Hey all, I am locking this post. Here is the bottom line. Blahaj is a trans safe instance. Regardless of your personal opinion on whether a term is gender neutral or not, the moment someone tells you that they are not OK with that term, that should be the end of the debate. This is a good rule not only in Blahaj but in real life. Continuing to argue with someone about whether they should or should not accept in this matter is harmful.
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Honestly in my social circle “Dude” has basically become gender neutral.
I’m a school bus driver. Kids call everybody of all genders “dude” and “bro”. Also the n-word but that’s a different matter.
Dude, man, bro, and “fellas” have all become gender neutral to me
Edit: come to think of it not only has “bro” become neutral, but “bro-sephanie” has become something I use for guys.
“Bro” is gender neutral for me. Though I still try to avoid it with transfems I don’t know very well (which is… all except one) since I can’t know if they’d tell me if it makes then uncomfortable. Since even if you know how it’s meant it can still feel bad.
One of the very few things where I’ll change how I interact with a transfem vs a ciswoman
“Dude” and “Bro” being gender neutral really varies from social circle to social circle. I always air on the side of caution although I’ve even seen some cis females call each other dude and bro
I always air on the side of caution
Bro … it’s “err”.
Engrish hard :(
Going some 20-25 years back I recall some of my friends from English speaking countries using it as gender neutral, and I guess once I wrapped my head around it, that’s how it’s been for me. But your mileage may certainly vary.
God I wish. I accidentally ‘dude’ my trans friends on occasion. I feel so bad.
As a transfem, I definitely appreciate this.
https://www.etymonline.com/word/dude
Interesting suggested etymology, I’d never have thought dude about the type of person described there.
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Real. I don’t have a lot of female friends so I had to adjust a bit.
Earnest question – sorry if this is offensive or something everyone already knows – but shouldn’t you treat transwomen and ciswomen the same?
I mean, mostly, yeah. The issue is, while most people will say dude is gender neutral, it really depends on the person.
I’m trans, I have two friends who call friends dude. One is a woman who I have known for like 5 years and will call everyone and everything dude. When she says it I don’t feel weird about it.
I have another friend who says dude is gender neutral and I’ve known them for about the same amount of time. However, I have never heard them call a woman dude. They say they do, but I our mostly female friend group, I think I’ve only ever heard it towards me.
That’s really the issue. People will say it’s gender neutral but not use it neutrally, and believe me, trans people notice it. Anecdotally, this is how my trans friends view it as well, but take my experience with a grain of salt.
Trans- and cis women are both women, but that doesn’t mean they are the same in every way, no?
Yes. If I know or suspect that a certain word can potentially hurt a cis-woman I know due to her unique history, I won’t use it around her, either.
Yes but this is more like not telling 911 survivors plane jokes or rape survivors rape jokes
You are not wrong. But trans folks can be a lot more sensitive around language use sometimes. Misgendering ranges anywhere from annoying to hurtful to being an actual verbal attack. So their skin is often less thick for gendered language.
is using gender-neutral masculine terms like “guys” misgendering?
It’s like in a romance language. If it’s mixed genders, then no, but if it’s only women, then yes. If I’m in a mixed group of friends, “You guys” is totally fine, but if I’m solely with my transfem friends and someone says “You guys” to us, it feels tone deaf at best and like pretty blatant misgendering at worst.
I get this when we’re at restaurants sometimes and it’s pretty clear when the waitstaff are being rude. Table of all cis women next to us? “Can I get you girls anything else?” Our table of transwomen clearly presenting femme? “Can I get you guys anything else?” kinda sucks.
Unironically, “Y’all” has become a significant part of my vernacular when talking to groups of people, but especially around my queer peeps because it covers every possible option, including those outside the gender binary.
As a general rule, don’t use language someone asks you not to use.
Even better, rather than thinking about specific actions, just try to treat everyone with genuine respect. If you commit a faux pas, learn from it, chuckle at yourself, and move on. 😊
It can be. Depends on the person
It can be depending on the person. My general advice is to just use gender neutral terms like “folk” or something.
I always mean words like dude or guys as gender neutral, and luckily none of my friends have an issue with it, but I understand why some people wouldn’t like that. Is there a good gender neutral replacement for the word?
folks, friend(s), y’all, sweetie, partner, sport, buddy,
pal, chum, sunshine, famIsn’t “pal” masculine, with “gal” being the feminine version?
Speaking only from my own experience, I’ve never associated “pal” with masculinity. “Gal” is, to my knowledge, the feminine form of “guy”
Oh, maybe! I’m not an english speaker
Looking at wiktionary, apparently the two words have completely separate etymologies - but “pal” is borrowed from “brother” in one language, while “gal” is borrowed from “girl” in a different language (which itself derived it from English, I think?)
Language can be funky
WillStealYourNicknames
Folks.
Kenji Lopez alt signs off with a shout-out to “guys, gals, and non-binary pals” so there’s that
The Lawful Good version of “bitches, bros, and non-binary hoes”
I use ‘my liege’ and ‘boss’ quite a bit.
I think I had a couple iffy uses last week but friends always know I mean well.
Pal?
Pal, friend, and bud all sound… idk, somehow condescending to me? I don’t really know why. I think the best one I’ve been able to think of so far is y’all.
Mate?
u 'avin a gigul?
Fam?
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I work as a bartender and call the most feminine cis gendered women the world has ever seen bro, brother, mate and man. I don’t even want to do it and always feel embarrassed afterwards I’m just a chronic bruh poster.
I was working at this fancy upscale botanical garden and instead of greeting the patron with a very formal “Hello, welcome!” I said “Sup?” with the chin up and everything…
I died a little inside that day.
Wassup!
Is it weird that I’m a Trans girl and I still use dude like so much?
And yet when other people use it for me, I feel like I have to ask how they meant it 😅
6 months in and I still misgender myself sometimes lol. It definitely isn’t a super easy switchover after decades of using something else.
Neuroplasticity is a thing, but it takes time and vigilance for changes to happen.
Oh I don’t see it as a bad thing. I’m just saying it’s ironic.
dude isn’t gender neutral?
It really depends 😅
ayo your avatar moves??
oh yeah you get that with lemmy pro. if you upgrade to lemmy pro+ you get an animated banner for your profile too!
You guys have avatars?? (I’m on voyager so idk what I’m missing on desktop)
omgg I’m subscribing right away!!
It’s a little inconsistent, but don’t beat yourself up too much. Language is complicated and slow to change, same as our usage of it.
but don’t beat yourself up too much
Oh don’t worry, that wasn’t the spirit of my comment at all. If anything, I started using dude after my egg cracked. It fits with the chill, tomboyish image I have of myself.
I feel that, it was drilled into me in the 90s and I just it for most people as well.
I used to use “man” in a gender neutral way a lot. Like “hey man” or “what’s up man”. Probably a '90s kid thing. But here’s the thing, it’s not about how I feel about the word. It’s about how the person getting called that word feels about it. So I’ve made a conscious effort to stop using it. It’s really not difficult to not be a selfish asshole.
These days, the only person I still say “hey man” to is my weed guy.
I still say “hey man” to my weed guy
That’s like their formal title lol. My last dealer (4 years clean now) was a woman and I always said “hey man” to her.
Whenever anyone says “hey man” to me I respond with, “no, not anymore” and they tend to get really confused.
I used to say “dude” and “man” to everyone. It was pretty easy to give up “dude”, and I just kinda seamlessly switched “man” to “fam.”
I still think guy/dude is gender neutral. Call it the Good Burger principle:
“I’m a dude, he’s a dude, she’s a dude, we’re all dudes… HEY!”
doesn’t matter if it isn’t to whoever you are referring to
Yeah I agree. At the end of the day I’m not going to disrespect someone by calling them something they don’t want to be called
Yeah for me, just she/her, thanks.
If you wanna borrow from old gang verbage, you can call me girl, I suppose. Like “whaddup, girl” or babe is nice too. Like… Maybe call me something sexy and degrade me, don’t nullify me by making me into a man. I would rather be a sex toy, a literal object, than be a man.
Yeah I use all those in gender neutral ways. “Man” can start a sentence and not be directed at anyone.
My closest gender neutral family member likes dude, if you’re in doubt just ask, they’ll appreciate it
Asking and respecting the answer is true big brain <3
Yeah I mean, I’m not calling someone dude or guy intentionally if they don’t like it. That’s just being polite.
Dunno, I use “dudette” pretty frequently with my girl friends (and I don’t mean Egg Carriers™, nor do I have something better than “girl friends” - initially wanted to go for “chick pals” as a snappy equivalent, then I started feeling like That One Creepy Uncle). Actually use “dudette” more than I do “dude,” it has a nicer sound to it.
As I see it, “dude” is gender neutral when used as an interjection, same as “man” and “guy.”
