“Both sides bad” is why we have Trump.
Democrats took America from gays are illegal, to full gay rights with marriage. Environmental laws have been all Democrats. If Democrats did nothing, Trump wouldn’t have signed 76 executive orders reversing Biden orders on his very first day.
No, the DNC is why we have trump. It’s on them.
Obama wasn’t perfect at all, but his platform was at least change and progress. While he was originally against gay marriage he did listen to the public and change for re-election. If the DNC listened to the public instead of fighting against progress that would be great. But like… Biden was the throw away to conservatives for Obama’s VP to “balance out” Obama being progressive….And now he was their best idea on what to do for a better future? It’s pathetic, and demonstrates the above.
No one is trying to say Biden was worse than trump. They’re saying the DNC is what even allowed trump to exist, by being greedy fucks who care more about their handlers than the American people and running the worst candidates they can. “Nothing will fundamentally change” is the dumbest, most “fuck you don’t bother to vote for me” fucking campaign I’ve ever heard.
No one is trying to say Biden was worse than trump.
The meme isn’t that Biden was worse but that he did nothing. It’s proveably false. Trump himself proved it by criticizing Biden at inauguration and immediately undoing Biden’s orders.
If it was that easy to undo what biden did, then practically he did nothing.
Much of what Trump has “undone” wasn’t undone legally. Many of the things he did requires congress to rollback and other things are caught up in courts. But in the mean time they happened so it will be potentially unable to be put back even if it is ordered so.
So, again, practically meaningless distinction. Until democrats are willing to use the same tools they leave available to republicans, the democrats are ineffective.
Thing is, they don’t have the same opportunities. The one reason why trump has been able to push things through in this shitty manner, is because the Republicans have stacked the Supreme Court (because the holes from people dying got filled while Republicans were in power) and they have majority control of Congress.
So why wasn’t Biden stacking SCOTUS?
When judges die while democrats have power, they nominate milquetoast compromise judges while republicans just go full far-right crazy. Democrats don’t fight to block the crazy republican judges nor do they even fight to get their own judges in. A great example is when Obama nominated Merrick Garland, an already lame pick, as a “compromise”. The republicans insisted on waiting until the 2016 election concluded and the next president was sworn in and the democrats didn’t fight back at all. Then as some dumb form of symbolism, they make Merrick Garland the Attorney General during Biden’s term and Garland proceeds to not prosecute Trump for four years. That should tell you how great he would’ve been as a supreme court judge.
So even if democrats do get a judge in, it’s a compromised “centrist”. How do you think the court will end up when one side packs in far-right wackos and the other side puts in moderate right-wing losers? Seems pretty clear what the direction would be even if democrats won every election until the end of time.
Democrats took America from gays are illegal, to full gay rights with marriage.
Gay marriage was legalized at the federal level by a conservative-leaning Supreme Court. The only time a Democrat acted on same-sex marriage nationally was when Bill Clinton banned it by signing DOMA in 1996.
Environmental laws have been all Democrats.
Nixon created the EPA.
If Democrats did nothing, Trump wouldn’t have signed 76 executive orders reversing Biden orders on his very first day.
If Democrats passed legislation, Biden’s achievements couldn’t be undone through executive order.
The parties are not the same, especially now that one of them is openly fascist, but you’re giving Democrats credit for things they did not do. Also, the meme doesn’t say they’re the same, it describes the rachet effect, which is an accurate representation of how Democrats behaved on multiple issues. Look at how their economic policies have changed over the last 30 years, or how their views on immigration policies have changed since Trump was elected.
Is there a political community you found on lemmy that understands how this works, like you do. I see way too many Democrat apologists on these popular communities.
Well, .world has a lot of users who understand this, but the loudest voices (who are often times moderators) are definitely Democrat apologists. Then again, some of the other instances, like .ml, have the opposite problem, and are full-blown tankie/authoritarian apologists, so it’s kind of a, “pick your poison, damned if you do, damned if you don’t,” situation.
I miss Reddit. R. I. P.
Eh, I saw a lot of the same shit on Reddit. I think you’d have to go back at least 7 or 8 years to find a version of Reddit that wasn’t trash.
Nah. I had my feed highly curated to active and sane subs within my interests. It was too good to be true.
That is absolutely not what I’m saying. I’m correcting objectively false statements you’re making; environmental laws were not all Democrats, the Democrats did not do anything at the federal level to pass, “full gay rights with marriage,” and the meme and OP did not say, “both sides bad.” Those points are a statement of fact, not an argument.
Not on .world. I’ve noticed .world is more of a neoliberal, mostly pro-capitalism instance in general.
Note, I’m talking more about the moderation rather than members.
Okay. I don’t understand all the different instances yet. I got instructions from someone on how to navigate it but haven’t sat down to try.
Basically all you need to know is every instance has their own admins with their own rules, and often times you will see instances who are focused on a particular group of people, like my instance, for instance, which is for hardcore computer geeks, but where everyone is welcome regardless of whether or not they are even into computers.
I also like my instance because they explicitly choose to not defederate with any instance. I can choose what to block myself, which is how I prefer it.
There are also instances like db0’s (former /r/piracy moderator) for example, which focus more on individual freedoms/anarchist philosophy.
I started off on .world for a month until I found my instance.
Your list supporting Republicans means you must support Trump. right?
I mean you can’t have it both ways. Nixon created the EPA, Nixon was Republican, therefore Republican policy is to put the environment first. That’s what you are arguing.
That is absolutely not what I’m saying. I’m correcting objectively false claims you’re making; environmental laws were not all Democrats, the Democrats did not do anything at the federal level to pass, “full gay rights with marriage,” and the meme and OP did not say, “both sides bad.” Those points are a statement of fact, not an argument.
If you have to go back 50 years to find an example of when Republicans were good for the environment, you proved my point.
It’s no different than, “Republicans are the party of Lincoln!”
First reply: “Giving Nixon credit for the EPA means you support Republicans and therefore Trump.”
Second reply: “NIxon was so long ago he doesn’t count.”
You can’t have it both ways. You can’t claim pointing out a good thing Nixon did means I support modern Republicans while also claiming Nixon happened so long ago that he’s not connected to modern Republicans.
It’s also just factually wrong to say, “it was so long ago, its like saying they’re the anti-slavery party.” Nixon represents the turning point for the Republican party, where they abandoned their support for Civil Rights and embraced the Southern Strategy. He’s basically the turning point for where the Republicans became the party we know today. He’s the reason it’s bullshit to point out Republicans are the party of Lincoln.
It’s also just factually wrong to say, “it was so long ago, its like saying they’re the anti-slavery party.” Nixon represents the turning point for the Republican party, where they abandoned their support for Civil Rights and embraced the Southern Strategy.
Those two sentences are in exact conflict with each other. You say “it’s too long ago when Republicans were different” isn’t a valid argument." Then in the very next sentence you say, “it was long ago when Republicans were completely different.”
WTF?
No, dude…just…no. You tried to claim that saying, “a Republican founded the EPA,” and, “Republicans ended slavery,” were the same, even though there was a century of history between those events. More importantly, Nixon is exactly the person you don’t want to make that argument about, since Nixon is the very person who pivoted the party towards its modern strategy of using the politics of racial aggrievement to get working-class whites to vote against their self-interests. Going back to the Civil War, or even the early Civil Rights era, things get ideologically murky, but you can draw a straight line between Trump and Nixon.
You say “it’s too long ago when Republicans were different” isn’t a valid argument.
He didn’t say that. You did.
He pointed out your hypocrisy when you said that stating the fact that Nixon created the EPA must mean he’s a Republican (and a MAGAt one at that), but then turned heel and said that any politicians from 50 years ago don’t matter (likely because the political landscape then is not the same as the political landscape now, which is reasonably true - he makes this same point by saying 1860 Republicans are not the same as 1960 Republicans or 2025 Republicans).
You stated he’s a Republican, then dissolved your own claim by saying support for past Republicans doesn’t matter. You’ve closed your own logic loop.
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If you’re talking about the Respect for Marriage Act, that was passed a decade after the Supreme Court established gay marriage as the law of the land. The overturning of Roe made Democrats decide that they should codify gay marriage, since they saw how badly failing to codify abortion rights turned out. It also reopens the door for Civil Unions and passed with large Republican support, so I wouldn’t exactly call it a huge win for Democrats.
As for the EPA, I’m not sure what you’re talking about, but you are absolutely incorrect. Nixon proposed the EPA and NOAA through executive order, and it was later ratified by Congress. It’s possible you’re referencing some sort of dispute Nixon had with Congress on how they intended to create the EPA, but he absolutely supported it; it was his idea.
What a stupid comment
Why can’t stating facts just be that: stating facts.
Instead, people have to insert imaginations of their interlocutor’s position so they can try to dish an “own” before asking them for clarification first.
And we wonder why discourse is broken in today’s age
If I said Republicans generally support racist policies, a reply could be the fact that Lincoln freed the slaves and was a Republican.
Stating facts like that isn’t neutral. It’s the scientific equivalent of picking out one data point from an entire study to argue against a conclusion.
Decades of lesser evil voting is why you have Trump
actually, your candidate running a dogshit campaign and telling everyone to the left of them to fuck off is why we have trump. we warned this would happen, too. anyone with a memory span longer than a pet goldfish remembers all of this.
Socially left on some issues and economically right on all issues isn’t left.
LOL no it isn’t, Trump or someone like him was an inevitability because US elections are fixed and the people who have actual power in your society, Corporate board members, want fascism.
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No “vote blue no matter who” and not demanding actual representation is how we got Trump. People got duped by a con becuase they have never seen the real thing, so anything different can look appealing to the uncritical.
Never let perfect be the enemy of good or some shit.
I love how liberals bleat this because it implies genocide is good.
No it does not. It means do something to move the needle instead of sitting on the sidelines bitching about everything while doing fuck all. I know you guys are great at mental gymnastics but that’s a stretch even by the standard on .ml
Care to explain why people are stuck on the sidelines without a viable political party to represent their interests?
Nihilism, laziness, there are plenty of reasons.
Democrats didn’t flip on gay rights until Obama, and the Supreme Court did marriage equality. (Yes better than Republicans) Democratic leadership is already trying to send trans people under the bus to try to save face with the Republicans. Both sides are bad! We need to demand more from the democrats and force them to support the working class and to never back down when talking about human rights. Right now. The Democratic party is nothing more than an enabler of our abusive and coercive government/economic systems that allows lessor evils to even exist.
Democrats didn’t flip on gay rights until Obama
And Obama didn’t flip on gay marriage until the end of his first term. Biden came out in favor of it, which forced Obama’s hand, but it wound up being the right move; it energized the base when enthusiasm was starting to wane. Then, under Obama’s leadership, they continued to do nothing to establish gay marriage at the federal level.
“But he said something vaguely positive, that’s exactly like legal enforcement of their rights!”
id like to remind you biden was a conservative running concentration camps for latinos at the border.
The Democrats didn’t do shit for gay marriage. That was the Supreme Court.
Also, Nixon created the EPA.
Spoken like a Weimar
Correct. Not to mention the midterm congressional elections that only see ~20% turnout, and even less in the congressional primaries. The overwhelming majority are retirees, who will almost always pick the most conservative option in their party. People love to complain about term limits and appeasement centrists, but they don’t show up when they actually have a say in who represents them.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/democrat-republican-elect-primary-1.6497911
It’s apparently all part of a Democratic strategy aiming to help those seen as extremist Republican candidates to secure their Republican party’s nomination. (Which Mastriano did win.)
The hope for Democrats is that those extreme Republican candidates would be much easier for Democrats to beat in the November general election. But the strategy has raised some concerns about effectiveness and whether it could have unintended consequences.
https://observer.com/2016/10/wikileaks-reveals-dnc-elevated-trump-to-help-clinton/
The memo named Trump, Sen. Ted Cruz, and Ben Carson as wanted candidates. “We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to them seriously,” the memo noted.
that was a very different party than current dnc. today’s dnc is controlled by two faced lobbyists pimps like schumer and pelosi, who will have trump win again and again than see aoc being a possibility.
in today’s dnc someone like al gore or obama will be suffocated out of primaries like bernie. heck schumer would probably have obama killed to keep dnc pro-israel
i will be surprised if aoc is not pushed out of the party by 28.
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Accepting gays is definitely the same as funding sex change for prisoners and sending them to a female prison, which was one of the most successful ads in history.
I 100% agree with you but I’d also like to point out that the EPA was made by nixon in the 70s. theyve done some good stuff too, just less
Things have been getting worse my entire life regardless of who has been in charge. It gets worse more slowly under the dems, but it still gets worse.
Why is it too much to ask for things to get even a little better?
It gets worse more slowly under the dems, but it still gets worse.
Gay marriage? DEI? Pacific Protected waters? Arctic protected from drilling? It was getting better until Republicans were elected to undo it all. The Rachet Meme is a version “both sides bad” which is what helped Republicans win.
Before you reply to me directly please understand:
- The US overthrew democracy in the country I am from
- The US installed a fascist king with secret police that terrorized my family
- Once kicked out the US supported a dictator in the neighboring country where the other half of my family lived
- The US funded both sides of a war between my country and the neighboring one that led to mass civilian deaths, one side directly by giving a dictator weapons and cash and the other side clandestinely thru laundering money by selling drugs in Latin America
- Once they lost that war turned on the dictator in the neighboring country and invented reasons to illegally invade. Twice
- Toppled the regime and left a power vacuum that consumed all my family that lived there for literally hundreds of years.
- Created material conditions in the country my family is from that forced them to leave or die
You Americans are not the good guys, your country and government is evil to its core.
You had a choice OP
- Vote to maintain a bad status quo
- Vote to make things a billion times worse via fascism
- Start a revolution
Instead you chose secret option d. Make ‘both sides equally bad’ memes to justify the acceptance of fascism.
Always vote against the fascist. Or revolt.
All 3 points are wrong. 1 There is no status quo, they have demonstrably both gone further right. Which brings me to 2 2 There is only fascism and fascism-light. Genocide Joe also built the wall, deported massively more people:
Bombed civilians in Yemen and displaced half a million people there for his genocidal proxy.
And many mor scummy thing.
3 They will never have a revolution, only placate Trump and move even further to the right to win back some votes.
And people will take it, americans are pacified and harmless, some lame protests are not ‘revolution’.
Gullible AF as shown by the massive upvotes you get from the many libs here.
They will all be hearded back into the status quo sytem by Bernie or AOC the new sheepdog puppy in training to prevent revolution or a valid 3rd party.Sad that even a non-american as yourself, not confined to thinking inside the box can be this wrong.
The other side of the uniparty thinks like you and is refusing to admit their wrongs, how bad do you have to be to not be an alternative to fascists? All of them get what they deserve.Mate, assuming youre an American, whatever you need to feel better about your inaction is up to you
Bottom line: once an Americans ability to vote is gone all your catchphrases mean nothing. The fascist is the one who will take that action.
American involvement in the middle east has worsened the situation for Palestinians since Trump was elected. That doesn’t mean Biden was anything but an awful leader but Trump is worse. Way way worse. Everything he does both foreign and domestic was enabled by those who both voted for him and those who refused to vote against him.
I’m not american, and I don’t ‘need to feel better’, I’m glad that country is destroying itself since they are all horrible, as I explained.
American involvement in the middle east has worsened the situation for Palestinians since Trump was elected.
You must be joking, there was nothing left for him to bomb in Palestine and he ruthlessly bombed Yemen, more than Trump did.
I give facts, they are not catchphrases as you demeaningly call it.
All you got is “Trump is worse”.
You should move there, you fit right in with the smug and sanctimonius libs shifting blame and vile insults at leftists for what they themselves caused.If you genuinely think things aren’t worse under Trump whilst simultaneously claiming you speak facts then I don’t know that you are capable of reason. Couple that with your apologia for excusing voting against fascism and its very obvious you’re about as left wing as Thatcher wasn’t.
They are worse for themselves, that’s all, and all they care about.
The entirety of the Dems program was “let us continue to be shitty and also ignore that little genocide… or you get Trump and expensive eggs!”
And again you are incapable of understanding voting for them is not “voting against fascism”, since they both are and continuing the status quo BS it what got them in this position in the first place. I have zero sympathy for them.
And you certainly should not have an opinion on me being left.
What are you, some English guy voting for Kid Starver and larping as a leftist?
Really, don’t bother replying, no use in talking to obstinate people.Try and parse a bit of reality. By enabling fascism by voting for it or refusing to vote against it you make the situation worse for both those in Palestine and also remove your ability to vote out the person doing this.
And here’s you going on about eggs.
you make the situation worse for both those in Palestine
No, you were just a genocide denier when it was your team doing it.
also remove your ability to vote out the person doing this.
Your whole complaint is that people didn’t vote for the people doing this.
Voting for a corporate Dem IS voting in favor of fascism.
Corporate Dems know that the only path they ever have to power is if the alternative is Republican autocracy. They’re too unpopular on their own to have any way of winning an election based on their personality or positions. They can only win by fear. Thus, they cannot actually dismantle fascism. They can’t pass reforms stripping the presidency of emergency powers to prevent it from being abused. They can’t launch a law enforcement crackdown to finally put MAGA in the ground. They need MAGA. They want MAGA. They need a giant monster standing behind them to terrify the populace into voting for them. That is the only way they can possibly win an election. In fact, they have every incentive to make that monster as big and as terrifying as possible.
Voting for a centrist Dem guarantees eventual holocaust. The Fascists will just keep becoming more extreme and violent, even when the corporate Dems are in power. The occupants of the White House will alternate between Fascists and corporate Dems, moving further to the right each cycle. Eventually they’ll start killing people by the millions. Centrist Dems are unable to prevent this. They need fascists in order to get in to power.
And there it is, “if you dare question my genocide denial, you aren’t capable of reason!”
Worse for whom?
Things haven’t changed a bit for my indigenous neighbors. They are being fucked over just as hard now, as before…
My black neighbors have noticed just as much now as before, cops still abusing their community and their still being ignored economically.
So, worse for white people? Sure.
Worse for non cis people, worse for women, worse for education, worse for immigrants, worse for people in countries being directly and indirectly threatened by your fascist president. Worse for people watching him dismantle all opposition and ultimately worse for anyone who thinks they’re going to be able to protest any of this. The fact he hasn’t made things worse for your neighbours is because he hasn’t got around to it yet. Were less than 6 months in.
Worse for non cis people
How so, specifically, that wasn’t happening prior?
worse for women
Same. How so, specifically?
worse for education
Public education, to put in the words of Lupe Fiasco:
“Your child’s future was the first to go with budget cuts If you think that hurts, then wait, here comes the uppercut The school was garbage in the first place, that’s on the up and up”
Brown people in the US have always gotten the shit end of the stick, with public education.
worse for immigrants
What if I told you that Biden was deporting people at a faster rate than Trump is?
worse for people in countries being directly and indirectly threatened by your fascist president
Like, which countries? Palestine was being genocided before Trump was elected. And we’ve been raping under developed nations for a long time. Frankly, a lot of those nations are getting a break now, with Trump’s focus on turning the imperialism inwards.
The reason it’s not worse for my neighbors, is because they were already under attack by your beloved liberal republic, and have been for centuries.
Better for all the people who were already being brutalized by the USA empire and are happy to see it collapse though.
HOW are things worse in the middle east under trump than biden? What is trump doing that is worse than supplying arms for a genocidal carpet bombing campaign like biden was?
Dude, I’m doubting you are capable of reason. Compare what you wrote:-
If you genuinely think things aren’t worse under Trump
What you are responding to.
American involvement in the middle east has worsened the situation for Palestinians since Trump was elected. That doesn’t mean Biden was anything but an awful leader but Trump is worse. Way way worse.
Those were both me. What’s your point?
Copied the wrong reply. Anyway.
Neither of you is saying Trump is better.
American involvement in the middle east has worsened the situation for Palestinians since Trump was elected.
No it hasn’t, you were just a genocide denier when it was your team doing it. In that sense, the situation is better under Trump because at least BlueMaga shitlibs like you are not denying their genocide anymore.
If Trump is walking the “way way worse” path on Palestine it’s only because Biden laid the path down for him in the first place.
The economic system in the US guarantees fascism, the rules are made up and votes are don’t matter.
I didn’t vote because I’m not American. They should revolt that is the only answer.
Votes do matter… Would’ve voted just a few more against Trump, we wouldn’t be in this (I think at this point global) mess…
Should they matter more or should the “democratic” process be quite different (more deliberate), yeah…
At this point though, we need big protests, I agree. Also just to wake up all those (not entirely lost) MAGA idiots…
Hubris is thinking a few liberal voters in america could abate a global trend toward fascism without fundamentally changing anything about our broken capitalist system.
Right, the trend so far isn’t very good, and I agree the (capitalistic) system needs a fundamental change, though electing the obvious (seemingly for half of USA not…) Auto/Idiocrat is definitely not helping…
Democrats’ inability to address what voters were actively demanding is why not enough people turned out for them.
Even in political terms, snubbing the Students for Justice in Palestine at the convention and refusing to let them speak was possibly the worst campaign decision of the last decade.
Yeah I know, it’s still a ***ing big facepalm for me, to not show up in one of if not probably the most important election, “just because” the democrats don’t follow a great agenda. As left-leaning as I am and as much as I disagree with (most) democrats, the alternative is, as we currently see sooo much worse.
I wouldn’t vote because I support what the democrats are doing, I just try to choose the lesser evil.
I’m European, and my vote is basically always strategic, I never really vote for the party that I’m really agreeing with, just the party that I’m in least disagreement with. Yes I think the democratic system in the USA (if it’s still alive) is flawed (as are basically all democracies to some degree), it’s bad, sure, but rolling out the red carpet for Trump by not voting (for the democrats) is… sorry… just dumb.
It’s sad that people rather don’t vote, and accept the fact that the states drift towards an autocratic system, than just vote for the lesser evil (or engage themselves politically).
It’s sad that people rather don’t vote, and accept the fact that the states drift towards an autocratic system, than just vote for the lesser evil (or engage themselves politically).
Maybe it’s sad, sure, but it’s far from unusual. In the US, average eligible voter turnout fluctuates between 50-65%. In 2020 it was 65.3% (the highest ever recorded), and in 2024 it was 63.5%, the second-highest. Eligible voters end up not voting for a bunch of reasons, but the biggest reason is usually because they (rightly) feel like the choice has little actual impact on their day-to-day life. Even if you’re relying on the ‘most important election of our lifetime’ motivation (the same rhetoric that’s been used for the last 5-6 elections at least), many of those people are white middle-lower-class adults - those people don’t believe they’d be the ones targeted by mass deportations or political imprisonment anyway. Granted, that’s a short-sided reason not to vote, but let’s not act surprised by low-income americans having a bit of an optimism bias (since they are consistently the largest pool of eligible voters).
You simply cannot expect every eligible voter to turnout for you if you aren’t giving them compelling reasons to do so. But even in relative terms, the 2024 election was still only 1.7% behind the highest-ever turnout for a presidential election in our lifetime - american voters certainly did turn out, and many who abstained from voting were engaged. The problem is that they no longer believe the democrats actually represent their interests, and so went shopping elsewhere or didn’t vote at all (or split their ticket). Blaming those voters without asking yourself why there were more of them this election is nothing more than political masturbation.
And just a reminder that the democratic party does actually have members in its caucus that have a higher than 60% approval rating nationwide, but for some reason they chose not to run those candidates
we wouldn’t be in this (I think at this point global) mess…
We were in this mess before the election
Bullshit.
Very compelling argument
Likewise.
Not in at this level though…
Right now it’s not even clear if there is another meaningful election. And I don’t think I have to mention what happened just in the last few months since the inauguration of Trump…
This wouldn’t have happened when Harris would’ve been elected, I’m sure of.
I agree totally. All the upper-middle class socialists in this thread have no doubt been setting this in action.
Or they’ve been doing nothing but navel gazing on Lemmy.
What gov database do you have access to that tells you the financial status of lemmy users in this thread
You supported a genocide.
Really? You’re assuming of course that I’m am American citizen, which I’m not, or didn’t attend numerous protests to support Palestinians in the country I do live in, which I did.
The whole world is not the USA.
shut the fuck up you fucking weenie
you have an opinion until you can be criticized for it then “oh I don’t live there”
pick a lane
punk ass loser
And what pry tell did your protests accomplish, Protests are easy for the ruling class to ignore if they so chose. Did your protest make it uncomfortable for them to exist, did you disrupt trafic, cram the government building past building code forcing some of them to be unable to get to their office, block cars from leaving the parking lot?
So did you.
Lol. The absolute state of BlueMAGA; reduced to “no, u!”
When there’s no wiggle room to try to absolve themselves of allowing and abetting the circus horror show they worship to continue working as intended (because they need it to live comfortably knowing full well that others thousands of KMs away can’t), all that’s left is a simple “no u”.
Westoid chauvinists/jingoists, especially libs who are arguably the most depraved of them all, are fucking annoying to engage with knowing this fact.
Seriously, nobody twists themselves into just incoherent and nonsense rhetorical knots as much as BlueMAGA libs. even the red variety are more coherent.
red variety: “yes actually we are racist and actually hate your guts”
blue: “yes but no but actually but maybe, perhaps, mayhaps, blue eyes, whataboutism, consider the alternative, juxtapose this to that, for instance, in short, in closing, blonde hair matters”
Basically, but with a lot self-righteousness and left-punching.
I mean, you randomly stated they supported a genocide. But yall are cool with letting the repubs win and getting one at home.
Oh, right, we wont have one at home. This time its being outsourced.
???
I assume you responded to the wrong post.
I wanted to not be genocided
So do we, but apparently the USA has made genocide a bipartisan consensus.
Vote to make things a billion times worse
Your daily reminder that blueMAGA liberals don’t consider Palestinians human
(I’m also curious how they determined op is an American eligible voter in a swing state)
I guess the same way you assumed I am?
I didn’t, but I realise “no, U!” Is all you have, so you’re going to cram it in regardless.
So when you referred to my comment as 'blueMAGA liberals ’ you weren’t referring to what I said?
I was.
So you called me a bluemaga liberal but simultaneously you didn’t assume I was am American voter? Lol, whatever.
There’s no requirement to be an American voter to be blueMAGA. A fact that it is so obvious that I can only conclude you’re playing dumb on purpose.
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Well that’s a completely incoherent non-sequitor, but that’s also all BlueMAGA has left.
Which Ukrainians?
- The oligarchs?
- The Banderites?
- The eastern & southern Ukrainians, who, after the Maidan coup, declared independence from an unelected government, and were subsequently terrorized by the Banderites for nearly a decade, with tacit and overt support from the Ukrainian and US governments?
- The men being pulled off the streets and pushed to the front lines against their will?
.
Previously. Previously.
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Who took away our option to vote to make things better?
The first past the post election system did.
If you want things to get better in elections, you need to get rid of primaries. Instead implement a voting scheme where you aren’t punished for ranking your desires honestly.
In the current system, the only votes that matter are the ones for the two leading candidates. Any other vote is equivalent to not voting.
Start a revolution
Why do people keep smugly citing this as the third option when there are a million better options before outright rebellion?
As if any rights or liberties we’ve won as a working class have ever come from anything other than violent opposition and disruption.
Revolution is the only option for long-term gains, rather than short-term concessions. As long as the bourgeoisie controls the state, they will use it to wind back any concessions they give out temporarily.
Sure, but you don’t get to revolution without many smaller escalations
Libs harp on that word because it sounds rightly ridiculous to an american, but say ‘armed protest’ and suddenly it sounds a lot more realistic.
Revolution requires organizing, and that’s indeed a long and drawn out process. However, armed protest implies disorganization and loose aims, not the direct goal of overthrowing and replacing the bourgeois state with a proletarian one.
I think the Democratic Party is more to blame for running a Status Quo candidate when there’s so much dissatisfaction with the state of things. When people are angry, the guy who blows up the system is more appealing than the person trying to maintain it. You gotta actually promise to overhaul things, that’s how Obama won.
Here is the education that you need to take over the Democratic Party:
David Hogg, the new Vice Chair of the DNC, has allocated $20M to primary out the old appeasers, and replace them with youthful progressives to create a true opposition party.
Democratic primaries only see ~20% turnout in congressional elections. 30/50 states have partisan primaries, meaning you must be registered as a Democrat to vote in the Democratic primary. This was a contributing factor in Bernie’s 2016 loss.
Rather than progressives and leftists fracturing over third-parties, we need to all block vote progressives into the Democratic Party through primaries and replace the deadwood centrists that have been content with the status quo.
Check your state’s primary type here: https://ballotpedia.org/Primary_election_types_by_state
This was a contributing factor in Bernie’s 2016 loss.
I am from the Bronx. I was a registered democrat my entire life. Somehow when my wife and I went to vote in 2016, after making sure we were registered, we were turned away from the polls because “we weren’t registered”
2 years later I started receiving the letters and was suddenly registered again.
The reason Bernie lost in 2016 is your fucking party threw us off the rolls because of who we are and where we lived. Your fucking party stole that election. You are full of shit and it is you that is a fascist enabler by making an excuse for corruption.
It’s not my party. I’ve been left of the Democrats since the 90s. It’s the party that more closely aligns with my values between the only two that can win a US Presidential Election.
I believe you, and I’m sure you’re not the only one with that problem. I didn’t say it was the reason Bernie lost, because I’m fully aware of Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Hillary’s collusion, but it was a contributing factor.
I volunteered to direct foot traffic for the general election, and chatted up several other volunteers about the disappointing results of the primary. They told me that they couldn’t believe how many registered independents and no party affiliation voters they had to turn away. Apparently partisan primary requirements aren’t common knowledge, so I’m sharing this information to prevent other people from having the same experience.
What you described is a big issue. I feel it shows just how much there needs to be a push for change nationally and within each of the states to lobby the Democratic Party for change. Some states have open primaries, some have closed, and others have semi-open primaries. It makes no sense for states to not just be semi-open or fully open for primaries, as closed primaries just further alienates the party from potential voters.
It’s not my party
It’s enough your party that you’re willing to do genocide denial for them
As someone that voted Bernie in 2016, we didn’t have the votes in 2016 for Bernie to make it through the primary. The country itself was not as progressive in 2016 as it is now imo, especially so for the Democratic base.
For Bernie to have even had a chance to win the primary, the election format would have needed to not be First Past the Post. He was a victim of vote splitting found in First Past the Post and then establishment Dems allocated their voters votes to go towards Hillary. I don’t think it was fair what happened to Bernie especially with the DNC, but I realize now it was a flaw of the system itself that makes it extremely difficult for a progressive to win a Democratic presidential primary. I think it makes zero sense why people can’t pick their favorite candidate(s) first and then pick backup ‘safe’ candidates for elections. Also there is the issue of some states excluding people not registered with a party from voting in the primary. I feel it is a bad move to prevent these voters at the primary level since non-affiliated voters are usually the ones that ultimately decide the elections and they can give input ahead of time if they would vote for that candidate in the general election.
Having ranked robin voting, STAR voting, or score voting would help prevent a popular candidate like Bernie from losing by default to a ‘safe’ establishment pick.
Edit: Trust me, I would like to be wrong about 2016 and just how progressive country as a whole was at the time. But we’re really backwards in a lot of ways, especially so back then. The bulk of older voters were at most were economically voting for Democrats, not on social or economic policy by and large.
David Hogg
Be unarmed if you wish, but don’t choose for other people how they defend themselves.
The Democrats will not defend us, the justice system will not defend us. We are on our own.
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There are only a few legitimate swing states, votes outside swing states don’t matter
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In no swing state did third party votes supercede the difference between Kamala and Trump votes. Ie, even if every third party voter, Libertarians included, voted Kamala, she still would’ve lost.
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Even under the Democrats, “No Rights” is still the party platform.
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Leftists have always supported revolution as the only legitimate means of enacting change, while liberals aid in the constant rightward spiral. Voting is an incredibly small level of political activism, organizing is far more effective.
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The DNC were enacting a genocide of Palestinians.
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I dont get it.
OPs cartoon makes it clear that the dems are oposed to left-wing policies, so commie guy refused to vote against his interests.
The problem isnt commie guy, it’s all the other brainless sheep who keep voting for the same two parties who don’t represent them.
Consider this: if all the people forced to vote opted to vote someone else, then the Dems would really understand why they’re failing, and more, you’d have the basis for an actual third party to from.
But instead you and other dimwits keep preaching the same old 2 party rethoric who has been fucking you over for decades.
You just have a stupid voting system
You spent the whole elections saying that leftists were an irrelevant Demographic who could be safely ignored. And you’ll be saying it again come the next election. It’s only when you need someone to blame a loss on that they matter.
Can you tell us how the Dems are going to reform the voting system so that people’s choices are fairly represented? No? They have no plans for that because they perceive themselves as beneficiaries of a broken electoral system? Wow it’s almost as if they’re self interested crooks themselves
Edit: people downvoting this are the same people who’d hear about coca cola paramilitaries in South America and then switch to Fanta, thinking they’re voting with their wallets
Good. Since we’re the deciding factor, we have increased influence and more negotiating power going forward. Now the democrats (whose slogan is also “No rights!”) might actually listen to our demands next time if they don’t want to eat shit again.
And if they still won’t, then it’s obviously necessary to replace them and that has to start somewhere.
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hey man remember when the democrats were in the house and senate and obama was president and they dismantled ACORN? haha damn that’s wild, bro.
This fact doesn’t really invalidate the initial statement though.
We would not be experiencing what we are currently experiencing presently if the Dems won. This isn’t an endorsement of the Dems, just reality
I view voting as a means to steer us to possibilities. Revolution and change won’t come through the ballot box but who gets voted in can influence that one way or another.
Dear Liberals,
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I am so glad I can’t see the bullshit from lemmy.world on my server
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Your economic system guarantees fascism. You can’t vote your way out of it. Capitalist modes of production inevitably concentrate power and lead to fascism. It is unavoidable.
it was nice talking at you too hamid
do you still live in Iran?
just wanted to let you know the top comment was in opposition to your opinion
you seem to have defederated from us so maybe your instance and ones like it should defederate completely to make your life easier
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I try to remind people that we have no “Leftist” party or even a “Centre left” party anymore. We have Center right and far right now.
The Democrats suck but there’s a huge difference between voting for boring corporatists and 100% concentrated evil. Don’t make me tap the chart.
That’s right, everybody knows that the left and the right are perfectly equally bad, and the act of voting to stop the bleeding and starting a revolution are mutually exclusive /s
And then after years of this nonsense, people wonder how the poor voter turnout that got the fascist elected happened.
This is why revolution and working class organization is necessary.
Also funny when people complain about Leftists critiquing the Dems. Pre-election you said to wait, now it’s post election and the same complaints arise.
Blue MAGA: Its always never the time for criticism.
"First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can’t agree with your methods of direct action;” who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a “more convenient season.”
Shallow understanding from people of goodwill is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection." - mlk jr
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The absolute highest priority in American politics should be getting rid of the 2 party system. I’m not going to pretend to know how exactly, but I think a good step in the right direction would be some form of a ranked voting system.
I’m not American but there’s so many socialists on here refusing to vote for the lesser evil because they don’t offer the right candidates and advocating revolution.
why not take a page from the right’s clearly successful playbook and vote more in local politics and primaries. Maga managed to turn the republicans into exactly what they wanted this way, but the American left just sits there waiting for someone to start a revolution.
well I understand it might be late now and elections might not do much going forward, but jesus it’s like the only option you guys saw is voting for whoever the parties put toward or revolution.
You can always count on @hamid@vegantheoryclub.org to get most rabbid libs stirred up and face their own contradictions (without taking away any insights from the posts themselves anyway lol)…
Literally every post that just puts the quiet part loud upsets them, lol. Please keep it up, love to see it.
