First off, didn’t know if I should post this here, or over on the mental health board. Being focused on the interpersonal, though, I’ll slap it here. Please lemme know if I should take it outside.
Second, and as a preface (maybe even the main hint I should’ve taken, but we’ll see later on), I’m looking for a nuanced answer. I have been told that “I should go vegan if I’m allergic to veal” a lot of times before, but to my mind it’s way too vehement a change for something which, as dictated by my gut, holds more nuance than that. I know it’s not the standard way of doing things, but it’s how I want to try to do them for now, at least.
Thirdly, I say everything from my perspective, I state solely my opinion, and draw conclusions exclusively based on my limited set of experiences, so please don’t take anything I say as universally applicable or as supreme truth, because I don’t, either.
So, ok, onward to the thick of it. It’s about my pattern in attraction and in choosing potential partners. So far, I’ve primarily ended up in pretty toxic relationships, even when consciously and actively seeking something healthier as guided by my therapists. It’s usually been the anxious <> avoidant dance with varying comorbid ancillaries such as reciprocally triggering each others’ trauma responses, codependent <> BPD, etc., etc.
Now, my problem with all of this is that while I can recognise the mismatches and pain points when I see them - I’ve, unfortunately, become familiar with the dynamics of this situation, as well as the plethora of tiny little variations brought about by the different typologies of trauma clusters, I seem to be attracted primarily to characteristics which, so far, seem to be a package deal with the aforementioned unpleasantness. Even called out several incoming landmines to my therapists based on instinct in some previous relationships, which meant I started to manage avoiding the shitstorm which inevitably occurs at one point as this type of dynamic unfolds.
To note that I keep an eye out for red flags, as realistically and as attentively as possible, because I have physical abuse on my Bingo card and really don’t want to have to go through hiding sharp things in my house so that my partner won’t have easy access to any again. I really want something safe for myself, if anything at all, and am genuinely trying. But this shit pops up even months later, with no outward signs beforehand, and I have no idea how to account for things I can’t see.
This, then, is my question: am I intrinsically attracted to that which harms me like a magnet, unconsciously, do I have fuck-me-up-dar? Or is there a possibility of having the cake and eating it, too, like, meet someone who is thoroughly fucked up (as am I), but who is keeping it in check? Because, yes, I am attracted to the existential grit brought about by hardships. I like someone with dirty hands, someone who has good reasons to not be optimistic or generally cheerful, someone who has seen the things beneath the flesh and is now knee-deep in the abyss. Being miserable together is beautiful and nothing can dissuade me of it. Can the two exist separately?
Because I tried going for the “safer” people and, without the slightest intent of condescension, it always ended up feeling very platonic on my end. It felt like interacting with an immense innocence and I couldn’t allow myself to unfold, as it would’ve been like exposing dandelions to high levels of radiation to my mind. I couldn’t reach romance, as my romance is inextricably and irredeemably influenced by who I am. My love, though sincere, is tarnished and more than a bit charred. And I don’t want to be a loved one’s harsh reality, that is one role which I wholeheartedly avoid playing. Which is why I seek someone likewise tarnished and more than a bit charred. I even tried “same, but different,” in which personality varied greatly from my base while still presenting some behavioural common ground, and I ended up receiving the aforementioned physical abuse…
I also welcome (and thank you for) any other insights you may have pertaining to this situation, even if not directly related to my question!
One question. It’s clear that you’re trying to better yourself and heal, by making conscious effort and taking concrete steps towards trying to be a healthier person.
Are your “broken” partners also making similar efforts and taking clear, measurable steps towards healing, or do they tend to be more set in their negative behaviors?
I can tell you this much, I have never entered a relationship (i.e. anything more than “third date” territory) with anyone who showed signs of not seeking growth. Negative behaviours (with a certain degree of nuance in what I mean by that) are red flags to me, no exceptions. I try to understand the person, to sympathise and empathise as much as my principles allow, but if I see someone whistling at a waiter, for instance, I’m done and heading home. If said negative behaviours are solely oriented toward themselves and they are obviously taking care not to do splash damage, then that’s a different thing. But it’s acceptable to me precisely because there is intentionality behind that, that, while the cause isn’t fixed, that monster is being monitored and kept secure until a better and more permanent solution is found.
As an example, the one who punched me (and, to be clear, I’m not talking frustration punch in the arm, I’m talking furiously and repeatedly punching me in the face - intentionality, but in a different direction, I guess…). She seemed to be healthy. She even seemed to have her shit more tightly packed than I did, to be honest. Going to therapy for several years, saying the right words, displayed humility, the whole nine yards. This lasted for several months, after which her words and her actions started slowly slipping out of phase, until they were essentially contradicting eachother. I stayed a bit too long in this one because after every blowout there would come the period of discussion, where we would again seem to reach consensus. Then it’d be ok for a few weeks/months, then, again, gradual decline toward full blowout. I got tired of that rollercoaster eventually…
A different relationship ended due to my partner’s lingering suspicions from a past relationship, where she became convinced that my asking things about how her day was going was me trying to be controlling. I again ended this one when it became clear that her convictions had priority over anything I could have said or done. And, again, this showed up much later in the unfolding of things, as she non-euphemistically got triggered and her trauma response solidified.
Thank you for the response. Offering advice beyond where you already are is a little outside my pay grade, so I’ve nothing more to offer unfortunately. Maybe this extra detail can help others hone in with their own thoughts, though.
The reason you find the types you’re going for more intriguing is because they feel familiar, they feel like what you know… I’m going to guess they’re pretty similar to what you grew up with or knowing. Learning that hit me hard, because I can definitely relate to how you date, hugely.
Unknown comes with a level of nervous system stress that you aren’t ready to confront. They behave in different ways, you don’t know what they’re feeling or what will set them off and that not knowing has a huge amount of impending Doom to it, because unpredictable is terrifying, when you have been raised in violence.
The people you’re choosing are the devil you know. That feels safer. You can’t imagine, on a fundamental level, that people come without that level of violence you grew up seeing. So the ones who aren’t that same familiar choice, sub consciously you see them as just as capable of incredible violence, but it’s a complete unknown, which feels like it’s going to expose you to extreme levels of new traumas. So you shut down towards them, and can’t form connections, sub consciously it feels to dangerous.
I should probably have put this disclaimer before I wrote all this, but I am not a mental health professional and I’m just reflecting some things I’ve found that I feel might fit, just a layperson who has walked a similar walk, and tried to find the why, these were some I found, I don’t know if any of them fit for you.
You seem really cool, I love your brain, I love the way you think, you are really astute and self aware. You have a great grasp on what’s going on around you and you can really see the forest for the trees. It’s so rare to find that level of insight, I really enjoyed reading what you wrote.
I don’t really know what the answer is. The more you work at this, the better you’ll get at it. You are able to spot a lot of it, with such a keen eye, maybe take it one step at a time, rather than fix it all at once or make big changes. What are some deal breakers you feel you might need to put in place? What behaviours definitely, always lead somewhere super bad? You have real expertise here. You can still date amongst the people you are choosing, but what boundaries or deal breakers do you need to put in place to protect yourself, to keep your world aligned with all the hard work you’re putting in, and keep aligned with the ideals you’re building for yourself. Who is walking in the same direction as you. Who is capable of the hard work and self reflection, similarly, that you dedicate yourself to. Find someone who can walk with you, and isn’t dragging you off path. Someone focused on the same goals.
There is no hierarchy. That bullspit is all an illusion. You are just as worthy and valued and and deserving of all the things as any of us in a meat suit. When you are more able to see that truth, it’s easier to walk away when others don’t treat you well. When you believe in the core of yourself that you aren’t lesser, it almost impossible to stay with someone who treats you as such. There are good people out there, who want to work and build amazing versions of themselves, like you. Find your people. You got this, already, though. You know. The fact you even ask, that you are already able to see toxic that goes too far, you need to give yourself more credit, you’re already a wiz at this. Just be patient and keep choosing you.
See, that’s the weird thing, I know exactly what the pattern is pointing toward, and it’s myself. I am looking for someone similar to me. I actually see and steer clear of familiar behaviours which I’ve received from other people who’ve had a role to play in my traumas because I know those are a surefire way toward being abused. I don’t espouse them, either, for the same reasons - I pride myself with having learnt from others’ mistakes.
This is why I’m so damned confused about the feasibility of this tightrope I’m trying to walk. Because I know it’s possible to be both healthy, functional and live with your demons openly, I’m living proof of that to myself. But the string of disappointments seems to indicate that it’s not actually all that common, which sucks.
As for the devil I know, I know I try to not be one, honestly, which is part of the reason why I’m looking for something similar. I somehow hope that similarity is also an indicator of values and intentionality, and while it has somewhat been a useful benchmark, it seems to be missing a level of nuance which leads to things slipping past my net. And I have no idea how to adjust.
And related to the safe unknowns, it’s never been fear, because I both give everyone the benefit of the doubt by default and also understand every individual’s innate potential for destruction. I have seen the best and the worst in humans, they don’t scare me anymore. They just annoy and, in extreme cases, anger me. The trouble with the safe choices is their innocence, I meant what I said. Interacting with a person who sincerely doesn’t know the truth behind things is a very specific kind of exhausting and yet another type of walking on eggshells from my perspective. And it’s heartbreaking, because I know from the start that some things they will never understand about me until they themselves go through them. And I also meant what I said about not wanting to be anyone’s harsh awakening, because I understand that who I am intrinsically poses that risk to someone who still has that kind of innocence. It’s a very big turn-off, and it’s an especially sucky one, because it really isn’t the other person’s fault.
And, yeah, I echo everything you said about the power plays one sees in many relationships. And I’m honestly so fucking tired of that shit, those annoying little mind games and flash tests… I’m just too old for that shit, y’know? I’m looking for someone down-to-earth, who’s dropped their pretences and who’s in it for equal take, be it in getting drunk at the banquet, or dealing with the morning after, so to speak. The main things I seek are companionship, collaboration and mutual understanding, someone with whom to plow through life, as I said. I’m solitary and monogamous, I have very few people close to me at any given time because that’s how I’d rather have it. A partner is more than just “a girlfriend” to me, I don’t even know how to properly express the complexity behind it.
Thank you so much for your kind words! I wished so much for this to not be yet another one of those situations in which your gut was right from the start, kinda’ hoped for an easy fix, that couple of words which’d make things click in my head. A-wadin’ i shall continue to go, I guess…
Personally, it sounds like you need to repair yourself before seeking out relationships. If you’re miserable and seeking company, I don’t think you’re going to find that makes for a good relationship foundation. You’re going to therapy which is a great idea. But I get the sense you’re not taking the possibility that you’re unhappy seriously enough. Based on your description, you’re unhappy and “fucked up” and want someone just like that. That’s not going to end well in any regard. This is coming from someone with a long history of mental health struggles who has also found themselves in similar relationships.
You’re going to need to see therapy as a way to get past that fucked up self. I ended up taking SSRIs. I needed medication to heal. It took me a long time before finally admitting that, but it changed my life. I believe you need to find something to help you truly heal yourself whether it’s medication, CBT, group therapy, etc. You don’t have to be fucked up and pessimistic forever. Being optimistic and/or having stability doesn’t mean you’re naive to the world around you. It doesn’t mean you have to change your worldviews entirely. It just means you’re not actively destroying yourself as a result of your worldviews.
I just can’t imagine two miserable people making a good relationship. Someone will always seek out a way to find pleasure or relief from that misery: cheating, drug abuse (not just drug use), abuse of each other, etc.
I’m not a therapist, but I’ve dealt with depression for decades. That’s just my 2 cents.
Thank you for your answer and sincerity, I’m sorry you’ve been in these parts before…
I have to say, though, I think I’m past my depression, which my therapists agree. And, yes, I am unhappy, but I’m not closed off to the possibility of happiness, I do wholeheartedly believe it is possible, and on the other hand have grown enough to have realised that I don’t even need happiness, I need drive. I am messed up because I cannot unsee the things I’ve seen. I am messed up because I see the human being as what it is, a creature with immense potential for causing varying types and degrees of harm to others, and we are living in a time in which most people alive seem to be taking full advantage of that potential. Every single point of sadness is an easily identifiable and thoroughly definable outside point over which I don’t have much and/or immediate control. But I love life! I love living, I love doing things, creating, learning, and as a thespian at heart (groan all you want), there’s artistic catharsis to be had in defiantly persisting while wading through this crap, and so I have all the force I need to see myself through.
What I meant through “being miserable together” wasn’t “being depressed together,” I meant being broken together, basking in the true ugliness of things together, facing our individual sadness together. I will never be a happy-go-lucky person and am more than fine with that, because I understand why I’m not and wouldn’t have it any other way. I’d rather drown in the ugly truth than live a life of ignorant leisure, I’d rather be broken by knowing the world for what it is and staring it in the eyes incessantly.
To add, I’m not even looking for happiness in my relationships. I don’t need my partner to make me happy or complete me, because I can make myself happy (or content, rather), and I am more complete in myself than I’ve ever been. I’m deeply satisfied with who I’ve managed to become in spite of things. I need a real human being with a bit more dirt under their fingernails than usual, someone unhindered by the pretence of surface acceptability and likewise unwavering in their relationship with the truth.
This is why I obsessed over nuance in my original post and why I apologise for failing to adequately provide it, I think most people misunderstand where I’m at and mistake it for a pathological thing, when it’s actually just me being true to myself, which implies being open enough to the world around me, that I cannot but be affected by it when it clashes with my empathy and values. And there’s a fuckload of clashing nowadays, which is why I’m in turmoil. Beyond that, there’s nothing other than my profound passion for the grim and macabre, for the theatricality of ugliness. I don’t want to sound pretentious, I’m just aware of the fact that this detail alone makes me an outsider. (Edit:) to be clear, this does not mean I seek drama or suffering in relationships, aesthetics and getting punched in the face during an argument because you’ve caught her in a lie are two very different things. The grotesque I like doesn’t hurt anyone more than potentially offending their sensibilities.
I do want to confirm that I am and will continue to seek healthy growth, and am genuinely grateful that I’ve managed to actually understand what that growth means in my case.
