There’s always been people doubting science. Nothing new
“Science just doesn’t know if this trans stuff is safe, don’t Leftists know their biology? Men are men and women are women!” Is something my trans ass is tired of hearing.
People have started to believe that opinions are the same or better than facts. That’s also the reason why politics is fucked.
The internet is a very big reason for that. It gives everybody a platform to spread utter bullshit.
Like people thinking the earth is a sphere. Weirdos.
People have also gone from disagreeing with each other to outright despising the other party and all people who are associated. Social media has created an echo chamber that has divided us unfortunately.
Ironic that the Right is the movement associated with the phrase “Facts don’t care about your feelings.”
“Facts researched by the University of My Brown Balls”
What do you have against Adam Conover, a certified member of the reality-based community and someone who has spent much of his career fighting on the side of facts against myth and misinformation?
I was wondering the same. Simply seems like a right-wing meme relabeled. Although notice the cyclist and colored hairs.
The problem is that Adam Ruins Everything is guilty of spreading more misinformation than it solves. (The Video Games episode is particularly embarrassing)
It’s neat entertainment and it does expose some bullshit, but it aint perfect. And to its credit it does have a few “Times we were wrong” episodes
Edit: Don’t know why the crowd is stereotypes of Liberals though, they’re not the ones on the Science Denial train unless they’re the “Betraying Transpeople will win us elections!” type
No shit it’s not shaped like an eagle. It’s shaped like a velociraptor.
Yeah op you’re right, people who hate science are definitely liberals with dyed bright hair
</s>
Agree with your sarcasm, but Poe’s Law applies. Always close your sarcasm HTML tag.
lol not all people with dyed hair are lefties
It’s still the recognized Internet stereotype.
People just aren’t noticing that this is protection.
Just 99%
I always think it’s so weird when someone uses the
aryannaziblonde hair blue eye chad guy or whatever it’s called to show the “good old days” or whatever. Additionally in this case I find it curious that the images used for the folks who seem to represent the regressive anti-science crowd are a group of characters with more diverse looks. Care to explain your choices OP? @not_IO@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEdit: thank you for the correction!
Not disagreeing with you, but we really need to stop letting “Aryan” mean what the Nazis decided it should mean. Aryan is, and always has been, a term for the Indo-Iranian languages. As scientists, we need to be the first to take it back to its actual meaning.
Honestly, my opinion as someone of Indian descent is the only people that really care about “reclaiming aryan heritage” from nazis are hindutva “Brahmin piety” type people
I consider myself Indian, not Aryan
That’s just my opinion, I don’t claim to represent all indo Iranians but like honestly in my opinion the nazis can keep the aryan name
“Real” Aryans aren’t even worth being proud of anyways, the Aryans were primarily known for using chariot warfare to subjugate the Indian subcontinent and then spent centuries enforcing and enacting the horrific caste systems.
Nazis can keep the Aryan culture personally I don’t need it anyways
- my own opinions ofc
Ethno nationalism is bad, whether it’s nazi Aryanism or Hindutva Aryanism
Totally fair. As a student of ancient languages, I primarily think of it in terms of language development and archeology, so I can certainly see why its modern connotation would be spurned. I think that, since the term’s misuse came out of the bullshit archeology of Nazi Germany, it’s better to air it out for the bullshit it is.
Consider also that “Semitic” is a philological term for the languages of the varied peoples of the Arabian peninsula and the Levant, so for an Israeli politician to claim that Palestinians are “antisemitic” is hilariously stupid. There are a lot of uses of these old archeological terms and symbols that got corrupted when the Nazis first did their Nazi thing, and my hope is to disempower their rhetoric by contributing to the disempowerment of the bullshit they spawned.
I personally think it’s just hilarious that the term for “white, blonde, and blue-eyed” among racial purists literally refers to a heritage that virtually cannot be further from their supposed “ideal”. It is for this reason that I correct people, because it is just another case of Nazis and White Supremacists showing that not only do they know nothing, they actively look less intelligent with every word they spew. The more people who realize that the Nazis are wrong, the better. In the case of the thread OP to whom I replied, it seemed like an opportunity to pass on this tidbit, because their stance makes me think that they and I are like-minded in our opinion of Nazi idiocy.
Makes sense to me
Agreed, as an Indo-Aryan person that always made me feel uneasy
Thank you for pointing that out, I have changed it to be more accurate.
Science then: if you try to prove that the Earth orbits around the sun, we’ll have you tortured and killed
Science now: 2x2 is not 6, but go off Terry
To be fair: there are momebts when 2x2 =6 may not be an entirely unreasonable way of looking at things. (It would mean that 2=0, which is an assumtion that both can be made and is sometimes made)
Removed by mod
I mean at the time, religion and science were closely intertwined, with primarily religious scholars studying astronomy and astrology
The idea that science and dogma are entirely separate things is a great way to turn yourself into a Richard Dawkins. Everyone has some ideology or another that will influence any research they do.
Maybe I am in a different environment (particularly not being American), but the old scientists still exist and are still hard at work. In fact, all scientists I know (and I work in academia) care very little for misinformation on their day to day lives. They’ll make fun of it, but don’t have any more contact with them than anyone else. They still spend most of their time working on their actual projects. The only thing that changed is that now they’re bending over backwards to include AI in their grants to make sure they’re accepted, but having to include the latest buzzwords is nothing new.
Science communicators, on the other hand, yeah, those probably have their hands full with fixing misinformation.
all scientists I know (and I work in academia) care very little for misinformation on their day to day lives.
Well in the US, that misinformation “won” and is coming for scientists now. Their funding is no longer a given, especially diverging from orthodoxy. Self-censorship is becoming the norm.
It can happen elsewhere, too. Use us as a warning.
also, please send very well armed help. if you don’t liberate us, america will start invading soon. first it will probably be canada or greenland, but that shit won’t STOP at any point.
I bet they do still consume misinformation, just not in their fields. I know enough scientists that believe in great man theory or that a magic hand fixes the market to know that they’re out there.
It’s mostly the red hat cult that doesn’t trust science.
What do you have against redhat.com?
They shifted to a paid subscription model and fucked over any goodwill they had. Yeah they were major contributors to open source, but we gave them clemency because we didn’t think they’d position themselves to fuck us over so eagerly. Had we known, we wouldn’t have made so many downstream distros from them.
When was RHEL non-sub? I’m guessing you’re thinking of the code availability change, or maybe centos? Or are you literally thinking of the RH and not RHEL?
Yeah they were major contributors to open source
Still are.
Had we known, we wouldn’t have made so many downstream distros from them.
I remember rocky, alma, oracle, and Amazon. 2 of those are now upstream, 2 are still downstream (and only 1 wasn’t corpo backed).
Alternatively they might not have made that change if people weren’t literally repacking their product and trying to steal their market share by giving it away for free with cheaper enterprise support. Imagine telling that to a room of rich shareholders.
You can’t jump on an already successful FOSS product, make large changes to it under an extremely copy-left license free for all to use, and then turn around and claim that people are stealing your lunch.
In the world of business where everyone claims to have bootstrapped their products out of thin air? Sure, use that Looney tunes logic.
I agree with you, but we aren’t corpo assholes. And those changes were allowed under that extremely copy-left license.
Those changes were heartily welcome; no other company that I know of has believed in Linux so strongly and so early on than RedHat. But if they were doing it all for financial reasons, (as any company would, as there was definite money to be made in a Windows alternative for enterprise systems), then either they were blind to the idea that they would empower any future competitors who could fork off their contributions, or deaf to the notion of what FOSS ultimately was and sought to undermine/control it in the long-run.
I’m bitter about RedHat because I wonder now if the second option was the plan all along.
Not that red hat cult, the other one. 😂
This one? https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=red+hat+cult
I really don’t get it.
MAGA cult
I mean, everyone knows were on the back of a turtle, being held up by elephants
Nice try.
Everyone knows it’s turtles all the way down.
No. Everything is tuberculosis.
The turtle moves!
So funny, if atlas hear you will drop the land to the void
(… ya’ll, should we get a community? is there one already?)
There’s !discworld@lemmy.ml
But, being on .ml, not everyone has a guarantee of access, since it gets defederated from a few instances. There’s a couple of others, but they’re really not active at all.
I’d suggest literature.cafe, if anyone was to start a new one. Kinda their focus
deleted by creator
COVID was somehow the visceral turning point. Variations on visitor restrictions in hospitals still exist since then due to the extraordinary and amazing displays of bad behavior from that time.
People could always behave badly. Direct care staff, as one example, have been wearing panic buttons linked directly to security and calling a violence code over the announcement system, since around 2015 on the medical side of things.
But COVID was a severe escalation point. Families screaming in hallways that the diagnoses was “fake news” or part of the hospitals “corporate conspiracy” escalating to the point of pulling medical equipment off their loved ones, who could not breathe without that medical equipment.
Behaviors that could potentially kill people wrapped up in an inexorable belief that science was lying. No trust of medical personnel who are there to help whatever the system around them contrives to do with care.
While the behaviors are not like COVID times any more, there’s a residual skepticism of, well, everything since that time. Sadly, one that is preyed upon by politics to keep us fighting one another instead of punching up.
Forgive me, maybe “punching up” is now a ban-worthy turn of phrase.
I’m in a very conservative state and until recently I worked in hospitals around the country. You would not believe the amount of times I’ve heard covid conspiracy shit from actual healthcare workers. The most common one is that it’s just the flu, but when anyone died for any reason at the time they put down covid as cause of death. Why would anyone do this? I guess it doesn’t have to make sense. Just to hazard a guess I’d say more than half of the people in my state believe some form of covid conspiracy or disinformation.
I used to live in Seattle and while I didn’t work in the medical field… I knew quite a lot of nurses and other, fairly entry level kinds of medical workers.
Most of these people, again, in Seattle, a supposed bastion of lefties… were vaccine skeptics or outright antivax, when COVID happened.
A lot of these people came from the more conservative areas outside Seattle, and then worked in Seattle because it was the only area hiring… but yeah, my anecdotal experience was/is that many medical staff themselves succumbed to vaccine conspiracies, and would freely admit and bitch about masking and vaccines when off the job.
my anecdotal experience was/is that many medical staff themselves succumbed to vaccine conspiracies, and would freely admit and bitch about masking and vaccines when off the job.
Not even just off the job. I worked at a surgery center during the first few years of COVID, and I still distinctly remember at least one surgeon walking around the clinical areas with a mask that read “this mask does nothing”. And I’m pretty sure he was seeing patients wearing that too.
I am still baffled by that, because this fucking window licker had to have taken microbiology, and literally wore a mask every goddamned times they did the thing they trained for.
I’d be discussing declining the procedure based on that. I don’t know if I’d pull the trigger, based on a number of things: how likely can I get the procedure done elsewhere or by a different surgeon, how badly and quickly do I need the procedure, insurance issues. But I’d certainly try to talk to hospital staff about it.
On the other hand, I’ve heard Herman Cain was an idiot savant. So just because they can’t make change without an automatic register doesn’t mean they can’t do surgery.
I have heard of and witnessed an incredible amount of cognitive dissonance, horizontal and other ableism, anti-science, anti-masking, anti-vaccine and anti-health behavior and misinformation in my “thank god we live here” blue state, most often by folks who are less marginalized and otherwise less effected by the problems I listed above (but not always) and I don’t necessarily blame these people for being overwhelmed and confused because they’ve been intentionally captured in a disinfo bubble that is the result of being the target of concerted efforts by multiple actors at up to and including the state level to keep them that way for their own purposes, although I do hold them individually responsible for harm they are directly causing as a result, or partially responsible for harm they help to perpetuate that is done by systems or groups which can be massive. The work to undo the programming/socializing needs to start asap on an individual level or if we ever have the chance to make something new it will end up having the same problems. Deconstruction of harmful behaviors and thoughts is necessary, with professionals or loved ones or on ones own, whatever the case, the point is to stop doing the dirty work for corporations and billionaires and anyone else who benefits from these hierarchies by reinforcing the values they want us to have such as obedience to authority and individualism.
This is even more of a specific personal anecdote, but here goes:
My brother is a self described tankie.
Used to live with him.
His entire personality could be described as constantly having a nervous breakdown, and barely masking this with a thin veneer of absurd overconfidence and unchallengable moral superiority.
Just a bubbling cauldron of insecurity.
He spent tons of time following the progression of COVID, and was well informed.
He spent months keeping up with all the updates on vaccine types and availability and different kinds of masks, talking about it all the time.
… Then, after about 9 months of constantly being either having or being on the verge of a nervous breakdown… he managed to convince himself that it would be a great idea to fly to an in person work related convention, in Vegas, during the height of a COVID wave.
He did so, came back with COVID, got me sick, and I lost 2 weeks of work from it.
I was paying more than half the rent, and his finances were way more fucked than he let on, and then proceeded to freak out about that.
… He… knew that even if everyone is wearing masks, it doesn’t work as well when you’re in an enclosed area with a lot of people, and that a convention should be avoided at all costs to minimize exposure risk.
We’d talked about these scenarios in the months prior, in detail.
He knew that I had a bunch of comorbidities at the time for having a way worse time with COVID. Overweight, only recently stopped smoking cigarettes, other chronic health problems.
But nope, it was somehow my fault for causing him stress by … assuming I didn’t have vacation/sick time I could use, assuming I wouldn’t be able to pay my share of the rent…
Not his fault for nearly fucking killing me via COVID, when he knew that was a fairly likely result of his own actions.
… And all of that is even more insane in the context of our shared history, which includes 3 instances where I dropped everything, abandoned commitments to other friends or family, spent a lot of my own money… to save him from being homeless and/or save his life from ODing or carrying through with a very credible suicide attempt.
… I got him the job that he went to the convention for… I got him that job a decade earlier when he was homeless, connected him to some of my friends who worked at the same place and convinced them to convince the owner to pity hire him.
He just stayed there and worked his way up the ranks of a small family business.
Sorry, I’m just having a therapy session for myself at this point, but… jesus fuck, I am so glad I am far away from him.
Forgive me, maybe “punching up” is now a ban-worthy turn of phrase.
This isn’t reddit, you can say whatever you want
Luigi did nothing wrong and neither did the guy who actually fired the gun
The difference is Galileo produced a highly successful theory with more explanatory power than its predecessor, while people who don’t trust “The Science” nowadays spent exactly 2 seconds thinking about it before saying “nuh uh”.
It’s an awkward example to pick. Human genome research was so controversial someone made an award-winning dystopian sci-fi movie to criticise it.
We did collectively get Maya Hawke out of that deal, though.
Incidentally, that was written by the same guy who made dystopian fiction about reality TV and corporate-sponsored vtubers before either thing existed. Andrew Niccol turned out to be amazing at spotting upcoming trends, terrible at identifying how exactly they would ruin things.
It took me way too long and finally zooming in to realize the first dude didn’t strap knives to his face…
