• lmuel@sopuli.xyzEnglish
    12·
    2 days ago

    Ladybird is certainly interesting to watch, it’s improving quite quickly.

    I know people on here hate it because of one (admittedly not at all nice) gender issue in the codes comments but like… seriously?

    • HStone32@lemmy.world
      3·
      2 days ago

      guilty until proven innocent, for it is better that the innocent are condemed than for a guilty man go free. And should a trial be warranted, it shall be conducted not by jury, but by a tribunal of like-minded individuals.

      they’re live the perfect anti-libral.

    • gon [he]@lemm.eeEnglish
      2·
      2 days ago

      I know people on here hate it because of one (admittedly not at all nice) gender issue in the codes comments but like… seriously?

      I actually recently had a discussion about this very issue and came to see it as a case of poor communication, rather than anything mean-spirited on the devs’ part.

    • rtxn@lemmy.worldM
      29·
      3 days ago

      People are losing their shit, calling for boycotts, and throwing around accusations of transphobia over comments in the source code and a single line of documentation? Seriously? And brigading the developer three years after the fact‽ I was ready to write off Ladybird, but damn, this was taken way out of proportion.

      I’m all in for equal treatment, but people need to get a perspective. Such an extreme reaction will ultimately hurt the cause they’re trying to advocate for. Getting bent out of shape and publicly brigading something for every perceived slight, every time someone’s feelings are hurt, or can’t get their way, will get them – and the demographic or movement they represent – labelled as undesirable.

      • mke@programming.dev
        1·
        16 hours ago

        A single line of documentation? How about looking into some context? Hurt feelings my ass, Andreas isn’t some innocent, silly little guy who never does anything questionable.

        And which cause exactly are you talking about? Because I don’t know about you, but I’ll stand for real, marginalized people over lines of code of a screen any day.

      • りん〜@sopuli.xyzEnglish
        15·
        3 days ago

        This is why I hate the FOSS community. Everyone freaks out and cries wolf the second a platform doesn’t share their political opinion, even if it’s completely irrelevant to privacy or FOSS.

        • coldsideofyourpillow@lemmy.cafeEnglish
          13·
          2 days ago

          Personally, I’d want my software to value basic human decency, no matter how good the code is. If the developer lashes out at an inclusive change in a single line of documentation, I’m not using that browser even if it could solve my taxes.

          This is just my take though, and if you want to use the browser, then go for it.

            • coldsideofyourpillow@lemmy.cafeEnglish
              3·
              2 days ago

              I’m not sure I understood; a line for what?

              I’ll try to answer based on what I think you meant: if there is a software with a person with undesirable views in control of it, I’d try to boycott that software if feasible.

        • kekmacska@lemmy.zipEnglish
          8·
          2 days ago

          Foss certainly aligns better with left-wing philosophies, i don’t think far-right need to be widely accepted in these communities

          • りん〜@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            1·
            2 days ago

            Calling someone far-right for not wanting to implement a useless pronouns feature is a bit wild.

            • kekmacska@lemmy.zipEnglish
              3·
              2 days ago

              Not necessarily far right, but that implies they might be far right. i think if someone is cis female, her, if cis male then he, if other, they (unless something else is explicitly stated). I don’t think it really hurts anyone to call them the way they wish, but rightists usually do

          • Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
            1·
            2 days ago

            let me provide you an analogy to what you’re saying.

            “The US appeals to right wing philosophies so the left doesn’t need to be accepted”

            what do you think?

            • kekmacska@lemmy.zipEnglish
              1·
              2 days ago

              Just like what a rightist would say. Also 2 “people” downvoting my comment is wild

        • HStone32@lemmy.world
          9·
          2 days ago

          I don’t think performative politics is a FOSS community problem. It’s more of an whole Internet problem.

        • coldsideofyourpillow@lemmy.cafeEnglish
          2·
          2 days ago

          This is not about “the FOSS community”. It doesn’t matter if you developed closed-source or open-source, doesn’t matter if you license your software with AGPL or NULA, if you make a comment that’s seemingly transphobic/misogynistic, people WILL freak out.

          The reason you might see this occur more frequently in open-source spaces could be sue to the fact that issue trackers and PRs provide much less filtered responses than corporate social media accounts and blogs.

          • りん〜@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            4·
            2 days ago

            Obviously the FOSS community has a heavy left wing bias. I personally haven’t heard anything about Proton or Ladybird being controversial outside of Lemmy and Reddit. Clearly It’s not just about transphobia and sexism (which I think is an overreaction). A lot of people in the FOSS community left Proton just because of one positive tweet about Trump (from an Asian immigrant living in Switzerland). I think it’s really unhealthy for the FOSS community to jump ship the second a platform doesn’t share their political opinions.

      • erotadorEnglish
        12·
        3 days ago

        not sure how exactly I’m losing my shit? I posted a single link, and let people decide for themselves, if your fine with supporting sexist people then nobody is stopping you.

        and personally I don’t care if you think I’m hurting my cause, people who get this butthurt over some simple words and basic respect, simply are not the kind of people who I want to be around anyways.

        • rtxn@lemmy.worldM
          12·
          2 days ago

          I worded that poorly. The “you” was plural (I want the singular “thou” back) and meant to refer to the people who are losing their shit, not any one individual.

          (edit) I also just want to point out that accusing me of being a sexist sympathizer and two hours later posting this shit is real funny.

        • kekmacska@lemmy.zipEnglish
          2·
          2 days ago

          I dont really want to ruin your mood but when hundreds of people are working on a project, there will be always individuals that are not so nice and go personal on others

          • coldsideofyourpillow@lemmy.cafeEnglish
            2·
            18 hours ago

            Andrew is not just “any individual”. He’s one of the lead developers of Ladybird, and the co-founder of the Ladybird 501©(3) nonprofit.

      • coldsideofyourpillow@lemmy.cafeEnglish
        6·
        2 days ago

        I’ve checked out the PR, and it does look bad. But I’d like to see a justification. The comment seems blatantly transphobic/misogynistic. Seems like you’re saying that my understanding is extreme. How could yours be refuted?

        Brigading was clearly not justified, but as per my apparently extreme opinions, so isn’t the original reply?

      • coldsideofyourpillow@lemmy.cafeEnglish
        3·
        2 days ago

        Brigading was definitely not a justified act. That was wrong and extreme, and shouldn’t have been done. However, this still doesn’t excuse the closing reply to the PR.

        People are losing their shit … over comments in the source code and a single line of documentation?

        This is quite ironic, considering the first person in the PR seems to be the person who closed the issue.

        • Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip
          12·
          3 days ago

          Like the comment I replied to. I understand calling people out but that is such an irrelevant topic to the discussion.

          It’s not always sunshine and rainbows but I don’t see the need to whine about every little thing.

          Also note that I’m being fair here. Majority people who are not into foss simply avoid it because of how often they see people bitching about said foss products. It’s just not a good look.

          • Turret3857@infosec.pubEnglish
            8·
            3 days ago

            I mean I understand why you feel that way but if someone were to refer to me as a woman, as a cis guy I would take it as a sign of disrespect, so I feel more obliged to take the side of the people who are complaining. I feel it is somewhat relevant considering one of the projects mentioned is developed by the people in the link.

    • fl42v@lemmy.ml
      17·
      3 days ago

      Lmao, a weird choice of a hill to die on. Although, given I’ve seen ppl refer to a user account as “he” exactly 0 times before that, I suspect the dev may speak smth like French natively, where everything is either male or female.

      That said, i’d rather use “it” instead of “they”, given an account (and anon one at that) is not a person.

      • erotadorEnglish
        18·
        3 days ago

        I’m fairly certain the main dev is swedish

        • fl42v@lemmy.ml
          7·
          3 days ago

          Huh, checked out their noun genders, and those are quite interesting: 2 genders, but common and neuter instead of masculine and feminine. So out goes that theory

          • Petter1@lemm.ee
            1·
            3 days ago

            Imagine explaining gendering to a person used to ise a language where it isn’t existing 🤔 of course, it seems unnecessary for that person

            Or have I understood that wrong?

            • kekmacska@lemmy.zipEnglish
              5·
              2 days ago

              Hungarian language for example is completly genderless. 2 pronouns are used: ő (person, more intelligent animals), ez/az (depending on the first letter) (objects, less intelligent animals)

            • fl42v@lemmy.ml
              2·
              19 hours ago

              Not exactly. In English, stuff that’s not a person is of neutral gender, i.e. just “it” (unless the speaker has an affection towards it, then it’s usually a “she”). In other languages stuff also has “genders”, like “la chambre” (the French* for “a room”) is a “she”.

              So, my initial guess was that the dev natively speaks some language, where a user is a “he”, and ppl don’t have a concept of a neutral gender. But in case of Swedish there are 2 variants of “it” for things [edit: there’s “it” and “they”], so it seems incorrect.

              * I’m using French instead of, for example, Russian here due to it not having a neutral gender, while Russian has “it” and something akin to “they” (like “задира”, the Russian for a bully). Although, I may be wrong here, since I’ve started learning French quite recently, and may’ve missed smth.

    • Hellfire103@lemmy.caOPEnglish
      77·
      3 days ago

      Going from lawful to chaotic, good to evil, we have:

      • Gecko (Firefox, Seamonkey, and derivatives)
      • Servo
      • Libweb (Ladybird)
      • Links2 (as well as ELinks and other forks)
      • WebKit (used in a lot of stuff, namely Safari and GNOME Web)
      • Goanna (Pale Moon and Basilisk)
      • QtWebEngine (Konqueror, Falkon, and qutebrowser)
      • Blink (Chromium, Brave, and derivatives)
      • Trident (Internet Explorer, old versions of Maxthon, old versions of Avant, and any homemade browser created with Visual Studio).
      • drosophilaEnglish
        4·
        2 days ago

        Where does Dillo fit into this?

        Its got cookies disabled by default, no support for JavaScript, and only partial support for CSS. Just as god intended.

        • Hellfire103@lemmy.caOPEnglish
          1·
          2 days ago

          Same box as Links, I think; or maybe the same box as Servo or Ladybird would fit better…

      • 2xsaiko@discuss.tchncs.de
        4·
        3 days ago

        Huh, I didn’t know MSHTML as used in IE was also called Trident. I thought Trident was specifically early Edge before they switched to Blink.

    • Gormadt
      9·
      3 days ago

      Also a quick cliff notes on what each is would be greatly appreciated

      I only recognize the Chromium icon…

      • jqubed@lemmy.world
        14·
        3 days ago

        These are browser engines, or at least software for rendering HTML but not necessarily the actual browser. I don’t know them all, but top left, Gecko, is the engine for Mozilla, center is Web Kit for Safari, bottom center is Chromium for Chrome, Brave, Edge, etc., and bottom right is Trident, the old engine for Microsoft Internet Explorer.

        • amino
          6·
          3 days ago

          what’s the difference between the engine and the browser itself? is it similar to the Linux kernel vs the Debian user space?

          • Ephera@lemmy.mlEnglish
            6·
            3 days ago

            The engine makes it so HTML, CSS, JavaScript etc. are downloaded and turned into pixels you can look at. The browser embeds an engine for that purpose, but then also has a URL bar, tabs, bookmarks, a history feature and so on.

        • Engywuck@lemm.ee
          1·
          3 days ago

          These are browser engines, or at least software for rendering HTML but not necessarily the actual browser.

          That’s why this post makes no sense. There’s no “evil” rendering engine. They should be judged by technical parameters.

  • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
    17·
    3 days ago

    I’m not sure I have a lot of faith in Servo but we are in need of anything better than Gecko. Ladybird is the new one on the block and we will see if it goes anywhere. I like that Ladybird it’s own web browser.

    • shortrounddev@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      2 days ago

      Ladybird seems almost singularly focused on macOS development. They say that they intend to incrementally move from C++ to Swift

      • AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.worldEnglish
        1·
        1 day ago

        Swift is decent, one of the biggest .net (c#) people gave a talk at godotcon about whay he likes it better than c#

        It works cross platform, it’s just developed by apple

    • Mwa@lemm.eeEnglish
      5·
      3 days ago

      Same cause nowadays you have to rely on a for profit company for your browser engine.

        • Mwa@lemm.eeEnglish
          2·
          2 days ago

          true, if it was a company like suse,redhat who was for-profit and had a good browser engine then sure if its like google then maybe but for-profit companies are known to be problematic.

          • Possibly linux@lemmy.zipEnglish
            2·
            2 days ago

            I think the key thing is to have checks and balances and or incentives so that a browser doesn’t become just a tool to sell stuff. For instance, I hear the Mullvad browser is pretty good. It isn’t independent for obvious reasons but the idea still applies.

          • acockworkorange@mander.xyz
            1·
            2 days ago

            SuSE is problematic? As far as I know they released their system administration tools as open source without ever needing to, didn’t they? They’re for profit but seem to drive their profits on services rather selling software, as a good open source denizen. What am I missing?

            • Mwa@lemm.eeEnglish
              1·
              2 days ago

              I mean I was using suse as a example not saying they problematic like redhat (which had some controversy in the past ik)