiest way to accomplish that.
We can debate over whether Mao was really socialist or whatever, but he’s dead it doesn’t much matter now. The CCP today is accepting of billionaires, capitalism is legal, labour unions are illegal, the leadership is misogynistic, oppressive towards minorities, promotes the “century of humiliation” narrative. Oh and people live in fear of another Tienanmen Square style massacre. Whatever China was in the past, it’s fascist today.
And Russia? WTF are leftist (or so they claim) weirdos going on about there? The Soviet Union collapsed and was replaced with a capitalist democracy which became fascist under Putin’s regime.
There’s this weird thing where so-called leftists think that if some kind of socialism existed on a patch of earth then they need to carry water whatever fascist that’s ruling over that patch of earth today.
Ah yes, the tyranny of small differences. Let us tear each other apart over this trifling distinction.
Fact; fascism falls under the larger umbrella of authoritarianism.
The problem is that people throw around “fascism” like my 70 year old mom uses the word “communism.” She couldn’t even define the actual meaning of communism let alone her use of the word.
In the common internet usage fascism just means “anything authoritarian and to the right of where I stand.” It also has the issue of making people think that the problem is with left versus right politics when authoritarianism can and has existed everywhere in the political spectrum in history.
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Significantly fewer for me. I smell hexbear
Only 100 here on my side.
I agree. Fascist countries like Denmark, Germany and Canada often get called “socialist” and they have been disastrous for the reputation of socialism.
You are certainly American but that’s especially stupid, is it a troll?
I think its sarcasm
Would you like more resources or is this enough?
https://www.businessinsider.com/denmark-strict-immigration-policies-ghetto-neighborhoods-2018-7
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/03/16/denmarks-mismatched-treatment-syrian-and-ukrainian-refugees
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/18/germany-afd-polls-krah/
Of course /s. Germany, with Fuhrer Schultz, Denmark with Grand Admiral Frederiksen (I had to look it up lmao), and Canada with Supreme Commander Trudeau. All of them are actively involved in passing legislation against socialists and Muslims. All of them are involved in gathering Muslims into re-education camps. When socialists protested their respective governments for starting to become capitalist, they were run over by tanks. Also, all of these governments prevent their citizens from accessing the internet outside their own countries. Agreed! Very fascist indeed!
Would you like more resources or is this enough?
https://www.businessinsider.com/denmark-strict-immigration-policies-ghetto-neighborhoods-2018-7
https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/03/16/denmarks-mismatched-treatment-syrian-and-ukrainian-refugees
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/18/germany-afd-polls-krah/
Dayum… That’s shameful for Denmark. As for the German far right, polls tell many different stories. The German government is still very democratic. What about Canada? You also accused them of fascism.
To be fair, I would agree that the German government is the most decent in Western Europe. But the far right and anti-refugee sentiment in Germany has risen dramatically, and it wasn’t that great to begin with.
But just to add a few more examples, you have places like Italy, Spain (the current government is still a direct descendant of Franco’s fascist monarchy) and France (see latest laws against Muslims and Arabs, and just the rising hatred in general).
The point is, Western Europe is always painted as this morally superior place, when it is very much not. People are quick to shit talk third world countries as if we’re the only ones dealing with fascistic governments. At least we acknowledge it. So many Europeans do not.
From another commenter: https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/canada/2023/08/10/83-areas-of-interest-located-during-search-for-unmarked-graves-at-residential-school
Man this comment section is a treat.
could use some sort by controversial ability right now
Don’t even need it, upvotes aren’t frequent enough here to sort out the good from the bad.
Link to the original meme?
Alas, poor Vuranitute! I knew him, Horatio (before the tankies bombarded him with their “well, ackchuyually”)
What did the original say? I haven’t seen it
Probably some tankie shit
You’re probably missing out on a free headache by not seeing it
Because so much tankie shit is so frustrating I get a headache
How did i end up in memecirclejerk?
Lemmy users: yes socialism is good
Everyone else points to a country where it failed
Lemmy users: that wasn’t real socialism
9/10 times a proper attempt at socialism or communism was made, imperial powers intervened and corrupted it.
Here’s a tip: Git gud
Moving the goal post from “it’s not real socialism” to “it was the imperial powers that intervened”
It’s always something else ;)
it’s not moving the goal post but okay my man. show me a time when capitalism worked well and wasn’t corrupted.
it’s all broke so whatever.
Now changing the subject
okay.
