I literally will not ever daily use a keyboard if it doesn’t have a number pad.
Any time I’m forced to temporarily use anything without a num pad I feel like I’m driving a car that’s missing half it’s steering wheel or something. It just feels wrong.
I downsized a while back due to switching to a smaller desk, and it does feel weird.
I can input lots of numbers very fast without looking down with a num pad. I cannot do that with the number row. I have to look down at some point and it’s much slower.
Amen.
I’ve been using a wireless mechanical 100% keyboard for years. Love it so much I bought a duplicate, so I have a spare when it’s time to run one through the dishwasher!
The…the what now?
You’ve never cleaned your keyboard in the dishwasher?
Hot water, don’t use detergent, and let any washed electronics dry completely before use is the method I use.
i reckon one can only do this with very soft water?
What, you don’t want your keys to crunch when you press them?
At the same time you charge your iPhone in the microwave oven at 10% power.
just map it to a layer bro
Not the same. A functional num pad needs to be in a strict grid pattern to work. The keys need to be column aligned so they can be felt and the num pad used without looking at it.
get an ortho then
It needs to be ≥ 100% for me
I just learned how to type numbers quickly without a numpad. It’s truly a skill issue if you need a numpad lol
Me playing modded Minecraft:
What was the disable jetpack button again?
Keeb goes hard ngl
What is that beautiful monstrosity?
That’s a hyper7. If youve got a pathological need for a billion keys and £700 to drop you can’t go far wrong. Although you may have to spend a little more to reinforce your desk and remove a wall to get it in your house lol
Try DCS.
I see a distinct lack of F13-F15, assuming 1.12.2 or 1.7.10 (1.13 and newer added F16-F25)
That would be a nice post on !mechanical_keyboards@programming.dev
Man, I could have all of that and still be like “Shit where do I put Building Gadget Mode Switch???”
It so pretty doe
You find it and the key is still shared with three other keybinds
Me unbinding the mysterious functions that share the key “I’ll worry about that once I know what that even means”
My copy of Keyboard Maestro sent off fireworks when it saw those macro rows
A keyboard without a numpad is like a cock without a foreskin.
Stupid as fuck, but some people don’t know any better
That analogy is a work of art. So casually out of pocket
On my desktop, I need that num pad.
On the go, I loathe my laptop keyboard and mouse, and bring a 60% and a mouse. Easy to fit in the bag for travel if I’m setting up shop somewhere for a few days or more. Also a dock so I can hook it up to the hotel TV or conf room display easily if they are behind the times.
So you can pull the skin to reveal your numpad?
part of it is that on 75% the numpad is optional, and it gives you more desk space for other things
While I love my full-sized keyboard, respectfully - who cares. The whole idea of a PC is the freedom to use whatever you want.
Keyboards, controllers, speech to text, a wii-mote, literal bananas/bread, eye/blink trackers, whatever suits you best. Insisting there’s a best device for everyone doesn’t change people’s minds and just leads to hostility when we should be glad more people are using the device that makes them happy. One day you might be one of them when your circumstances or preferences change.
Full-size is objectively superior, everything else is a mitigation for sub-optimal circumstances.
If you have reduced desk space and need to conserve your keyboard size to allow more room for a mouse then absolutely, pick as small a keyboard as you’re comfortable with to get sufficient mousing space.
Anything beyond that is subjective personal preference, which again I have no qualms with, but calling it better without further qualification is going to invite incredulity.
If a full-sized keyboard provides all the keys you reasonably need to do your tasks efficiently, then yes a full-sized keyboard is superior. But that is just not the use case for everyone, hence why it can’t be objectively so. Unless you want to imply that more keys even if you don’t need them is better anyways.
If so, you could argue this monstrosity of a keyboard (or something even bigger) is what everyone should be using if they have the space, since it has way more buttons than a full-sized keyboard, making it even more objectively superior. In reality you would not use more than 30% of the buttons on that keyboard, so the rest might as well not exist. But if you are, I don’t know, some macro-wizard playing 4 instances of WoW at the same time, maybe it is objectively superior for your needs, but for me a normal sized keyboard would do.
But to try and sense where you’re coming from, it should also be said that someone telling you their choice is better and disregarding that your criteria aren’t the same as theirs is being silly as well. And sometimes they can be stubborn and agitated about that as well - exactly the kind of hostility I meant in my initial comment. But someone’s got to step up and swallow their pride and accept it really is just all subjective at the end of the day.
My biggest problem with that “monstrosity” is that it’s ortholinear.
You imply that such a thing being “optimal” is absurd, but if you had infinite usable desk space then what, exactly, would be the argument against it? If space is not a consideration then what does it matter if you don’t use every key?
Lots of people like smaller keyboards, and that’s perfectly fine. I get it as an aesthetic choice, and for many people it may not impact their daily use at all. But you will not convince me that removing the option of having additional keys for binding is a non-zero cost, even if they’re not currently being used.
For what it’s worth, I never used anything like that monstrosity, but I was quite happy with my G15 for the time that I had it which had 18 additional keys, plus media control, over a typical full size.
but if you had infinite usable desk space then what, exactly, would be the argument against it?
So I guess we agree then. Circumstances make something more or less optimal, meaning they are not objectively more optimal in every situation. That was my entire point, nothing more.
the main advantage of full sized keebs iirc is that some programs have key combos involving F keys or home/end and don’t support changing the mapping (Minecraft shakes fist at sky F3+g)
That’s true, and if that’s the case then that definitely changes the choice. Although, afaik these smaller keyboards often come with software to remap keys or add macro’s at the driver level. (And for this choice specifically, 75% keyboard and higher do seem to mostly have both F keys and home/end). But yeah, some people’s use consist of just writing emails and streaming video, in which case they won’t care about any of that.
No one has discussed split keyboards, which offer all the benefits of a full size and addresses ergonomic concerns across the board. Need only half your keyboard today? Done and done.
Need ALL the keyboard, we gotchu.
This is objectively superior, as it saves you from RSI.
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I really cannot tell if this is sarcasm or not.
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100% or bust!
Get a larger desk. No way I’m typing numbers not on a keypad
I’m pulling my separate numpad out when I know I’ll be entering a lot of numbers. Or reach over to it when I enter a PIN from muscle memory. Otherwise I toss it to the side.
I use this occasionally when i need to do a lot of number typing whilst using my mouse so i can relax my arm to the side rather than reaching across the KB and straining the muscle behind my shoulderblade.
?
Seek professional help
Defect production
Split keyboards with trackballs are amazing! I don’t know how I managed without
Would be a good post on !mechanical_keyboards@programming.dev
I went up to a comfortable 110 WPM.
Excluding numbers.
I don’t need the numpad. But no function keys? That’s insane.
They just become like laptops with a Fn+# key. It’s not like they are ‘gone’. Same thing with home/end/etc.
I’m not a fan of that, personally.
sorry but I agree. numpad masterrace. say no to degenerate keyboards.
I have a full-sized and a 96%. I don’t know how people live without a numpad. Even my laptop has a numpad. I don’t do excel shit. But at work I have to enter alot of phone and CC numbers. At home I use the numpad for rating photos when sorting and importing them.
I use the number pad for various keybinds in games where there are too many things to control with the keys I regularly use.
Are you Grubby? No actual human uses number pad for keybinds in games, only game Gods who learned before there were real alternatives.
The numpad is still a popular option in roguelikes. It’s also worth noting that sometimes the ortholinear layout of numpad keys is more appropriate than the staggered layout of letter keys.
I use it for keybinds that I don’t use very often, but still need on occasion. Frees up the other keys for more important stuff. Very useful for weapon hotkeys in games like Fallout when I have a ton of guns.
Yeah 96% is great for me. I work in commercial credit analysis and I’m constantly typing numbers (account numbers/financial information/etc) so not having a number pad would suck. I work from home like 75% of the time and my work space is shared with my personal computing space. I have 1 keyboard that’s Bluetooth so I can swap between my personal desktop, personal laptop, and my work laptop. Same with my mouse. Sometimes I do think about getting a smaller keyboard and adding a separate numpad that can tuck out of the way when I’m not working as I don’t use it much for personal computing.
I don’t know how people live without a numpad
Simple, they don’t need to do all those specific things you use yours for!
Long live the numpad!
I went from a 100% membrane to a 60% mechanical, then a ~63% (think the 60% one but ONLY with extra arrow keys) then to a tenkeyless minus some of the useless keys, now to a full tenkeyless one
Here’s what I have. Honestly it’s perfect.
That’s my current keyboard too! (Except the NES color-scheme)
They recently came out with a full-size version, which is tempting me.
What model is this?
It’s made by 8bitdo:
https://www.8bitdo.com/retro-mechanical-keyboard/
And here’s the full size: https://www.8bitdo.com/retro-108-mechanical-keyboard/
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I’m kind of intrigued by this one… What’s it called??
DataHand, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand
Thanks! I’m gonna go check that out.
If you want a modern one, check out the Svalboard.
That’s the DataHand, one of the few novel text-entry devices in the last few decades. It’s sadly no longer made but ifyou want a modern one, check out the Svalboard.
The Svalboard is made by one guy in California with FOSS firmware based on QMK/Vial. He took it on because his DataHand, which had enabled him to keep working with a wrist injury, broke and no parts were available.
I got one myself after near disabling wrist RSI. I don’t type as fast as I used to (yet) but I am able to work with a lot less pain.
Thanks for that. It’s nice to see an assembled option. The lalboard looked a bit intimidating. I’ve been starting to develop daily wrist pain after working for a few hours and I’m looking for a decent option that lets me keep going without ending up crippled.
I was a cashier, then a bookkeeper during the time when both heavily used the “10-key” and got really fast at touch typing numbers. Not as fast now, but I would be absolutely lost without it for spreadsheets, calculations, etc. I wouldn’t even consider a keyboard without one!
